Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Clif,As with all of the other photos of your construction, your work looks toprate.I really like your wooden cabanes - nice shape.And, from the shape of the cardboard on top, it looks as though you'rethinking about a "Moth style" fuel tank. I've been thinking the same thing,but you're way ahead of me.Very Nice.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Homemade TurnbucklesDate: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:40:28 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Pietenpol-List: Re: engine choices (was Acceptable Engine Confusion)
Original Posted By: "bhassel"
Bill,I did my turnbuckles in a similar fashion (independently).Tom BernieGloucester, MassOn Mar 28, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Bill Church wrote:> A few days ago Santiago posted a couple of links to the Flitzer > website. There are a lot of good construction ideas there. I've been > looking through different builder's sites, and noticed that the > Flitzer incorporates homemade turnbuckles for the drag and anti-drag > wires. At first I thought "that's simple - what a great idea". But > after looking at the (very low resolution) photos, I'm having a hard > time to figure out how they would work. Specifically, how would you > adjust the tension when the turnbuckle is installed? They appear to > have a short section of threaded rod joining the two halves, but to > lengthen or shorten the overall length, one would need to disconnect > the turnbuckle from one end, and rotate one end of the assembly. > Unless that isn't a threaded rod, but rather, a machine screw, but > then - how do you get a tool in there to turn the screw? I think > that this is likely the case, and perhaps there is enough room to > get a small allen key in there. I don't see any safety wires in the > photos> Anyone out there know any more about these fittings?>> Bill C.> Thomas Bernietsbe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine choices (was Acceptable Engine Confusion)
Bill,I did my turnbuckles in a similar fashion (independently).Tom BernieGloucester, MassOn Mar 28, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Bill Church wrote:> A few days ago Santiago posted a couple of links to the Flitzer > website. There are a lot of good construction ideas there. I've been > looking through different builder's sites, and noticed that the > Flitzer incorporates homemade turnbuckles for the drag and anti-drag > wires. At first I thought "that's simple - what a great idea". But > after looking at the (very low resolution) photos, I'm having a hard > time to figure out how they would work. Specifically, how would you > adjust the tension when the turnbuckle is installed? They appear to > have a short section of threaded rod joining the two halves, but to > lengthen or shorten the overall length, one would need to disconnect > the turnbuckle from one end, and rotate one end of the assembly. > Unless that isn't a threaded rod, but rather, a machine screw, but > then - how do you get a tool in there to turn the screw? I think > that this is likely the case, and perhaps there is enough room to > get a small allen key in there. I don't see any safety wires in the > photos> Anyone out there know any more about these fittings?>> Bill C.> Thomas Bernietsbe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: engine choices (was Acceptable Engine Confusion)
Original Posted By: Owen Davies
Thanks for the tip on Jeff! I was able to get a hold of hi this evening. It lookslike I'll also be joining his EAA chapter.Thanks again!BobSanta Fe, NMRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:09:12 -0400
Thanks for the tip on Jeff! I was able to get a hold of hi this evening. It lookslike I'll also be joining his EAA chapter.Thanks again!BobSanta Fe, NMRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:09:12 -0400
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Well, on Saturday, I decided to do a little experimenting with using solid wire vs. cables, and building a sample homemade turnbuckle.-First, the solid wire experimenting:I made a couple of jigs for bending the solid wire from scrap materials. The design of the jigs was based on information I have gathered over the last week - thanks to many listers (Santiago, Clif, John and others), and was easy to build. Since it was all made from scrap, the cost was nothing. I just happened to have a bit of .080" galvanized fence wire laying around as well. The jig to bend the loop in the end of the wire is pretty straightforward, and worked well. The jig (if you want to call it that) for bending the ferrules was even more straightforward - just a piece of rod, ground down to approximately the right shape and size, and then driven into a block of hardwood. It also worked well. I made up a couple of assemblies to test out the jigs, and as expected, the second and third attempts were much better than the first. I think that after a doing a dozen or so, I would get the technique down to a science (or at least obtain consistant results). Overall-I was pretty pleased with the finished product (for an amateur) - looks good, and feels strong.-Second, the homemade turnbuckle:My design for the homemade turnbuckle was based on two things. One was a couple of low-resolution photos of the turnbuckles used on the Flitzer biplanes. And the other was common sense (more or less) based on size and load carrying capacity. I made the ends of the turnbuckle from a couple of strips of 16ga steel (1/2" x 5"). Because this strip was small, it was possible to form by hand, and then squeeze in a vise (with the 3/8" rod in place). The threaded and non-threaded inserts for each end were fabricated from a bit of 3/8"diameter stainless steel rod (1/2" long), on which I ground down a flat section for the bolt to mate with. The threaded portion of the turnbuckle is a #10-32 allen bolt (hex socket stainless steel machine screw). Like any hex head bolt, the allen bolt only needs to be rotated 1/6 of a turn (or 60=B0)-in order to position the wrench for the next -"crank", but the allen bolt does not need any clearance around the head for a wrench, since the wrench fits inside the head. However, this is still a bit tight the way I built my prototype, and needs a bit of refinement - maybe 1/2" rod instead of 3/8". I also need to devise a method to incorporate a safety wire, to prevent the tension from releasing.I put all the parts together and screwed them to a hunk of 2x4, and tightened up the turnbuckle, and it worked!Photos and description have been posted on mykitplane.com:-http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildL ... amper-Note that all of this work was done in my basic garage workshop, with no special equipment - just an angle grinder, a hammer, a drill press and a bench vise.-Before using either of these products (solid wire bracing and homemade turnbuckles) I-would suggest doing some physical testing to determine the actual breaking strength(s) based on the actual materials used.-Bill C.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Well, on Saturday, I decided to do a little experimenting with using solid wire vs. cables, and building a sample homemade turnbuckle.-First, the solid wire experimenting:I made a couple of jigs for bending the solid wire from scrap materials. The design of the jigs was based on information I have gathered over the last week - thanks to many listers (Santiago, Clif, John and others), and was easy to build. Since it was all made from scrap, the cost was nothing. I just happened to have a bit of .080" galvanized fence wire laying around as well. The jig to bend the loop in the end of the wire is pretty straightforward, and worked well. The jig (if you want to call it that) for bending the ferrules was even more straightforward - just a piece of rod, ground down to approximately the right shape and size, and then driven into a block of hardwood. It also worked well. I made up a couple of assemblies to test out the jigs, and as expected, the second and third attempts were much better than the first. I think that after a doing a dozen or so, I would get the technique down to a science (or at least obtain consistant results). Overall-I was pretty pleased with the finished product (for an amateur) - looks good, and feels strong.-Second, the homemade turnbuckle:My design for the homemade turnbuckle was based on two things. One was a couple of low-resolution photos of the turnbuckles used on the Flitzer biplanes. And the other was common sense (more or less) based on size and load carrying capacity. I made the ends of the turnbuckle from a couple of strips of 16ga steel (1/2" x 5"). Because this strip was small, it was possible to form by hand, and then squeeze in a vise (with the 3/8" rod in place). The threaded and non-threaded inserts for each end were fabricated from a bit of 3/8"diameter stainless steel rod (1/2" long), on which I ground down a flat section for the bolt to mate with. The threaded portion of the turnbuckle is a #10-32 allen bolt (hex socket stainless steel machine screw). Like any hex head bolt, the allen bolt only needs to be rotated 1/6 of a turn (or 60=B0)-in order to position the wrench for the next -"crank", but the allen bolt does not need any clearance around the head for a wrench, since the wrench fits inside the head. However, this is still a bit tight the way I built my prototype, and needs a bit of refinement - maybe 1/2" rod instead of 3/8". I also need to devise a method to incorporate a safety wire, to prevent the tension from releasing.I put all the parts together and screwed them to a hunk of 2x4, and tightened up the turnbuckle, and it worked!Photos and description have been posted on mykitplane.com:-http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildL ... amper-Note that all of this work was done in my basic garage workshop, with no special equipment - just an angle grinder, a hammer, a drill press and a bench vise.-Before using either of these products (solid wire bracing and homemade turnbuckles) I-would suggest doing some physical testing to determine the actual breaking strength(s) based on the actual materials used.-Bill C.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"
I use an allen wrench, holding the nut with a custom made spanner (or a vicegrip if I have clearance). It's not easy and you have to be careful not to twist the cable, but once it's locked down it's fine.On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Owen Davies wrote:> >>> Thomas Bernie wrote:>> I did my turnbuckles in a similar fashion (independently).> How do you tighten them? There isn't much clearance to get a wrench > in, much less actually turn the nut.>> Owen>>Thomas Bernietsbe________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:21:00 -0500
I use an allen wrench, holding the nut with a custom made spanner (or a vicegrip if I have clearance). It's not easy and you have to be careful not to twist the cable, but once it's locked down it's fine.On Mar 30, 2008, at 10:09 PM, Owen Davies wrote:> >>> Thomas Bernie wrote:>> I did my turnbuckles in a similar fashion (independently).> How do you tighten them? There isn't much clearance to get a wrench > in, much less actually turn the nut.>> Owen>>Thomas Bernietsbe________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:21:00 -0500
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Well, on Saturday, I decided to do a little experimenting with using solidwire vs. cables, and building a sample homemade turnbuckle.First, the solid wire experimenting:I made a couple of jigs for bending the solid wire from scrap materials. Thedesign of the jigs was based on information I have gathered over the lastweek - thanks to many listers (Santiago, Clif, John and others), and waseasy to build. Since it was all made from scrap, the cost was nothing. Ijust happened to have a bit of .080" galvanized fence wire laying around aswell. The jig to bend the loop in the end of the wire is prettystraightforward, and worked well. The jig (if you want to call it that) forbending the ferrules was even more straightforward - just a piece of rod,ground down to approximately the right shape and size, and then driven intoa block of hardwood. It also worked well. I made up a couple of assembliesto test out the jigs, and as expected, the second and third attempts weremuch better than the first. I think that after a doing a dozen or so, Iwould get the technique down to a science (or at least obtain consistantresults). Overall I was pretty pleased with the finished product (for anamateur) - looks good, and feels strong.Second, the homemade turnbuckle:My design for the homemade turnbuckle was based on two things. One was acouple of low-resolution photos of the turnbuckles used on the Flitzerbiplanes. And the other was common sense (more or less) based on size andload carrying capacity. I made the ends of the turnbuckle from a couple ofstrips of 16ga steel (1/2" x 5"). Because this strip was small, it waspossible to form by hand, and then squeeze in a vise (with the 3/8" rod inplace). The threaded and non-threaded inserts for each end were fabricatedfrom a bit of 3/8"diameter stainless steel rod (1/2" long), on which Iground down a flat section for the bolt to mate with. The threaded portionof the turnbuckle is a #10-32 allen bolt (hex socket stainless steel machinescrew). Like any hex head bolt, the allen bolt only needs to be rotated 1/6of a turn (or 60=B0) in order to position the wrench for the next "crank",but the allen bolt does not need any clearance around the head for a wrench,since the wrench fits inside the head. However, this is still a bit tightthe way I built my prototype, and needs a bit of refinement - maybe 1/2" rodinstead of 3/8". I also need to devise a method to incorporate a safetywire, to prevent the tension from releasing.I put all the parts together and screwed them to a hunk of 2x4, andtightened up the turnbuckle, and it worked!Photos and description have been posted on mykitplane.com:http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildL ... CamperNote that all of this work was done in my basic garage workshop, with nospecial equipment - just an angle grinder, a hammer, a drill press and abench vise.Before using either of these products (solid wire bracing and homemadeturnbuckles) I would suggest doing some physical testing to determine theactual breaking strength(s) based on the actual materials used.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________
Well, on Saturday, I decided to do a little experimenting with using solidwire vs. cables, and building a sample homemade turnbuckle.First, the solid wire experimenting:I made a couple of jigs for bending the solid wire from scrap materials. Thedesign of the jigs was based on information I have gathered over the lastweek - thanks to many listers (Santiago, Clif, John and others), and waseasy to build. Since it was all made from scrap, the cost was nothing. Ijust happened to have a bit of .080" galvanized fence wire laying around aswell. The jig to bend the loop in the end of the wire is prettystraightforward, and worked well. The jig (if you want to call it that) forbending the ferrules was even more straightforward - just a piece of rod,ground down to approximately the right shape and size, and then driven intoa block of hardwood. It also worked well. I made up a couple of assembliesto test out the jigs, and as expected, the second and third attempts weremuch better than the first. I think that after a doing a dozen or so, Iwould get the technique down to a science (or at least obtain consistantresults). Overall I was pretty pleased with the finished product (for anamateur) - looks good, and feels strong.Second, the homemade turnbuckle:My design for the homemade turnbuckle was based on two things. One was acouple of low-resolution photos of the turnbuckles used on the Flitzerbiplanes. And the other was common sense (more or less) based on size andload carrying capacity. I made the ends of the turnbuckle from a couple ofstrips of 16ga steel (1/2" x 5"). Because this strip was small, it waspossible to form by hand, and then squeeze in a vise (with the 3/8" rod inplace). The threaded and non-threaded inserts for each end were fabricatedfrom a bit of 3/8"diameter stainless steel rod (1/2" long), on which Iground down a flat section for the bolt to mate with. The threaded portionof the turnbuckle is a #10-32 allen bolt (hex socket stainless steel machinescrew). Like any hex head bolt, the allen bolt only needs to be rotated 1/6of a turn (or 60=B0) in order to position the wrench for the next "crank",but the allen bolt does not need any clearance around the head for a wrench,since the wrench fits inside the head. However, this is still a bit tightthe way I built my prototype, and needs a bit of refinement - maybe 1/2" rodinstead of 3/8". I also need to devise a method to incorporate a safetywire, to prevent the tension from releasing.I put all the parts together and screwed them to a hunk of 2x4, andtightened up the turnbuckle, and it worked!Photos and description have been posted on mykitplane.com:http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/buildL ... CamperNote that all of this work was done in my basic garage workshop, with nospecial equipment - just an angle grinder, a hammer, a drill press and abench vise.Before using either of these products (solid wire bracing and homemadeturnbuckles) I would suggest doing some physical testing to determine theactual breaking strength(s) based on the actual materials used.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thanks for the input, Del.As I wrote, I will need to do a bit more experimenting with this beforeputting it in my plane. I plan to do a bit of tension testing of the bentwire + ferrules to see how they hold up, and see if they do "give". I wouldplan to pre-load them before installing in any case - to ensure that theyare "snug". And you are definitely right about not feeding the wire directlythrough the drilled holes - I would probably use a clevis pin there - thewire acting directly on the raw edge of the turnbuckle would NOT be a goodthing.This was my first prototype - made with materials I had on hand. It's not afinal design, but I think it's on the right track.Bill C. _____
Thanks for the input, Del.As I wrote, I will need to do a bit more experimenting with this beforeputting it in my plane. I plan to do a bit of tension testing of the bentwire + ferrules to see how they hold up, and see if they do "give". I wouldplan to pre-load them before installing in any case - to ensure that theyare "snug". And you are definitely right about not feeding the wire directlythrough the drilled holes - I would probably use a clevis pin there - thewire acting directly on the raw edge of the turnbuckle would NOT be a goodthing.This was my first prototype - made with materials I had on hand. It's not afinal design, but I think it's on the right track.Bill C. _____
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Speaking of turnbuckles, I got a bunch of hardware store turnbuckles with myplane. They have an aluminum body and steel eye bolts. Are people usingthat type in their planes? They are kind of scarey looking to me.Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----
Speaking of turnbuckles, I got a bunch of hardware store turnbuckles with myplane. They have an aluminum body and steel eye bolts. Are people usingthat type in their planes? They are kind of scarey looking to me.Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Now, there's a good idea.Good thinking, Hans. -----Original Message-----
Now, there's a good idea.Good thinking, Hans. -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Take off roll
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
The spec for take off roll says 150ft. I got the impression last week from someof the guys that it was much longer than that. I watched some videos on youtubeand it seemed much longer than 150 ft. Have any of you guys with a flyingPiet ever tried to figure out your take off roll flying solo? I was wonderingwhat a more realistic number might be. Thanks, Jeremy DFW, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Take off rollDate: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:01:17 -0400
The spec for take off roll says 150ft. I got the impression last week from someof the guys that it was much longer than that. I watched some videos on youtubeand it seemed much longer than 150 ft. Have any of you guys with a flyingPiet ever tried to figure out your take off roll flying solo? I was wonderingwhat a more realistic number might be. Thanks, Jeremy DFW, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Take off rollDate: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:01:17 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade TurnbucklesWhy not use drilled AN nut for safety wire?In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" Now, there's a good idea.Good thinking, Hans. -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade TurnbucklesWhy not use drilled AN nut for safety wire?In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" Now, there's a good idea.Good thinking, Hans. -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
BScott,Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the turnbuckle, butrather, as an easier method to adjust the tension, since the adjusting canbe done in the middle, as opposed to sticking an allen key inside thefitting. I've attached an image to help illustrate. _____
BScott,Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the turnbuckle, butrather, as an easier method to adjust the tension, since the adjusting canbe done in the middle, as opposed to sticking an allen key inside thefitting. I've attached an image to help illustrate. _____
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use?Jack,The engine flange (which is actually the transmission attach flange on the Ford A) has only 4 threaded holes 7/16" dia. available to attach my continental-style prop hub that I got from Ken Perkins. This engine flange hasno clearance to speak of between it and the crankcase. The six prop hold-on boltsdo not line-up at all with these four available engine flange holes. (http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoD ... hotoID=815) In this photo you can see the four bolts that attach this hub to the engine flange (black socket head) that will be recessed into this prop flange when tight. There is no room to get any safety wire on the heads of these four socket head bolts either. Ken Perkins says to use Locktite but I need to knowwhich kind I can depend on. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvemen ... 0000000001)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade TurnbucklesDate: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:23:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Which Locktite to use?Jack,The engine flange (which is actually the transmission attach flange on the Ford A) has only 4 threaded holes 7/16" dia. available to attach my continental-style prop hub that I got from Ken Perkins. This engine flange hasno clearance to speak of between it and the crankcase. The six prop hold-on boltsdo not line-up at all with these four available engine flange holes. (http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoD ... hotoID=815) In this photo you can see the four bolts that attach this hub to the engine flange (black socket head) that will be recessed into this prop flange when tight. There is no room to get any safety wire on the heads of these four socket head bolts either. Ken Perkins says to use Locktite but I need to knowwhich kind I can depend on. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvemen ... 0000000001)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade TurnbucklesDate: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 09:23:55 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Good idea, i think that would work fine -- probably take 6 different sizes and be lighter.On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:26 PM, BScott116(at)aol.com wrote:> Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire?>> In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com> writes:> >>> Now, there's a good idea.> Good thinking, Hans.>> -----Original Message-----
Good idea, i think that would work fine -- probably take 6 different sizes and be lighter.On Mar 31, 2008, at 11:26 PM, BScott116(at)aol.com wrote:> Why not use drilled AN nut for safety wire?>> In a message dated 3/31/2008 2:33:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, eng(at)canadianrogers.com> writes:> >>> Now, there's a good idea.> Good thinking, Hans.>> -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: Kirk Huizenga
They are pain. Yours is a superior design design.On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Bill Church wrote:>> Tom,>> Nice photo.> Your turnbuckles look very sililar to the Flitzer-style fittings. > How are they for adjusting? (pain in the butt, or just as annoying > as regular turnbuckles). Of course, the adjusting should be a one- > time thing, so as long as they work, the extra fiddling (if any) > should be inconsequential, in the long run.> Will you need to safety wire the assembly, or does the jam-nut do > that for you?> Thanks for sharing.>> Bill C.>>Thomas Bernietsbe________________________________________________________________________________
They are pain. Yours is a superior design design.On Mar 31, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Bill Church wrote:>> Tom,>> Nice photo.> Your turnbuckles look very sililar to the Flitzer-style fittings. > How are they for adjusting? (pain in the butt, or just as annoying > as regular turnbuckles). Of course, the adjusting should be a one- > time thing, so as long as they work, the extra fiddling (if any) > should be inconsequential, in the long run.> Will you need to safety wire the assembly, or does the jam-nut do > that for you?> Thanks for sharing.>> Bill C.>>Thomas Bernietsbe________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-
Bill, nice drawing - is that Inventor?KirkOn Apr 1, 2008, at 7:43 AM, Bill Church wrote:> BScott,> Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the > turnbuckle, but rather, as an easier method to adjust the tension, > since the adjusting can be done in the middle, as opposed to > sticking an allen key inside the fitting. I've attached an image to > help illustrate.>> >
Bill, nice drawing - is that Inventor?KirkOn Apr 1, 2008, at 7:43 AM, Bill Church wrote:> BScott,> Hans wasn't saying to use this nut as a method to safety the > turnbuckle, but rather, as an easier method to adjust the tension, > since the adjusting can be done in the middle, as opposed to > sticking an allen key inside the fitting. I've attached an image to > help illustrate.>> >
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Kirk,It was created with SolidWorks.Very similar to Inventor.Very powerful and impressive CAD program.Here's another view, but with metallic finishes rather than colours (orcolors).Bill _____
Kirk,It was created with SolidWorks.Very similar to Inventor.Very powerful and impressive CAD program.Here's another view, but with metallic finishes rather than colours (orcolors).Bill _____
Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Mike;Doesn't look to me like anybody actually answered your question about thedifferences between the two hubs (Pietenpol and Wynne) for the Corvairconversion, so I'll throw in my two cents' worth and see if I can addanything.I have the Pietenpol drawings and the hub sheets are dated November of 1972. The material indicated for the hub is "aluminum casting". The designpioneered the use of a "safety shaft" through the center of the hubinto a threaded 3/4" deep bore in the center of the crankshaft end (nose). The safety shaft is called out to be a 5" long, 1" dia. 4130 or 4140steel rod, or 1" dia. by .250" wall 4130 steel tube, threaded 18threads to the inch. The hub is mounted to the crankshaft flange using standardChevy 11/32" capscrews, 1" long. This requires that the holes in thehub be bored very deep into it and that a long, thinwall socket be used totighten them. The flange itself has a standard bolt pattern and is .438"thick at the prop flange. Overall length is given as 2.875".I say all of this to contrast this hub to the Wynne hub, which is quite a bitbeefier but is obviously an adaptation and improvement on Mr. Pietenpol'shub. It is 3.5" long with a 1.1" thick prop flange, and is machinedfrom 2024 aluminum, but William says it could be made from 6061. William'sdesign uses a safety shaft that is 6" long because the hub is a bitheavier, longer, and stouter- and the safety shaft threads 1" into thecrank nose rather than 3/4" as in the Pietenpol. The threads are 14threads per inch (coarser than the Pietenpol). While the Pietenpol hub body isslightly tapered, the Wynne design is straight, again making it beefier. William's preferred method of mounting to the crank flange is through theuse of what William calls "hybrid studs", which are threaded with theChevy 11/32" on one end and a more standard 3/8-24 thread on the nut endthat holds the hub to the crank flange.Here's what William says about the Pietenpol hub in his manual, of which Ihave three different editions dating back more than 10 years: "This methodwas pioneered by Bernie [sic] Pietenpol in the early 1960s. Although I know ofno failures of Bernie's way of doing it, my method is a little different anduses different materials, but the concept is the same." He also says, "The Pietenpol method is brought up for technical reference only. If youare building an exact replica of Bernie's engine, his son Don is the bestsource of information on it. Years ago, a number of cast aluminum hubs weremade to Bernie's drawings. Some of these are still floating around forsale. These are light duty units suited only to the modest flying done byPietenpols.".My take-away: make your hub using the Pietenpol or the Wynne drawings, butALWAYS use a safety shaft and ALWAYS use at least 6061 aluminum, NOT any castmaterial. To my non-machinist's eye, the two hubs require about the sameamount of machine work to produce but the Wynne hub has no tapers to cut and isstronger in some important areas, and is a little less than an inch or solonger. Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:53:16 -0400
Mike;Doesn't look to me like anybody actually answered your question about thedifferences between the two hubs (Pietenpol and Wynne) for the Corvairconversion, so I'll throw in my two cents' worth and see if I can addanything.I have the Pietenpol drawings and the hub sheets are dated November of 1972. The material indicated for the hub is "aluminum casting". The designpioneered the use of a "safety shaft" through the center of the hubinto a threaded 3/4" deep bore in the center of the crankshaft end (nose). The safety shaft is called out to be a 5" long, 1" dia. 4130 or 4140steel rod, or 1" dia. by .250" wall 4130 steel tube, threaded 18threads to the inch. The hub is mounted to the crankshaft flange using standardChevy 11/32" capscrews, 1" long. This requires that the holes in thehub be bored very deep into it and that a long, thinwall socket be used totighten them. The flange itself has a standard bolt pattern and is .438"thick at the prop flange. Overall length is given as 2.875".I say all of this to contrast this hub to the Wynne hub, which is quite a bitbeefier but is obviously an adaptation and improvement on Mr. Pietenpol'shub. It is 3.5" long with a 1.1" thick prop flange, and is machinedfrom 2024 aluminum, but William says it could be made from 6061. William'sdesign uses a safety shaft that is 6" long because the hub is a bitheavier, longer, and stouter- and the safety shaft threads 1" into thecrank nose rather than 3/4" as in the Pietenpol. The threads are 14threads per inch (coarser than the Pietenpol). While the Pietenpol hub body isslightly tapered, the Wynne design is straight, again making it beefier. William's preferred method of mounting to the crank flange is through theuse of what William calls "hybrid studs", which are threaded with theChevy 11/32" on one end and a more standard 3/8-24 thread on the nut endthat holds the hub to the crank flange.Here's what William says about the Pietenpol hub in his manual, of which Ihave three different editions dating back more than 10 years: "This methodwas pioneered by Bernie [sic] Pietenpol in the early 1960s. Although I know ofno failures of Bernie's way of doing it, my method is a little different anduses different materials, but the concept is the same." He also says, "The Pietenpol method is brought up for technical reference only. If youare building an exact replica of Bernie's engine, his son Don is the bestsource of information on it. Years ago, a number of cast aluminum hubs weremade to Bernie's drawings. Some of these are still floating around forsale. These are light duty units suited only to the modest flying done byPietenpols.".My take-away: make your hub using the Pietenpol or the Wynne drawings, butALWAYS use a safety shaft and ALWAYS use at least 6061 aluminum, NOT any castmaterial. To my non-machinist's eye, the two hubs require about the sameamount of machine work to produce but the Wynne hub has no tapers to cut and isstronger in some important areas, and is a little less than an inch or solonger. Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:53:16 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possiblealternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Foundsome surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraftcable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MSturnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on theother, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs.so it's a good match for that cable.Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum"screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find thatit might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum bodyand the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on togalvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, stillvery affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steelturnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engagemaybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have acaution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "failsrather sharply"?The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot moreattractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Isthe aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don'tknow. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadingson any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred,someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these thingsagainst their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainlessturnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, butI would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with atleast a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10turnbuckle. Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade TurnbucklesDate: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:21:03 -0400
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possiblealternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Foundsome surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraftcable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MSturnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on theother, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs.so it's a good match for that cable.Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum"screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find thatit might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum bodyand the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on togalvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, stillvery affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steelturnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engagemaybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have acaution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "failsrather sharply"?The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot moreattractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Isthe aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don'tknow. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadingson any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred,someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these thingsagainst their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainlessturnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, butI would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with atleast a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10turnbuckle. Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade TurnbucklesDate: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:21:03 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possiblealternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Foundsome surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraftcable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MSturnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on theother, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs.so it's a good match for that cable.Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum"screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find thatit might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum bodyand the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on togalvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, stillvery affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steelturnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engagemaybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have acaution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "failsrather sharply"?The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot moreattractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Isthe aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don'tknow. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadingson any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred,someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these thingsagainst their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainlessturnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, butI would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with atleast a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10turnbuckle.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.netD============================3D=====D==================================D==================================D===================================0A**************************************________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possiblealternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Foundsome surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraftcable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MSturnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on theother, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs.so it's a good match for that cable.Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum"screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find thatit might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum bodyand the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on togalvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, stillvery affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steelturnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engagemaybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have acaution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "failsrather sharply"?The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot moreattractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Isthe aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don'tknow. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadingson any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred,someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these thingsagainst their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainlessturnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, butI would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with atleast a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10turnbuckle.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.netD============================3D=====D==================================D==================================D===================================0A**************************************________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 06:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possiblealternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Foundsome surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19aircraftcable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick anAN/MSturnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on theother, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs.so it's a good match for that cable.Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum"screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find thatit might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum bodyand the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on togalvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, stillvery affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steelturnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engagemaybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have acaution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "failsrather sharply"?The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot moreattractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Isthe aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don'tknow. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadingson any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred,someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these thingsagainst their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainlessturnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, butI would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with atleast a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10turnbuckle.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.netD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A**************************************________________________________________________________________________________
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possiblealternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Foundsome surprises. For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19aircraftcable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick anAN/MSturnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye on one end and a fork on theother, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs.so it's a good match for that cable.Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum"screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find thatit might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum bodyand the minimal number of threads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on togalvanized steel and the strength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, stillvery affordable. Now on to the better stuff and we find stainless steelturnbuckles, which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engagemaybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have acaution that the working load should not be exceeded. Can you say "failsrather sharply"?The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot moreattractive but the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Isthe aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don'tknow. I have not run any sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadingson any of them, but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred,someone had better do some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these thingsagainst their working stresses before we substitute. Those stainlessturnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, butI would have to assure myself that they could handle the flight loads with atleast a 2x factor of safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10turnbuckle.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.netD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A**************************************________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
Ken,-I kind of got sidetracked away from the homemade turnbuckles for a while, and I've actually been building my tailfeathers. So, the short answer to your question is "No, I haven't".Having said that, here's the long answer.I didn't do any strength calculations, but I have a strong feeling that the turnbuckles as I made them will be sufficient in strength, but I have yet to do some real-world pull testing to see what they can safely handle. Before I do the pull test I wanted-to refine the design a bit to make them a bit more user friendly. That way I'll be testing the proper part, not just something similar. I still plan to do it, just not right now. If you need an answer right now, I think just about anyone could make up a set of these in a short period of time, and then do their own testing using a simple apparatus (lever and pivot). When I do get around to revising the design and doing the pull-testing, I'll share the results with the list.If you want more details about how I made the prototype, let me know. -Bill C.
Ken,-I kind of got sidetracked away from the homemade turnbuckles for a while, and I've actually been building my tailfeathers. So, the short answer to your question is "No, I haven't".Having said that, here's the long answer.I didn't do any strength calculations, but I have a strong feeling that the turnbuckles as I made them will be sufficient in strength, but I have yet to do some real-world pull testing to see what they can safely handle. Before I do the pull test I wanted-to refine the design a bit to make them a bit more user friendly. That way I'll be testing the proper part, not just something similar. I still plan to do it, just not right now. If you need an answer right now, I think just about anyone could make up a set of these in a short period of time, and then do their own testing using a simple apparatus (lever and pivot). When I do get around to revising the design and doing the pull-testing, I'll share the results with the list.If you want more details about how I made the prototype, let me know. -Bill C.
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Ken,I kind of got sidetracked away from the homemade turnbuckles for a while,and I've actually been building my tailfeathers. So, the short answer toyour question is "No, I haven't".Having said that, here's the long answer.I didn't do any strength calculations, but I have a strong feeling that theturnbuckles as I made them will be sufficient in strength, but I have yet todo some real-world pull testing to see what they can safely handle. Before Ido the pull test I wanted to refine the design a bit to make them a bit moreuser friendly. That way I'll be testing the proper part, not just somethingsimilar. I still plan to do it, just not right now. If you need an answerright now, I think just about anyone could make up a set of these in a shortperiod of time, and then do their own testing using a simple apparatus(lever and pivot). When I do get around to revising the design and doing thepull-testing, I'll share the results with the list.If you want more details about how I made the prototype, let me know. Bill C. _____
Ken,I kind of got sidetracked away from the homemade turnbuckles for a while,and I've actually been building my tailfeathers. So, the short answer toyour question is "No, I haven't".Having said that, here's the long answer.I didn't do any strength calculations, but I have a strong feeling that theturnbuckles as I made them will be sufficient in strength, but I have yet todo some real-world pull testing to see what they can safely handle. Before Ido the pull test I wanted to refine the design a bit to make them a bit moreuser friendly. That way I'll be testing the proper part, not just somethingsimilar. I still plan to do it, just not right now. If you need an answerright now, I think just about anyone could make up a set of these in a shortperiod of time, and then do their own testing using a simple apparatus(lever and pivot). When I do get around to revising the design and doing thepull-testing, I'll share the results with the list.If you want more details about how I made the prototype, let me know. Bill C. _____
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP"
RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More Time
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More Time
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Ken,Let me see what I can put together for you.Bill _____
Ken,Let me see what I can put together for you.Bill _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More Time
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More TimeSon....Son.... I'd be obliged if you propped me son. You're a good looser ad I like good losers, I bet you've had plenty of practiceIn a message dated 7/31/2008 5:06:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes:Hmmm that didn=99t work. Matronics must have stripped the pictures I sent. I=99ll try again. Jack ____________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More TimeSon....Son.... I'd be obliged if you propped me son. You're a good looser ad I like good losers, I bet you've had plenty of practiceIn a message dated 7/31/2008 5:06:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes:Hmmm that didn=99t work. Matronics must have stripped the pictures I sent. I=99ll try again. Jack ____________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More Time
Original Posted By: Tim Verthein
RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More TimeSorry I missed it. Hope to be there next year. Your photos still have not come thru.Gene________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More TimeSorry I missed it. Hope to be there next year. Your photos still have not come thru.Gene________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett install
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible alternativeto AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Found some surprises.For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraft cable. It's ratedat 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MS turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4")threads, an eye on one end and a fork on the other, roughly 4-1/2" long.It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs. so it's a good match for that cable.Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum "screen door"turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that it might be rated a couple ofhundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum body and the minimal number ofthreads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on to galvanized steel and thestrength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, still very affordable. Nowon to the better stuff and we find stainless steel turnbuckles, which are availablein both open and closed body and seem to engage maybe twice as many threadsbut are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have a caution that the workingload should not be exceeded. Can you say "fails rather sharply"?The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot more attractivebut the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Is the aircrafthardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don't know. I have not runany sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadings on any of them,but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred, someone had betterdo some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things against theirworking stresses before we substitute. Those stainless turnbuckles look greatto me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, but I would have to assuremyself that they could handle the flight loads with at least a 2x factorof safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10 turnbuckle. Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett install
I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible alternativeto AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to snoop. Found some surprises.For example, let's take the typical 1/8" 7x19 aircraft cable. It's ratedat 2000 lbs. strength. For that, let's pick an AN/MS turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4")threads, an eye on one end and a fork on the other, roughly 4-1/2" long.It is rated something a little over 2000 lbs. so it's a good match for that cable.Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum "screen door"turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that it might be rated a couple ofhundred pounds, obviously due to the aluminum body and the minimal number ofthreads on the eyes that engage the body. Move on to galvanized steel and thestrength improves to a couple of hundred pounds, still very affordable. Nowon to the better stuff and we find stainless steel turnbuckles, which are availablein both open and closed body and seem to engage maybe twice as many threadsbut are rated no more than 800 lbs. and also have a caution that the workingload should not be exceeded. Can you say "fails rather sharply"?The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot more attractivebut the strength is just not there without really getting heavy. Is the aircrafthardware 'overkill' for the working loads? I don't know. I have not runany sort of analysis to determine the aerodynamic loadings on any of them,but when we go from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred, someone had betterdo some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things against theirworking stresses before we substitute. Those stainless turnbuckles look greatto me and are about 1/3 the price of AN/MS hardware, but I would have to assuremyself that they could handle the flight loads with at least a 2x factorof safety because my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10 turnbuckle. Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett install
Original Posted By: Roman Bukolt
CG range of the Riblett is very close to the Piet, with a lighter engine up frontI add a slight bungee pull on the forward side of the stick, when the Wernerwent on a little back pressure was added. except when full power was applyedon the Werner a forward pressure was applyed to keep from climbing over 2000FPM.I kept the spar the same as Piet as all the fittings don't require a change.The cord line is higher on the 612, I suspect the angle of incident can be reduced.I have flown with 5 different engines on the same Piet and do-not changeanything, just to test engines, Now that I am trying the 612 I retry engines .Don't be surprised to see a great improvement in flight, when using the 612.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
CG range of the Riblett is very close to the Piet, with a lighter engine up frontI add a slight bungee pull on the forward side of the stick, when the Wernerwent on a little back pressure was added. except when full power was applyedon the Werner a forward pressure was applyed to keep from climbing over 2000FPM.I kept the spar the same as Piet as all the fittings don't require a change.The cord line is higher on the 612, I suspect the angle of incident can be reduced.I have flown with 5 different engines on the same Piet and do-not changeanything, just to test engines, Now that I am trying the 612 I retry engines .Don't be surprised to see a great improvement in flight, when using the 612.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "Dennis Engelkenjohn"
Just back from EAAB & B Specialties is where I buy all my turnbuckles, all aircraft quality and with any type ends you want, the whole assembly costs about $10.00 each. Their prices are as little as 1/2 the price others in the same Fly Market are charging and their prices are the same all yr. around, not "Show Specials". They don't have a catalog but get part numbers out of AC/S, call them, order by part number and you'll get the best price anywhere.(913) 884-5930I can't even begin to imagine anyone building a Piet, trying to save a couple bucks by buying hardware store stuff that they are going to trust their LIFE with??Stick with aircraft quality but save by buying from reliable sources like B&B Specialties.Amen On Jul 31, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:> >>>> I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible > alternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to > snoop. Found some surprises. For example, let's take the typical > 1/8" 7x19 aircraft cable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For > that, let's pick an AN/MS turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye > on one end and a fork on the other, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is > rated something a little over 2000 lbs. so it's a good match for > that cable.>> Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum > "screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that it > might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the > aluminum body and the minimal number of threads on the eyes that > engage the body. Move on to galvanized steel and the strength > improves to a couple of hundred pounds, still very affordable. Now > on to the better stuff and we find stainless steel turnbuckles, > which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engage > maybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and > also have a caution that the working load should not be exceeded. > Can you say "fails rather sharply"?>> The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot > more attractive but the strength is just not there without really > getting heavy. Is the aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working > loads? I don't know. I have not run any sort of analysis to > determine the aerodynamic loadings on any of them, but when we go > from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred, someone had better do > some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.>> I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things > against their working stresses before we substitute. Those > stainless turnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price > of AN/MS hardware, but I would have to assure myself that they could > handle the flight loads with at least a 2x factor of safety because > my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10 turnbuckle.>> Oscar Zuniga> Air Camper NX41CC> San Antonio, TX> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>>________________________________________________________________________________
Just back from EAAB & B Specialties is where I buy all my turnbuckles, all aircraft quality and with any type ends you want, the whole assembly costs about $10.00 each. Their prices are as little as 1/2 the price others in the same Fly Market are charging and their prices are the same all yr. around, not "Show Specials". They don't have a catalog but get part numbers out of AC/S, call them, order by part number and you'll get the best price anywhere.(913) 884-5930I can't even begin to imagine anyone building a Piet, trying to save a couple bucks by buying hardware store stuff that they are going to trust their LIFE with??Stick with aircraft quality but save by buying from reliable sources like B&B Specialties.Amen On Jul 31, 2008, at 9:13 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:> >>>> I got to thinking about "hardware store" turnbuckles as a possible > alternative to AN/MS hardware and paged over to McMaster-Carr to > snoop. Found some surprises. For example, let's take the typical > 1/8" 7x19 aircraft cable. It's rated at 2000 lbs. strength. For > that, let's pick an AN/MS turnbuckle with AN4 (1/4") threads, an eye > on one end and a fork on the other, roughly 4-1/2" long. It is > rated something a little over 2000 lbs. so it's a good match for > that cable.>> Searching "the hardware store", we start with open-body aluminum > "screen door" turnbuckles with 1/4" threaded eyes and find that it > might be rated a couple of hundred pounds, obviously due to the > aluminum body and the minimal number of threads on the eyes that > engage the body. Move on to galvanized steel and the strength > improves to a couple of hundred pounds, still very affordable. Now > on to the better stuff and we find stainless steel turnbuckles, > which are available in both open and closed body and seem to engage > maybe twice as many threads but are rated no more than 800 lbs. and > also have a caution that the working load should not be exceeded. > Can you say "fails rather sharply"?>> The cost of hardware store (or nautical/marine, I found) is a lot > more attractive but the strength is just not there without really > getting heavy. Is the aircraft hardware 'overkill' for the working > loads? I don't know. I have not run any sort of analysis to > determine the aerodynamic loadings on any of them, but when we go > from 2000 lbs. rating to a couple of hundred, someone had better do > some testing. Same goes for home-made tensioners.>> I'm all in favor of better mousetraps, but let's test these things > against their working stresses before we substitute. Those > stainless turnbuckles look great to me and are about 1/3 the price > of AN/MS hardware, but I would have to assure myself that they could > handle the flight loads with at least a 2x factor of safety because > my skinny a$$ is worth more than a $10 turnbuckle.>> Oscar Zuniga> Air Camper NX41CC> San Antonio, TX> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>>________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Michael: I have an older edition of WW's that had the drawing for the hub. There were some other drawings also, but I have filed them away and am unable to put my hands on them right now. It was always his thing that if you wanted to make your own he would go out of his way to assist you and many did and do now. If you are a person who doesn't have access to a machine shop or the time, he will sell you the parts, but he at least gives you the choice and nudges you in the direction of doing things yourself if you are wanting to try but not quite sure. Its not just the manual you are buying, but the help to the point of holding your hand if you need it. You probably won't, but it is good to know you have a plan B every now and then.dennis ----- Original Message -----
Michael: I have an older edition of WW's that had the drawing for the hub. There were some other drawings also, but I have filed them away and am unable to put my hands on them right now. It was always his thing that if you wanted to make your own he would go out of his way to assist you and many did and do now. If you are a person who doesn't have access to a machine shop or the time, he will sell you the parts, but he at least gives you the choice and nudges you in the direction of doing things yourself if you are wanting to try but not quite sure. Its not just the manual you are buying, but the help to the point of holding your hand if you need it. You probably won't, but it is good to know you have a plan B every now and then.dennis ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Load on the control cables cables is easy to calculateThe control stick is nothing more than a lever, I do not have the drawings in front of me, but let us assume a 1: 10 ratio (it is lower)Stick forces in my Pietenpol are fairly light, never measured it but my guess would be between 1- 3 pounds.But again lets assume a worst case scenario of 10 Lbs.That would be 10 x 10 = 100 Lbs of force on a cable rated for 2000. (1/8")One reason why I have 3/32 cable on my controls (rated for 1000 Lbs) to save weightIf you reverse the calculation I need to lean on the controls with more than 100 Lbs to break the cable.An air plane that needs 100+ Lbs at the stick to control it has something else wrong.Now why do we use cable that is rated 10 times load, simply because some unseen damage (corrosion or chafing) can reduce the cable strenght and you want enough left to save your butt.My 2 centsHans-----Original Message-----
Load on the control cables cables is easy to calculateThe control stick is nothing more than a lever, I do not have the drawings in front of me, but let us assume a 1: 10 ratio (it is lower)Stick forces in my Pietenpol are fairly light, never measured it but my guess would be between 1- 3 pounds.But again lets assume a worst case scenario of 10 Lbs.That would be 10 x 10 = 100 Lbs of force on a cable rated for 2000. (1/8")One reason why I have 3/32 cable on my controls (rated for 1000 Lbs) to save weightIf you reverse the calculation I need to lean on the controls with more than 100 Lbs to break the cable.An air plane that needs 100+ Lbs at the stick to control it has something else wrong.Now why do we use cable that is rated 10 times load, simply because some unseen damage (corrosion or chafing) can reduce the cable strenght and you want enough left to save your butt.My 2 centsHans-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: Bill Church
Bill,Dale Johnson built a pull tester for testing the cables on NX18235. We also used it to test some homemade turnbuckle barrels. Dale would be happy to do a test on one or more of your turnbuckles.Let me know if you are interested.Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message -----
Bill,Dale Johnson built a pull tester for testing the cables on NX18235. We also used it to test some homemade turnbuckle barrels. Dale would be happy to do a test on one or more of your turnbuckles.Let me know if you are interested.Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: Tim Willis
Has anyone talked with Frank Pavliga ? His Piet used 3/32 cable to cross anglesupport the cabanes, and had to keep tightening because of stretch, and replacedthem after a few hours of flight. Do other applications of 3/32 cable experiencethe same problem ? Don't chance it.Allen Rudolf's piet still flys with 1/8 Th" cables and the plane weights under640 Lbs. And will fly two people on a 90 Deg. day with a standard Ford A justturning 1950 RPM. Pieti Lowell[/quote]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:21:46 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Has anyone talked with Frank Pavliga ? His Piet used 3/32 cable to cross anglesupport the cabanes, and had to keep tightening because of stretch, and replacedthem after a few hours of flight. Do other applications of 3/32 cable experiencethe same problem ? Don't chance it.Allen Rudolf's piet still flys with 1/8 Th" cables and the plane weights under640 Lbs. And will fly two people on a 90 Deg. day with a standard Ford A justturning 1950 RPM. Pieti Lowell[/quote]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:21:46 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Tim,Now you've got me re-energized and ready to get back to work on theturnbuckle prototyping, with a new twist.I'm going to try making one from oatmeal cartons and stove bolts!Or not.Actually there's no need to make them stronger than A/C turnbuckles, justequal. But the use of higher strength materials (st.st. vs brass) couldallow for some weight savings, based on a strength to weight basis.Stainless steel will provide necessary corrosion resistance, like brass,since most of the turnbuckles are exposed to the elements. Using smaller tapdrills will definitely become a source of extreme frustration for anyoneworking with stainless steel, and the cost of broken taps will very quicklyexceed the cost of buying A/C turnbuckles.One feature that I have not yet figured out is a method to safety wire sucha homemade turnbuckle.I don't actually anticipate doing any further development on my prototypesuntil sometime later in the fall, when it gets too cold out in the garagefor epoxy to cure. When I have some results, I'll share them with the list.But that doesn't mean someone else can't go ahead with their own ideas /prototypes / testing.Bill C. -----Original Message-----
Tim,Now you've got me re-energized and ready to get back to work on theturnbuckle prototyping, with a new twist.I'm going to try making one from oatmeal cartons and stove bolts!Or not.Actually there's no need to make them stronger than A/C turnbuckles, justequal. But the use of higher strength materials (st.st. vs brass) couldallow for some weight savings, based on a strength to weight basis.Stainless steel will provide necessary corrosion resistance, like brass,since most of the turnbuckles are exposed to the elements. Using smaller tapdrills will definitely become a source of extreme frustration for anyoneworking with stainless steel, and the cost of broken taps will very quicklyexceed the cost of buying A/C turnbuckles.One feature that I have not yet figured out is a method to safety wire sucha homemade turnbuckle.I don't actually anticipate doing any further development on my prototypesuntil sometime later in the fall, when it gets too cold out in the garagefor epoxy to cure. When I have some results, I'll share them with the list.But that doesn't mean someone else can't go ahead with their own ideas /prototypes / testing.Bill C. -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Roll Call
Original Posted By: Ben Ramler
Chet,Have you:Set timing at 28 Deg ?Cleaned the casting out from the water inlet with a stiff wire ?Use a Ford T water pump in place of the A pump ?Check head gasket and H2O openings.in castings ?Radiator clean and large enough ?Auto fuel ?I run a Ford B supped- up to 90 HP and when it ran hot,In the water pump I foundone impeller of two broke off, welded it on, solved problem, I use a Funk pump,externally mounted, like the "T" pump, which I have used in the past withsuccess.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
Chet,Have you:Set timing at 28 Deg ?Cleaned the casting out from the water inlet with a stiff wire ?Use a Ford T water pump in place of the A pump ?Check head gasket and H2O openings.in castings ?Radiator clean and large enough ?Auto fuel ?I run a Ford B supped- up to 90 HP and when it ran hot,In the water pump I foundone impeller of two broke off, welded it on, solved problem, I use a Funk pump,externally mounted, like the "T" pump, which I have used in the past withsuccess.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 09:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Original Posted By: John Franklin
Ben,Check the plans, the ailerons are built integral with the wing and cut out after you have completed building & trammeling the wing. I'm not there yet, but maybe someone else on the list can expain the process.Kip GardnerOn Aug 5, 2008, at 12:20 PM, Ben Ramler wrote:> >> Afternoon Group,> Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the > ribs need to be set aside for the ailerons?> 73,> Ben in MN>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:58:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Ben,Check the plans, the ailerons are built integral with the wing and cut out after you have completed building & trammeling the wing. I'm not there yet, but maybe someone else on the list can expain the process.Kip GardnerOn Aug 5, 2008, at 12:20 PM, Ben Ramler wrote:> >> Afternoon Group,> Here's a question... Once all 31 ribs are made how many of the > ribs need to be set aside for the ailerons?> 73,> Ben in MN>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 11:58:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A mag timingLowell,I have my mags set to 30 degrees, per what Ken Perkins recommends. What do you think? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/ ... 0000000017 )________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and aileronsDate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:03:57 -0400
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A mag timingLowell,I have my mags set to 30 degrees, per what Ken Perkins recommends. What do you think? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/ ... 0000000017 )________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: ribs and aileronsDate: Tue, 5 Aug 2008 13:03:57 -0400
Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Original Posted By: "Rick Holland"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
NX18235 has 3/32 cables bracing the cabanes. No adjustments needed in 140 hours of flying.Greg----- Original Message -----
NX18235 has 3/32 cables bracing the cabanes. No adjustments needed in 140 hours of flying.Greg----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: "Gene & Tammy"
I've seen the following idea used to save money on turnbuckles. The turnbuckles for the cross bracing inside the wing are eliminated.This is done by preloading the cables before crimping the nicopress. The wing is first trammeled. Then the first end of the cable is installed as normal. The second end of the cable is run through the nicopress=2C around the thimble and back through the nicopress. It then continues about half way towards the first end. At this point it passes over a pulley and down through a hole in the table that the wing is on. At the end of the cable hang weights to tension the cable. Both cables in a pair are setup like this. When everything is set the second nicopress is crimed and the excess cable is cut off. No turnbuckles needed. The down side is that you have to replace the cables to re trammel the wing but I don't think this is done very often. Marc_________________________________________________________________Get Windows Live and get whatever you need=2C wherever you are. Start here.http://www.windowslive.com/default.html ... __________
I've seen the following idea used to save money on turnbuckles. The turnbuckles for the cross bracing inside the wing are eliminated.This is done by preloading the cables before crimping the nicopress. The wing is first trammeled. Then the first end of the cable is installed as normal. The second end of the cable is run through the nicopress=2C around the thimble and back through the nicopress. It then continues about half way towards the first end. At this point it passes over a pulley and down through a hole in the table that the wing is on. At the end of the cable hang weights to tension the cable. Both cables in a pair are setup like this. When everything is set the second nicopress is crimed and the excess cable is cut off. No turnbuckles needed. The down side is that you have to replace the cables to re trammel the wing but I don't think this is done very often. Marc_________________________________________________________________Get Windows Live and get whatever you need=2C wherever you are. Start here.http://www.windowslive.com/default.html ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs and ailerons
Original Posted By: "Ben Ramler"
Ben, I thought you came to this list to learn and get advice? If you only came to hear what you want to hear, then maybe you would be better going elsewhere. The builders here were asked for their advice and they gave it. They didn't blast you at all. I've belonged to this groug for several years and have yet seen anyone blast anybody. I have seen an outstanding exchange of ideas. When I first came to the group "I" thought one of the old timers was blasting me. Others set me straight and the "old timer" (sorry Corky) has been a mentor and a friend.If you stick around, you just might learn a thing or two AND make some great mentors/friends.Gene in Tennessee having a great time flying N502R (sure glad I didn't let false pride get in my way and I stuck around)----- Original Message -----
Ben, I thought you came to this list to learn and get advice? If you only came to hear what you want to hear, then maybe you would be better going elsewhere. The builders here were asked for their advice and they gave it. They didn't blast you at all. I've belonged to this groug for several years and have yet seen anyone blast anybody. I have seen an outstanding exchange of ideas. When I first came to the group "I" thought one of the old timers was blasting me. Others set me straight and the "old timer" (sorry Corky) has been a mentor and a friend.If you stick around, you just might learn a thing or two AND make some great mentors/friends.Gene in Tennessee having a great time flying N502R (sure glad I didn't let false pride get in my way and I stuck around)----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade Turnbuckles
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade TurnbucklesSorry Jack for the lateness in catching up post-Brodeah/post-OshkoshTurnbuckles... uh that would be a firm NO at this time, too many fussy operations for too small a return on the time invested.... plus probably too many "advisors" on this one thank you =) Its not that we mind helpful input from experienced builders, just there are some items that will illicit as many variations as respondents and by the time you incorporate everyone's wish lists the very next question asked is "why is it soexpensive?".For the time being we'll stick to custom fabbed hardware and not compete with products you can buy off the shelf.It was a pleasure meeting everyone at Brodhead and we look forward to next year!Regards, Chrissi & RandiCG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardwarewww.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turboPlans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details=============================== In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:35:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Maybe this would be an area for the CozyGirrrls to make some parts.There are several dozen turnbuckles required to build a Pietenpol, andthey could offer a turnbuckle kit.Jack PhillipsNX899JP-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Homemade TurnbucklesSorry Jack for the lateness in catching up post-Brodeah/post-OshkoshTurnbuckles... uh that would be a firm NO at this time, too many fussy operations for too small a return on the time invested.... plus probably too many "advisors" on this one thank you =) Its not that we mind helpful input from experienced builders, just there are some items that will illicit as many variations as respondents and by the time you incorporate everyone's wish lists the very next question asked is "why is it soexpensive?".For the time being we'll stick to custom fabbed hardware and not compete with products you can buy off the shelf.It was a pleasure meeting everyone at Brodhead and we look forward to next year!Regards, Chrissi & RandiCG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardwarewww.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turboPlans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details=============================== In a message dated 8/5/2008 9:35:58 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" Maybe this would be an area for the CozyGirrrls to make some parts.There are several dozen turnbuckles required to build a Pietenpol, andthey could offer a turnbuckle kit.Jack PhillipsNX899JP-----Original Message-----