Original Posted By: seibert(at)swbell.net
I've got the steel list that Don Pietenpol provides with his plans, butdoes anyone have a complete materials list?Larry________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Materials List
Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: "carson"
Hello all,This might be a tedious question (my apologies in advance). This is my first postinghere. I ordered Piet plans from Don/Andrew. I am hoping to put in an orderfor wood before my plans arrive for the aircamper, as I am off to fly a tripin 6 days. I could be gone for more than 2 weeks. My hope is to hit the ground running when I get back home in May, as I have 2 weekshome each month to "toss her together". I am seeking a materials list forjust the wing ribs and tailfeather material so as to place an order w/aircraftspruce or wicks this week, thereby possibly saving a months time awaiting delivery.Any takers? Thanks in advance..Rgrds;LarryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Hello all,This might be a tedious question (my apologies in advance). This is my first postinghere. I ordered Piet plans from Don/Andrew. I am hoping to put in an orderfor wood before my plans arrive for the aircamper, as I am off to fly a tripin 6 days. I could be gone for more than 2 weeks. My hope is to hit the ground running when I get back home in May, as I have 2 weekshome each month to "toss her together". I am seeking a materials list forjust the wing ribs and tailfeather material so as to place an order w/aircraftspruce or wicks this week, thereby possibly saving a months time awaiting delivery.Any takers? Thanks in advance..Rgrds;LarryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Im just heading out the door for 3 days myself,I can give you mine when I get backif no one else replies,I only have a hard copy so will have to type it outCarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Im just heading out the door for 3 days myself,I can give you mine when I get backif no one else replies,I only have a hard copy so will have to type it outCarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Materials List
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Larry,Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols and Pietenpol builders. It'sbeen a while since I built mine (particularly the ribs), so I'm going on oldmemory, but as I recall, it takes 3 6' lengths of 1/4" x 1/2" for each rib,plus gusset material.Are you planning to use aircraft grade materials? If so you will likely beordering from Wicks or Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. Shipping gets prettyexpensive, because the big pieces (like 4' x 8' sheetsof plywood, and sparsand longerons) are too big to go UPS and must be shipped by truck.Generally the shipping costs at least $150, so you should try to order itall at once. Shipping one spar costs $150. Shipping four spars and fourlongerons and several sheets of plywood probably costs around $165.If you want to just get enough to do the ribs, you will be better off toorder a few pieces of plywood sheets, so they can ship more cheaply. Youcan order 2' x 4' sections and pay a little more for the wood but save a loton the shipping. 6' pieces of spruce can also ship cheaply, so I would say,for the ribs, order 90, 6' pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" spruce capstrip, and acouple of 2'x4' pieces of 1/16" plywood (birch or mahogany - your choice).If you order from Aircraft Spruce, I would also buy their "Bargain Bag ofSpruce" - it truly is a baragin and you will get several nice pieces ofspruce that you will find uses for at some point in your project. You willalso need glue (I use resorcinol, everybody else uses T-88) and a pound of1/2" AN501 nails, and that should be enough to atleast get you through theribs.Have Fun!Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh,NC-----Original Message-----
Larry,Welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols and Pietenpol builders. It'sbeen a while since I built mine (particularly the ribs), so I'm going on oldmemory, but as I recall, it takes 3 6' lengths of 1/4" x 1/2" for each rib,plus gusset material.Are you planning to use aircraft grade materials? If so you will likely beordering from Wicks or Aircraft Spruce & Specialty. Shipping gets prettyexpensive, because the big pieces (like 4' x 8' sheetsof plywood, and sparsand longerons) are too big to go UPS and must be shipped by truck.Generally the shipping costs at least $150, so you should try to order itall at once. Shipping one spar costs $150. Shipping four spars and fourlongerons and several sheets of plywood probably costs around $165.If you want to just get enough to do the ribs, you will be better off toorder a few pieces of plywood sheets, so they can ship more cheaply. Youcan order 2' x 4' sections and pay a little more for the wood but save a loton the shipping. 6' pieces of spruce can also ship cheaply, so I would say,for the ribs, order 90, 6' pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" spruce capstrip, and acouple of 2'x4' pieces of 1/16" plywood (birch or mahogany - your choice).If you order from Aircraft Spruce, I would also buy their "Bargain Bag ofSpruce" - it truly is a baragin and you will get several nice pieces ofspruce that you will find uses for at some point in your project. You willalso need glue (I use resorcinol, everybody else uses T-88) and a pound of1/2" AN501 nails, and that should be enough to atleast get you through theribs.Have Fun!Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh,NC-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Hi Larry!I am also new to the Pietenpol, but I will vouch for Jack's memory. I recentlyordered exactly what he recommends and found that amount of material to be justright. I've got all of my diagonals and uprights cut and I had enough to shapethe top and bottom capstrips as well. Jack: "for the ribs, order 90, 6' pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" spruce capstrip, and acouple of 2'x4' pieces of 1/16" plywood"I also picked up the Bargain Bag of Spruce and it does indeed contain a nice varietyof various sizes and shapes. I've not used any yet, but I'm sure it willbe useful at some point.I am also using T-88 as Jack mentioned. I like it so far as it allows a good workingtime (45 min or so) and is super strong. I'm using 1/4" nails, which seemto be adequate in holding the gussets in place. Even though the plans callfor 1/2" nails, they seem a bit long, but I don't suppose either would be necessarilybad to use. According to "The Sportplane Builder" - Tony Bingelis,"the nails should be long enough to penetrate the underlying structure by 3 timesthe thickness of the surface plywood." 1/16" ply should require 1/4" nail.I hope I'm not overlooking some other reason that the plans might have calledfor 1/2" nails. If you plan to use 1/4" nails, get a good, lightweight pairof needle nose pliers and a tack hammer.I think the capstrip and wing rib assembly should keep you busy for several weeks.If you order the stuff mentioned above, it should come UPS ground... minedid. That should keep you off the freight truck until you get a better ideawhat all you need to order for the rest of the build. Good luck on your build!--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:49:53 -0400 (EDT)
Hi Larry!I am also new to the Pietenpol, but I will vouch for Jack's memory. I recentlyordered exactly what he recommends and found that amount of material to be justright. I've got all of my diagonals and uprights cut and I had enough to shapethe top and bottom capstrips as well. Jack: "for the ribs, order 90, 6' pieces of 1/4" x 1/2" spruce capstrip, and acouple of 2'x4' pieces of 1/16" plywood"I also picked up the Bargain Bag of Spruce and it does indeed contain a nice varietyof various sizes and shapes. I've not used any yet, but I'm sure it willbe useful at some point.I am also using T-88 as Jack mentioned. I like it so far as it allows a good workingtime (45 min or so) and is super strong. I'm using 1/4" nails, which seemto be adequate in holding the gussets in place. Even though the plans callfor 1/2" nails, they seem a bit long, but I don't suppose either would be necessarilybad to use. According to "The Sportplane Builder" - Tony Bingelis,"the nails should be long enough to penetrate the underlying structure by 3 timesthe thickness of the surface plywood." 1/16" ply should require 1/4" nail.I hope I'm not overlooking some other reason that the plans might have calledfor 1/2" nails. If you plan to use 1/4" nails, get a good, lightweight pairof needle nose pliers and a tack hammer.I think the capstrip and wing rib assembly should keep you busy for several weeks.If you order the stuff mentioned above, it should come UPS ground... minedid. That should keep you off the freight truck until you get a better ideawhat all you need to order for the rest of the build. Good luck on your build!--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:49:53 -0400 (EDT)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Materials List
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Larry,I have a list on my web site. Go to http://www.cpc-world.com.Under "Services and Suppliers" there is a wood cutting list.Hope it helps.PeterWonthaggi Australia-----Original Message-----
Larry,I have a list on my web site. Go to http://www.cpc-world.com.Under "Services and Suppliers" there is a wood cutting list.Hope it helps.PeterWonthaggi Australia-----Original Message-----
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Hi Larry,The ribs are a good place to be starting. ...lots of little pieces (I think Ihad to make 960 gussets) with about 45 total pieces in each rib. Some of us didn'tuse any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is acceptable in his book.I found that while the jig took a little longer to make, making ribs with clampsmeant instead of using several nails in each of the 30 gussets per rib Ijust lifted, turned and dropped the clamp and moved on to the next gusset. Itwas pretty simple to make and I used that system on my empennage too, althoughthe time-savings paid off more in the rib building since you're making quitea few of the same part. Used 1/4" carriage bolts, wingnuts and paint sticks.The clamps were easy to uproot and reuse to make other parts as well. Thereare a few of this who have used a variation of this method. Also, no nailsto remove when done. Here's a few pictures to give you some more ideas. http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?pag ... lter=0Have fun, this is a fantastic project and great community!--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:28:58 -0400 (EDT)
Hi Larry,The ribs are a good place to be starting. ...lots of little pieces (I think Ihad to make 960 gussets) with about 45 total pieces in each rib. Some of us didn'tuse any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is acceptable in his book.I found that while the jig took a little longer to make, making ribs with clampsmeant instead of using several nails in each of the 30 gussets per rib Ijust lifted, turned and dropped the clamp and moved on to the next gusset. Itwas pretty simple to make and I used that system on my empennage too, althoughthe time-savings paid off more in the rib building since you're making quitea few of the same part. Used 1/4" carriage bolts, wingnuts and paint sticks.The clamps were easy to uproot and reuse to make other parts as well. Thereare a few of this who have used a variation of this method. Also, no nailsto remove when done. Here's a few pictures to give you some more ideas. http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?pag ... lter=0Have fun, this is a fantastic project and great community!--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:28:58 -0400 (EDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
If my memory serves me correctly, Mountain Piets Subaru engine quit on theway home from Brodhead. John managed a miraculous emergency landing, in ayard I think.I believe the engine quit because of the control nodule (the Brain). Thereis an automatic shut off function which turns your car off if it sensescertain problems which might damage the motor. I don't remember what set itoff, but this function had not been disarmed and it sensed something itdidn't like and turned off the motor. It was really a shame, I've rarelyseen craftsmanship like on that plane. This is generally what we all heardhappend from John, though the details might be a bit off due to my memory.Great motor, great plane, great pilot, and a very great God...Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
If my memory serves me correctly, Mountain Piets Subaru engine quit on theway home from Brodhead. John managed a miraculous emergency landing, in ayard I think.I believe the engine quit because of the control nodule (the Brain). Thereis an automatic shut off function which turns your car off if it sensescertain problems which might damage the motor. I don't remember what set itoff, but this function had not been disarmed and it sensed something itdidn't like and turned off the motor. It was really a shame, I've rarelyseen craftsmanship like on that plane. This is generally what we all heardhappend from John, though the details might be a bit off due to my memory.Great motor, great plane, great pilot, and a very great God...Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Thanks guys..This is excellent info! Fast replies as well. Thanks to all for taking the timeto reply. I did build 77 ribs for a full scale Fokker Dr1 a few years back. I still havesome plywood sheets/finnish wood from Aircraft Spruce in storage. I'll have todisect my shed and take inventory today. I have a bag of brass rib nails as well..little quarter inchers I believe, but I'll still have some ordering to do,and maybe convert that Fokker Jig into a Piet Jig. I imagine it'll take a bitof time to get the jig tweaked to work just right before cranking them out...LarryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Thanks guys..This is excellent info! Fast replies as well. Thanks to all for taking the timeto reply. I did build 77 ribs for a full scale Fokker Dr1 a few years back. I still havesome plywood sheets/finnish wood from Aircraft Spruce in storage. I'll have todisect my shed and take inventory today. I have a bag of brass rib nails as well..little quarter inchers I believe, but I'll still have some ordering to do,and maybe convert that Fokker Jig into a Piet Jig. I imagine it'll take a bitof time to get the jig tweaked to work just right before cranking them out...LarryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: "Richard Schreiber"
Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention (no nails),I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility. I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider his optionstoo... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set? I'm consideringleaving mine in. Is their any major disadvantage except the few ouncesof weight? Do they come loose and bounce around in the wing or something?Glenn Thomas wrote:> Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is acceptablein his book.--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention (no nails),I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility. I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider his optionstoo... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set? I'm consideringleaving mine in. Is their any major disadvantage except the few ouncesof weight? Do they come loose and bounce around in the wing or something?Glenn Thomas wrote:> Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is acceptablein his book.--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By:> K5YAC
why not just use 1/4 inch staples and a light weight staple gun. Its fastand easy. The staples can then be easily pulled out with a small end nippertype pliers. Thats the way I did it. I jigged up one rib and glued andstapled one side. Pulled it from the form and added the gussets on theother side. I then pulled the staples from the rib that was glued up theday before. It usually took me less than an hour to glue up a complete riband remove the staples from another. On my best day I think I did four ribsone Saturday afternoon.Rick Schreiber> [Original Message]
why not just use 1/4 inch staples and a light weight staple gun. Its fastand easy. The staples can then be easily pulled out with a small end nippertype pliers. Thats the way I did it. I jigged up one rib and glued andstapled one side. Pulled it from the form and added the gussets on theother side. I then pulled the staples from the rib that was glued up theday before. It usually took me less than an hour to glue up a complete riband remove the staples from another. On my best day I think I did four ribsone Saturday afternoon.Rick Schreiber> [Original Message]
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I left my nails in.... too much hassle to pull out, plus will damage wood.Bought the "glue covered nails" from AC spruce.Glue covered nails are not meant to be removed....My 2 cents.....Dave-----Original Message-----
I left my nails in.... too much hassle to pull out, plus will damage wood.Bought the "glue covered nails" from AC spruce.Glue covered nails are not meant to be removed....My 2 cents.....Dave-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: T88 hint......Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
I'm using the glue covered nails too, so I guess I'll leave them in as well. Great idea on the staples Rick.davea(at)symbolicdisplays wrote:> I left my nails in.... too much hassle to pull out, plus will damage wood.> > Bought the "glue covered nails" from AC spruce.> > Glue covered nails are not meant to be removed....> > My 2 cents.....> > Dave> > > > ----------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: T88 hint......Re: Materials List
I'm using the glue covered nails too, so I guess I'll leave them in as well. Great idea on the staples Rick.davea(at)symbolicdisplays wrote:> I left my nails in.... too much hassle to pull out, plus will damage wood.> > Bought the "glue covered nails" from AC spruce.> > Glue covered nails are not meant to be removed....> > My 2 cents.....> > Dave> > > > ----------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: T88 hint......Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: "Dave Abramson"
Awesome! I have a digital scale for reloading that will work great for this method.Thanks for the info Jim!--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Awesome! I have a digital scale for reloading that will work great for this method.Thanks for the info Jim!--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
What happened to the FOKKER?????Dave-----Original Message-----
What happened to the FOKKER?????Dave-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Walt,I did exactly as you (laying 2 beads side by side) and never had a problem withany joints on my plane nor with any of the sample test pieces that I made todestroy. Always tore the wood and not the glue. Good stuff.Don EmchNX899DETrusting T-88 for a couple hundred hours now....Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Walt,I did exactly as you (laying 2 beads side by side) and never had a problem withany joints on my plane nor with any of the sample test pieces that I made todestroy. Always tore the wood and not the glue. Good stuff.Don EmchNX899DETrusting T-88 for a couple hundred hours now....Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Pietenpol-List: Materials List
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Jim,Years ago I built a wooden cabinet sandblaster. You will need to line it with sheetmetal, rubber or nylon immediately. If you make your window from temperedglass ask the Glass Co. for "salvage plate" and have several cut right off thebat. Salvage plate is exactly that...salvage from storefronts. It is normallycheaper. Depending on what you are blasting and the amount of ricochet....youcan frost a window over in a couple of hours. You might want to price out the components and then with that budget watch Craigslist.You can pick up a nice used Trinco pretty reasonable right now. As alwaysyou will have more $$ into the homebuilt unit than you initially think.--------PAPA MIKERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Materials List
Jim,Years ago I built a wooden cabinet sandblaster. You will need to line it with sheetmetal, rubber or nylon immediately. If you make your window from temperedglass ask the Glass Co. for "salvage plate" and have several cut right off thebat. Salvage plate is exactly that...salvage from storefronts. It is normallycheaper. Depending on what you are blasting and the amount of ricochet....youcan frost a window over in a couple of hours. You might want to price out the components and then with that budget watch Craigslist.You can pick up a nice used Trinco pretty reasonable right now. As alwaysyou will have more $$ into the homebuilt unit than you initially think.--------PAPA MIKERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Materials List
Original Posted By: Jeff wilson
I know this wasn't requested, but with several new interested parties on the boards,I figured I'd offer a list that has been very helpful to me. This mightbe published elsewhere, but it was forwarded to me by someone here (probablyMarkle) and I reference it often when trying to decide which pieces to use forcertain assemblies. The original list that I received was compiled by Bob McKinley. I think he musthave been one of the Ohio guys as there was a Buckeye Piet sketch in the margin,but I'm not sure. Certainly someone here knows of him. The list I recievedwas a scanned image of an old document that was typed up on a typewriter,and some of the notes were difficult to make out. If I had that file I wouldoffer it too, but I'm afraid I've deleted it, or at least misplaced it among allmy Pietenpol goodies. Anyhow, I used Bob's list to inventory my wood kit when it was delivered. It waspretty close to right on... the spar thickness was different (3/4" insteadof 1"), and Aircraft Spruce offered a couple of additional parts in the tail section(I've noted all of these on the new list), otherwise it is very handy inhelping to sort out all the parts one might need to assemble this airplane,whether you choose to purchase a kit or cut your own parts. All of Bob's notes are included in the notes section, but I've added a few of myown to this modern version too IN BOLD.I hope this helps some of you as much as it has helped me.--------Mark ChouinardFinishing up Wings - Working on Center SectionRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/mate ... __________
I know this wasn't requested, but with several new interested parties on the boards,I figured I'd offer a list that has been very helpful to me. This mightbe published elsewhere, but it was forwarded to me by someone here (probablyMarkle) and I reference it often when trying to decide which pieces to use forcertain assemblies. The original list that I received was compiled by Bob McKinley. I think he musthave been one of the Ohio guys as there was a Buckeye Piet sketch in the margin,but I'm not sure. Certainly someone here knows of him. The list I recievedwas a scanned image of an old document that was typed up on a typewriter,and some of the notes were difficult to make out. If I had that file I wouldoffer it too, but I'm afraid I've deleted it, or at least misplaced it among allmy Pietenpol goodies. Anyhow, I used Bob's list to inventory my wood kit when it was delivered. It waspretty close to right on... the spar thickness was different (3/4" insteadof 1"), and Aircraft Spruce offered a couple of additional parts in the tail section(I've noted all of these on the new list), otherwise it is very handy inhelping to sort out all the parts one might need to assemble this airplane,whether you choose to purchase a kit or cut your own parts. All of Bob's notes are included in the notes section, but I've added a few of myown to this modern version too IN BOLD.I hope this helps some of you as much as it has helped me.--------Mark ChouinardFinishing up Wings - Working on Center SectionRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/mate ... __________
> Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Original Posted By: "Dave Abramson"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List>>> Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention(no nails), I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility. >> I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider hisoptions too... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set? I'm considering leaving mine in. Is their any major disadvantage exceptthe few ounces of weight? Do they come loose and bounce around in the wingor something?>>> Glenn Thomas wrote:> > Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes isacceptable in his book.>>> --------> Mark>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List>>> Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention(no nails), I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility. >> I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider hisoptions too... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set? I'm considering leaving mine in. Is their any major disadvantage exceptthe few ounces of weight? Do they come loose and bounce around in the wingor something?>>> Glenn Thomas wrote:> > Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes isacceptable in his book.>>> --------> Mark>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________