Original Posted By: Christian Bobka
Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Re: Pietenpol-List: GPS/Handheld
Original Posted By: "Ignitor"
Hey all;Just wanted to add my pennies worth. I also have the JPH-520. Never reallytried the nav function, but the com worked ok with just the little antenna.I flew my Waco from Albany, NY to Phoenix, AZ with just the JPH for the comas there were no radios or nav's installed. I've since added an externalantenna but have not tried it out yet. Before I left, I bought the Anywheremap software and gps system from Anywheremap.com and a Casio E-125 PDA. Igotta say, it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, as we found that thecompass was off by about 30 degrees and the altimeter by about 300 feet (badwhen crossing the Continental Divide at 10,000 feet on a 98 degree day). Notonly that, but each night we looked at the WAC's, Sectionals and weatherforecasts and planned our flight, then very quickly entered the flight planinto the anywhere map. They have a great system and a really good discussionboard. May not be the right thing for a Piet, but I'll tell ya, it'll bealong when I go flying any type of cross country outside of AZ. Here, youcan see from one end of the state to the other at 7000 feet, and thenthere's always that big ditch with a real river running through it up northto take a bearing from.Chris HouseSmilin' at the thought of looking down, lookin' at the sectional, THENlookin' at the PDA, then lookin' down and saying to my brother "Yep, that'sthe Mississippi fer sure!" then goin' "that was stupid". Too long in thedesert sun, for sure.________________________________________________________________________________
Hey all;Just wanted to add my pennies worth. I also have the JPH-520. Never reallytried the nav function, but the com worked ok with just the little antenna.I flew my Waco from Albany, NY to Phoenix, AZ with just the JPH for the comas there were no radios or nav's installed. I've since added an externalantenna but have not tried it out yet. Before I left, I bought the Anywheremap software and gps system from Anywheremap.com and a Casio E-125 PDA. Igotta say, it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, as we found that thecompass was off by about 30 degrees and the altimeter by about 300 feet (badwhen crossing the Continental Divide at 10,000 feet on a 98 degree day). Notonly that, but each night we looked at the WAC's, Sectionals and weatherforecasts and planned our flight, then very quickly entered the flight planinto the anywhere map. They have a great system and a really good discussionboard. May not be the right thing for a Piet, but I'll tell ya, it'll bealong when I go flying any type of cross country outside of AZ. Here, youcan see from one end of the state to the other at 7000 feet, and thenthere's always that big ditch with a real river running through it up northto take a bearing from.Chris HouseSmilin' at the thought of looking down, lookin' at the sectional, THENlookin' at the PDA, then lookin' down and saying to my brother "Yep, that'sthe Mississippi fer sure!" then goin' "that was stupid". Too long in thedesert sun, for sure.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: Tom & Michelle Brant
Tom:I bought my spruce from Jean Peters in Canada. I've heard, I believe on thisboard, that he has since retired, which is unfortunate, because he wasabsolutely wonderful to work with. He called me the day he received my checkand eight days later, I got all of my spruce, cut to approximate length,t-stock milled, packaged, and all pieces wrapped and labeled per the planes,air freighted to Phoenix for 1649.00 total. And the wood is absolutelybeautiful. He only does the three piece wing though, and the fuselagelongerons are cut for the lengthened design. I think someone else was takingover his company. Do not trust Aircraft Spruce for their Piet wood kit.Although I buy lots of stuff from them and they are generally good foreverything, they are WAY out in left field on the Piet wood stuff. I wentround after round with them trying to get everything straight on the kit andcould not. I did buy all of my plywood from them, though and they have beenreally good for that. I think they are just working from screwed upmeasurements. If you buy your wood from them, be VERY clear on your specs.Chris HouseStill Smilin'----- Original Message -----
Tom:I bought my spruce from Jean Peters in Canada. I've heard, I believe on thisboard, that he has since retired, which is unfortunate, because he wasabsolutely wonderful to work with. He called me the day he received my checkand eight days later, I got all of my spruce, cut to approximate length,t-stock milled, packaged, and all pieces wrapped and labeled per the planes,air freighted to Phoenix for 1649.00 total. And the wood is absolutelybeautiful. He only does the three piece wing though, and the fuselagelongerons are cut for the lengthened design. I think someone else was takingover his company. Do not trust Aircraft Spruce for their Piet wood kit.Although I buy lots of stuff from them and they are generally good foreverything, they are WAY out in left field on the Piet wood stuff. I wentround after round with them trying to get everything straight on the kit andcould not. I did buy all of my plywood from them, though and they have beenreally good for that. I think they are just working from screwed upmeasurements. If you buy your wood from them, be VERY clear on your specs.Chris HouseStill Smilin'----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: Dmott9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpruceIn a message dated 6/28/01 9:34:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tmbrant(at)uswest.net writes:> I am a new guy here and have had the pleasure of meeting with Greg> Cardinal and Dale Johnson and checking out their Piet project. I have> now purchased the plans, and layed out my fuselage on my workbench. I> am looking for help in finding the best prices on Spruce. Aircraft> Spruce and Wicks are about the same and they seam kinda high. Is there> any other place to get this stuff. I read somewhere that Mckormick> lumber in Madison Wisconsin has stock of it on hand. I've emailed them> for a quote but got no response. Any help would be greatly appreciated> as I am itching to get going on the project.> > Tom Brant, MPLS> > > Tom,I buy nearly all my spruce or fir from Home Depot by hand selecting 2X4's every time I visit. I can always find a clear board in the stack or one that has enough clear wood in it for a longeron or two leaving the shorter pieces for struts and braces. I then scarf my longerons together 15 to 1. I ''ve done five airplanes this way. They also have ash. Also, there is some very good 1/8" and 1/4" plywood available from another wood store here which also works very well. Caution on the plywood however, I have a seen in the past other brands of this size plywood which delaminates in water, but the material I am using now does not come apart. I don't buy any actual graded aicraft wood so my airplanes don't cost very much wood wise. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpruceIn a message dated 6/28/01 9:34:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, tmbrant(at)uswest.net writes:> I am a new guy here and have had the pleasure of meeting with Greg> Cardinal and Dale Johnson and checking out their Piet project. I have> now purchased the plans, and layed out my fuselage on my workbench. I> am looking for help in finding the best prices on Spruce. Aircraft> Spruce and Wicks are about the same and they seam kinda high. Is there> any other place to get this stuff. I read somewhere that Mckormick> lumber in Madison Wisconsin has stock of it on hand. I've emailed them> for a quote but got no response. Any help would be greatly appreciated> as I am itching to get going on the project.> > Tom Brant, MPLS> > > Tom,I buy nearly all my spruce or fir from Home Depot by hand selecting 2X4's every time I visit. I can always find a clear board in the stack or one that has enough clear wood in it for a longeron or two leaving the shorter pieces for struts and braces. I then scarf my longerons together 15 to 1. I ''ve done five airplanes this way. They also have ash. Also, there is some very good 1/8" and 1/4" plywood available from another wood store here which also works very well. Caution on the plywood however, I have a seen in the past other brands of this size plywood which delaminates in water, but the material I am using now does not come apart. I don't buy any actual graded aicraft wood so my airplanes don't cost very much wood wise. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: "Tom & Michelle Brant"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpruceWould like some clarification on the AS&S Would it help to go there in person with plans in hand?What do you mean "left field on the Piet stuff" ?>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:10:09 -0700
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpruceWould like some clarification on the AS&S Would it help to go there in person with plans in hand?What do you mean "left field on the Piet stuff" ?>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 23:10:09 -0700
Re: Pietenpol-List: More DAR stuff
Original Posted By: "Gary Meadows"
Chris, Hey watchit! Don't go renouncing your Texcitizenship it must be something special, everyone seems to want to move in on us! I'll tell you a secret - Corky's Texas-born too!!! He just got out as quick as he could! I think maybe it was the fact that he liked gumbo better than chili! I was born on the East Coast - that would be the west bank of the Sabine river, so I missed being a Louisianian by one flood-width!Gary MeadowsIn almost washed-away Spring, TX________________________________________________________________________________
Chris, Hey watchit! Don't go renouncing your Texcitizenship it must be something special, everyone seems to want to move in on us! I'll tell you a secret - Corky's Texas-born too!!! He just got out as quick as he could! I think maybe it was the fact that he liked gumbo better than chili! I was born on the East Coast - that would be the west bank of the Sabine river, so I missed being a Louisianian by one flood-width!Gary MeadowsIn almost washed-away Spring, TX________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: "oil can"
I had thought I read that the AS&S spruce list was actually for a GN-1 and that those dimensions are different from a Piet. Not having built a GN-1 I can't say for sure, but I seem to remember the AS&S list mentioning the GN-1 Aircamper or somesuch.Chris - Stay on the soapbox, tort reform would help, as well as lawyer limits. Lets have say, 1 lawyer for every 100,000 citizens. I'm like you, I do a limited number of 100 hour inspections for folks who have planes on leaseback, but I have to know and trust them. I gave up A&P work full-time cause the money ain't there, but the legal exposure sure is. I'm afraid the time is approaching where we'll only be able to look fondly at our birds, and watch as the only thing left in the air are the 500 passenger cattle cars.The only folks who have a chance are us hard-headed do-it-yourselfers who insist on building their own! That is, IF we can get them to a DAR to get the paperwork done. The spam can owners won't have anyone left to work on theirs. I also own a spam-can, I'm glad I can do my own work.Wow, I just got depressed.....Gary MeadowsMaybe it's the rain________________________________________________________________________________
I had thought I read that the AS&S spruce list was actually for a GN-1 and that those dimensions are different from a Piet. Not having built a GN-1 I can't say for sure, but I seem to remember the AS&S list mentioning the GN-1 Aircamper or somesuch.Chris - Stay on the soapbox, tort reform would help, as well as lawyer limits. Lets have say, 1 lawyer for every 100,000 citizens. I'm like you, I do a limited number of 100 hour inspections for folks who have planes on leaseback, but I have to know and trust them. I gave up A&P work full-time cause the money ain't there, but the legal exposure sure is. I'm afraid the time is approaching where we'll only be able to look fondly at our birds, and watch as the only thing left in the air are the 500 passenger cattle cars.The only folks who have a chance are us hard-headed do-it-yourselfers who insist on building their own! That is, IF we can get them to a DAR to get the paperwork done. The spam can owners won't have anyone left to work on theirs. I also own a spam-can, I'm glad I can do my own work.Wow, I just got depressed.....Gary MeadowsMaybe it's the rain________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: "Tom & Michelle Brant"
> Pietenpol-List: Experimenter / Sport Aviation
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Dear Mr. Galley,I used to write articles for the magazine of "the cast bullet association." ( gun and shooting articles) These were mostly hand written on yellow paper...They were always printed in the magazine.I have thought many times about writing some articles about homebuilding, then submitting to magazines. However, my problen is/was; I thought that articles had to be with pictures, on slides, taken with an SLR camera, and some sort of special film.Are you saying that one can type his article on to a disk, with didigital picts., or scanned prints ? Then submit by e-mail ?Does one get paid for this ?Bob>From: "Cy Galley" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Experimenter / Sport Aviation>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:04:13 -0500>>>Guess what?>>You write an article about plans building and I'll see that it is published>giving you all the credit. Pictures and drawings that go with the article>helps make a good article great.>>You can send it to me via e-mail at either address. If you scan pictures,>try to make it 300 dpi. You can compress it a little as a JPG (7 out of 10>scale).>>If you would like to talk over an idea for an article, e-mail me your phone>number with a good time to call and I will call.>>Cy Galley>Editor, EAA Safety Programs>cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org>>----- Original Message ----->From: "Warren D. Shoun" >To: >Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 5:09 PM>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Experimenter / Sport Aviation>>>>>Carl,> I get both, and find Experimenter equally disappointing...nothing>against the ultra-light folks...the Experimenter is mostly dedicated to>them and the editorial guys will only discuss products they are>selling...don't seem to even know about products their advertisers are>paying space for in their own issue.> We do need a publication for the plans built folks.> Just a personal opinion,>Cheers,>Warren>>________________________________________________________________________________
Dear Mr. Galley,I used to write articles for the magazine of "the cast bullet association." ( gun and shooting articles) These were mostly hand written on yellow paper...They were always printed in the magazine.I have thought many times about writing some articles about homebuilding, then submitting to magazines. However, my problen is/was; I thought that articles had to be with pictures, on slides, taken with an SLR camera, and some sort of special film.Are you saying that one can type his article on to a disk, with didigital picts., or scanned prints ? Then submit by e-mail ?Does one get paid for this ?Bob>From: "Cy Galley" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Experimenter / Sport Aviation>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:04:13 -0500>>>Guess what?>>You write an article about plans building and I'll see that it is published>giving you all the credit. Pictures and drawings that go with the article>helps make a good article great.>>You can send it to me via e-mail at either address. If you scan pictures,>try to make it 300 dpi. You can compress it a little as a JPG (7 out of 10>scale).>>If you would like to talk over an idea for an article, e-mail me your phone>number with a good time to call and I will call.>>Cy Galley>Editor, EAA Safety Programs>cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org>>----- Original Message ----->From: "Warren D. Shoun" >To: >Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 5:09 PM>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Experimenter / Sport Aviation>>>>>Carl,> I get both, and find Experimenter equally disappointing...nothing>against the ultra-light folks...the Experimenter is mostly dedicated to>them and the editorial guys will only discuss products they are>selling...don't seem to even know about products their advertisers are>paying space for in their own issue.> We do need a publication for the plans built folks.> Just a personal opinion,>Cheers,>Warren>>________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By:
I was very satisfied with my spruce order from AS&S ( about two years ago)First they give you a quote on price and a list of dimensions and lengths.It's up to you if it's right . Mine was right on the money (I'm coveringnow)Few months ago I scanned the wood lists and reciepts, and emailed them towhoever wanted them. I'll be glad to fwd them to you if you haven't seenthem.walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
I was very satisfied with my spruce order from AS&S ( about two years ago)First they give you a quote on price and a list of dimensions and lengths.It's up to you if it's right . Mine was right on the money (I'm coveringnow)Few months ago I scanned the wood lists and reciepts, and emailed them towhoever wanted them. I'll be glad to fwd them to you if you haven't seenthem.walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: "Ignitor"
Re: Pietenpol-List: More DAR stuff
Original Posted By: "Ignitor"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: "Gary Meadows"
My spruce kit from AS for a GN-1 was shipped in 3/98 for $823.00, notincluding plywood. Frt. was $170.12.DickG.Ft. Myers, FL.----- Original Message -----
My spruce kit from AS for a GN-1 was shipped in 3/98 for $823.00, notincluding plywood. Frt. was $170.12.DickG.Ft. Myers, FL.----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Re: Pietenpol-List: Experimenter / Sport Aviation
Original Posted By: Christian Bobka
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: KGardner(at)odu.edu
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cowlingLarry in CVG,I am at the same building spot as you. I don't have a clue yet on how to go about building the cowl. I'm using an A-65 and I do have the eyebrows completed and installed. Lets keep in touch on this problem and maybe we can make it a little easier. Thanks,Corky in LA________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cowlingLarry in CVG,I am at the same building spot as you. I don't have a clue yet on how to go about building the cowl. I'm using an A-65 and I do have the eyebrows completed and installed. Lets keep in touch on this problem and maybe we can make it a little easier. Thanks,Corky in LA________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
ronics.com Re: Pietenpol-List:
Original Posted By: "Tom & Michelle Brant"
07/04/2001 12:13:16 PMHi List,Been off work this week to try to get the house painting finished up - likewhat everyone says about a Piet project - 90% finished & 90% to go! Atleast it's beginning to look like there's progress. I was one of the guysWalt sent his wood lists to & it looks to me like it's exactly what I need.From what Walt sent, it looks like he just gave them a list of the sizes &lengths of wood he wanted & they turned it into a quote & then an invoice.I guess the moral is when dealing with AS&S, DON'T tell them you want thePiet kit (or even that you are building a Piet), just order the wood youneed from Walt's list!Thanks again Walt!Kip Gardner (who is sick of house painting & wants to get to OH & startcutting Spruce!)Laboratory ManagerOld Dominion UniversityDept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 4414600 Elkhorn Ave.Norfolk, VA 23529Ph: 757-683-5654Bumper Sticker of the Week:"Honor Veterans - Stop War"(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran) wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net Sent by: To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc: ronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Spruce 06/30/01 05:25 Please respond to pietenpol-list I was very satisfied with my spruce order from AS&S ( about two years ago)First they give you a quote on price and a list of dimensions and lengths.It's up to you if it's right . Mine was right on the money (I'mcoveringnow)Few months ago I scanned the wood lists and reciepts, and emailed them towhoever wanted them. I'll be glad to fwd them to you if you haven't seenthem.walt-----------------------------------------------------________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:34:05 -0700
07/04/2001 12:13:16 PMHi List,Been off work this week to try to get the house painting finished up - likewhat everyone says about a Piet project - 90% finished & 90% to go! Atleast it's beginning to look like there's progress. I was one of the guysWalt sent his wood lists to & it looks to me like it's exactly what I need.From what Walt sent, it looks like he just gave them a list of the sizes &lengths of wood he wanted & they turned it into a quote & then an invoice.I guess the moral is when dealing with AS&S, DON'T tell them you want thePiet kit (or even that you are building a Piet), just order the wood youneed from Walt's list!Thanks again Walt!Kip Gardner (who is sick of house painting & wants to get to OH & startcutting Spruce!)Laboratory ManagerOld Dominion UniversityDept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmos. Sciences, Rm. 4414600 Elkhorn Ave.Norfolk, VA 23529Ph: 757-683-5654Bumper Sticker of the Week:"Honor Veterans - Stop War"(On the car of a friend who is a DFC-decorated WWII veteran) wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net Sent by: To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-list-server@mat cc: ronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List:Spruce 06/30/01 05:25 Please respond to pietenpol-list I was very satisfied with my spruce order from AS&S ( about two years ago)First they give you a quote on price and a list of dimensions and lengths.It's up to you if it's right . Mine was right on the money (I'mcoveringnow)Few months ago I scanned the wood lists and reciepts, and emailed them towhoever wanted them. I'll be glad to fwd them to you if you haven't seenthem.walt-----------------------------------------------------________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 11:34:05 -0700
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By:
Kip,Glad I could help. The typed wood list was given to AS&S as a guide , froma previous builder, that they generated their cut list from.Was right on the money for me ( long fuselage, three piece wing)walt(covering in Joisey)---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
Kip,Glad I could help. The typed wood list was given to AS&S as a guide , froma previous builder, that they generated their cut list from.Was right on the money for me ( long fuselage, three piece wing)walt(covering in Joisey)---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpruceIn a message dated 7/4/01 12:45:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:>I'm going to need that same list. Is there any reason that AS&S couldn't just keep that list, and call it their Pietenpol List ??How much difference is there between the list you have and the one AS&S sells as GN-1 kit ?-dennis________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SpruceIn a message dated 7/4/01 12:45:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:>I'm going to need that same list. Is there any reason that AS&S couldn't just keep that list, and call it their Pietenpol List ??How much difference is there between the list you have and the one AS&S sells as GN-1 kit ?-dennis________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By:
Dennis,That list came from AS&S. I think when they sent me the quote they saidsomething like " This is the best list we have and we quote from it. Checkit out and if it looks good, here is our price" ( This is paraphrased, butthat is the way I remember it)this was a few years ago, so they might not be as good now ,,,,OR they maybe better.Alls I know is that AS&S seems to go out of their way to please with correctorders and prompt service. As of today,( now I'm covering fuse, vert.stabilizer) I usually get my stuff from AS&S or Dillsburg for chrome molystuff.When this project is done and I start my next, if it's made of spruce, Iwill start at Aircraft Spruce.walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
Dennis,That list came from AS&S. I think when they sent me the quote they saidsomething like " This is the best list we have and we quote from it. Checkit out and if it looks good, here is our price" ( This is paraphrased, butthat is the way I remember it)this was a few years ago, so they might not be as good now ,,,,OR they maybe better.Alls I know is that AS&S seems to go out of their way to please with correctorders and prompt service. As of today,( now I'm covering fuse, vert.stabilizer) I usually get my stuff from AS&S or Dillsburg for chrome molystuff.When this project is done and I start my next, if it's made of spruce, Iwill start at Aircraft Spruce.walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spruce
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is it the right metal?
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is it the right metal?
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is it the right metal?In a message dated 7/6/01 6:57:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:> For every aluminum piece on my Piet I used 2024-T3, .025" thick.> The .032 seemed too difficult to cut, form and bend----plus there is> a small weight penalty. The cooling eyebrows, however, were made of > 2024-0,> or dead soft alum and have no cracks after 200 hours. Same for the> cowl and cockpit covers. Ordered all my alum from Dillsburg Aeroworks,> 717-432-4589. (and every cable and AN piece of hardware as well.)> > Mike C.> > > Mike,2024-T3 is what is used commonly for the skin on metal airplanes. It is fine for cowling, however, it is difficult to work. 6061-T6 is fine also and is much easier to work. I use it on all my airplanes and am ready to cowl the Scout now. I'll use .025 or .032 whichever I can find at the Yard Store here in Wichita. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:06:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is it the right metal?In a message dated 7/6/01 6:57:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Michael.D.Cuy(at)grc.nasa.gov writes:> For every aluminum piece on my Piet I used 2024-T3, .025" thick.> The .032 seemed too difficult to cut, form and bend----plus there is> a small weight penalty. The cooling eyebrows, however, were made of > 2024-0,> or dead soft alum and have no cracks after 200 hours. Same for the> cowl and cockpit covers. Ordered all my alum from Dillsburg Aeroworks,> 717-432-4589. (and every cable and AN piece of hardware as well.)> > Mike C.> > > Mike,2024-T3 is what is used commonly for the skin on metal airplanes. It is fine for cowling, however, it is difficult to work. 6061-T6 is fine also and is much easier to work. I use it on all my airplanes and am ready to cowl the Scout now. I'll use .025 or .032 whichever I can find at the Yard Store here in Wichita. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:06:26 -0400
RE: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives)
Original Posted By: krnet-bounces(at)mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces(at)mylist.net]On
I guess it was not as hard to find as I thought. I just searched glue in myinbox and the email was still there. See the following. My personalopinion is the T-88 works, is not expensive, and has been proven over a longtime.-----Original Message-----
I guess it was not as hard to find as I thought. I just searched glue in myinbox and the email was still there. See the following. My personalopinion is the T-88 works, is not expensive, and has been proven over a longtime.-----Original Message-----
Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce
Original Posted By: Owen Davies
Re: RE: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives)
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce
Original Posted By: Owen Davies
Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives)
Original Posted By: Owen Davies
Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives)
Original Posted By: "Owen Davies"
Owen,I never worked in the PVA industry. I've never studied the chemistry of this type of curing or polymerization. So can't help you there. Did work lots of years with amine curative for epoxies and urethanes, ain't dead yet. You just have to use common sense when working with any chemical, including household cleaners. As far as epoxies and their curatives, some people over the years become sensitized to the amine. It's kinda like rubbing your skin with bleach or ammonia or poison ivy leaves, your skin isn't going to like it. As far as inhalation, the amines are going to react with the epoxy pretty quickly starting the polymerization process, so you're not going to have too much of an inhalation problem. Saf-t-poxy had some styrene monomer in it, and smelled terrible. The styrene monomer was there to help bond with the polystyrene blue foam wing cores, but not needed for any other reason. Most of the systems sold by AirSpruce and Wicks don't have much of a smell. If you smell ammonia coming from the amine curative, it because it's adsorbing H2O from the air, shouldn't do this. The resin itself really doesn't have much of a smell. Bottomline, I would never recommend anything but a two part epoxy for anything structural on an airplane and I'd use only a proven system with a long track record. If you have the spray up equipment, and can stand the smell, a vinyl ester like Dow's Derakane is a proven quasi-epoxy system ie. Lancair. But Derakane is really epoxy's first chemical cousin.Gordon----- Original Message -----
Owen,I never worked in the PVA industry. I've never studied the chemistry of this type of curing or polymerization. So can't help you there. Did work lots of years with amine curative for epoxies and urethanes, ain't dead yet. You just have to use common sense when working with any chemical, including household cleaners. As far as epoxies and their curatives, some people over the years become sensitized to the amine. It's kinda like rubbing your skin with bleach or ammonia or poison ivy leaves, your skin isn't going to like it. As far as inhalation, the amines are going to react with the epoxy pretty quickly starting the polymerization process, so you're not going to have too much of an inhalation problem. Saf-t-poxy had some styrene monomer in it, and smelled terrible. The styrene monomer was there to help bond with the polystyrene blue foam wing cores, but not needed for any other reason. Most of the systems sold by AirSpruce and Wicks don't have much of a smell. If you smell ammonia coming from the amine curative, it because it's adsorbing H2O from the air, shouldn't do this. The resin itself really doesn't have much of a smell. Bottomline, I would never recommend anything but a two part epoxy for anything structural on an airplane and I'd use only a proven system with a long track record. If you have the spray up equipment, and can stand the smell, a vinyl ester like Dow's Derakane is a proven quasi-epoxy system ie. Lancair. But Derakane is really epoxy's first chemical cousin.Gordon----- Original Message -----
RE: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives)
Original Posted By:
Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives)
Original Posted By: "Owen Davies"
The glue test was published in the August 2007 (issue #192) Fine Woodworking magazine.The April 2005 (issue #176) also compared different types of glues.Greg C.----- Original Message -----
The glue test was published in the August 2007 (issue #192) Fine Woodworking magazine.The April 2005 (issue #176) also compared different types of glues.Greg C.----- Original Message -----
Re: Polyurethane glues (Was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spruce Alternatives)
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
This is the reason I'd only use it in situations where I could apply light clamping pressure to prevent foaming within the joint. The foamed glue has no structural strength whatsoever. To repeat, in my experience, you can get good bonding IF you use fresh glue, (I've found it actually makes sense to buy those little bottles unless I have a really big project - you throw a lot less away), apply a wetting layer to both surfaces, and apply light clamping pressure.I guess the only other comment I'd make is that there is no magic bullet when it comes to glues, each has it's good points and bad. As designer-builders, we have to be sure we understand all the parameters and then make a compromised choice (all choices are compromises, somehow).On Feb 27, 2008, at 7:08 AM, wrote:> Be aware that Gorilla glue expands when curing.I made the mistake > of using this stuff to put a rubber trim on my wing root > covers.What a mess.>
This is the reason I'd only use it in situations where I could apply light clamping pressure to prevent foaming within the joint. The foamed glue has no structural strength whatsoever. To repeat, in my experience, you can get good bonding IF you use fresh glue, (I've found it actually makes sense to buy those little bottles unless I have a really big project - you throw a lot less away), apply a wetting layer to both surfaces, and apply light clamping pressure.I guess the only other comment I'd make is that there is no magic bullet when it comes to glues, each has it's good points and bad. As designer-builders, we have to be sure we understand all the parameters and then make a compromised choice (all choices are compromises, somehow).On Feb 27, 2008, at 7:08 AM, wrote:> Be aware that Gorilla glue expands when curing.I made the mistake > of using this stuff to put a rubber trim on my wing root > covers.What a mess.>