Original Posted By: "rambog(at)erols.com"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: QuestionsGene: ( re-low response to some questions ) I for one sometimes am alittle bit leary about making suggestions about what I am doing becauseI haven't flown yet and my suggestions may not prove out in flight, thenI would feel bad for passing along an idea that turned out to be crap,but here is what I am doing on my engine mt. I am extending my ashengine mt. 4 inches longer than the plans. The main reason is because onthe engine I bought ( already converted ) the builder didn't shorten thewater pump as shown on the plans. Also the Fairbanks Morris mag. has along slender input shaft making the engine length longer than the plans.If I didn't move the engine foreward I would need to cut a hole in theback of the shelf for the end of the mag. Another reason, Ken Perkins (Orange and cream Piet - Brodhead last 3 years ) with a tail wheel, nowing slant back, at least 230 lbs had to remake his engine mt. 7 inlonger to properly balance it. Also, Chuck Ganzer- ( no small guy, butlooks slim next to Ken ) with a tail skid and wing moved back 4 in. hadto cast a 14 lb. lead doughnut which he placed on the Model A's nosebehind the cowling nose bowl. I'm hoping 4 in. extension works for me.If anything I would like to be nose heavy during weigh in, then I canbalance it with a few oz.'s of lead or something on the tail. Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Questions
Pietenpol-List: Questions
Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: QuestionsGene: ( re-low response to some questions ) I for one sometimes am alittle bit leary about making suggestions about what I am doing becauseI haven't flown yet and my suggestions may not prove out in flight, thenI would feel bad for passing along an idea that turned out to be crap,but here is what I am doing on my engine mt. I am extending my ashengine mt. 4 inches longer than the plans. The main reason is because onthe engine I bought ( already converted ) the builder didn't shorten thewater pump as shown on the plans. Also the Fairbanks Morris mag. has along slender input shaft making the engine length longer than the plans.If I didn't move the engine foreward I would need to cut a hole in theback of the shelf for the end of the mag. Another reason, Ken Perkins (Orange and cream Piet - Brodhead last 3 years ) with a tail wheel, nowing slant back, at least 230 lbs had to remake his engine mt. 7 inlonger to properly balance it. Also, Chuck Ganzer- ( no small guy, butlooks slim next to Ken ) with a tail skid and wing moved back 4 in. hadto cast a 14 lb. lead doughnut which he placed on the Model A's nosebehind the cowling nose bowl. I'm hoping 4 in. extension works for me.If anything I would like to be nose heavy during weigh in, then I canbalance it with a few oz.'s of lead or something on the tail. Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: QuestionsGene: ( re-low response to some questions ) I for one sometimes am alittle bit leary about making suggestions about what I am doing becauseI haven't flown yet and my suggestions may not prove out in flight, thenI would feel bad for passing along an idea that turned out to be crap,but here is what I am doing on my engine mt. I am extending my ashengine mt. 4 inches longer than the plans. The main reason is because onthe engine I bought ( already converted ) the builder didn't shorten thewater pump as shown on the plans. Also the Fairbanks Morris mag. has along slender input shaft making the engine length longer than the plans.If I didn't move the engine foreward I would need to cut a hole in theback of the shelf for the end of the mag. Another reason, Ken Perkins (Orange and cream Piet - Brodhead last 3 years ) with a tail wheel, nowing slant back, at least 230 lbs had to remake his engine mt. 7 inlonger to properly balance it. Also, Chuck Ganzer- ( no small guy, butlooks slim next to Ken ) with a tail skid and wing moved back 4 in. hadto cast a 14 lb. lead doughnut which he placed on the Model A's nosebehind the cowling nose bowl. I'm hoping 4 in. extension works for me.If anything I would like to be nose heavy during weigh in, then I canbalance it with a few oz.'s of lead or something on the tail. Leon S.________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Questions
Original Posted By: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Thanks Leon, don't ever doubt your opinions. Are you planning to make theengine mount tubing extend all the way out to the end of the ash as well? What about drop, are you making the downthrust one inch at the 21 1/2 inchpoint as per the plans (I don't remember what the plans say, something likethat)so that the drop at the end of your extended mount will be lower,although at the same angle as the plans?GeneOriginal Message:-----------------
Thanks Leon, don't ever doubt your opinions. Are you planning to make theengine mount tubing extend all the way out to the end of the ash as well? What about drop, are you making the downthrust one inch at the 21 1/2 inchpoint as per the plans (I don't remember what the plans say, something likethat)so that the drop at the end of your extended mount will be lower,although at the same angle as the plans?GeneOriginal Message:-----------------
Re: Pietenpol-List: Minimum Bend Radiuses
Original Posted By: cat_designs(at)juno.com
Does anyone have a bend chart for 4130 fittings or know where to download one.I have seen many over the years, but now when we need one, presto! they are hiding.ThanksBarry DavisBought another Corvair yesterday and assembled and glued another wing panel lastnight, only 9 more to go. Wheee________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:24:58 GMTSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Minimum Bend Radiuses
Does anyone have a bend chart for 4130 fittings or know where to download one.I have seen many over the years, but now when we need one, presto! they are hiding.ThanksBarry DavisBought another Corvair yesterday and assembled and glued another wing panel lastnight, only 9 more to go. Wheee________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:24:58 GMTSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Minimum Bend Radiuses
Re: Pietenpol-List: Minimum Bend Radiuses
Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
Page 60 of my Aircraft Spruce catalog.Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion ClubNewsletter Editor & EAA TCwww.bellanca-championclub.comActively supporting Aeroncas----- Original Message -----
Page 60 of my Aircraft Spruce catalog.Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion ClubNewsletter Editor & EAA TCwww.bellanca-championclub.comActively supporting Aeroncas----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Questions
Original Posted By: "walt evans"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: QuestionsI've seen mentioned not only 1/16-inch ply, but also 1/8 and even 1/4 ply for the front fuselage front skins -- which is correct?Also, what is the best motorcycle wheel to use for the landing gear, or are most folks building their own hubs, etc?What is the best magneto set-up for a Model A engine? What about the coupling? Fred B.La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: QuestionsI've seen mentioned not only 1/16-inch ply, but also 1/8 and even 1/4 ply for the front fuselage front skins -- which is correct?Also, what is the best motorcycle wheel to use for the landing gear, or are most folks building their own hubs, etc?What is the best magneto set-up for a Model A engine? What about the coupling? Fred B.La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Questions
Original Posted By: TBYH(at)aol.com
Fred,The normally accepted is 1/4 for the bottom, 1/8 for the sides, 1/16 for all gussets.All the rest for seats, panels etc. vary. Check the prints.I built my own wheels (hubs), and they've given me good servicewalt evansNX140DL ----- Original Message -----
Fred,The normally accepted is 1/4 for the bottom, 1/8 for the sides, 1/16 for all gussets.All the rest for seats, panels etc. vary. Check the prints.I built my own wheels (hubs), and they've given me good servicewalt evansNX140DL ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Questions
Original Posted By: "Gene & Tammy"
Hi everyone My fuse is coming along great but I have a couple of questions.Where the plans call for a 3/16 hole for the cabane fittings is that for a AN3bolt?When fitting the tail the rear most horizontal stab fittings under the stab doyou use one bolt to go right through both fittings and do I need some sort ofshim to square things up because of the fuse angle?Or maybe a better question is how do I fit the tail fittings to the fuse?ThanksCarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hi everyone My fuse is coming along great but I have a couple of questions.Where the plans call for a 3/16 hole for the cabane fittings is that for a AN3bolt?When fitting the tail the rear most horizontal stab fittings under the stab doyou use one bolt to go right through both fittings and do I need some sort ofshim to square things up because of the fuse angle?Or maybe a better question is how do I fit the tail fittings to the fuse?ThanksCarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Questions
Original Posted By: "carson"
Hey everybody,Got the engine mounted finally and am starting to connect things up andfinish all the little things on the fuse.My question is this.For those of you finished, when did you paint the fuselage in the process?It seems to make sense to get everything fabricated and assembled, thendisassemble and paint but that seems like it might be uncecessary work. Icould paint the fabric now, but I'm afraid of messing it up as everything isfitted and affixed etc.Also, if I plumb for my wing tank, do I do it with the sheet metal off foreasier access, and if so, can you get the sheet metal down over the fuellines sticking up from the fuse?Appreciate any tips.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Questions
Hey everybody,Got the engine mounted finally and am starting to connect things up andfinish all the little things on the fuse.My question is this.For those of you finished, when did you paint the fuselage in the process?It seems to make sense to get everything fabricated and assembled, thendisassemble and paint but that seems like it might be uncecessary work. Icould paint the fabric now, but I'm afraid of messing it up as everything isfitted and affixed etc.Also, if I plumb for my wing tank, do I do it with the sheet metal off foreasier access, and if so, can you get the sheet metal down over the fuellines sticking up from the fuse?Appreciate any tips.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Questions
Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
Hi allAfter posting this question I finally found the answers 3/16=an3A found some pictures on west coast Piet of Santiago Morete's and realised howstupid I really am to have not of thought to do it that way.CarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:28:53 -0800
Hi allAfter posting this question I finally found the answers 3/16=an3A found some pictures on west coast Piet of Santiago Morete's and realised howstupid I really am to have not of thought to do it that way.CarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:28:53 -0800
Pietenpol-List: Value of the List...
Original Posted By: Richard Carden
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
Original Posted By: "Richard Carden"
I tried one of the hardware store brands on a couple of repair pieces a while back and it came out with more yellow color than other parts. I like Marine Spar Varnish by Minnwax. According to the tech rep from West System, it is slower to totally cure than other varnishes. I don't know if that means much of anything, but I think a slower cure should mean a more durable finish in the end.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
I tried one of the hardware store brands on a couple of repair pieces a while back and it came out with more yellow color than other parts. I like Marine Spar Varnish by Minnwax. According to the tech rep from West System, it is slower to totally cure than other varnishes. I don't know if that means much of anything, but I think a slower cure should mean a more durable finish in the end.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
Original Posted By: "Richard Carden"
The type of spar varnish you use is not important (ie. brand) as is the type of covering system you use. An example would be if you use Poly Fiber system, the Poly Tack glue will melt common spar varnish. But if you use the Stewart System (water based) any spar varnish is ok.In the case of Poly Products, it is best to use a Epoxy based varnish.Ernie----- Original Message -----
The type of spar varnish you use is not important (ie. brand) as is the type of covering system you use. An example would be if you use Poly Fiber system, the Poly Tack glue will melt common spar varnish. But if you use the Stewart System (water based) any spar varnish is ok.In the case of Poly Products, it is best to use a Epoxy based varnish.Ernie----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
Original Posted By: "walt"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar VarnishDoug Bryant and Chuck Ganzer used Ace spar varnish and told me that theglue they used didn't lift the varnish,- however, I never asked whatthey used. I just assumed it was Poly Fiber (Stitts) Chuck, if yourlistening, chime in. Leon S. in Ks.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:36:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar VarnishDoug Bryant and Chuck Ganzer used Ace spar varnish and told me that theglue they used didn't lift the varnish,- however, I never asked whatthey used. I just assumed it was Poly Fiber (Stitts) Chuck, if yourlistening, chime in. Leon S. in Ks.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:36:18 -0500
Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Ben;I'm quite interested in your latex application technique. You say "thinned". Does that mean you used Floetrol or water? Two completely different things, asI understand it... water will thin the paint but Floetrol makes it flow out.Not sure how much of that is product hype and how much is real. Either way,one or the other is necessary for shooting latex from a regular gun so I'm curiousas to your technique.So far, nothing but the very best for my "Flying Squirrel" fiberglass project airplane...genuine Wal-Mart flat grey and flat white primers, never pay more than$2 per rattle can ;o) However, if I ever get around to building the ultralightversion of the Longster that I have in mind, it will be fabric covered andI'd like to use latex house paint on it. So far my experience with tryingto shoot latex house paint from a regular gun has been less than fantastic, butI was too cheap to buy Floetrol and I work in pretty warm weather, which leadsto instant nozzle clogging.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:14:59 -0500
Ben;I'm quite interested in your latex application technique. You say "thinned". Does that mean you used Floetrol or water? Two completely different things, asI understand it... water will thin the paint but Floetrol makes it flow out.Not sure how much of that is product hype and how much is real. Either way,one or the other is necessary for shooting latex from a regular gun so I'm curiousas to your technique.So far, nothing but the very best for my "Flying Squirrel" fiberglass project airplane...genuine Wal-Mart flat grey and flat white primers, never pay more than$2 per rattle can ;o) However, if I ever get around to building the ultralightversion of the Longster that I have in mind, it will be fabric covered andI'd like to use latex house paint on it. So far my experience with tryingto shoot latex house paint from a regular gun has been less than fantastic, butI was too cheap to buy Floetrol and I work in pretty warm weather, which leadsto instant nozzle clogging.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:14:59 -0500
RE: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hope you're right, Dick. I'm using spar varnish from Zinsser (Home Depot).It takes a couple days to dry at 75 deg / 30% humidity! If varnish isanything like cement, we're in good shape. :-)Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)(12 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Hope you're right, Dick. I'm using spar varnish from Zinsser (Home Depot).It takes a couple days to dry at 75 deg / 30% humidity! If varnish isanything like cement, we're in good shape. :-)Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)(12 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish, glue alternatives
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Oscar, I do not think that the latex house paint is a good cover process for aircraft because of the weight of the paint. The Poly, Stewart, etc etc are light weight processes for aircraft. The latex method has only in my opinion, one good feature, it is cheap.Ernie----- Original Message -----
Oscar, I do not think that the latex house paint is a good cover process for aircraft because of the weight of the paint. The Poly, Stewart, etc etc are light weight processes for aircraft. The latex method has only in my opinion, one good feature, it is cheap.Ernie----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Spar Varnish
Original Posted By: "Ryan Mueller"
Hi Gene,You said you are using Polyurethane varnish. I'm no expert on the subject but I think I have read reports that polyurethane varnish doesn't let the wood 'breath' properly. Apparently 'normal varnish' (whatever that is) will let the wood swell and contract as it likes.I heard that with polyurethane, as the wood expands and contracts, the fibers eventually become damage due to the polyurethane varnish not flexing along with the wood.....................At the place that I work here in Japan, we just use a clear spar type varnish from the local paint shop or in some cases, a thin coat of whatever glue we are using at the time. (only for small areas, i.e.; rib gussets etc)Japan's climate is fairly 'moist' (summer is very humid, then there is the rainy season as well) and I have seen cases here of wooden aircraft that spend their life outside, having a wooden member which has basically rotted away with the polyurethane coating still 'intact' so to speak !.After saying all of that, in my copy of EAA Aircraft Building Techniques 'WOOD' book, on pg 94, under the sub heading "Protection against deterioration", Tony Bingelis said (quote) "This treatment followed by 2 or 3 coats of a good polyurethane varnish applied to the structure helps seal the wood and reduce its sensitivity to humidity changes".He also said that T-88 epoxy glue thinned with lacquer to a brushing consistency is a good surface treatment.I think is Tony's advice in his books/articles is generally very good so I am in two minds on this subject.So,has anyone else had long term experience with polyurethane varnishes on wood?Mark________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:42:31 -0600
Hi Gene,You said you are using Polyurethane varnish. I'm no expert on the subject but I think I have read reports that polyurethane varnish doesn't let the wood 'breath' properly. Apparently 'normal varnish' (whatever that is) will let the wood swell and contract as it likes.I heard that with polyurethane, as the wood expands and contracts, the fibers eventually become damage due to the polyurethane varnish not flexing along with the wood.....................At the place that I work here in Japan, we just use a clear spar type varnish from the local paint shop or in some cases, a thin coat of whatever glue we are using at the time. (only for small areas, i.e.; rib gussets etc)Japan's climate is fairly 'moist' (summer is very humid, then there is the rainy season as well) and I have seen cases here of wooden aircraft that spend their life outside, having a wooden member which has basically rotted away with the polyurethane coating still 'intact' so to speak !.After saying all of that, in my copy of EAA Aircraft Building Techniques 'WOOD' book, on pg 94, under the sub heading "Protection against deterioration", Tony Bingelis said (quote) "This treatment followed by 2 or 3 coats of a good polyurethane varnish applied to the structure helps seal the wood and reduce its sensitivity to humidity changes".He also said that T-88 epoxy glue thinned with lacquer to a brushing consistency is a good surface treatment.I think is Tony's advice in his books/articles is generally very good so I am in two minds on this subject.So,has anyone else had long term experience with polyurethane varnishes on wood?Mark________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:42:31 -0600