Original Posted By: "jimd"
We should have a very good radio show this week at www.flighttimeradio.com.We have a good friend of ours on who is a banner tow company owner,instructor specializing in tailwheel training, and and master CFI. He isalways entertaining and should be a lot of fun. We also have our retired airtraffic controller from our first show helping to guest host and we willhave a DAR giving us the latest news on LSA conversions. This show will beto hours again this week and starts at 9:00 AM eastern time.We will also have some free giveaways for callers starting this week.We have had about 2,000 new web site hits since AOPA gave us a story intheir EPilot email so we should have a bunch of listeners and people callingin this week.Brian Krautwww.flighttimeradio.com________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Original Posted By: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP"
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?Never heard of seat belt degrading, so now we need to replace our seat belts everytwo years along with our batteries?RickOn Jan 27, 2008 9:17 AM, jimd > wrote:Hi,Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car seatbelts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the expirationdate was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat belts for sprintcars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that said that the beltslose a great deal of strength in there first year, and enough that by thesecond or third year that they were not strong enough to work adequately fora crash.Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first thoughtwas that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost more but shouldbe stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching the net and ranacross some safety articles saying that most light plane wrecks (80-90%) aresurvivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20gforces are properly installed and worn.My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the steel tubeframe for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots seat forbelts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger seat has twomount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit ofbeefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard anythingabout the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk about? PersonallyI am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86 Porsche 944 with22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes you think.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 654#160654 -- Rick HollandObjectAge Ltd.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:33:07 -0800 (PST)
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?Never heard of seat belt degrading, so now we need to replace our seat belts everytwo years along with our batteries?RickOn Jan 27, 2008 9:17 AM, jimd > wrote:Hi,Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car seatbelts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the expirationdate was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat belts for sprintcars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that said that the beltslose a great deal of strength in there first year, and enough that by thesecond or third year that they were not strong enough to work adequately fora crash.Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first thoughtwas that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost more but shouldbe stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching the net and ranacross some safety articles saying that most light plane wrecks (80-90%) aresurvivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20gforces are properly installed and worn.My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the steel tubeframe for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots seat forbelts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger seat has twomount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit ofbeefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard anythingabout the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk about? PersonallyI am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86 Porsche 944 with22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes you think.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 654#160654 -- Rick HollandObjectAge Ltd.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:33:07 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Original Posted By: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts? Never heard of seat belt degrading, so now we need to replace our seat belts every two years along with our batteries? Rick On Jan 27, 2008 9:17 AM, jimd > > wrote: > > Hi, Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car seat belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the expiration date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat belts for sprint cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that said that the belts lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and enough that by the second or third year that they were not strong enough to work adequately for a crash. Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first thought was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost more but should be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching the net and ran across some safety articles saying that most light plane wrecks (80-90%) are survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20g forces are properly installed and worn. My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the steel tube frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots seat for belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger seat has two mount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders. Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit of beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints. What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard anything about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk about? Personally I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86 Porsche 944 with 22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes you think. Jim Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 654#160654 > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd.http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... __________
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts? Never heard of seat belt degrading, so now we need to replace our seat belts every two years along with our batteries? Rick On Jan 27, 2008 9:17 AM, jimd > > wrote: > > Hi, Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car seat belts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the expiration date was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat belts for sprint cars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that said that the belts lose a great deal of strength in there first year, and enough that by the second or third year that they were not strong enough to work adequately for a crash. Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first thought was that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost more but should be stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching the net and ran across some safety articles saying that most light plane wrecks (80-90%) are survivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20g forces are properly installed and worn. My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the steel tube frame for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots seat for belts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger seat has two mount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders. Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit of beefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints. What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard anything about the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk about? Personally I am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86 Porsche 944 with 22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes you think. Jim Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 654#160654 > -- Rick Holland ObjectAge Ltd.http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... __________
Original Posted By: "Rick Holland"
Hi,Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car seatbelts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the expirationdate was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat belts for sprintcars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that said that the beltslose a great deal of strength in there first year, and enough that by thesecond or third year that they were not strong enough to work adequately fora crash.Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first thoughtwas that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost more but shouldbe stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching the net and ranacross some safety articles saying that most light plane wrecks (80-90%) aresurvivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20gforces are properly installed and worn.My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the steel tubeframe for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots seat forbelts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger seat has twomount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit ofbeefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard anythingabout the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk about? PersonallyI am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86 Porsche 944 with22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes you think.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:58:35 -0700
Hi,Just had an interesting experience, was bidding on a 5pt set of sprint car seatbelts (aircraft style) on eBay and someone asked the seller what the expirationdate was, and he said 2005. That led me to delve in to why seat belts for sprintcars would have an expiration date. There was a faq that said that the beltslose a great deal of strength in there first year, and enough that by thesecond or third year that they were not strong enough to work adequately fora crash.Think I did one of those dog head tilt "say what?" things. Anyway first thoughtwas that instead of a used ones, I would get new ones, which cost more but shouldbe stronger. How strong should they be? Did some searching the net and ranacross some safety articles saying that most light plane wrecks (80-90%) aresurvivable if proper seat belt/restraints with the ability to handle around 20gforces are properly installed and worn.My GN-1 biplane project has a very strong cable that is anchored to the steel tubeframe for the shoulder belts, and two mount points on the pilots seat forbelts (that are anchored to the steel tube frame). The passenger seat has twomount points for belts, but nothing for the shoulders.Saw that the PFA (Brittish equivelent of FAA I think?) required quite a bit ofbeefing up of the mountings for pietenpol's seat belt/restraints.What kind of belts/mountings are you guys using on your planes? Heard anythingabout the strength and degradation issues the car racing folks talk about? PersonallyI am wondering about car seat belts.. have an old 86 Porsche 944 with22yr old belts, and my newest car has 3 yr old ones. Makes you think.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 09:58:35 -0700
Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Original Posted By: "Rick Holland"
Fyi I had come across that a few years back. I asked a buddy about it he's intobuilding drag race cars. He told me there in nothing wrong with the belts. Justanother way for the seatbelt companies to make more. I doubt you can get on a comercial jet that just had all its passenger belts replaceddue to the 2 year age. My car is 10 years old and I have to change thebelts. I haven't even gotten a recall or service notice on that. If I can snag 2 sets alike in color and style I am gonna install them in my Piet.JohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
Fyi I had come across that a few years back. I asked a buddy about it he's intobuilding drag race cars. He told me there in nothing wrong with the belts. Justanother way for the seatbelt companies to make more. I doubt you can get on a comercial jet that just had all its passenger belts replaceddue to the 2 year age. My car is 10 years old and I have to change thebelts. I haven't even gotten a recall or service notice on that. If I can snag 2 sets alike in color and style I am gonna install them in my Piet.JohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Original Posted By: AmsafetyC(at)aol.com
Yes you will get on an airliner that has had its belts changed!! Take a look on EBAY at all of the aircraft seat belt sets for sale, these were taken off of airliners. The 121 regs require the belts to be changed periodically. TSOd seatbelts have a strength requirement that can be looked up easily online, something like 2500 lbs tensile strength. Most TSO tags have a date on them, usually the date of manufacture but I suppose an expiration date may be on some. The tag also usually has the strength requirement on it.For a homebuilt, like ours, we can do pretty much whatever we want, but we should stay within the strength limits. Someone on here bought belts and shortened them and had a show shop re-sew the ends. That is great, but keep in mind that companies that make seat belts use a needle with a rounded end. A sharp needle, I am told, tears the fibers of the belt and weakens it. You should at least pull test it to the limit once you have had it altered. Call Jack Hooker (great-grandson of General Hooker and source of the term "Hooker", who makes Hooker harnesses for aircraft and race cars) sometime, he will be happy to tell you anything you need to know.Gene ----- Original Message -----
Yes you will get on an airliner that has had its belts changed!! Take a look on EBAY at all of the aircraft seat belt sets for sale, these were taken off of airliners. The 121 regs require the belts to be changed periodically. TSOd seatbelts have a strength requirement that can be looked up easily online, something like 2500 lbs tensile strength. Most TSO tags have a date on them, usually the date of manufacture but I suppose an expiration date may be on some. The tag also usually has the strength requirement on it.For a homebuilt, like ours, we can do pretty much whatever we want, but we should stay within the strength limits. Someone on here bought belts and shortened them and had a show shop re-sew the ends. That is great, but keep in mind that companies that make seat belts use a needle with a rounded end. A sharp needle, I am told, tears the fibers of the belt and weakens it. You should at least pull test it to the limit once you have had it altered. Call Jack Hooker (great-grandson of General Hooker and source of the term "Hooker", who makes Hooker harnesses for aircraft and race cars) sometime, he will be happy to tell you anything you need to know.Gene ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Original Posted By: "Scott Schreiber"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?Wonder if all this had any bearing on the death of Dale Earnhart? Personally, I'm not sure how strong I would want the belts to be...Let's say thehuman body can withstand 20G's. Lets also say the belts are good to 22G's. Do you take your chances bouncing out of the plane across a runway, or risk being pulled apart by the belts? Just thinking out loud...Boyce**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exer ... __________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?Wonder if all this had any bearing on the death of Dale Earnhart? Personally, I'm not sure how strong I would want the belts to be...Let's say thehuman body can withstand 20G's. Lets also say the belts are good to 22G's. Do you take your chances bouncing out of the plane across a runway, or risk being pulled apart by the belts? Just thinking out loud...Boyce**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exer ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Original Posted By: "jimd"
This got me thinking, I called a firefighter friend of mine who has pulled allot of people from allot of wrecks. His comment was that the only recurring failure he has seen over the years is the failure to wear them. _Scott----- Original Message -----
This got me thinking, I called a firefighter friend of mine who has pulled allot of people from allot of wrecks. His comment was that the only recurring failure he has seen over the years is the failure to wear them. _Scott----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I seem to remember seeing something somewhere about aircraft seat belts inEurope having to replaced by a certian expiration date, but not in the U.S.Don't remember where I saw that.Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com-----Original Message-----
I seem to remember seeing something somewhere about aircraft seat belts inEurope having to replaced by a certian expiration date, but not in the U.S.Don't remember where I saw that.Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Original Posted By: James Dallas
Pietenpol-List: Seat belts?
Original Posted By: "Richard Schreiber"
JimD wrote->the human body will stretch the belt 3 inches.If any belt in 41CC stretches 3 inches, I don't want to be in it!!! And if I amin it, I don't think I'll have much of an opinion about it afterwards...Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
JimD wrote->the human body will stretch the belt 3 inches.If any belt in 41CC stretches 3 inches, I don't want to be in it!!! And if I amin it, I don't think I'll have much of an opinion about it afterwards...Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________