Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
This has been covered at length in the archies, but it should be re-sated every now-and-then. 4130, the chrome-moly alloy most used in airplanes, was formulated with gas welding in mind. 4130 retains its strength without post-welding heat treatment when welded with gas, allowing the amateur (like most of us on this list) to achieve very strong and pretty welds with very inexpensive equipment. Gas welding, using Oxy-Acetylene, is a great choice for the amateur airplane builder. Mike Hardaway________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldMichael,I would highly recommend that you open yourself to the possibility of learning to weld. As others have stated there are MANY parts on this wood airplane that need welding. I would hate the thought of every time I wanted something welded that I had to stop what I am doing and run this or that part out to the welder.......what a nightmare! Besides welding is FUN after you get the hang of it. And also besides, learning new building skills have been every bit as rewarding as any other phase of this whole process. I personally would not attempt the Piet without knowing how/having welding equipment. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics =93 check it out! http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldMichael,I would highly recommend that you open yourself to the possibility of learning to weld. As others have stated there are MANY parts on this wood airplane that need welding. I would hate the thought of every time I wanted something welded that I had to stop what I am doing and run this or that part out to the welder.......what a nightmare! Besides welding is FUN after you get the hang of it. And also besides, learning new building skills have been every bit as rewarding as any other phase of this whole process. I personally would not attempt the Piet without knowing how/having welding equipment. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics =93 check it out! http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I second that! Although I had gas welding schooling about 25 years ago, I never had anyreal experience. Many here will tell you that there are easier ways to weldthan gas, but getting that set up is cheap! It took awhile to get in thegroove, but now I am enjoying each little welding project more andmore..and, as Dan says, there's a bunch of them! If things keep progressingthis well, I may even do my own engine mount!Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)(12 ribs down.) _____
I second that! Although I had gas welding schooling about 25 years ago, I never had anyreal experience. Many here will tell you that there are easier ways to weldthan gas, but getting that set up is cheap! It took awhile to get in thegroove, but now I am enjoying each little welding project more andmore..and, as Dan says, there's a bunch of them! If things keep progressingthis well, I may even do my own engine mount!Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)(12 ribs down.) _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: "Ryan Mueller"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldSo then is a MIG ok for doing the brackets? I think most recommend the gas or TIG...I actually have a gas set up, but have only used it as a torch!Boyce________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:04:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldSo then is a MIG ok for doing the brackets? I think most recommend the gas or TIG...I actually have a gas set up, but have only used it as a torch!Boyce________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 15:04:44 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldOK someone please explain to me the difference between gas welding and brazing? Oxy-Acetylene is gas welding right?Boyce________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldOK someone please explain to me the difference between gas welding and brazing? Oxy-Acetylene is gas welding right?Boyce________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldIn a message dated 10/27/2008 4:29:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ashcan(at)earthlink.net writes:If you connect them with a different kind of metal, that's brazingSounds like brazing and soldering (as in copper plumbing pipe/lead solder) is the same thing...So, if you are welding 4130 plate, do I use a coat hanger for welding rod, or does it have to be 4130 rod?________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:35:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldIn a message dated 10/27/2008 4:29:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ashcan(at)earthlink.net writes:If you connect them with a different kind of metal, that's brazingSounds like brazing and soldering (as in copper plumbing pipe/lead solder) is the same thing...So, if you are welding 4130 plate, do I use a coat hanger for welding rod, or does it have to be 4130 rod?________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:35:26 -0400 (EDT)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Boyce,Here's a very basic answer.Yes, when people write gas welding, they are referring to welding using anOxy-Acetylene torch.By definition, welding involves heating the two (or more) metal parts beingjoined to a temperature slightly above their melting point. The pieces beingjoined melt together (sometimes with added filler material) to become one.Brazing involves heating the two (or more) metal parts being joined to atemperature less than their melting point. A third element is added (thebrazing rod) which has a melting point lower than the metals being joined.The brazing rod melts, and becomes adhered to the other parts, forming abridge between the two. The pieces being brazed do not melt together.Brazing is basically like a high strength solder joint.The general consensus regarding brazing and welding of Pietenpol structuresis that it is okay to braze a Pietenpol fuselage IF you build using 1020steel tubing (as shown in the plans), but NOT if you use 4130 Chro-molytubing. The 4130 tubing will tend to become brittle when brazed. 4130 can besuccessfully welded, but the welds need to be normalized (allowed to coolvery slowly, without any drafts) following welding.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________
Boyce,Here's a very basic answer.Yes, when people write gas welding, they are referring to welding using anOxy-Acetylene torch.By definition, welding involves heating the two (or more) metal parts beingjoined to a temperature slightly above their melting point. The pieces beingjoined melt together (sometimes with added filler material) to become one.Brazing involves heating the two (or more) metal parts being joined to atemperature less than their melting point. A third element is added (thebrazing rod) which has a melting point lower than the metals being joined.The brazing rod melts, and becomes adhered to the other parts, forming abridge between the two. The pieces being brazed do not melt together.Brazing is basically like a high strength solder joint.The general consensus regarding brazing and welding of Pietenpol structuresis that it is okay to braze a Pietenpol fuselage IF you build using 1020steel tubing (as shown in the plans), but NOT if you use 4130 Chro-molytubing. The 4130 tubing will tend to become brittle when brazed. 4130 can besuccessfully welded, but the welds need to be normalized (allowed to coolvery slowly, without any drafts) following welding.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to welduh oh....OK now I'm going to the garage when I get home to see what brand of torch I have! I think it was a Lincoln. Do they make gas welders/torches? It might be Victor though I hope not. What do I look for to determine what is the "right" size? Tip size? Thanks!Boyce________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:40:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to welduh oh....OK now I'm going to the garage when I get home to see what brand of torch I have! I think it was a Lincoln. Do they make gas welders/torches? It might be Victor though I hope not. What do I look for to determine what is the "right" size? Tip size? Thanks!Boyce________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:40:27 -0500
Pietenpol-List: Re: Struts and supports
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
[It has been my experience that welding with 4130 rod has failed in our competitionrobots. (FIRST), by changing to a lower carbon rod there wasn't any failures.Pieti Lowell , . > Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Struts and supports
[It has been my experience that welding with 4130 rod has failed in our competitionrobots. (FIRST), by changing to a lower carbon rod there wasn't any failures.Pieti Lowell , . > Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Struts and supports
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: TOM STINEMETZE
Tom:Take a look at the Meco Midget Torch:http://www.tinmantech.com/html/meco_midget_torch.phpO got one on ebay a while back and I love itI also have a Meco Aviator but I like the midget betterhttp://www.tinmantech.com/html/meco_aviator_jet_adaptor.phpI have heard that the Henrob-Dillon-Cobra are the cat's meow, but have never used one:http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/Michael ----- Original Message -----
Tom:Take a look at the Meco Midget Torch:http://www.tinmantech.com/html/meco_midget_torch.phpO got one on ebay a while back and I love itI also have a Meco Aviator but I like the midget betterhttp://www.tinmantech.com/html/meco_aviator_jet_adaptor.phpI have heard that the Henrob-Dillon-Cobra are the cat's meow, but have never used one:http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/Michael ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: "Ryan Mueller"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldWell, got home and checked, sure enough I have a Victor! Never fails if you need two of something I only have one, or if you need red, I have every colorBUT red! Oh well, I'm still building my Mustang II, so it will be a while before a Piet is in my life anyway....Boyce________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:02:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldWell, got home and checked, sure enough I have a Victor! Never fails if you need two of something I only have one, or if you need red, I have every colorBUT red! Oh well, I'm still building my Mustang II, so it will be a while before a Piet is in my life anyway....Boyce________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:02:15 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldIs there anyone making the steel parts or ribs or ?? for the Piet for resale? I have an unmeasurable respect for you guys plans building. Occasionally,I think when the Mustang is complete, I will buy a completed Pietenpol, or maybe an unfinished project to speed the process along. I have three young children, and I barely get any time to build the Mustang(kit/quick build kit).I think when I get it done, I may be done with "projects"!Boyce________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldIs there anyone making the steel parts or ribs or ?? for the Piet for resale? I have an unmeasurable respect for you guys plans building. Occasionally,I think when the Mustang is complete, I will buy a completed Pietenpol, or maybe an unfinished project to speed the process along. I have three young children, and I barely get any time to build the Mustang(kit/quick build kit).I think when I get it done, I may be done with "projects"!Boyce________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldI don't understand. What does tank size have to do with it? Just means it is longer between trips to the welding supply store right?Boyce________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:01:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldI don't understand. What does tank size have to do with it? Just means it is longer between trips to the welding supply store right?Boyce________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:01:41 -0400 (EDT)
> RE: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
see ebay Item number: 330280942484steel tube GN1http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-GN-1-Aircamper-Aircraft-Quick-Build-Kit_W0QQitemZ330280942484QQihZ014QQcategoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemnot mine just passing it onMichael ----- Original Message -----
see ebay Item number: 330280942484steel tube GN1http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-GN-1-Aircamper-Aircraft-Quick-Build-Kit_W0QQitemZ330280942484QQihZ014QQcategoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemnot mine just passing it onMichael ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
Most, if not all, of this stuff has been hashed over a numberof times over the years.One thing is DON"T braze 4130. Sometimes you can get awaywith it but I've had it bite me and so have others. 4130 has anopen grain which means that the braze material goes intothat and fills it up. So? Well, when the joint cools down thesteel shrinks more than the brass. I had one nice little jointsitting there cooling behind my back as I turned to turn offthe valves. Suddenly CRACK! big split in the tube. AC41.13says not to braze. Now you know why. By the way, if ithelps, you can think of brazing as glueing the metals together,same as glueing wood with your epoxy.Another thing. 4130 gets it's high strength from heat treating.As soon as welding temperatures are reached that goes downthe toilet. The heated area might as well be mild steel. That'swhy you see those fancy fish mouth joints in AC 41.13.Heat normalizing relieves stresses but does not restore anystrength.I agree with Robot Man. I bought some of that 4130 rodand now it has the same function as coat hangers. Great forpicture hangers and painting hooks. :-)Haven't tried it with marshmallows however. :-)http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleZ ... "Education: the path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty."- Mark Twain, writer and humorist----- Original Message -----
Most, if not all, of this stuff has been hashed over a numberof times over the years.One thing is DON"T braze 4130. Sometimes you can get awaywith it but I've had it bite me and so have others. 4130 has anopen grain which means that the braze material goes intothat and fills it up. So? Well, when the joint cools down thesteel shrinks more than the brass. I had one nice little jointsitting there cooling behind my back as I turned to turn offthe valves. Suddenly CRACK! big split in the tube. AC41.13says not to braze. Now you know why. By the way, if ithelps, you can think of brazing as glueing the metals together,same as glueing wood with your epoxy.Another thing. 4130 gets it's high strength from heat treating.As soon as welding temperatures are reached that goes downthe toilet. The heated area might as well be mild steel. That'swhy you see those fancy fish mouth joints in AC 41.13.Heat normalizing relieves stresses but does not restore anystrength.I agree with Robot Man. I bought some of that 4130 rodand now it has the same function as coat hangers. Great forpicture hangers and painting hooks. :-)Haven't tried it with marshmallows however. :-)http://www.airbum.com/articles/ArticleZ ... "Education: the path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty."- Mark Twain, writer and humorist----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: "Ryan Mueller"
RE: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos of aluminum strut fittings- bolt number andspacingOscar,I am interested in your opinion and others on this. At the time I remember thinking through this and making a conscious decision, but now it eludes me. What is the shear strength of that whole system as it stands? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics =93 check it out! http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldDate: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 07:09:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos of aluminum strut fittings- bolt number andspacingOscar,I am interested in your opinion and others on this. At the time I remember thinking through this and making a conscious decision, but now it eludes me. What is the shear strength of that whole system as it stands? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics =93 check it out! http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weldDate: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 07:09:00 -0400
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Just a note of clarification, Clif.While 4130 IS heat-treatable, and can be strengthened considerably by heattreatment, it is not usually sold in that condition.Almost all 4130 tubing is sold in Normalized condition.The following definition is from the Aircraft Spruce website: " Normalizingconsists of uniform heating to a temperature slightly above the point atwhich grain structure is affected (known as the critical temperature),followed by cooling in still air to room temperature. This produces auniform structure and hardness throughout."In its normalized state, 4130 has an ultimate tensile strength ofapproximately 90,000 psi. This is almost double that of 1020 steel (55,000psi).With proper heat treating, the strength of 4130 can be doubled again (up to180,000 psi), but most homebuilt aircraft do not bother with this as theNormalized condition is plenty strong (especially if the airframe wasoriginally designed to be built using 1020 steel).It is my understanding that if 4130 is welded using Oxy-Acetylene, andallowed to cool to room temperature in still air, the welds will not need tobe normalized, as they will achieve that state naturally. If the welding isdone in (or outside of) a shop where the air is moving, or the ambient airis colder, the welds should probably be normalized, as a safety precaution.I have also read that it is not really necessary to normalize thin-walled(less than 1/8" wall) 4130 tubing or plate that has been TIG welded. Theheat produced by TIG welding is extremely intense and localized, thusresulting in a very small Heat Affected Zone. Again these welds should beallowed to cool to room temperature, in still air. This information,however, is what I have read - not based on my own experience.Bill C.-----Original Message-----
Just a note of clarification, Clif.While 4130 IS heat-treatable, and can be strengthened considerably by heattreatment, it is not usually sold in that condition.Almost all 4130 tubing is sold in Normalized condition.The following definition is from the Aircraft Spruce website: " Normalizingconsists of uniform heating to a temperature slightly above the point atwhich grain structure is affected (known as the critical temperature),followed by cooling in still air to room temperature. This produces auniform structure and hardness throughout."In its normalized state, 4130 has an ultimate tensile strength ofapproximately 90,000 psi. This is almost double that of 1020 steel (55,000psi).With proper heat treating, the strength of 4130 can be doubled again (up to180,000 psi), but most homebuilt aircraft do not bother with this as theNormalized condition is plenty strong (especially if the airframe wasoriginally designed to be built using 1020 steel).It is my understanding that if 4130 is welded using Oxy-Acetylene, andallowed to cool to room temperature in still air, the welds will not need tobe normalized, as they will achieve that state naturally. If the welding isdone in (or outside of) a shop where the air is moving, or the ambient airis colder, the welds should probably be normalized, as a safety precaution.I have also read that it is not really necessary to normalize thin-walled(less than 1/8" wall) 4130 tubing or plate that has been TIG welded. Theheat produced by TIG welding is extremely intense and localized, thusresulting in a very small Heat Affected Zone. Again these welds should beallowed to cool to room temperature, in still air. This information,however, is what I have read - not based on my own experience.Bill C.-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
For those curious about TIG welding of 4130, here is a link with some useful information(including recommended filler rods, and whether normalization is requiredfor thin walled tubing welds):http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/sportair/Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
For those curious about TIG welding of 4130, here is a link with some useful information(including recommended filler rods, and whether normalization is requiredfor thin walled tubing welds):http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/sportair/Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Adequate rod ends
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
Figure it out.- The lift struts go into the wing panel at just about the middle, so they essentially carry all the lift loads (the cabane struts carry very little load on a Pietenpol).- Assuming a gross weight of 1200 lbs, at 5 G=92s (ultimate loading) that means the wings must support 6000 lbs, or 3,000 lbs per wing panel.- If the front struts carry 2/3 of the load, they are carrying 2,000 lbs of LIFT each.- To find the tensile load in the strut you=92ve got to figure the total load is the lift load divided by the sine of the angle.- Assuming your struts are at a 30 degree angle to the horizontal, each front strut will be carrying an axial load of 2,000 lbs/.50 or 4,000 lbs.-I used HMX Rod Ends from Aircraft Spruce for mine.- 5/16=94 screw threads, rated at 5,390 lbs radial load each.- I don=92t understand your reference to a 45,000 psi stress, although I guess if you calculate the area of the threade portion you could deduce the stress involved.- Assuming the diameter is 5/16=94, the rod ends I used would be good for about 70,000 psi.-Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposable Products Research & Development Cardinal Health Clinical Technologies & Services Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212
Figure it out.- The lift struts go into the wing panel at just about the middle, so they essentially carry all the lift loads (the cabane struts carry very little load on a Pietenpol).- Assuming a gross weight of 1200 lbs, at 5 G=92s (ultimate loading) that means the wings must support 6000 lbs, or 3,000 lbs per wing panel.- If the front struts carry 2/3 of the load, they are carrying 2,000 lbs of LIFT each.- To find the tensile load in the strut you=92ve got to figure the total load is the lift load divided by the sine of the angle.- Assuming your struts are at a 30 degree angle to the horizontal, each front strut will be carrying an axial load of 2,000 lbs/.50 or 4,000 lbs.-I used HMX Rod Ends from Aircraft Spruce for mine.- 5/16=94 screw threads, rated at 5,390 lbs radial load each.- I don=92t understand your reference to a 45,000 psi stress, although I guess if you calculate the area of the threade portion you could deduce the stress involved.- Assuming the diameter is 5/16=94, the rod ends I used would be good for about 70,000 psi.-Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposable Products Research & Development Cardinal Health Clinical Technologies & Services Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212
Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
I did my first welding ever last night. I purchased an Meco Midget off ebay a while ago and just got some tips, ultra-lightweight hose, rod for 4130, and TM1000 lens from tinmantech. I hooked up to a friend's tanks and went to it on some flat .090 and .064 I had sitting aroundI had a great time running some beads and doing a quick 90 degree weld of two pieces. I took the piece home and shared it with my wife. "I call it Eggplant Palm. Can you find a place to display it prominently in the living room?", I asked whimsically. "I thought this was going to productive not artistic!", she retorted.Sometimes its hard to tell the difference in airplane building.With still much to learn, do, and enjoyKIrkOn Oct 27, 2008, at 3:27 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:> >Besides welding is FUN after you get the hang of it. And also > besides, learning new building skills have been every bitas > rewarding as any other phase of this whole process. I personally > would not attempt the Piet without knowinghow/having welding > equipment. > Do you have any recommendations as to the proper welding equipment > to use? I have heard that oxy/acetylene is easier to learn on light > 4130 type materials. How big should the tip size be, etc. Is there a > good manual / training video available?>> Tom Stinemetze> McPherson, KS.>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:21:32 -0400 (EDT)
I did my first welding ever last night. I purchased an Meco Midget off ebay a while ago and just got some tips, ultra-lightweight hose, rod for 4130, and TM1000 lens from tinmantech. I hooked up to a friend's tanks and went to it on some flat .090 and .064 I had sitting aroundI had a great time running some beads and doing a quick 90 degree weld of two pieces. I took the piece home and shared it with my wife. "I call it Eggplant Palm. Can you find a place to display it prominently in the living room?", I asked whimsically. "I thought this was going to productive not artistic!", she retorted.Sometimes its hard to tell the difference in airplane building.With still much to learn, do, and enjoyKIrkOn Oct 27, 2008, at 3:27 PM, TOM STINEMETZE wrote:> >Besides welding is FUN after you get the hang of it. And also > besides, learning new building skills have been every bitas > rewarding as any other phase of this whole process. I personally > would not attempt the Piet without knowinghow/having welding > equipment. > Do you have any recommendations as to the proper welding equipment > to use? I have heard that oxy/acetylene is easier to learn on light > 4130 type materials. How big should the tip size be, etc. Is there a > good manual / training video available?>> Tom Stinemetze> McPherson, KS.>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 12:21:32 -0400 (EDT)
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
> Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
> Michael,> > I would highly recommend that you open yourself to the> possibility of > learning to weld. As others have stated there are MANY> parts on this wood airplane > that need welding. I would hate the thought of every time I> wanted something > welded that I had to stop what I am doing and run this or> that part out to > the welder.......what a nightmare! > > Besides welding is FUN after you get the hang of it. And> also besides, > learning new building skills have been every bit as> rewarding as any other phase > of this whole process. I personally would not attempt the> Piet without knowing > how/having welding equipment. > > Dan Helsper> Poplar Grove, IL.> **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All> of your favorites, > no registration required and great graphics check it> out! > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
> Michael,> > I would highly recommend that you open yourself to the> possibility of > learning to weld. As others have stated there are MANY> parts on this wood airplane > that need welding. I would hate the thought of every time I> wanted something > welded that I had to stop what I am doing and run this or> that part out to > the welder.......what a nightmare! > > Besides welding is FUN after you get the hang of it. And> also besides, > learning new building skills have been every bit as> rewarding as any other phase > of this whole process. I personally would not attempt the> Piet without knowing > how/having welding equipment. > > Dan Helsper> Poplar Grove, IL.> **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All> of your favorites, > no registration required and great graphics check it> out! > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) ________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: charles loomis
> In a message dated 10/27/2008 4:29:59 P.M. Eastern Standard> Time, > ashcan(at)earthlink.net writes:> > If you connect them with a different kind of metal,> that's brazing> > > Sounds like brazing and soldering (as in copper plumbing> pipe/lead solder) > is the same thing...> > So, if you are welding 4130 plate, do I use a coat hanger> for welding rod, > or does it have to be 4130 rod? ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
> In a message dated 10/27/2008 4:29:59 P.M. Eastern Standard> Time, > ashcan(at)earthlink.net writes:> > If you connect them with a different kind of metal,> that's brazing> > > Sounds like brazing and soldering (as in copper plumbing> pipe/lead solder) > is the same thing...> > So, if you are welding 4130 plate, do I use a coat hanger> for welding rod, > or does it have to be 4130 rod? ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
> uh oh....OK now I'm going to the garage when I get home> to see what brand of > torch I have! I think it was a Lincoln. Do they make gas> welders/torches? It > might be Victor though I hope not. What do I look for to> determine what is > the "right" size? Tip size? Thanks!> Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:19:48 -0400 (EDT)
> uh oh....OK now I'm going to the garage when I get home> to see what brand of > torch I have! I think it was a Lincoln. Do they make gas> welders/torches? It > might be Victor though I hope not. What do I look for to> determine what is > the "right" size? Tip size? Thanks!> Boyce ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:19:48 -0400 (EDT)
>> Re: Pietenpol-List: Learning to weld
Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
>> uh oh....OK now I'm going to the garage when I get home>> to see what brand of >> torch I have! I think it was a Lincoln. Do they make gas>> welders/torches? It >> might be Victor though I hope not. What do I look for to>> determine what is >> the "right" size? Tip size? Thanks!>> Boyce>>> >>________________________________________________________________________________
>> uh oh....OK now I'm going to the garage when I get home>> to see what brand of >> torch I have! I think it was a Lincoln. Do they make gas>> welders/torches? It >> might be Victor though I hope not. What do I look for to>> determine what is >> the "right" size? Tip size? Thanks!>> Boyce>>> >>________________________________________________________________________________