Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Pietenpol-List: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and lettingkids sit in the cockpitNobody in either my extended family or my wife's extended family flies or has flown.It's something I wanted to do, so I did it (against the very vocalized fearsof my parents at the time, by the way). Having family that understands ithelps.I met my wife long after I was rated. She knew flying came as part of the packageand has never discouraged my flying (my mother, on the other hand, still thinksI'm partially suicidal, even 20+ years later). The number of times she'sbeen in a plane with me I think I can count on one hand. She actually prefersgliders over power planes, mostly because of the lack of noise. I've also giverides to my father and my brother, but never my mother or sisters, at least yet.My experience with the attitude of the non-flying (spouse, stranger or whoever)towards flying is that it's all about familiarity. The media and the movies havedone boatloads of disservice to flying by playing on people's fears to makea quick buck. I recall an accident (a crash, one plane, IIRC) at a non-controlledfield. The widely-circulated local paper wrote up a less than factual article,including a totally irrelevant statement that there was no ATC at the field.Several people came to me in shocked disbelief about how awful it was therewas no controller on site, which was an echo of the tone of the article. Iasked them how they managed to live while operating their cars at intersectionswith only stop signs, then explained there are commonly-understood proceduresfor uncontrolled fields, just like at those intersections. I've iterated similarcircumstances countless times with slightly varying themes, and the lightsusually go on after a reasonable explanation. I r! esent having to 'undo' the ignorant fear these people have propagated, but I doit. On the other side of the fence, rarely does anybody report or make moviesabout the emergency landings and procedures that don't end in fire, death, ormajor property damage. Granted, I've never reported the emergencies I've had,but even if it does get reported, it just doesn't sell. Nobody cares that mycarburetor had problems and I made a dead-stick landing at an airport, fixedthe problem, and flew out.I hate to say it, but some pilots propagate this ignorance, too. They seem to likethe image the ignorant have of the pilot being some kind of mystic daredevil(You're a ...... PILOT?!?, Wow!), and taking the mystique out of it might riskthem being reduced to mere mortal status. I prefer to think of myself as onewho's been priveleged with the resources to allow me to fly, has assessed therisks versus the rewards, and made the commitment. I guess I don't see it asa Wow! kinda thing, just something I enjoy doing while others are out maybeboating or motorcycling.People don't understand we've been trained to assess the risks and make decisionsin emergency situations, because they've rarely, if ever, done it for themselves.I live near the top of a hill. My road comes to a T at the bottom, so inthe winter if the road is icy, there's a chance of not being able to stop andgoing into oncoming traffic. I've told my wife I'd rather she controllably putthe car in the ditch (or bounce off the snow-bank) on the right side, ratherthan getting t-boned on the highway (I had to do it for the first time oncelast winter). This has given her a better concept of situational awareness thanshe had before. I wish they required this kind of stuff to get a driver's license,but that wouldn't fly with the politicians.My wife used to be a white-knuckle passenger. When I met her, she had been on atotal of two commercial flights (one trip), and never in a small plane. I'd flownfor several years at that point, and had probably averaged anywhere from2 to maybe 12 commercial trips a year for either business or pleasure. Now sheaverages a couple commercial trips a year and has learned to sleep on them. Samething with her sister (who's first commercial flight was a couple days before9/11, and ended up driving home when the airspace was shut down and a mess).She's on a plane for a trip from NY to Yellowstone as I write. And she sleepson the plane now. The ignorance and fear are gone. My wife will never be one to learn to fly herself, but her understanding of itmakes it easier for her to be supportive, and allows her to participate in itwith me with minimal stress.Jim Ash-----Original Message----->From: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com>Sent: Jun 21, 2008 7:57 AM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying spouse and letting kids sit in the cockpit>>John, I read the post too, and wasn't sure I wanted to admit my wife is same>as yours. Only difference is I'm building a Mustang II. She shows no >interest in the project, and even though I tried to express to her the time and>money we had to contribute to build the plane, and she agreed to it, I find now>she's not OK with it. But what do you do when you're thousands of dollars into>something. Can't stop now, cause I'll never recoup the money I have in it if>I sell it in pieces. I'd be lucky if I sold a flying plane, never mind parts>of a plane! > But, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. We have three young >children, and my hope is that they will have an interest in flying. We'll >just leave mom at home and off to the beach we go!>Boyce>N920BS reserved>Mustang II>>>**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for >fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP"
then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it atabout 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be builtin a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of the onepiece wing), and is economical to build and fly.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ==0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:42:00 -0700 (PDT)
then what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it atabout 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be builtin a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of the onepiece wing), and is economical to build and fly.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ==0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 13:42:00 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
I want to add a baggage compartment to the pietenpol. I was thinking of positingit behind the pilot's seat (door accessible from the outside), but that mightthrow the CG off too much, right? How far back would the CG move with 60 lbsdirectly behind the pilot?The second idea I got was to use wing tanks, and make the location for baggagethe area behind the engine where a fuel tank would usually be, but I'm kind ofweary of using wing tanks because with the lack of height there could be fuelstarvation problems (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'd also have to put a fuelgauge on the panel because I couldn't do a J-3 style gauge.The other idea was to partition some of the area on the floor of the two cabinswith some plywood to hold stuff so that I can have access to stuff (maps andcharts) in flight and then the stuff can be stored in there as well for the baggage,but that would have to be pretty restricted to all full control and footmovement (and comfort)I could do a combination of the three, so that the weights could be balanced outa bit to avoid movement of the CG. Ideas? comments?that's forward, aft, and in cabin storage, so I think that is all there could beright? I don't want to do wing because of the restrictions on height (how thickis the wing anyways?)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I want to add a baggage compartment to the pietenpol. I was thinking of positingit behind the pilot's seat (door accessible from the outside), but that mightthrow the CG off too much, right? How far back would the CG move with 60 lbsdirectly behind the pilot?The second idea I got was to use wing tanks, and make the location for baggagethe area behind the engine where a fuel tank would usually be, but I'm kind ofweary of using wing tanks because with the lack of height there could be fuelstarvation problems (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'd also have to put a fuelgauge on the panel because I couldn't do a J-3 style gauge.The other idea was to partition some of the area on the floor of the two cabinswith some plywood to hold stuff so that I can have access to stuff (maps andcharts) in flight and then the stuff can be stored in there as well for the baggage,but that would have to be pretty restricted to all full control and footmovement (and comfort)I could do a combination of the three, so that the weights could be balanced outa bit to avoid movement of the CG. Ideas? comments?that's forward, aft, and in cabin storage, so I think that is all there could beright? I don't want to do wing because of the restrictions on height (how thickis the wing anyways?)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting
Original Posted By: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
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Re: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: shad bell
________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:19:54 -0700 (PDT)
________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:19:54 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: Pastor M F Townsley
Re: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and duffle in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of ideas on the flight line.Dick----- Original Message -----
How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and duffle in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of ideas on the flight line.Dick----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "Rick Holland"
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By:
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartmentthen what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it atabout 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be builtin a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of theone piece wing), and is economical to build and fly.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartmentthen what plane would you recommend that meets LSA, is all wood, cruises it atabout 85-100 mph (more would be good, but I really just want 85+), can be builtin a garage (unfortunately, that eliminates the jodel designs because of theone piece wing), and is economical to build and fly.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: rubber314chicken
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartmentThat is the $40.00 question.... In my application, I have made the pietenpol wider for my dimensions and for myweight. Being 6'0" and in good shape (270lbs) I have made someforward changesformy W/B calculations. For example, my tank is header designed with 10-12 gallonsand 5/32 aluminum which will help offset some of my weight. as for my frontcockpit, Greg has it right on the money.....removable forward stick and disconnectrudder pedals for some storage with no passenger for my flying demands.So, use the 6 P's before you decide to dive into the project and find out lateron this is not the plane for you....(Piss poor planning = piss poor performance)...orsomething like that... Please take no offense as these post are only an "opinion" and not to distractnor chase away anyone who seeks to build a pietenpol. Besides.....I am the sitesonly village idiot and my questions have many pondering for days....even years....Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --- On Sun, 6/22/08, rubber314chicken wrote:
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartmentThat is the $40.00 question.... In my application, I have made the pietenpol wider for my dimensions and for myweight. Being 6'0" and in good shape (270lbs) I have made someforward changesformy W/B calculations. For example, my tank is header designed with 10-12 gallonsand 5/32 aluminum which will help offset some of my weight. as for my frontcockpit, Greg has it right on the money.....removable forward stick and disconnectrudder pedals for some storage with no passenger for my flying demands.So, use the 6 P's before you decide to dive into the project and find out lateron this is not the plane for you....(Piss poor planning = piss poor performance)...orsomething like that... Please take no offense as these post are only an "opinion" and not to distractnor chase away anyone who seeks to build a pietenpol. Besides.....I am the sitesonly village idiot and my questions have many pondering for days....even years....Kenneth M. Heide, BA, CPO, FAAOP --- On Sun, 6/22/08, rubber314chicken wrote:
Re: Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
Adding 60 lbs. behind the pilot seat will move the cg substantially. On NX18235 the cg change would be more than 2.5".Putting fuel in the center section is a good idea for two reasons. It puts the fuel weight close to the cg and it raises the fuel pressure at the carburetor.As Shad commented, a Stearman type fuel guage works well.Making the front stick removable and disconnecting the front rudder pedals turns the front cockpit into a very large baggage compartment.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Adding 60 lbs. behind the pilot seat will move the cg substantially. On NX18235 the cg change would be more than 2.5".Putting fuel in the center section is a good idea for two reasons. It puts the fuel weight close to the cg and it raises the fuel pressure at the carburetor.As Shad commented, a Stearman type fuel guage works well.Making the front stick removable and disconnecting the front rudder pedals turns the front cockpit into a very large baggage compartment.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
JimWell stated and written. As a safety professional for more than 35 years and anactive enthuiast of downhill skiing,motorcycling,boating and a pilot. My careerand life has revolved around risk mitigation. At one point I also worked asa set safety consultant and still do at times for high risk TV shows. The truth of the matter is that people have little comprehension of risk mitigationand a term I have coined as predictive thinking as 2 of the cornerstons oflife safety. Daredevil couldn't be further from the truth it is infact morethe perception than the realityJohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
JimWell stated and written. As a safety professional for more than 35 years and anactive enthuiast of downhill skiing,motorcycling,boating and a pilot. My careerand life has revolved around risk mitigation. At one point I also worked asa set safety consultant and still do at times for high risk TV shows. The truth of the matter is that people have little comprehension of risk mitigationand a term I have coined as predictive thinking as 2 of the cornerstons oflife safety. Daredevil couldn't be further from the truth it is infact morethe perception than the realityJohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
Original Posted By: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote:> How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and duffle> in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of ideas > on the flight line.> Dick> ---that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not like I canthrow it in the front cockpit.and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are not goingto be front rudder pedals for weight reasons (and unless they have a license,I wouldn't want them to be trying slips and stuff in the plane), so that is spacethat can be used.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote:> How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, and duffle> in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots of ideas > on the flight line.> Dick> ---that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not like I canthrow it in the front cockpit.and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are not goingto be front rudder pedals for weight reasons (and unless they have a license,I wouldn't want them to be trying slips and stuff in the plane), so that is spacethat can be used.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spousal support (long) / was flying spouse and letting
Original Posted By: Tim Willis
________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:36:58 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:36:58 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartmentBaggage is a problem. If you are planning on a passenger, full fuel and 60pounds of baggage, you need a different plane, for several reasons:1. That is going to put you at a high gross weight. When Chuck Gantzerflies cross-country, he disconnects all controls in the front and carefully stows his baggage. Still, he limitshis load to about 25 pounds, for improved flying. 2. Generally, in a Piet, it's either a passenger OR baggage. However, asyou know, the design allows you to have baggage either in the center wing top or in the space right behind thefirewall-- wherever you do NOT have a fuel tank. Anything else is a stretch.3. Your passenger can only have so much around him or her. How would thepassenger get in and out with baggage underfoot? It's hard enough without encumberances. 4. Greg is right about the CG. Anything behind the pilot is in the wrongplace. I am trying to accommodate 6 more pounds for a pair of boots back there, and the math does not work well forme. 5. Greg didn't mention space. Your baggage, if behind the pilot, has tobe stowed to miss pulleys, control rods or tubes, bellcranks, cables, etc., and make SURE it always does. You willwant to be able to look at all these things for inspection, so your baggage stowage compartment needs to come apart. Webbing is one answer. An inspection door that hinges down from under the fuze is another. Corky did that onOscar's plane, and I plan that, too. 6. You can stow things like maps, gloves, logbook, etc., several places,but a tent, sleeping bag, sutcase, etc., are mostly ruled out if a passenger is involved.Tim in central TX-----Original Message----->From: rubber314chicken >Sent: Jun 22, 2008 11:08 AM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment>>>>horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote:>> How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, andduffle >> in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots ofideas >> on the flight line.>> Dick>> --->>>that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not likeI can throw it in the front cockpit.>>and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are notgoing to be front rudder pedals for weight reasons (and unless they have a license, I wouldn't want them to betrying slips and stuff in the plane), so that is space that can be used.>>>Read this topic online here:>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... osting.com - Premium Microsoft Windows and Linux web and applicationhosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting____ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartmentBaggage is a problem. If you are planning on a passenger, full fuel and 60pounds of baggage, you need a different plane, for several reasons:1. That is going to put you at a high gross weight. When Chuck Gantzerflies cross-country, he disconnects all controls in the front and carefully stows his baggage. Still, he limitshis load to about 25 pounds, for improved flying. 2. Generally, in a Piet, it's either a passenger OR baggage. However, asyou know, the design allows you to have baggage either in the center wing top or in the space right behind thefirewall-- wherever you do NOT have a fuel tank. Anything else is a stretch.3. Your passenger can only have so much around him or her. How would thepassenger get in and out with baggage underfoot? It's hard enough without encumberances. 4. Greg is right about the CG. Anything behind the pilot is in the wrongplace. I am trying to accommodate 6 more pounds for a pair of boots back there, and the math does not work well forme. 5. Greg didn't mention space. Your baggage, if behind the pilot, has tobe stowed to miss pulleys, control rods or tubes, bellcranks, cables, etc., and make SURE it always does. You willwant to be able to look at all these things for inspection, so your baggage stowage compartment needs to come apart. Webbing is one answer. An inspection door that hinges down from under the fuze is another. Corky did that onOscar's plane, and I plan that, too. 6. You can stow things like maps, gloves, logbook, etc., several places,but a tent, sleeping bag, sutcase, etc., are mostly ruled out if a passenger is involved.Tim in central TX-----Original Message----->From: rubber314chicken >Sent: Jun 22, 2008 11:08 AM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment>>>>horzpool(at)goldengate.ne wrote:>> How much are you planning on carrying?I fit a tent, sleeping bag, andduffle >> in the front cockpit. Look around at Brodhead, you will find lots ofideas >> on the flight line.>> Dick>> --->>>that is about what I plan on carrying, but for two people, so its not likeI can throw it in the front cockpit.>>and fyi, I planned on making the front stick removable, and there are notgoing to be front rudder pedals for weight reasons (and unless they have a license, I wouldn't want them to betrying slips and stuff in the plane), so that is space that can be used.>>>Read this topic online here:>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... osting.com - Premium Microsoft Windows and Linux web and applicationhosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting____ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: Tim Willis timothywillis(at)earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartmentTim. Very good post. I agree, he needs a different airplane. GeneN502ROriginal Message:-----------------
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartmentTim. Very good post. I agree, he needs a different airplane. GeneN502ROriginal Message:-----------------
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP"
Ken,I. Like the 6 Ps concept... I think I spend the majority of my build time in theplanning phase trying desperately not to screw it up!JohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
Ken,I. Like the 6 Ps concept... I think I spend the majority of my build time in theplanning phase trying desperately not to screw it up!JohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "=?utf-8?B?Sm9obiBSZWNpbmU=?="
Well, doing some math, being very conservative in estimates (such as spruce being50lbs/ft^3 and so forth) I came out with a useful load of 460, which wouldallow for two 170 lb people, 12 gallons of gas, and then 40 lbs on to of that.I think with some more careful thought and planning I might be able to makethis work.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Well, doing some math, being very conservative in estimates (such as spruce being50lbs/ft^3 and so forth) I came out with a useful load of 460, which wouldallow for two 170 lb people, 12 gallons of gas, and then 40 lbs on to of that.I think with some more careful thought and planning I might be able to makethis work.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
One idea for baggage that I have seen used on the Fly-Baby is a cylindricalpod type satchel that attaches to the bottom of the fuselage at CG like adrop tank. The Fly-Baby design of this pod provides enough room for anovernight bag.I have seen items like a prop bough at a fly-market carried lashed to thelift struts snug up to the fuselage on parasol wing aircraft. I suppose ifsome one was smart you could create some sort of cylindrical tube stuffed w/your bare essentials lashed to the struts in this manner.As for the Jodel, have you looked at the Falconar F-11-3?http://members.shaw.ca/falconark/FA/f11 ... es.htmThis is a Chris Falconar variant of the Jodel D-11 by . It will fly nicelyon 65 hp. The F11-3 is a folding wing version of the D-11. And though manyreport the trouble of the complexity of the folding wing mechanism not worththe hassle it is a way to build the wing in sections. Some have done thisand only upon completion did they delete the folding wing mechanism and madethe outer panels fixed. Falconar' variant is also easier to build than theoriginal Jodel as the wing washout built in to the spar in the Jodel isaccomplished in the Falconar via rib placement on a straight box spar.Michael SilviusFalconar F-12 w/ Mazda rotary in progress----- Original Message -----
One idea for baggage that I have seen used on the Fly-Baby is a cylindricalpod type satchel that attaches to the bottom of the fuselage at CG like adrop tank. The Fly-Baby design of this pod provides enough room for anovernight bag.I have seen items like a prop bough at a fly-market carried lashed to thelift struts snug up to the fuselage on parasol wing aircraft. I suppose ifsome one was smart you could create some sort of cylindrical tube stuffed w/your bare essentials lashed to the struts in this manner.As for the Jodel, have you looked at the Falconar F-11-3?http://members.shaw.ca/falconark/FA/f11 ... es.htmThis is a Chris Falconar variant of the Jodel D-11 by . It will fly nicelyon 65 hp. The F11-3 is a folding wing version of the D-11. And though manyreport the trouble of the complexity of the folding wing mechanism not worththe hassle it is a way to build the wing in sections. Some have done thisand only upon completion did they delete the folding wing mechanism and madethe outer panels fixed. Falconar' variant is also easier to build than theoriginal Jodel as the wing washout built in to the spar in the Jodel isaccomplished in the Falconar via rib placement on a straight box spar.Michael SilviusFalconar F-12 w/ Mazda rotary in progress----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
silvius(at)gwi.net wrote:> Fly-Baby baggage pod> > http://www.bowersflybaby.com/bowers/a2a.jpg> > Michaelthanks for the pic.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
silvius(at)gwi.net wrote:> Fly-Baby baggage pod> > http://www.bowersflybaby.com/bowers/a2a.jpg> > Michaelthanks for the pic.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "G. Robert Stetson"
silvius(at)gwi.net wrote:> Center section baggage as shown in this photo?> > it has been done before.> > MichaelI'm just curios about how big the space would be... what is the height of the spars,and the maximum height in the wing?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:21:47 -0400
silvius(at)gwi.net wrote:> Center section baggage as shown in this photo?> > it has been done before.> > MichaelI'm just curios about how big the space would be... what is the height of the spars,and the maximum height in the wing?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:21:47 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "Michael Silvius"
Fly-Baby baggage podhttp://www.bowersflybaby.com/bowers/a2a.jpgMic ... __________
Fly-Baby baggage podhttp://www.bowersflybaby.com/bowers/a2a.jpgMic ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
Center section baggage as shown in this photo?it has been done before.Michael________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Center section baggage as shown in this photo?it has been done before.Michael________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
Don't have the number in front of me but I am guessing front spar is 4&1/2to 5 inches tall. ( my plans are for the Grega)the attached photos should give you a notion of capacity.if a fellow can't get what he needs in that space for a trip he might aswell buy an airline ticket.Michael----- Original Message -----
Don't have the number in front of me but I am guessing front spar is 4&1/2to 5 inches tall. ( my plans are for the Grega)the attached photos should give you a notion of capacity.if a fellow can't get what he needs in that space for a trip he might aswell buy an airline ticket.Michael----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
I have been dreading this, but it's time that I put my Piet NX2RN up for sale. I will be posting it on Barnstormers later in the week after re checking everything. My new Piet now has over 30 hours on it and I just cant fly 2 at once. I am pricing at $12,500. This is the short fuse w/ A-65. Plane is based at Osceola, Wi. OEO I will have details assembled in the next couple of days. Anyone interested can find me at horzpool(at)goldengate.net or call 651-638-0793Dick N________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
I have been dreading this, but it's time that I put my Piet NX2RN up for sale. I will be posting it on Barnstormers later in the week after re checking everything. My new Piet now has over 30 hours on it and I just cant fly 2 at once. I am pricing at $12,500. This is the short fuse w/ A-65. Plane is based at Osceola, Wi. OEO I will have details assembled in the next couple of days. Anyone interested can find me at horzpool(at)goldengate.net or call 651-638-0793Dick N________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Pietenpol-List: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
I'm not sure what everyone else's weight and balance sheets look like, but I'lldiscuss the one for 41CC relative to baggage and I will also offer to run "what-ifs"with the Excel spreadsheet for my airplane in various configurations.1. Almost any combination of pilot and passenger that will physically be able tostuff themselves into the cockpits, will be able to fly. Slightly more of aproblem if a really large person manages to stuff into the rear cockpit, butthe front passenger is virtually on the CG and makes little or no difference inCG, although they do affect gross weight. With that being said, your best betin carrying baggage is to put it in the front cockpit. Hands down. With myweight of 150 lbs. in the rear cockpit, I can put at least that amount of baggagein the front cockpit with no worries, if I can fit it in there. Which Idoubt that I can do ;o) But if I could secure it in the front cockpit, I couldcarry a pop tent, duffel bag, and some other gear for a couple of days to maybea week's trip with no problems whatsoever.2. Anything aft of the rear seat is going to be problematic. Most Piets are tailheavy to begin with unless they have a nice heavy engine up front, and addingbaggage aft of the rear seat is tricky. I think Corky did the initial W&Bon 41CC with a max of 15 lbs. of baggage (in the helmet box behind the rear seat),but since the rebuild and repairs all I have back there is a seatback pouchfor a spare helmet and goggles, a few small tools, and my traveling papers-maybe two pounds. I can't fit anything more than that back there and don't wantto, except maybe a quart or two of oil.3. If you put the fuel in the wing, either in wing tank(s) or centersection tank,you'll have a great setup. The area ahead of the front cockpit "instrumentpanel" is where my fuel tank is, but if there were no fuel tank there I couldfit the equivalent of 16 gallons of fuel there... certainly enough weight andprobably enough volume to hold some camping gear and a duffel bag, even witha passenger. It's a large space and could be made to fit a lot of stuff.4. If you don't want to put the fuel in the wings, build a wing locker or two andplan on carrying a step ladder or something like it to get up in there.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 00:07:24 -0700
I'm not sure what everyone else's weight and balance sheets look like, but I'lldiscuss the one for 41CC relative to baggage and I will also offer to run "what-ifs"with the Excel spreadsheet for my airplane in various configurations.1. Almost any combination of pilot and passenger that will physically be able tostuff themselves into the cockpits, will be able to fly. Slightly more of aproblem if a really large person manages to stuff into the rear cockpit, butthe front passenger is virtually on the CG and makes little or no difference inCG, although they do affect gross weight. With that being said, your best betin carrying baggage is to put it in the front cockpit. Hands down. With myweight of 150 lbs. in the rear cockpit, I can put at least that amount of baggagein the front cockpit with no worries, if I can fit it in there. Which Idoubt that I can do ;o) But if I could secure it in the front cockpit, I couldcarry a pop tent, duffel bag, and some other gear for a couple of days to maybea week's trip with no problems whatsoever.2. Anything aft of the rear seat is going to be problematic. Most Piets are tailheavy to begin with unless they have a nice heavy engine up front, and addingbaggage aft of the rear seat is tricky. I think Corky did the initial W&Bon 41CC with a max of 15 lbs. of baggage (in the helmet box behind the rear seat),but since the rebuild and repairs all I have back there is a seatback pouchfor a spare helmet and goggles, a few small tools, and my traveling papers-maybe two pounds. I can't fit anything more than that back there and don't wantto, except maybe a quart or two of oil.3. If you put the fuel in the wing, either in wing tank(s) or centersection tank,you'll have a great setup. The area ahead of the front cockpit "instrumentpanel" is where my fuel tank is, but if there were no fuel tank there I couldfit the equivalent of 16 gallons of fuel there... certainly enough weight andprobably enough volume to hold some camping gear and a duffel bag, even witha passenger. It's a large space and could be made to fit a lot of stuff.4. If you don't want to put the fuel in the wings, build a wing locker or two andplan on carrying a step ladder or something like it to get up in there.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 00:07:24 -0700
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Pietenpol-List:
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXC0)[ASRC]"
Poth? Poth! That's just outside of San Antonio and not too goshawful far fromCannon Field, home of the Liaison Pilots Association.I've never seen "The Great Waldo Pepper" but I guess I should rent it one of thesedays...Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:07:02 -0500
Poth? Poth! That's just outside of San Antonio and not too goshawful far fromCannon Field, home of the Liaison Pilots Association.I've never seen "The Great Waldo Pepper" but I guess I should rent it one of thesedays...Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:07:02 -0500
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo PepperI see a trend emerging, as we have Jim Markle as the unofficial, official Pietenpol ambassador, we are once again graced with the fine works of John Hofmann as TGWP officinado, truly and expert in his field. John, you do great work, I look forward to meeting you next month. Your commentary of last night certainly brought laughter to my tired worn and weary self.I for one applaud you knowledge and greater than appropriate application ofTGWP to the occasion.Thanks John a real pleasure to watch a master of the art for at work.Is that all you intend to do for the rest of your life is rides for cash? John In a message dated 6/23/2008 10:15:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com writes:I too was shocked to read of Oscar's plight. I mean does he not know that =9CSome people would say that what you are about to see, is probably the greatest exhibition of aeronautical skill in the history of world. I myself, wouldn=99t go that far. It is probably only the greatest since the invention of the aeroplane.=9D Axel Olsson - The Stunt KingJohn HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800Madison, WI 53718Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: _jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com_ (mailto:jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com) On Jun 23, 2008, at 8:11 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXC0)[ASRC] wrote:Oscar, I read with utter amazement and disillusionment that you admitted tohaving neverseen The Great Waldo Pepper ? Your life will not be complete until yousee that. You can find cheap DVD copies on Amazon. Mike C. - The --> _http://www.matr &n - &nbs --> http://www.matronics.com/co================_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo PepperI see a trend emerging, as we have Jim Markle as the unofficial, official Pietenpol ambassador, we are once again graced with the fine works of John Hofmann as TGWP officinado, truly and expert in his field. John, you do great work, I look forward to meeting you next month. Your commentary of last night certainly brought laughter to my tired worn and weary self.I for one applaud you knowledge and greater than appropriate application ofTGWP to the occasion.Thanks John a real pleasure to watch a master of the art for at work.Is that all you intend to do for the rest of your life is rides for cash? John In a message dated 6/23/2008 10:15:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com writes:I too was shocked to read of Oscar's plight. I mean does he not know that =9CSome people would say that what you are about to see, is probably the greatest exhibition of aeronautical skill in the history of world. I myself, wouldn=99t go that far. It is probably only the greatest since the invention of the aeroplane.=9D Axel Olsson - The Stunt KingJohn HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800Madison, WI 53718Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: _jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com_ (mailto:jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.com) On Jun 23, 2008, at 8:11 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXC0)[ASRC] wrote:Oscar, I read with utter amazement and disillusionment that you admitted tohaving neverseen The Great Waldo Pepper ? Your life will not be complete until yousee that. You can find cheap DVD copies on Amazon. Mike C. - The --> _http://www.matr &n - &nbs --> http://www.matronics.com/co================_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca wrote:> 50lb??!! Spruce is officialy listed at 31 lb/cubic foot.> Western Hemlock-29, Douglas Fir-34. Those are> three of a fairly long list of useable woods.> > Clif> I know, but I also wanted to add in for unknowns, variations in the wood, and T-88used.and Jack, I'm seeing 100 as max level speed, sou wouldn't 85 be resonable at soloweight? and I was expecting a bit of a drop at gross, but not down to 65ish.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca wrote:> 50lb??!! Spruce is officialy listed at 31 lb/cubic foot.> Western Hemlock-29, Douglas Fir-34. Those are> three of a fairly long list of useable woods.> > Clif> I know, but I also wanted to add in for unknowns, variations in the wood, and T-88used.and Jack, I'm seeing 100 as max level speed, sou wouldn't 85 be resonable at soloweight? and I was expecting a bit of a drop at gross, but not down to 65ish.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
Jack,No comments about the color of your hair, but what the heck were you wipingall over the front of your workbench? Grecian formula perhaps?By the way, I used the same method of shimming the various thicknesses ofspar, leading and trailing edges in the jig. I think maybe I'll add some ofthose rib blocks between the capstrips. Probably not really necessary, butthe capstrips do have a bit of flex, as-is.Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Jack,No comments about the color of your hair, but what the heck were you wipingall over the front of your workbench? Grecian formula perhaps?By the way, I used the same method of shimming the various thicknesses ofspar, leading and trailing edges in the jig. I think maybe I'll add some ofthose rib blocks between the capstrips. Probably not really necessary, butthe capstrips do have a bit of flex, as-is.Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Size of longerons and tailbrace wiresBill,I was inspecting very closely that "Last Original" because to me, that is the "final word" on acceptable design standards by the master himself. Based onwhat I saw, I am still planning to use 1/16" cable on the tail feathers (unless I chicken out and use 3/32"). Does anyone have an opinion on this? Withsome anecdotal or actual evidence? Obviously this airplane has been flying forquite sometime with no ill affects. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Size of longerons and tailbrace wiresBill,I was inspecting very closely that "Last Original" because to me, that is the "final word" on acceptable design standards by the master himself. Based onwhat I saw, I am still planning to use 1/16" cable on the tail feathers (unless I chicken out and use 3/32"). Does anyone have an opinion on this? Withsome anecdotal or actual evidence? Obviously this airplane has been flying forquite sometime with no ill affects. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "Robert Gow"
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: John Hofmann
From Gardiner Mason (airlion)Jack, I am planning to fly my cessna 140 to Brodhead Leaving Lagrange, Ga.on July 23. Maybe we can meet up. Cheers, Gardiner MasonIf you can read "raw source" of his messages, you can see what he is writing.-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800Madison, WI 53718Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Jun 23, 2008, at 1:41 PM, airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote:>>________________________________________________________________________________
From Gardiner Mason (airlion)Jack, I am planning to fly my cessna 140 to Brodhead Leaving Lagrange, Ga.on July 23. Maybe we can meet up. Cheers, Gardiner MasonIf you can read "raw source" of his messages, you can see what he is writing.-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800Madison, WI 53718Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Jun 23, 2008, at 1:41 PM, airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote:>>________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
from Gardiner Mason (airlion): If your max gross wt. were 1320 lbs. what would your climb rate be after take off? I am building a corvair piet also and should have it flying by theend of the year. Gardiner Mason-------------- Original message from RBush96589(at)aol.com: --------------I have a corvair powered piet,and like the others say it likes to fly about65 to 75 mph. that's at about 2400 rpm you can get 85 or 90 mph out of it but that is pretty much flat out. Randy Bush NX294RBOn Jun 23, 2008, at 1:17 PM, airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote:> If your max gross wt. were 1320 lbs. what would your climb rate be > after t> ake off? I am building a corvair piet also and should have it flying > by the> end of the year. Gardiner Mason> -------------- Original message from RBush96589(at)aol.com: > -------------->>> I have a corvair powered piet,and like the others say it likes to > fly about> 65 to 75 mph. that's at about 2400 rpm you can get 85 or 90 mph out > of it > but that is pretty much flat out.> > Randy Bush> > NX294RB________________________________________________________________________________
from Gardiner Mason (airlion): If your max gross wt. were 1320 lbs. what would your climb rate be after take off? I am building a corvair piet also and should have it flying by theend of the year. Gardiner Mason-------------- Original message from RBush96589(at)aol.com: --------------I have a corvair powered piet,and like the others say it likes to fly about65 to 75 mph. that's at about 2400 rpm you can get 85 or 90 mph out of it but that is pretty much flat out. Randy Bush NX294RBOn Jun 23, 2008, at 1:17 PM, airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote:> If your max gross wt. were 1320 lbs. what would your climb rate be > after t> ake off? I am building a corvair piet also and should have it flying > by the> end of the year. Gardiner Mason> -------------- Original message from RBush96589(at)aol.com: > -------------->>> I have a corvair powered piet,and like the others say it likes to > fly about> 65 to 75 mph. that's at about 2400 rpm you can get 85 or 90 mph out > of it > but that is pretty much flat out.> > Randy Bush> > NX294RB________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Size of longerons and tailbrace wires
Original Posted By: airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Dan,>From what I can gather, the breaking strength of 1/16" aircraft cable(either galvanized or stainless steel) is listed at 480 lb.My guess would be that at that loading, the wood that the fittings areattached to is going to be in serious trouble.I think the 40-or-so year record of the Last Original shows that thearrangement is sufficient.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________
Dan,>From what I can gather, the breaking strength of 1/16" aircraft cable(either galvanized or stainless steel) is listed at 480 lb.My guess would be that at that loading, the wood that the fittings areattached to is going to be in serious trouble.I think the 40-or-so year record of the Last Original shows that thearrangement is sufficient.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "rubber314chicken"
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Pietenpol-List: blank________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Pietenpol-List: blank________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: adding a baggage compartment
Original Posted By: "Brian Kraut"
actually The gross for a Pietenpol is about 1100. 1320 probably wouldn't climbwell at all.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
actually The gross for a Pietenpol is about 1100. 1320 probably wouldn't climbwell at all.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________