Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]"
For those of you that have built a Piet in the past 5 yrs. or so, would you bewilling to share how much your overall costs were?In talking with several members on this forum (thanks Jack, Jeff, and a coupleof others), I have come to the conclusion that I'm likely not going to save much,if anything, by building a Piet. In fact, I've come to the conclusion thatit may be in my best interest to purchase a well-built one that's already gotthe minimum hours flown off it and just learn to fly it. Then, when the kidshave left home and I'm bored in my older age, build me one just like I want,if I'm still inclined to do so.Any comments, suggestions, or meaningful discussion?--------Location: Wilson, NCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing rib set for sale ?Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:53:17 -0600
Pietenpol-List: wing rib set for sale ?
> Pietenpol-List: build vs. buy?
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Re: Pietenpol-List: build vs. buy?
Original Posted By: "Gene & Tammy"
Tom,This is a great question and one I feel I need to weigh in. This is a big decision you face and one I faced as well. I am an A&P mechanic and a pilot who just got back into the flying game a couple of years ago. I have had some tie to aviation since I was about 15. I am now 44. I have restored several aircraft but have not built from scratch. I have a prewar Taylorcraft to rebuild right now and the desire to build a Pietenpol with my daughter. She is ready to start with me and we are building the wing rib jig together over Thanksgiving break. There's some of the background. A lot more is available if interested.Please note this is only MY opinion, and based on myself and my observations over the years. I have thought this question over many times and seen it in person again and again. If you want to build for the sake of building and creating, then by all means have at it. If you want to build to fly, then get something to fly. You will more than likely, never finish the project. Can you get a good Pietenpol to fly? Absolutely. Can you learn to fly in it? Legally and under the right conditions, yes. Practically speaking, no. Good taildragger instructors are not in abundance and most of them will only instruct in their airplanes. That's where their insurance is. The reality is you will probably need to learn to fly in another airplane, become proficient and confident (those traits are not mutually inclusive) and have at it on your own. Also, please note, that aviation costs money....a lot of it at times. It boils down to how you want to spend your leisure dollar. I used to play a lot of golf when I was between wives. Four hours on a Saturday (at least) and depending on the course and beer cart girl, $100 - $200 to chase a little ball around was not uncommon. Aviation has been cheaper than that for me.So here are my options as I see 'em:1. Rent, learn to fly and build. What if you don't like flying? You can buy a lot of time, pay as you go and learn to fly while building, also, on a pay as you go basis. No hangar, maintenance and insurance to worry about except a renters policy after you solo. Keep flying and stay current, renting while you build. I have a friend of mine who had a Cardinal RG. It flew all the time. He got close to finishing his Marquardt Charger and sold the Cardinal. 18 years later he is still close on the Charger but not current or proficient. Luckily his son has an L-2 and he is back in the air.2. Buy an airplane and learn to fly it. If you don't mind what you are flying, and can pass a medical, 150s can be had for well under 20k if you look. You will get your money out of it when it is time to sell. The same can't necessarily be said for a Pietenpol. If you are a big guy and can pass a medical, Tri-Pacers are not much more. I know of a Tri-Pacer just out of annual that could be had for probably 15k. No beauty queen but a pretty solid airframe. They are out there if you are willing to look.3. Want to own but can't pass a medical? T-Crafts are still reasonable and once in awhile a solid Champ shows up under 20K. Cubs are a premium because they are Cubs but you will never lose money on any of these three. All are taildraggers so you will need a taildragger instructor out of the box.4. Build, then learn to fly. I always see this as the least doable option because of the time and money it takes before one can even get in the air. You will still have to rent to fly, more than likely, and you will be out the same amount of money as you would have in option one, except you have not learned to fly and become proficient during the build time.This is how I see it and certainly am no authority on all aviation. So what did I do? My wife made me get back into the flying part of aviation. For this reason, I am to refer to her as the best wife ever. She just may be. I am lucky in that I have as a good friend, Steve Krog. He and his wife Sharon run the Cub Club, about 35 minutes from my house. If you want a little perspective on the Krog's, see the article in the November 2007 issue of Sport Aviation. I had a 20 year flying layoff and forgot how much fun it was. I got my tailwheel endorsement after about six hours and started having a blast. The opportunity to buy a Cub (through information of a very good friend I met on this list) came up and purchased it in February of this year. I secured a hangar in Hartford with the rest of the Cubs and flew the J-3 from North Carolina to Wisconsin in early May of this year. It was my first cross country flight in 20 years. A big adventure!One other thing that I might as well mention. This is the finest internet list of which I have been a part. I have met several life- long friends from here. We all make the annual trip to Brodhead and have a great time for a couple of days. This list has done much to revitalize the Pietenpol design and show it to younger builders who are turning out excellent versions of this little airplane.So, if I were Tom Anderson what would I really do? I would see if I could take a couple or three weeks, go the Hartford, WI and learn to fly a Cub as a Sport Pilot. Last I knew, the hourly rate was $85. Cheap in this day and age. Then I would buy a Champ to fly, while I built my Pietenpol. When that was done, I would sell the Champ for more than I paid for it and as to paraphrase Walt, "Life would be grand."Of course your mileage may vary,-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800Madison, WI 53718Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Nov 13, 2008, at 3:26 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:> >>> For those of you that have built a Piet in the past 5 yrs. or so, > would you be willing to share how much your overall costs were?> In talking with several members on this forum (thanks Jack, Jeff, > and a couple of others), I have come to the conclusion that I'm > likely not going to save much, if anything, by building a Piet. In > fact, I've come to the conclusion that it may be in my best interest > to purchase a well-built one that's already got the minimum hours > flown off it and just learn to fly it. Then, when the kids have > left home and I'm bored in my older age, build me one just like I > want, if I'm still inclined to do so.>> Any comments, suggestions, or meaningful discussion?>> --------> Location: Wilson, NC>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Tom,This is a great question and one I feel I need to weigh in. This is a big decision you face and one I faced as well. I am an A&P mechanic and a pilot who just got back into the flying game a couple of years ago. I have had some tie to aviation since I was about 15. I am now 44. I have restored several aircraft but have not built from scratch. I have a prewar Taylorcraft to rebuild right now and the desire to build a Pietenpol with my daughter. She is ready to start with me and we are building the wing rib jig together over Thanksgiving break. There's some of the background. A lot more is available if interested.Please note this is only MY opinion, and based on myself and my observations over the years. I have thought this question over many times and seen it in person again and again. If you want to build for the sake of building and creating, then by all means have at it. If you want to build to fly, then get something to fly. You will more than likely, never finish the project. Can you get a good Pietenpol to fly? Absolutely. Can you learn to fly in it? Legally and under the right conditions, yes. Practically speaking, no. Good taildragger instructors are not in abundance and most of them will only instruct in their airplanes. That's where their insurance is. The reality is you will probably need to learn to fly in another airplane, become proficient and confident (those traits are not mutually inclusive) and have at it on your own. Also, please note, that aviation costs money....a lot of it at times. It boils down to how you want to spend your leisure dollar. I used to play a lot of golf when I was between wives. Four hours on a Saturday (at least) and depending on the course and beer cart girl, $100 - $200 to chase a little ball around was not uncommon. Aviation has been cheaper than that for me.So here are my options as I see 'em:1. Rent, learn to fly and build. What if you don't like flying? You can buy a lot of time, pay as you go and learn to fly while building, also, on a pay as you go basis. No hangar, maintenance and insurance to worry about except a renters policy after you solo. Keep flying and stay current, renting while you build. I have a friend of mine who had a Cardinal RG. It flew all the time. He got close to finishing his Marquardt Charger and sold the Cardinal. 18 years later he is still close on the Charger but not current or proficient. Luckily his son has an L-2 and he is back in the air.2. Buy an airplane and learn to fly it. If you don't mind what you are flying, and can pass a medical, 150s can be had for well under 20k if you look. You will get your money out of it when it is time to sell. The same can't necessarily be said for a Pietenpol. If you are a big guy and can pass a medical, Tri-Pacers are not much more. I know of a Tri-Pacer just out of annual that could be had for probably 15k. No beauty queen but a pretty solid airframe. They are out there if you are willing to look.3. Want to own but can't pass a medical? T-Crafts are still reasonable and once in awhile a solid Champ shows up under 20K. Cubs are a premium because they are Cubs but you will never lose money on any of these three. All are taildraggers so you will need a taildragger instructor out of the box.4. Build, then learn to fly. I always see this as the least doable option because of the time and money it takes before one can even get in the air. You will still have to rent to fly, more than likely, and you will be out the same amount of money as you would have in option one, except you have not learned to fly and become proficient during the build time.This is how I see it and certainly am no authority on all aviation. So what did I do? My wife made me get back into the flying part of aviation. For this reason, I am to refer to her as the best wife ever. She just may be. I am lucky in that I have as a good friend, Steve Krog. He and his wife Sharon run the Cub Club, about 35 minutes from my house. If you want a little perspective on the Krog's, see the article in the November 2007 issue of Sport Aviation. I had a 20 year flying layoff and forgot how much fun it was. I got my tailwheel endorsement after about six hours and started having a blast. The opportunity to buy a Cub (through information of a very good friend I met on this list) came up and purchased it in February of this year. I secured a hangar in Hartford with the rest of the Cubs and flew the J-3 from North Carolina to Wisconsin in early May of this year. It was my first cross country flight in 20 years. A big adventure!One other thing that I might as well mention. This is the finest internet list of which I have been a part. I have met several life- long friends from here. We all make the annual trip to Brodhead and have a great time for a couple of days. This list has done much to revitalize the Pietenpol design and show it to younger builders who are turning out excellent versions of this little airplane.So, if I were Tom Anderson what would I really do? I would see if I could take a couple or three weeks, go the Hartford, WI and learn to fly a Cub as a Sport Pilot. Last I knew, the hourly rate was $85. Cheap in this day and age. Then I would buy a Champ to fly, while I built my Pietenpol. When that was done, I would sell the Champ for more than I paid for it and as to paraphrase Walt, "Life would be grand."Of course your mileage may vary,-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800Madison, WI 53718Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Nov 13, 2008, at 3:26 PM, Tom Anderson wrote:> >>> For those of you that have built a Piet in the past 5 yrs. or so, > would you be willing to share how much your overall costs were?> In talking with several members on this forum (thanks Jack, Jeff, > and a couple of others), I have come to the conclusion that I'm > likely not going to save much, if anything, by building a Piet. In > fact, I've come to the conclusion that it may be in my best interest > to purchase a well-built one that's already got the minimum hours > flown off it and just learn to fly it. Then, when the kids have > left home and I'm bored in my older age, build me one just like I > want, if I'm still inclined to do so.>> Any comments, suggestions, or meaningful discussion?>> --------> Location: Wilson, NC>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: build vs. buy?
Original Posted By: "Jim Ash"
Not completely correct. You would need to get a "condition inspection" not an annual for an experimental airplane. A lot of A & P's I know will let you do most, if not all, of the condition inspection under their supervision. On the experimentals I have owned I have usually paid between $50.00 and $150.00 for a condition inspection. Well worth the price to have another set of trained eyes looking over everything. I like to fly and can't affort to own a plane and build at the same time so buying a completed Piet was a good way for me to go. Besides, an experimentel airplane is never done and I'm always tinkering with it anyway.If you follow the airplanes selling on E-bay and Barnstormers have you ever wondered why there are so many homebuilt planes with 0 or very few hours for sale? So many of these have been built by folks that are going to wait until the plane is finished to learn to fly. Many times they have either gotten too old or they find they really don't like to fly. If you love to build then build for the love of it, not to get a cheap airplane. Many time (really I'd say most times) you can buy a well built experimental for less than you can build one for.My 2 cents worthGene in beautiful Tennessee (spent the first half of the afternoon flying the Piet and the second half riding the Gold Wing. Life just doesn't get any better)Original Message -----
Not completely correct. You would need to get a "condition inspection" not an annual for an experimental airplane. A lot of A & P's I know will let you do most, if not all, of the condition inspection under their supervision. On the experimentals I have owned I have usually paid between $50.00 and $150.00 for a condition inspection. Well worth the price to have another set of trained eyes looking over everything. I like to fly and can't affort to own a plane and build at the same time so buying a completed Piet was a good way for me to go. Besides, an experimentel airplane is never done and I'm always tinkering with it anyway.If you follow the airplanes selling on E-bay and Barnstormers have you ever wondered why there are so many homebuilt planes with 0 or very few hours for sale? So many of these have been built by folks that are going to wait until the plane is finished to learn to fly. Many times they have either gotten too old or they find they really don't like to fly. If you love to build then build for the love of it, not to get a cheap airplane. Many time (really I'd say most times) you can buy a well built experimental for less than you can build one for.My 2 cents worthGene in beautiful Tennessee (spent the first half of the afternoon flying the Piet and the second half riding the Gold Wing. Life just doesn't get any better)Original Message -----
>> Pietenpol-List: build vs. buy?
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Pietenpol-List: Re: wing rib set for sale ?
Original Posted By: Roy Brooks
I HAVE A COMPLETE SET OF GN1 RIBS, SPARS AND ALL THE METAL FITTINGs (LAZER CUT)FOR SALE IF THAT INTERESTS HIM. ($800.00)Chriscrusch(at)lakefield.netRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I HAVE A COMPLETE SET OF GN1 RIBS, SPARS AND ALL THE METAL FITTINGs (LAZER CUT)FOR SALE IF THAT INTERESTS HIM. ($800.00)Chriscrusch(at)lakefield.netRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________