Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner
Mike;Doesn't look to me like anybody actually answered your question about thedifferences between the two hubs (Pietenpol and Wynne) for the Corvairconversion, so I'll throw in my two cents' worth and see if I can addanything.I have the Pietenpol drawings and the hub sheets are dated November of 1972. The material indicated for the hub is "aluminum casting". The designpioneered the use of a "safety shaft" through the center of the hubinto a threaded 3/4" deep bore in the center of the crankshaft end (nose).The safety shaft is called out to be a 5" long, 1" dia. 4130 or 4140steel rod, or 1" dia. by .250" wall 4130 steel tube, threaded 18threads to the inch. The hub is mounted to the crankshaft flange using standardChevy 11/32" capscrews, 1" long. This requires that the holes in thehub be bored very deep into it and that a long, thinwall socket be used totighten them. The flange itself has a standard bolt pattern and is .438"thick at the prop flange. Overall length is given as 2.875".I say all of this to contrast this hub to the Wynne hub, which is quite a bitbeefier but is obviously an adaptation and improvement on Mr. Pietenpol'shub. It is 3.5" long with a 1.1" thick prop flange, and is machinedfrom 2024 aluminum, but William says it could be made from 6061. William'sdesign uses a safety shaft that is 6" long because the hub is a bitheavier, longer, and stouter- and the safety shaft threads 1" into thecrank nose rather than 3/4" as in the Pietenpol. The threads are 14threads per inch (coarser than the Pietenpol). While the Pietenpol hub body isslightly tapered, the Wynne design is straight, again making it beefier. William's preferred method of mounting to the crank flange is through theuse of what William calls "hybrid studs", which are threaded with theChevy 11/32" on one end and a more standard 3/8-24 thread on the nut endthat holds the hub to the crank flange.Here's what William says about the Pietenpol hub in his manual, of which Ihave three different editions dating back more than 10 years: "This methodwas pioneered by Bernie [sic] Pietenpol in the early 1960s. Although I know ofno failures of Bernie's way of doing it, my method is a little different anduses different materials, but the concept is the same." He also says, "The Pietenpol method is brought up for technical reference only. If youare building an exact replica of Bernie's engine, his son Don is the bestsource of information on it. Years ago, a number of cast aluminum hubs weremade to Bernie's drawings. Some of these are still floating around forsale. These are light duty units suited only to the modest flying done byPietenpols.".My take-away: make your hub using the Pietenpol or the Wynne drawings, butALWAYS use a safety shaft and ALWAYS use at least 6061 aluminum, NOT any castmaterial. To my non-machinist's eye, the two hubs require about the sameamount of machine work to produce but the Wynne hub has no tapers to cut and isstronger in some important areas, and is a little less than an inch or solonger. Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Photos
Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Photos
Original Posted By: "gcardinal"
For those who couldn't make it, I've posted a few shots I snapped at this year'sgathering at Brodhead. They can be viewed here:http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoG ... ID=331Bill C.P.S. If the link doesn't work, just go to www.mykitplane.com, then go to Photo gallery, then scroll down the page to my Albums and pick Brodhead 2008.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
For those who couldn't make it, I've posted a few shots I snapped at this year'sgathering at Brodhead. They can be viewed here:http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoG ... ID=331Bill C.P.S. If the link doesn't work, just go to www.mykitplane.com, then go to Photo gallery, then scroll down the page to my Albums and pick Brodhead 2008.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Photos
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Bill,Thanks for the pictures for us Less Fortunates. Question: Does anyone have a collection of the interesting fuselage art fromPiets?Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage(11 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Bill,Thanks for the pictures for us Less Fortunates. Question: Does anyone have a collection of the interesting fuselage art fromPiets?Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage(11 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead Photos
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Hi Bill.I'm the guy that changes engines quite often, Last year was a Lambert, now it ison Frank Pavliga's good looking Piet My Super Ford B engine has the 76"X57"Lambert prop, turning the same RPM, Maybe you saw the Blue Piet with a Riblett612 fly. By the way Frank has flown the Lambert and said that it clears grassin 150 feet, and flys hands off. I'm new around this neck of the woods, if youhave any questions give me a shout'Have never missed a Piet fly-in without aPiet since the number one.LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
Hi Bill.I'm the guy that changes engines quite often, Last year was a Lambert, now it ison Frank Pavliga's good looking Piet My Super Ford B engine has the 76"X57"Lambert prop, turning the same RPM, Maybe you saw the Blue Piet with a Riblett612 fly. By the way Frank has flown the Lambert and said that it clears grassin 150 feet, and flys hands off. I'm new around this neck of the woods, if youhave any questions give me a shout'Have never missed a Piet fly-in without aPiet since the number one.LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: "John Recine"
Mike, No, William Wynne is basically the only person out there doing Corvair work & although it is a chronic problem getting in touch with him & getting him to ship parts, his work - both intellectual, and the parts he makes - are top-notch. -In a broader sense, I feel a need to warn you against the "that's too pricey" attitude. -First, you will be spreading your work out over a number of years in most cases, so there will only be a few times when you will be putting out large amounts for big-ticket items - the rest is spread out over time. -Secondly, I've found that paying for knowledge is the best value - you will avoid costly mistakes - so suck it up & buy the best information available if you indeed have to pay for it. In addition to Wynne's manual, -you should also buy the Tony Bingelis books from EAA if you have not already done so. -Finally, in terms of keeping costs down - learn to scrounge! -There are good sources of lumber & plywood out there that are considerably cheaper than the aircraft suppliers & just as good for our purposes. -Also, don't be afraid to let other builders, airport owners & pilots know what you are doing & don't be shy about mentioning things you need. -Many of these folks are good leads to used parts & many are generous to a fault. -I've been blessed with a complete Corvair engine, machine work on the Corvair, -a set of Cleveland wheels, and a left-hand prop blank, just to mention a few things, simply because people who love flying knew what I was doing and gave these things to me. -In a sense, you CAN build a Piet all by your lonesome, but it becomes much more affordable if you intentionally make it a 'community' project. -At the rate I'm going, my payback to most of these folks will probably be giving their grandchildren rides at some date far in the future!Kip GardnerOn Jul 30, 2008, at 7:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote:Thanks Oscar, a very well written responce. IF I decide to do the Corvair, I will have to get these mentioned books. I see they are quite pricy, but what others are available?- Machining either hub won't be an issue, I just wanted to get the best suited part that I could make that has already been proven. (Rather then make up my own fron scratch.) Mine will more then likely be 6061-T6 aluminum. Nothing has been decided...just gathering intel. and you have been of great help.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Mike, No, William Wynne is basically the only person out there doing Corvair work & although it is a chronic problem getting in touch with him & getting him to ship parts, his work - both intellectual, and the parts he makes - are top-notch. -In a broader sense, I feel a need to warn you against the "that's too pricey" attitude. -First, you will be spreading your work out over a number of years in most cases, so there will only be a few times when you will be putting out large amounts for big-ticket items - the rest is spread out over time. -Secondly, I've found that paying for knowledge is the best value - you will avoid costly mistakes - so suck it up & buy the best information available if you indeed have to pay for it. In addition to Wynne's manual, -you should also buy the Tony Bingelis books from EAA if you have not already done so. -Finally, in terms of keeping costs down - learn to scrounge! -There are good sources of lumber & plywood out there that are considerably cheaper than the aircraft suppliers & just as good for our purposes. -Also, don't be afraid to let other builders, airport owners & pilots know what you are doing & don't be shy about mentioning things you need. -Many of these folks are good leads to used parts & many are generous to a fault. -I've been blessed with a complete Corvair engine, machine work on the Corvair, -a set of Cleveland wheels, and a left-hand prop blank, just to mention a few things, simply because people who love flying knew what I was doing and gave these things to me. -In a sense, you CAN build a Piet all by your lonesome, but it becomes much more affordable if you intentionally make it a 'community' project. -At the rate I'm going, my payback to most of these folks will probably be giving their grandchildren rides at some date far in the future!Kip GardnerOn Jul 30, 2008, at 7:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote:Thanks Oscar, a very well written responce. IF I decide to do the Corvair, I will have to get these mentioned books. I see they are quite pricy, but what others are available?- Machining either hub won't be an issue, I just wanted to get the best suited part that I could make that has already been proven. (Rather then make up my own fron scratch.) Mine will more then likely be 6061-T6 aluminum. Nothing has been decided...just gathering intel. and you have been of great help.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude.-Some complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much to print". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40 (or more)-every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in-your average vehicle-will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatre with a companion is going to set you back-half the price of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less-than 2% of the total cost of the entire plane.-In my mind, this isn't the place to look for savings. If you are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expensive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is quite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're not just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work.-Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my project (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I prefer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's why I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a conversion manual directly-from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant.-Bill C.(stepping down off the soapbox, now)-________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude.-Some complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much to print". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40 (or more)-every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in-your average vehicle-will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatre with a companion is going to set you back-half the price of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less-than 2% of the total cost of the entire plane.-In my mind, this isn't the place to look for savings. If you are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expensive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is quite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're not just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work.-Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my project (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I prefer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's why I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a conversion manual directly-from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant.-Bill C.(stepping down off the soapbox, now)-________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: "John Recine"
I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude.=C2-Some complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much to print". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40 (or more)=C2-every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in=C2-your average vehicle=C2-will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatre with a companion is going to set you back=C2-half the price of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less=C2-than 2% of the total cost of the entire plane.=C2-In my mind, this isn't the place to look for savings. If you are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expensive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is quite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're not just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work.=C2-Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my project (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I prefer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's why I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a conversion manual directly=C2-from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant.=C2-Bill C.(stepping down off the soapbox, now)3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=9D=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3=87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BEy=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3=8B=C5=93=C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5-=BAb=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92'=93-=EF=BD=C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A,=C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude.=C2-Some complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much to print". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40 (or more)=C2-every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in=C2-your average vehicle=C2-will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatre with a companion is going to set you back=C2-half the price of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less=C2-than 2% of the total cost of the entire plane.=C2-In my mind, this isn't the place to look for savings. If you are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expensive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is quite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're not just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work.=C2-Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my project (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I prefer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's why I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a conversion manual directly=C2-from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant.=C2-Bill C.(stepping down off the soapbox, now)3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D==3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=9D=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3=87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BEy=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3=8B=C5=93=C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5-=BAb=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92'=93-=EF=BD=C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A,=C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: "Michael Silvius"
I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude.=C2-Some complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much to print". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40 (or more)=C2-every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in=C2-your average vehicle=C2-will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatre with a companion is going to set you back=C2-half the price of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less=C2-than 2% of the total cost of the entire plane.=C2-In my mind, this isn't the place to look for savings. If you are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expensive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is quite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're not just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work.=C2-Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my project (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I prefer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's why I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a conversion manual directly=C2-from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant.=C2-Bill C.(stepping down off the soapbox, now)=C2- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =C3=82=C2=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=BA~=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=83=C2=AD=C3=82=C2=B2,=C3=83=C5=BEg(=C3=A2=82=AC=9C=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=9CM4=C3=83=9CG=C3=83=C5=A1q=C3=83=C2=BC=C3=82=C2=A2=C3=83=C2=AA=C3=83=C2=A2z=C3=82=C2=B9=C3=83=C5=BE=C3=83=EF=BD=C3=83=C5-.=C3=82=C2=AE'=C3=82=C2=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=C3=A2=82=AC=EF=BD=C3=82=C2=B8=C3=82=C2=AC=C3=82=C2=B4I=C3=85=C2=A1=C3=85=C2-Qh=C3=82=C2=AE=C3=83=C2=A9R=C3=83=A1=C2=AD=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=C3=83=C2=A3=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=82=C2=BA'=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=83=B9=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=B9Ey=C3=82=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=83=C2=AB j=C3=83=C2=B8=C2-j=C3=83=C5=A1+=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=A2=82=AC=C2-=C3=83=C2=AB=C3=82=C2=A3=C3=83=CB=9C^=C3=A2=9E=C2=A2=C3=82=C2=A9=C3=83=C2=B2.+-=C3=82=C2=BA=C3=83=CB=9C=C3=82=C2=A5=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=CB=9C=C3=85=C2=BE=C3=82=C2=B2=C3=83=B9=C3=85=9C=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=C3=82=C2=AB=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=B9T=C3=85=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=AEn=C3=83=A1+=C3=85=C2-=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=BAb=C3=82=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=83=CB=86b=C3=82=C2=BD=C3=83=C2=A4=C3=85=C2=BEj=C3=82=C2=B7!=C3=85=99'=C3=A2=82=AC=9C=C3=A2=82=AC=C2-=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=83=C2=AC6=C3=82=C2=B2=C3=82=C2=BA0=C3=82=C2=B1=C3=83=C2-=C3=82=C2=A1j=C3=83=98@C=C3=83=C2=A1=C3=82=C2=A2=C3=83=C5=A1,=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=C3=82=C2=AA=C3=83=C5=BEjwf=C3=82=C2=B9=C3=83=CB=86f=C3=82=C2=B9=C3=83=CB=86f=C3=82=C2=A2=C3=82=C2=B7j=C3=83=C5=BE|m=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=85=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=C3=83=C6=92&j=C3=83=C5=A1=C3=83=C2=A8=C3=85=C2=BE',r=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=82=C25=C3=82=C2=AB=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=82=C2=ABh=C3=82=C2=AC=C3=83=C2=B8=C3=85=C2=BE=C3=82=C2=B5=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=82=C2=A2R=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=82=C2=B2=C3=83=CB=9Cm=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=85=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=C3=83=C6=92&j=C3=83=C5=A1=C3=83=C2=A8=C3=85=C2=BE',r=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=82=C25=C3=82=C2=AB=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=82=C2=ABh=C3=82=C2=AC=C3=83=C2=B8=C3=85=C2=BE=C3=82=C2=B5=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=82=C2=A2R ========= =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=9D=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3=87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BEy=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3=8B=C5=93=C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5-=BAb=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92'=93-=EF=BD=C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A,=C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A________________________________________________________________________________
I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude.=C2-Some complain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should I spend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much to print". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59 (including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40 (or more)=C2-every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, which adds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in=C2-your average vehicle=C2-will get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatre with a companion is going to set you back=C2-half the price of a manual. Add popcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picture a couple of hundred dollars is probably less=C2-than 2% of the total cost of the entire plane.=C2-In my mind, this isn't the place to look for savings. If you are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly is contained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expensive. But if you are seriously considering building either, the price is quite reasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far you get. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're not just paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author for sharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years of hard work.=C2-Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm a bit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in my project (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safe ways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, I prefer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That's why I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought a conversion manual directly=C2-from William Wynne. I still have not committed to going the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regret buying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant.=C2-Bill C.(stepping down off the soapbox, now)=C2- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =C3=82=C2=C3=82=C2=B7=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=BA~=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=83=C2=AD=C3=82=C2=B2,=C3=83=C5=BEg(=C3=A2=82=AC=9C=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=9CM4=C3=83=9CG=C3=83=C5=A1q=C3=83=C2=BC=C3=82=C2=A2=C3=83=C2=AA=C3=83=C2=A2z=C3=82=C2=B9=C3=83=C5=BE=C3=83=EF=BD=C3=83=C5-.=C3=82=C2=AE'=C3=82=C2=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=C3=A2=82=AC=EF=BD=C3=82=C2=B8=C3=82=C2=AC=C3=82=C2=B4I=C3=85=C2=A1=C3=85=C2-Qh=C3=82=C2=AE=C3=83=C2=A9R=C3=83=A1=C2=AD=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=C3=83=C2=A3=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=82=C2=BA'=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=83=B9=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=B9Ey=C3=82=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=83=C2=AB j=C3=83=C2=B8=C2-j=C3=83=C5=A1+=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=A2=82=AC=C2-=C3=83=C2=AB=C3=82=C2=A3=C3=83=CB=9C^=C3=A2=9E=C2=A2=C3=82=C2=A9=C3=83=C2=B2.+-=C3=82=C2=BA=C3=83=CB=9C=C3=82=C2=A5=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=CB=9C=C3=85=C2=BE=C3=82=C2=B2=C3=83=B9=C3=85=9C=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=C3=82=C2=AB=C3=85=C2-=C3=83=B9T=C3=85=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=B4=C3=82=C2=AEn=C3=83=A1+=C3=85=C2-=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=BAb=C3=82=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=83=CB=86b=C3=82=C2=BD=C3=83=C2=A4=C3=85=C2=BEj=C3=82=C2=B7!=C3=85=99'=C3=A2=82=AC=9C=C3=A2=82=AC=C2-=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=83=C2=AC6=C3=82=C2=B2=C3=82=C2=BA0=C3=82=C2=B1=C3=83=C2-=C3=82=C2=A1j=C3=83=98@C=C3=83=C2=A1=C3=82=C2=A2=C3=83=C5=A1,=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=C3=82=C2=AA=C3=83=C5=BEjwf=C3=82=C2=B9=C3=83=CB=86f=C3=82=C2=B9=C3=83=CB=86f=C3=82=C2=A2=C3=82=C2=B7j=C3=83=C5=BE|m=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=85=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=C3=83=C6=92&j=C3=83=C5=A1=C3=83=C2=A8=C3=85=C2=BE',r=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=82=C25=C3=82=C2=AB=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=82=C2=ABh=C3=82=C2=AC=C3=83=C2=B8=C3=85=C2=BE=C3=82=C2=B5=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=82=C2=A2R=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=82=C2=B2=C3=83=CB=9Cm=C3=82=C2=B6=C3=85=C2=B8=C3=83=C2=C3=83=C6=92&j=C3=83=C5=A1=C3=83=C2=A8=C3=85=C2=BE',r=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=B0=C3=82=C25=C3=82=C2=AB=C3=83=C2=A2=C3=AF=C2=C2=BD=C3=82=C2=ABh=C3=82=C2=AC=C3=83=C2=B8=C3=85=C2=BE=C3=82=C2=B5=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=83=C2=A9=C3=82=C2=A2R ========= =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=9D=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3=87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BEy=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3=8B=C5=93=C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5-=BAb=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92'=93-=EF=BD=C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A,=C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=98m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3=C3=83&j=C3=9A=C3=A8=C5=BE',r=B0=C25=C2=AB=C3=A2=EF=BD=C2=ABh=C2=AC=C3=B8=C5=BE=C2=B5=C3=A9=C3=A9=C2=A2R=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=9F=C3=9A________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
MichaelFor what its worth I have building for 1 year and 5 months. Over that period I considered most all the engine choices several times and many not on the list. I finally made the decision about a month ago and went with the Lycoming 0235 for many reasonsPoint being you should consider all engine options while you build and decide when you get close to defining and constructing your mount. Till then no need to purchase engine specific books or materials. You will do well to purchase the Tony bengelis series for solid advice on all the aspects of the build including considerations of engine selectionIf you're serious about getting good solid info buy the Bengelis books from the EAA you will not be disapointedJohn Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
MichaelFor what its worth I have building for 1 year and 5 months. Over that period I considered most all the engine choices several times and many not on the list. I finally made the decision about a month ago and went with the Lycoming 0235 for many reasonsPoint being you should consider all engine options while you build and decide when you get close to defining and constructing your mount. Till then no need to purchase engine specific books or materials. You will do well to purchase the Tony bengelis series for solid advice on all the aspects of the build including considerations of engine selectionIf you're serious about getting good solid info buy the Bengelis books from the EAA you will not be disapointedJohn Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
MichaelFor what its worth I have building for 1 year and 5 months. Over that period I considered most all the engine choices several times and many not on the list. I finally made the decision about a month ago and went with the Lycoming 0235 for many reasonsPoint being you should consider all engine options while you build and decide when you get close to defining and constructing your mount. Till then no need to purchase engine specific books or materials. You will do well to purchase the Tony bengelis series for solid advice on all the aspects of the build including considerations of engine selectionIf you're serious about getting good solid info buy the Bengelis books from the EAA you will not be disapointedJohn Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
MichaelFor what its worth I have building for 1 year and 5 months. Over that period I considered most all the engine choices several times and many not on the list. I finally made the decision about a month ago and went with the Lycoming 0235 for many reasonsPoint being you should consider all engine options while you build and decide when you get close to defining and constructing your mount. Till then no need to purchase engine specific books or materials. You will do well to purchase the Tony bengelis series for solid advice on all the aspects of the build including considerations of engine selectionIf you're serious about getting good solid info buy the Bengelis books from the EAA you will not be disapointedJohn Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
You're welcome. Actually it was Tony that pointed me more towards the lycoming. The idea of spending 5K plus on a subaru or a corvair and still have an auto engine as opposed to spending a similar amount and getting a solid AC certified engine. I decided on the lycomingI am not knocking the others, they do have a certain attraction but I was able to find a lycoming that put me in the same price rangejust relating my experience in the great engine questJohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
You're welcome. Actually it was Tony that pointed me more towards the lycoming. The idea of spending 5K plus on a subaru or a corvair and still have an auto engine as opposed to spending a similar amount and getting a solid AC certified engine. I decided on the lycomingI am not knocking the others, they do have a certain attraction but I was able to find a lycoming that put me in the same price rangejust relating my experience in the great engine questJohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Hey Mike, Please let me clarify my post. My comments were not directed at you, personally. I would not do that on a public forum like this. They were simply a general comment on statements that I have seen posted here on the list from time to time. I hope that my- comments have not offended you. That was not my intent. As I said, they were not directed at any one individual.You are right in saying that "You don't know me". I don't. And vice-versa.- But as far as my comments go, that point is irrelevant, since my comments were not directed at you. However, from the posts you have made so far, it sounds like you have a good knowledge of machining, and have access to equipment that will be of assistance to you as you progress with your project. You are asking lots of questions. That is a smart move. Some dive into a project without gathering the necessary information to make an informed decision. There is a lot of experience held by many members of this list, and most are willing and eager to share what works and what doesn't work. This is a friendly bunch of people. If you ask a question you will usually get an answer. I've been at this project for about five years since I started thinking that maybe I could actually build and fly one of these wonderful old planes. I'm still gathering information and making decisions (and changing my mind) as I build, and I might even keep doing that after it's finished. I don't claim to have all the answers, but if I've got something to share that I think is valuable, I'll do it. That was the point of my post. Period. I get the feeling from your comments that we might have gotten off on the wrong foot. I hope not. Keep asking questions and gathering info. If you would prefer not to hear my comments, just say so, and I'll keep my mouth (or maybe that should be keyboard) shut.Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:08:45 -0700 (PDT)
Hey Mike, Please let me clarify my post. My comments were not directed at you, personally. I would not do that on a public forum like this. They were simply a general comment on statements that I have seen posted here on the list from time to time. I hope that my- comments have not offended you. That was not my intent. As I said, they were not directed at any one individual.You are right in saying that "You don't know me". I don't. And vice-versa.- But as far as my comments go, that point is irrelevant, since my comments were not directed at you. However, from the posts you have made so far, it sounds like you have a good knowledge of machining, and have access to equipment that will be of assistance to you as you progress with your project. You are asking lots of questions. That is a smart move. Some dive into a project without gathering the necessary information to make an informed decision. There is a lot of experience held by many members of this list, and most are willing and eager to share what works and what doesn't work. This is a friendly bunch of people. If you ask a question you will usually get an answer. I've been at this project for about five years since I started thinking that maybe I could actually build and fly one of these wonderful old planes. I'm still gathering information and making decisions (and changing my mind) as I build, and I might even keep doing that after it's finished. I don't claim to have all the answers, but if I've got something to share that I think is valuable, I'll do it. That was the point of my post. Period. I get the feeling from your comments that we might have gotten off on the wrong foot. I hope not. Keep asking questions and gathering info. If you would prefer not to hear my comments, just say so, and I'll keep my mouth (or maybe that should be keyboard) shut.Bill C. ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:08:45 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Mike,No, William Wynne is basically the only person out there doing Corvair work & although it is a chronic problem getting in touch with him & getting him to ship parts, his work - both intellectual, and the parts he makes - are top-notch.In a broader sense, I feel a need to warn you against the "that's too pricey" attitude. First, you will be spreading your work out over a number of years in most cases, so there will only be a few times when you will be putting out large amounts for big-ticket items - the rest is spread out over time.Secondly, I've found that paying for knowledge is the best value - you will avoid costly mistakes - so suck it up & buy the best information available if you indeed have to pay for it. In addition to Wynne's manual, you should also buy the Tony Bingelis books from EAA if you have not already done so.Finally, in terms of keeping costs down - learn to scrounge! There are good sources of lumber & plywood out there that are considerably cheaper than the aircraft suppliers & just as good for our purposes. Also, don't be afraid to let other builders, airport owners & pilots know what you are doing & don't be shy about mentioning things you need. Many of these folks are good leads to used parts & many are generous to a fault. I've been blessed with a complete Corvair engine, machine work on the Corvair, a set of Cleveland wheels, and a left-hand prop blank, just to mention a few things, simply because people who love flying knew what I was doing and gave these things to me.In a sense, you CAN build a Piet all by your lonesome, but it becomes much more affordable if you intentionally make it a 'community' project. At the rate I'm going, my payback to most of these folks will probably be giving their grandchildren rides at some date far in the future!Kip GardnerOn Jul 30, 2008, at 7:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> Thanks Oscar, a very well written responce. IF I decide to do the > Corvair, I will have to get these mentioned books. I see they are > quite pricy, but what others are available? Machining either hub > won't be an issue, I just wanted to get the best suited part that I > could make that has already been proven. (Rather then make up my > own fron scratch.) Mine will more then likely be 6061-T6 aluminum. > Nothing has been decided...just gathering intel. and you have been > of great help.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Mike,No, William Wynne is basically the only person out there doing Corvair work & although it is a chronic problem getting in touch with him & getting him to ship parts, his work - both intellectual, and the parts he makes - are top-notch.In a broader sense, I feel a need to warn you against the "that's too pricey" attitude. First, you will be spreading your work out over a number of years in most cases, so there will only be a few times when you will be putting out large amounts for big-ticket items - the rest is spread out over time.Secondly, I've found that paying for knowledge is the best value - you will avoid costly mistakes - so suck it up & buy the best information available if you indeed have to pay for it. In addition to Wynne's manual, you should also buy the Tony Bingelis books from EAA if you have not already done so.Finally, in terms of keeping costs down - learn to scrounge! There are good sources of lumber & plywood out there that are considerably cheaper than the aircraft suppliers & just as good for our purposes. Also, don't be afraid to let other builders, airport owners & pilots know what you are doing & don't be shy about mentioning things you need. Many of these folks are good leads to used parts & many are generous to a fault. I've been blessed with a complete Corvair engine, machine work on the Corvair, a set of Cleveland wheels, and a left-hand prop blank, just to mention a few things, simply because people who love flying knew what I was doing and gave these things to me.In a sense, you CAN build a Piet all by your lonesome, but it becomes much more affordable if you intentionally make it a 'community' project. At the rate I'm going, my payback to most of these folks will probably be giving their grandchildren rides at some date far in the future!Kip GardnerOn Jul 30, 2008, at 7:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> Thanks Oscar, a very well written responce. IF I decide to do the > Corvair, I will have to get these mentioned books. I see they are > quite pricy, but what others are available? Machining either hub > won't be an issue, I just wanted to get the best suited part that I > could make that has already been proven. (Rather then make up my > own fron scratch.) Mine will more then likely be 6061-T6 aluminum. > Nothing has been decided...just gathering intel. and you have been > of great help.>>________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead Photos
Original Posted By: H RULE
Hi Lowell,Thanks for the clarification regarding the new engine on your Piet. I havecorrected the description that goes with the photo. As I understand it, theFord B was an improved 1932 version of the Model A engine, producing about25% more horsepower, among other improvements. Did I get that right? I didsee your Piet fly, and it seemed to be zipping through the sky. I guess thatwould be partly attributed to the powerplant/propellor and partly to theairfoil. I had heard that Frank had installed last year's Lambert on hisPiet, and was really impressed when I saw a photo of it a few weeks ago. Ihad hoped he would be able to bring it to Brodhead this year.I would have to guess that you must be the only person on earth that couldclaim to have attended all 33 Brodhead fly-ins with a Pietenpol. What anaccomplishment. Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:33:51 -0700 (PDT)
Hi Lowell,Thanks for the clarification regarding the new engine on your Piet. I havecorrected the description that goes with the photo. As I understand it, theFord B was an improved 1932 version of the Model A engine, producing about25% more horsepower, among other improvements. Did I get that right? I didsee your Piet fly, and it seemed to be zipping through the sky. I guess thatwould be partly attributed to the powerplant/propellor and partly to theairfoil. I had heard that Frank had installed last year's Lambert on hisPiet, and was really impressed when I saw a photo of it a few weeks ago. Ihad hoped he would be able to bring it to Brodhead this year.I would have to guess that you must be the only person on earth that couldclaim to have attended all 33 Brodhead fly-ins with a Pietenpol. What anaccomplishment. Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:33:51 -0700 (PDT)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More Time
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett install
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude. Somecomplain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should Ispend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much toprint". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59(including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40(or more) every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, whichadds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in your average vehiclewill get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatrewith a companion is going to set you back half the price of a manual. Addpopcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picturea couple of hundred dollars is probably less than 2% of the total cost ofthe entire plane. In my mind, this isn't the place to look for savings. Ifyou are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly iscontained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expensive. But ifyou are seriously considering building either, the price is quitereasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far youget. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're notjust paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author forsharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years ofhard work.Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm abit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in myproject (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safeways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, Iprefer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That'swhy I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought aconversion manual directly from William Wynne. I still have not committed togoing the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regretbuying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant.Bill C.(stepping down off the soapbox, now)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett install
I've got to agree with Kip regarding the "that's too pricey" attitude. Somecomplain that the Pietenpol plans are expensive. They say "Why should Ispend $150 for a set of 75 year-old plans? It doesn't cost that much toprint". Some think William Wynne's conversion manual is expensive at $59(including shipping). Yet many of those same people faithfully shell out $40(or more) every month for cable TV or cell phones (that's every month, whichadds up to about $500 per year). A few tanks of gas in your average vehiclewill get you the price of a set of plans. Two hours at the movie theatrewith a companion is going to set you back half the price of a manual. Addpopcorn and drinks and you can get the whole manual. In the overall picturea couple of hundred dollars is probably less than 2% of the total cost ofthe entire plane. In my mind, this isn't the place to look for savings. Ifyou are just curious about what the plans look like, or what exactly iscontained in William's manual then, yes they do seem a bit expensive. But ifyou are seriously considering building either, the price is quitereasonable. Just try building either without the plans and see how far youget. One has to remember that when you buy plans or a manual, you're notjust paying for the paper it's printed on - you're paying the author forsharing his/her expertise and knowledge that they developed over years ofhard work.Don't get me wrong, I'm all for saving a buck wherever it makes sense. I'm abit of a scrounger, and so far I have very little money invested in myproject (lots of time, though), and I will always be on the lookout for safeways to keep costs down, but when it comes to buying plans or manuals, Iprefer to make sure that the money goes to the ones that deserve it. That'swhy I bought my plans directly from the Pietenpol family, and I bought aconversion manual directly from William Wynne. I still have not committed togoing the Corvair route, and will need to decide soon, but I do not regretbuying the manual, even if I decide to use another powerplant.Bill C.(stepping down off the soapbox, now)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Riblett install
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Hi Curious:Couldn't help noticing your concern, I have been in touch with H Riblett sincethe very early 90s and I sent him the Piet wing specs, he then gave me a completeoverview of, Piet, 4412(Luscomb) and two recommended Riblett designs, GA 30-U- 612, plus a thicker design, My second Piet had a 4412, clipped 2 ft. A greatperformer. When I installed a Werner 145 on my Blue Piet it would only go105 MPH @ 80% throttle, I go much faster with the Werner in another airplane,so I decided to go a head and build the 612,( not to be confused with the 612in Riblett's book ) I clipped the wing two feet, made a 3 piece, 6" hi spars,added the spacer on the spar to rib, and built it the same as the Pitt. It isclose to 5/8" higher and has a 3/8 undercamber. With testing the comparison of the Piet to the Riblett wings, using the Lambert90HP engine, there is a very big difference. Even with the shorter wing, youwont believe the glide ratio, 42MPH stall, 600 FPM climb, and flat out speed 108MPH. The Piet wing has an air separation on the under side at the rear 20%of the wing, as per Riblitts computer read-out.By the way the wing will pull close to 2.5 Gs at 120 MPH at the bottom of a loop.Got a lot of answers, if you need an opinion.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
Hi Curious:Couldn't help noticing your concern, I have been in touch with H Riblett sincethe very early 90s and I sent him the Piet wing specs, he then gave me a completeoverview of, Piet, 4412(Luscomb) and two recommended Riblett designs, GA 30-U- 612, plus a thicker design, My second Piet had a 4412, clipped 2 ft. A greatperformer. When I installed a Werner 145 on my Blue Piet it would only go105 MPH @ 80% throttle, I go much faster with the Werner in another airplane,so I decided to go a head and build the 612,( not to be confused with the 612in Riblett's book ) I clipped the wing two feet, made a 3 piece, 6" hi spars,added the spacer on the spar to rib, and built it the same as the Pitt. It isclose to 5/8" higher and has a 3/8 undercamber. With testing the comparison of the Piet to the Riblett wings, using the Lambert90HP engine, there is a very big difference. Even with the shorter wing, youwont believe the glide ratio, 42MPH stall, 600 FPM climb, and flat out speed 108MPH. The Piet wing has an air separation on the under side at the rear 20%of the wing, as per Riblitts computer read-out.By the way the wing will pull close to 2.5 Gs at 120 MPH at the bottom of a loop.Got a lot of answers, if you need an opinion.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 07:26:01 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Oscar:For what it is worth I have an original Pietenpol designed hub with thedeep bolt holes. I paid 25$ for it on eBay with a 4809 crank that I am toldwas drilled by Bernard himself. I am no expert but it looks to be turnedfrom a billet and not cast. I have no proof that is so. Perhaps someoneknows how to check for this. I am not thrilled about the deep bolt holes asthis only leaves les than 5/8ths meat for the original longest Corvair boltsto hold on, and no way to safety wire the bolts once torqued to speck. I amaware that a great deal if not all of the holding power comes from thesafety shaft in this design thus the bolts are effectively only under shearand used for drive purposes. I contemplated making a larger diameter holeonly 3/4 of an inch deep or so, effectively creating a shoulder that wouldallow the use of longer bolts with a washer but there really is not enoughmeat left and the resulting shoulder would be no more than 1/8th in width.I am told the original hub as designed by BH Pietenpol is availableundrilled from Vi so it is possible to drill and use WW's hybrid studswithout the deep bolt holes.Michael in Maine----- Original Message -----
Oscar:For what it is worth I have an original Pietenpol designed hub with thedeep bolt holes. I paid 25$ for it on eBay with a 4809 crank that I am toldwas drilled by Bernard himself. I am no expert but it looks to be turnedfrom a billet and not cast. I have no proof that is so. Perhaps someoneknows how to check for this. I am not thrilled about the deep bolt holes asthis only leaves les than 5/8ths meat for the original longest Corvair boltsto hold on, and no way to safety wire the bolts once torqued to speck. I amaware that a great deal if not all of the holding power comes from thesafety shaft in this design thus the bolts are effectively only under shearand used for drive purposes. I contemplated making a larger diameter holeonly 3/4 of an inch deep or so, effectively creating a shoulder that wouldallow the use of longer bolts with a washer but there really is not enoughmeat left and the resulting shoulder would be no more than 1/8th in width.I am told the original hub as designed by BH Pietenpol is availableundrilled from Vi so it is possible to drill and use WW's hybrid studswithout the deep bolt holes.Michael in Maine----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Bill Church
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plansWow, LOT's of assumptions there!=C2- As I could go into the whole "You don't know me" speech and turn this thread into a useless waste of time and effort, I won't. My quest is to learn what I can before making any final decisions. I have been involved with this whole world of plane building for a whopping 2 weeks! Not only am I gathering info. on things that are useful, I am gathering knowledge of the personalities on this board. It's all good. Seems like I hit a nerve with the pricey book comment, maybe it is worth it, maybe not. That is why I am here...to find out what is what. How am I to know that this is the ONLY good book on this type of subject? How am I to know there isn't others with the same info for 1/2 the price? Two weeks into the project and all I want is info.=C2- This seems to be a good place to get it...attitudes aside. I appreciate the responses, it's all good info.--- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bill Church wrote:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plansWow, LOT's of assumptions there!=C2- As I could go into the whole "You don't know me" speech and turn this thread into a useless waste of time and effort, I won't. My quest is to learn what I can before making any final decisions. I have been involved with this whole world of plane building for a whopping 2 weeks! Not only am I gathering info. on things that are useful, I am gathering knowledge of the personalities on this board. It's all good. Seems like I hit a nerve with the pricey book comment, maybe it is worth it, maybe not. That is why I am here...to find out what is what. How am I to know that this is the ONLY good book on this type of subject? How am I to know there isn't others with the same info for 1/2 the price? Two weeks into the project and all I want is info.=C2- This seems to be a good place to get it...attitudes aside. I appreciate the responses, it's all good info.--- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bill Church wrote:
RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Bill Church
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plansWow, LOT's of assumptions there!=C2- As I could go into the whole "You don't know me" speech and turn this thread into a useless waste of time and effort, I won't. My quest is to learn what I can before making any final decisions. I have been involved with this whole world of plane building for a whopping 2 weeks! Not only am I gathering info. on things that are useful, I am gathering knowledge of the personalities on this board. It's all good. Seems like I hit a nerve with the pricey book comment, maybe it is worth it, maybe not. That is why I am here...to find out what is what. How am I to know that this is the ONLY good book on this type of subject? How am I to know there isn't others with the same info for 1/2 the price? Two weeks into the project and all I want is info.=C2- This seems to be a good place to get it...attitudes aside. I appreciate the responses, it's all good info.--- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bill Church wrote:
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plansWow, LOT's of assumptions there!=C2- As I could go into the whole "You don't know me" speech and turn this thread into a useless waste of time and effort, I won't. My quest is to learn what I can before making any final decisions. I have been involved with this whole world of plane building for a whopping 2 weeks! Not only am I gathering info. on things that are useful, I am gathering knowledge of the personalities on this board. It's all good. Seems like I hit a nerve with the pricey book comment, maybe it is worth it, maybe not. That is why I am here...to find out what is what. How am I to know that this is the ONLY good book on this type of subject? How am I to know there isn't others with the same info for 1/2 the price? Two weeks into the project and all I want is info.=C2- This seems to be a good place to get it...attitudes aside. I appreciate the responses, it's all good info.--- On Wed, 7/30/08, Bill Church wrote:
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plansMike,These comments are intended to be "attitude-free", and based on my limited experience.Take them or leave them.There are very few NEW aircraft engines available today that are suitable for thePietenpol. There is NO NEW aircraft engine suitable for use in the Pietenpolavailable for $5,000. A NEW aircraft engine for the Piet will likely run you$20,000 Plus.Most builders end up using engines that were actually manufactured about fiftyyears ago. These old engines get rebuilt, or overhauled, and are typically goodfor up to 2000 hours of service before needing another rebuild. Typically theseare Continental A-65 up to O-200. The bigger the engine, the heavier it is.You can look for engines on Barnstormers.com and you will likely find a fairlywide range of prices and states of (dis)repair. A mid-timed engine can be hadrelatively cheaply, and provide lots of good service, but unless you know theengine (and possibly it's previous owner) you can never be sure what you aregetting. For this reason, many builders will pick up a run-out engine for athousand bucks or so, and have it overhauled. This will typically end up totalling$8,000-$10,000 (your actual milage may vary). If you choose to use an enginelike the Lycoming O-235, keep in mind that it is actually oversized for thisapplication, plus you will have to design your o! wn motormount. The Pietenpol plans include drawings for proven motormounts forthe Ford Model A, Corvair, and small Continentals. If your plane is built lightly,the Continental A-65 is said to be a perfect engine for the plane. If youbuild heavy, it will suffer, performance-wise.Regarding Corvair conversions, in general, what I have heard is that if you assemblea Corvair engine, using parts purchased from FlyCorvair, your costs willtotal about $5,000. If you wish to buy a fully assembled, zero-timed Corvairconversion built to William Wynne's method, and using his parts the price willbe about $8,000 (available from VairForce.com) . For about that price you shouldalso be able to buy a zero-timed Continental. The more work you can do yourself,the cheaper you will be able to build an engine. The more work you haveto sub out, the more expensive it will be. If you are capable, like Piet builderPF Beck, you can build your own Corvair conversion for less than $3,000.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:56:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plansMike,These comments are intended to be "attitude-free", and based on my limited experience.Take them or leave them.There are very few NEW aircraft engines available today that are suitable for thePietenpol. There is NO NEW aircraft engine suitable for use in the Pietenpolavailable for $5,000. A NEW aircraft engine for the Piet will likely run you$20,000 Plus.Most builders end up using engines that were actually manufactured about fiftyyears ago. These old engines get rebuilt, or overhauled, and are typically goodfor up to 2000 hours of service before needing another rebuild. Typically theseare Continental A-65 up to O-200. The bigger the engine, the heavier it is.You can look for engines on Barnstormers.com and you will likely find a fairlywide range of prices and states of (dis)repair. A mid-timed engine can be hadrelatively cheaply, and provide lots of good service, but unless you know theengine (and possibly it's previous owner) you can never be sure what you aregetting. For this reason, many builders will pick up a run-out engine for athousand bucks or so, and have it overhauled. This will typically end up totalling$8,000-$10,000 (your actual milage may vary). If you choose to use an enginelike the Lycoming O-235, keep in mind that it is actually oversized for thisapplication, plus you will have to design your o! wn motormount. The Pietenpol plans include drawings for proven motormounts forthe Ford Model A, Corvair, and small Continentals. If your plane is built lightly,the Continental A-65 is said to be a perfect engine for the plane. If youbuild heavy, it will suffer, performance-wise.Regarding Corvair conversions, in general, what I have heard is that if you assemblea Corvair engine, using parts purchased from FlyCorvair, your costs willtotal about $5,000. If you wish to buy a fully assembled, zero-timed Corvairconversion built to William Wynne's method, and using his parts the price willbe about $8,000 (available from VairForce.com) . For about that price you shouldalso be able to buy a zero-timed Continental. The more work you can do yourself,the cheaper you will be able to build an engine. The more work you haveto sub out, the more expensive it will be. If you are capable, like Piet builderPF Beck, you can build your own Corvair conversion for less than $3,000.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:56:36 -0700 (PDT)
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
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________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:15:32 -0700 (PDT)
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________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:15:32 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: John Recine
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plansI have heard good things about that series of books. Those are actually on my "to purchase" list. You hit the nail on the head...I am looking at all options and trying to get a game plan in place. No need to buy books not related to my engine. As I said multiple times, just gathering intel. for prospects. It will be some time before I am ready to commit on an engine, but for now, I will continue to learn what I can. Thanks for the reply!--- On Wed, 7/30/08, John Recine wrote:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plansI have heard good things about that series of books. Those are actually on my "to purchase" list. You hit the nail on the head...I am looking at all options and trying to get a game plan in place. No need to buy books not related to my engine. As I said multiple times, just gathering intel. for prospects. It will be some time before I am ready to commit on an engine, but for now, I will continue to learn what I can. Thanks for the reply!--- On Wed, 7/30/08, John Recine wrote:
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
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________________________________________________________________________________
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
RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Hey Mike,Please let me clarify my post.My comments were not directed at you, personally. I would not do that on apublic forum like this. They were simply a general comment on statementsthat I have seen posted here on the list from time to time. I hope that mycomments have not offended you. That was not my intent. As I said, they werenot directed at any one individual.You are right in saying that "You don't know me". I don't. And vice-versa.But as far as my comments go, that point is irrelevant, since my commentswere not directed at you. However, from the posts you have made so far, itsounds like you have a good knowledge of machining, and have access toequipment that will be of assistance to you as you progress with yourproject. You are asking lots of questions. That is a smart move. Some diveinto a project without gathering the necessary information to make aninformed decision. There is a lot of experience held by many members of thislist, and most are willing and eager to share what works and what doesn'twork. This is a friendly bunch of people. If you ask a question you willusually get an answer. I've been at this project for about five years sinceI started thinking that maybe I could actually build and fly one of thesewonderful old planes. I'm still gathering information and making decisions(and changing my mind) as I build, and I might even keep doing that afterit's finished. I don't claim to have all the answers, but if I've gotsomething to share that I think is valuable, I'll do it. That was the pointof my post. Period. I get the feeling from your comments that we might have gotten off on thewrong foot. I hope not.Keep asking questions and gathering info. If you would prefer not to hear mycomments, just say so, and I'll keep my mouth (or maybe that should bekeyboard) shut.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:03:20 -0700 (PDT)
Hey Mike,Please let me clarify my post.My comments were not directed at you, personally. I would not do that on apublic forum like this. They were simply a general comment on statementsthat I have seen posted here on the list from time to time. I hope that mycomments have not offended you. That was not my intent. As I said, they werenot directed at any one individual.You are right in saying that "You don't know me". I don't. And vice-versa.But as far as my comments go, that point is irrelevant, since my commentswere not directed at you. However, from the posts you have made so far, itsounds like you have a good knowledge of machining, and have access toequipment that will be of assistance to you as you progress with yourproject. You are asking lots of questions. That is a smart move. Some diveinto a project without gathering the necessary information to make aninformed decision. There is a lot of experience held by many members of thislist, and most are willing and eager to share what works and what doesn'twork. This is a friendly bunch of people. If you ask a question you willusually get an answer. I've been at this project for about five years sinceI started thinking that maybe I could actually build and fly one of thesewonderful old planes. I'm still gathering information and making decisions(and changing my mind) as I build, and I might even keep doing that afterit's finished. I don't claim to have all the answers, but if I've gotsomething to share that I think is valuable, I'll do it. That was the pointof my post. Period. I get the feeling from your comments that we might have gotten off on thewrong foot. I hope not.Keep asking questions and gathering info. If you would prefer not to hear mycomments, just say so, and I'll keep my mouth (or maybe that should bekeyboard) shut.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 10:03:20 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Michael:Something to chew on for a while and quite educating.http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvai ... k2/Offered not as a discouragement but this should give you an idea of the kind of teritory you are geting in to.Michael in Maine________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Michael:Something to chew on for a while and quite educating.http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvai ... k2/Offered not as a discouragement but this should give you an idea of the kind of teritory you are geting in to.Michael in Maine________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: "Ken Chambers"
Mike,These comments are intended to be "attitude-free", and based on my limited experience.Take them or leave them.There are very few NEW aircraft engines available today that are suitable for thePietenpol. There is NO NEW aircraft engine suitable for use in the Pietenpolavailable for $5,000. A NEW aircraft engine for the Piet will likely run you$20,000 Plus.Most builders end up using engines that were actually manufactured about fiftyyears ago. These old engines get rebuilt, or overhauled, and are typically goodfor up to 2000 hours of service before needing another rebuild. Typically theseare Continental A-65 up to O-200. The bigger the engine, the heavier it is.You can look for engines on Barnstormers.com and you will likely find a fairlywide range of prices and states of (dis)repair. A mid-timed engine can be hadrelatively cheaply, and provide lots of good service, but unless you know theengine (and possibly it's previous owner) you can never be sure what you aregetting. For this reason, many builders will pick up a run-out engine for athousand bucks or so, and have it overhauled. This will typically end up totalling$8,000-$10,000 (your actual milage may vary). If you choose to use an enginelike the Lycoming O-235, keep in mind that it is actually oversized for thisapplication, plus you will have to design your own motormount. The Pietenpolplans include drawings for proven motormounts for the Ford Model A, Corvair,and small Continentals. If your plane is built lightly, the Continental A-65is said to be a perfect engine for the plane. If you build heavy, it will suffer,performance-wise.Regarding Corvair conversions, in general, what I have heard is that if you assemblea Corvair engine, using parts purchased from FlyCorvair, your costs willtotal about $5,000. If you wish to buy a fully assembled, zero-timed Corvairconversion built to William Wynne's method, and using his parts the price willbe about $8,000 (available from VairForce.com) . For about that price you shouldalso be able to buy a zero-timed Continental. The more work you can do yourself,the cheaper you will be able to build an engine. The more work you haveto sub out, the more expensive it will be. If you are capable, like Piet builderPF Beck, you can build your own Corvair conversion for less than $3,000.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:08:17 -0500
Mike,These comments are intended to be "attitude-free", and based on my limited experience.Take them or leave them.There are very few NEW aircraft engines available today that are suitable for thePietenpol. There is NO NEW aircraft engine suitable for use in the Pietenpolavailable for $5,000. A NEW aircraft engine for the Piet will likely run you$20,000 Plus.Most builders end up using engines that were actually manufactured about fiftyyears ago. These old engines get rebuilt, or overhauled, and are typically goodfor up to 2000 hours of service before needing another rebuild. Typically theseare Continental A-65 up to O-200. The bigger the engine, the heavier it is.You can look for engines on Barnstormers.com and you will likely find a fairlywide range of prices and states of (dis)repair. A mid-timed engine can be hadrelatively cheaply, and provide lots of good service, but unless you know theengine (and possibly it's previous owner) you can never be sure what you aregetting. For this reason, many builders will pick up a run-out engine for athousand bucks or so, and have it overhauled. This will typically end up totalling$8,000-$10,000 (your actual milage may vary). If you choose to use an enginelike the Lycoming O-235, keep in mind that it is actually oversized for thisapplication, plus you will have to design your own motormount. The Pietenpolplans include drawings for proven motormounts for the Ford Model A, Corvair,and small Continentals. If your plane is built lightly, the Continental A-65is said to be a perfect engine for the plane. If you build heavy, it will suffer,performance-wise.Regarding Corvair conversions, in general, what I have heard is that if you assemblea Corvair engine, using parts purchased from FlyCorvair, your costs willtotal about $5,000. If you wish to buy a fully assembled, zero-timed Corvairconversion built to William Wynne's method, and using his parts the price willbe about $8,000 (available from VairForce.com) . For about that price you shouldalso be able to buy a zero-timed Continental. The more work you can do yourself,the cheaper you will be able to build an engine. The more work you haveto sub out, the more expensive it will be. If you are capable, like Piet builderPF Beck, you can build your own Corvair conversion for less than $3,000.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:08:17 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair hub on Piet. plans
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Not too certain the 0235 remark the hp ranges from 108 hp upThe corvair developes 100 to 125 hp as I have seen published by othersHow is 108 hp over powering?Would someone explain that one to me I am not too certain about the math! Yet alwayswilling to learn the errors of my waysYou should more than likely explain the part about Corvair engines and parts stillbeing manfactured and the overwhealming supply of new parts available at thelocal autzone parts store. JohnJohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
Not too certain the 0235 remark the hp ranges from 108 hp upThe corvair developes 100 to 125 hp as I have seen published by othersHow is 108 hp over powering?Would someone explain that one to me I am not too certain about the math! Yet alwayswilling to learn the errors of my waysYou should more than likely explain the part about Corvair engines and parts stillbeing manfactured and the overwhealming supply of new parts available at thelocal autzone parts store. JohnJohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Waldo Pepper - One More Time
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Jack, are you going to let us know how your trip went and what I missed out on???Gene in Tennessee----- Original Message -----
Jack, are you going to let us know how your trip went and what I missed out on???Gene in Tennessee----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Photos
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
The thickness of the gussets in the Flitzer's wings are not what makes it morecapable of handling aerobatic stresses, nor is it a comparison of gross weightto wing area. If we were to double the thickness of the gussets in the Piet'swing to 1/8", I still wouldn't be inclined to do any snap maneuvers in a Piet.The shorter wingspan, stiffer spars, and extra bracing in the Flitzer's airframeis what gives it the strength to survive aerobatics. The Flitzer was engineeredfor a bit more aggressive type of flying. Bernard Pietenpol didn't designhis airplane for aerobatics, but for simple flying pleasure out of his smallpasture airport. This isn't really a comparison of apples to oranges but morelike a comparison of apples to eggs... Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILBaker, LAtail feathers nearly doneRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Photos
The thickness of the gussets in the Flitzer's wings are not what makes it morecapable of handling aerobatic stresses, nor is it a comparison of gross weightto wing area. If we were to double the thickness of the gussets in the Piet'swing to 1/8", I still wouldn't be inclined to do any snap maneuvers in a Piet.The shorter wingspan, stiffer spars, and extra bracing in the Flitzer's airframeis what gives it the strength to survive aerobatics. The Flitzer was engineeredfor a bit more aggressive type of flying. Bernard Pietenpol didn't designhis airplane for aerobatics, but for simple flying pleasure out of his smallpasture airport. This isn't really a comparison of apples to oranges but morelike a comparison of apples to eggs... Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILBaker, LAtail feathers nearly doneRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Photos
Original Posted By: Ross Alexander
Well, I finally got around to downloading some of the pictures I took at Brodheadthis year!They can be found here:http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoG ... ID=344Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:58:43 -0700 (PDT)
Well, I finally got around to downloading some of the pictures I took at Brodheadthis year!They can be found here:http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoG ... ID=344Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:58:43 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Photos
Original Posted By: Lawrence Williams
Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Photos
Original Posted By: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead PhotosNice job Bill thanks for the picsJohnIn a message dated 8/29/2009 3:06:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billspiet(at)sympatico.ca writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" Well, I finally got around to downloading some of the pictures I took at Brodhead this year!They can be found here:http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoG ... ID=344Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead PhotosNice job Bill thanks for the picsJohnIn a message dated 8/29/2009 3:06:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, billspiet(at)sympatico.ca writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Bill Church" Well, I finally got around to downloading some of the pictures I took at Brodhead this year!They can be found here:http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoG ... ID=344Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________