Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Since it's so slow here on the list, I'll review my elevator trim system a bit. If you noticed the last photo on my "first flight" webpage, http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/Firstflight.html , you may have noticed that on the ground the elevators are nearly neutral when the stick isn't secured aft with the safety belt. That's due to the bungee tensioner that I installed for elevator trim.We haven't flown it on any cross-country yet, but around the pattern it seems just about right for stick forces. What I did was just take out some of the heaviness with the bungee, but additional back pressure can be applied if needed in cruise. I've employed the "cord with knots, dropped into a notch" method, with the bungee attached to the elevator bellcrank back in the fuselage. The pilot can reach down to the right side front of the seat and grab a ring, pull the cord out to the next knot, drop it in that slot, or vice versa to back off. The idea is not to use this in the pattern, but at cruise where it's needed. In the pattern, the stick pressures have not been heavy at all. That was somewhat of a surprise to me at first, because when it's sitting on the ground the stick makes all kinds of noises and has quite a bit of resistance to being stirred around. In flight it's very responsive and smooth.The last time I flew a Cub, maybe 6 years ago, I remember the stick being pretty heavy to hold back once you pulled power abeam the numbers and set up your glide unless you started cranking in some trim. The Piet seems to have pretty light stick forces, but maybe that means my bungee system is helping. I should disconnect it to see what difference it makes. Something else to play with.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: elevator trim
Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trim
Original Posted By: "Roman Bukolt"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trimOscar,I have incorporated a similar bungee system, also applying pressures to the elevator bellcrank, either up or down. The mechanism I devised to apply the "pulls" on the bungee's is a square-tube-inside-a-square tube- slider, with aspring-loaded pin to set it where you want. Initially wanted to have it with a tensioned lever, but couldn't find a place to put it and make it work theway I wanted. The slider tubes are mounted on the floor down to the left side. Not sure how this will prove out, but it will be interesting. How haveothers coped with this problem? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trimOscar,I have incorporated a similar bungee system, also applying pressures to the elevator bellcrank, either up or down. The mechanism I devised to apply the "pulls" on the bungee's is a square-tube-inside-a-square tube- slider, with aspring-loaded pin to set it where you want. Initially wanted to have it with a tensioned lever, but couldn't find a place to put it and make it work theway I wanted. The slider tubes are mounted on the floor down to the left side. Not sure how this will prove out, but it will be interesting. How haveothers coped with this problem? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trim
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Elevator trim. As I understand it if your CG is aft you usually need forward pressure on the stick to maintain level flight, and aft pressure if your CG is forward.On both Bill Rewey's plane and mine, our CG is aft so we both need forward pressure.I followed Bill's elevator trim idea.He has a loose fitting rubber lined Adel ( ? ) clamp on the stick with a bunge cord attached between the clamp and a mount down low on the front seat back just above where the control shaft goes forward under the front seat. The trim is easy to adjust by sliding the clamp up or down the joy stick. The downward pull on the clamp causes it to bind and stay where you put it. On his long trips ( four of them to Sun N Fun) he was able to leave the stick unattended long enough to unfold and study charts, take photos, and look through airport directories for suitable fuel stops. When it came time to land or take off, you simply slide the clamp down to take the load off.Or you stilll have full control of thestick with the clamp in place because of the stretch ability of the bunge. So, I did the same for my Piet. Works for me!Roman Bukolt Nx20795----- Original Message -----
Elevator trim. As I understand it if your CG is aft you usually need forward pressure on the stick to maintain level flight, and aft pressure if your CG is forward.On both Bill Rewey's plane and mine, our CG is aft so we both need forward pressure.I followed Bill's elevator trim idea.He has a loose fitting rubber lined Adel ( ? ) clamp on the stick with a bunge cord attached between the clamp and a mount down low on the front seat back just above where the control shaft goes forward under the front seat. The trim is easy to adjust by sliding the clamp up or down the joy stick. The downward pull on the clamp causes it to bind and stay where you put it. On his long trips ( four of them to Sun N Fun) he was able to leave the stick unattended long enough to unfold and study charts, take photos, and look through airport directories for suitable fuel stops. When it came time to land or take off, you simply slide the clamp down to take the load off.Or you stilll have full control of thestick with the clamp in place because of the stretch ability of the bunge. So, I did the same for my Piet. Works for me!Roman Bukolt Nx20795----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: elevator trim
Original Posted By: "Peter W Johnson"
Roman-Just out of curiosity, do your and Bill Rewey's planes have the fuel tanks in the wing center section or out ahead in the nose cowling? If your fuel is in the wing, maybe that's why you need forward stick to trim it in cruise.41CC has the fuel in the nose cowling ahead of the front cockpit and neither Charlie nor I weigh all that much so with full fuel it has needed aft stick to trim it in cruise. That's what it needed when Corky -er, Nathan- and Edwin flew it. Corky had a bungee wrapped around the stick to apply back pressure, with the "slide it up the stick for more, down the stick for less" like you have except pulling back instead of forward.Every Piet is different! Aren't you glad we're not all building RV-somethings? ;o)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________>From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007 ... __________
Roman-Just out of curiosity, do your and Bill Rewey's planes have the fuel tanks in the wing center section or out ahead in the nose cowling? If your fuel is in the wing, maybe that's why you need forward stick to trim it in cruise.41CC has the fuel in the nose cowling ahead of the front cockpit and neither Charlie nor I weigh all that much so with full fuel it has needed aft stick to trim it in cruise. That's what it needed when Corky -er, Nathan- and Edwin flew it. Corky had a bungee wrapped around the stick to apply back pressure, with the "slide it up the stick for more, down the stick for less" like you have except pulling back instead of forward.Every Piet is different! Aren't you glad we're not all building RV-somethings? ;o)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________>From predictions to trailers, check out the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007 ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trim
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trimIn a message dated 2/12/2007 3:31:25 PM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes:How have others coped with this problem? I used fixed tabs on the trailing edge of the flippers. Simple install, and no moving parts.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trimIn a message dated 2/12/2007 3:31:25 PM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes:How have others coped with this problem? I used fixed tabs on the trailing edge of the flippers. Simple install, and no moving parts.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trim
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Bill Rewey's tank is in the wing and mine is in the fuselage.I know Bill swung his wing back 4 in. to put the CG in the correct range.In my case the plane was built for a Corvair and actually had 17 lbs. of lead in the tail.Then when Ray Hill, the builder changed to the Cont. A-65 He made the engine mount 4 inchesshorter than the one shown on Bernie's plan. ????So my CG was at 39% when I bought the plane.I've since installed a battery and angle iron rack on the firewall to add 30 lbs. to the nose.Now, if I fly solo and have 5 gal. left in the tank (about 2 1/2hrs. flying starting with a full 15 gal.) my CG will be just inside 33%.----- Original Message -----
Bill Rewey's tank is in the wing and mine is in the fuselage.I know Bill swung his wing back 4 in. to put the CG in the correct range.In my case the plane was built for a Corvair and actually had 17 lbs. of lead in the tail.Then when Ray Hill, the builder changed to the Cont. A-65 He made the engine mount 4 inchesshorter than the one shown on Bernie's plan. ????So my CG was at 39% when I bought the plane.I've since installed a battery and angle iron rack on the firewall to add 30 lbs. to the nose.Now, if I fly solo and have 5 gal. left in the tank (about 2 1/2hrs. flying starting with a full 15 gal.) my CG will be just inside 33%.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: elevator trim
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Thanks guys for all the great info and sites about duplicators and carving. Ihadn't seen the sites before and it made for some great reading. Chuck, I'm goingto order that book from EAA. The more I think about and study props, themore it interests me.Thanks again,Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: elevator trim
Thanks guys for all the great info and sites about duplicators and carving. Ihadn't seen the sites before and it made for some great reading. Chuck, I'm goingto order that book from EAA. The more I think about and study props, themore it interests me.Thanks again,Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: elevator trim
Original Posted By: "Roman Bukolt"
I don't think I have ever heard of a shorter than plans engine mount. I thinkit would surely be worth a 30lbs. weight savings to build a new longer mount,according to plans. Just a thought though. 30 lbs. savings is quite a bit forus.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I don't think I have ever heard of a shorter than plans engine mount. I thinkit would surely be worth a 30lbs. weight savings to build a new longer mount,according to plans. Just a thought though. 30 lbs. savings is quite a bit forus.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: elevator trim
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Then I'd have to build a whole new cowl.I'd rather use my building time on the Piet I'm building in my basement.----- Original Message -----
Then I'd have to build a whole new cowl.I'd rather use my building time on the Piet I'm building in my basement.----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trim
Original Posted By: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trimIn a message dated 2/13/2007 10:36:31 AM Central Standard Time, conceptmodels(at)tds.net writes:Now, if I fly solo and have 5 gal. left in the tank (about 2 1/2hrs. flying starting with a full 15 gal.) my CG will be just inside 33%.Roman,It is important to maintain the CG ahead of the Aft limit, with ZER0 fuel aboard, and you in the cockpit. If we introduce a scenario where you endup with below minimum fuel, or run out of fuel, you will be Aft CG, and would be fortunate to walk away from the landing.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trimIn a message dated 2/13/2007 10:36:31 AM Central Standard Time, conceptmodels(at)tds.net writes:Now, if I fly solo and have 5 gal. left in the tank (about 2 1/2hrs. flying starting with a full 15 gal.) my CG will be just inside 33%.Roman,It is important to maintain the CG ahead of the Aft limit, with ZER0 fuel aboard, and you in the cockpit. If we introduce a scenario where you endup with below minimum fuel, or run out of fuel, you will be Aft CG, and would be fortunate to walk away from the landing.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: elevator trim
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
That's why I always take off with a full tank and start looking to land after 2 hrs. of flying.I did make a form fit 22 lb. lead wt that can be bolted to the top of my A-65 crankcase, if the time should ever come when I want to fly a long cross country flight. ----- Original Message -----
That's why I always take off with a full tank and start looking to land after 2 hrs. of flying.I did make a form fit 22 lb. lead wt that can be bolted to the top of my A-65 crankcase, if the time should ever come when I want to fly a long cross country flight. ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: elevator trim
Original Posted By: John Smoyer
Chuck,I think that's advice everyone with nose tanks should be listening to. Even thoughthe Piet seems to be forgiving of a somewhat aft c.g., too far aft is badnews!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:14:22 -0800 (PST)
Chuck,I think that's advice everyone with nose tanks should be listening to. Even thoughthe Piet seems to be forgiving of a somewhat aft c.g., too far aft is badnews!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:14:22 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: elevator trim
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
I took a few pictures of my elevator trim system and put them up on a webpage today=2C athttp://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/trim.htmlOscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:12:12 -0500
I took a few pictures of my elevator trim system and put them up on a webpage today=2C athttp://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/trim.htmlOscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 23:12:12 -0500