Chuck G. and other "Pieters"I think that the '05 Tour that you guys are thinking about is great!However, since I have some considerable experience in this mountain flying business,and built "Mountain Piet" expressly for this purpose, may I offer a fewcomments?Most Piets using 65-A Continentals and Corvairs become single passenger (the pilotonly) airplanes. If you try and carry a full fuel load and then all thecamping stuff too, it may be too marginal to get your plane off the ground. It can be really embarrasing to take off of an airport at 4,000 feet, fly up toan airport at 7,000 feet and try to take off the next day when the temperaturehas gone up, believe me, I've done it! However, most people don't mind youstaying an extra day!It is not unusual the have the density altitude easily on a summer day exceed over11,000 feet at our airport which is at about 7,500 feet. This is due to thetemperature rise as the day progresses. If you don't have enough power anda long enough runway with a clear departure, then you are flirting with disaster.I have seen overloaded Bonanza's and 210's struggle to get into the air,enough where we run out of the terminal to see if the idiot made it! You haveto keep it light! Also, always lean your engine before take off so that youare getting maximum power.Two reasons not to fly during midday. As I said above, the density altitude canbe higher than the service ceiling of the plane. Additionally, the turbulencecan really have you " biting the buttons out of the seat" at midday. A poorlyconstucted and overloaded plane may well suffer structural damage due to extremeturbulence at midday.. Best to get out at first daylight and then planto quit before 11:00 AM. Things sometimes calm down toward evening.I always follow a road when flying in the mountains or at least have one in glidingrange. If you have to put it down, then do it close to or on the road, therescuers won't have to climb mountains to find and recover your remains!Landings at our altitude in a Piet will be hotter than a firecracker compared towhat you are used to at sea level. The airspeed indicator will show the sameair speed, but the ground speed will be higher than you are used to. Sincea Piet has a lot of drag, make sure that you carry extra energy on final, eitherwith power or a steep glide angle. You will get used to it, go back to sealevel and think you are landing in molasses!When going through a pass, always gain enough altitude so you can see to the otherside before starting through. There is no way that your plane is going toclimb as steeply as the terrain rises! We pick several planes a year along withthe bodies off our mountains who have made this mistake. Also, many passeslook the same to a flatlander who hasn't been here before, make sure that thepass is the one that you filed in your flight plan, the rescuers want to knowwhere to start looking!Now I know that all of this seems to make mountain flying dangerous, it is not!It is just different. Follow the rules and use common sense and you will findit one of the most rewarding experiences you will ever have in an airplane.Get a book, read it, and then enjoy the view. If you don't think that you haveenough power, plan to go across either Wyoming or down across New Mexico.Have warm clothes, the temperature drops about 3 degrees for every thousand feetabove ground level. This temperature drop plus the wind chill factor at 70mph will make you want to give up open cockpits forever.That's enough of the "Gospel according to St. John"
Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Original Posted By: "Gordon Bowen"
Chuck G. and other "Pieters"I think that the '05 Tour that you guys are thinking about is great!However, since I have some considerable experience in this mountain flying business,and built "Mountain Piet" expressly for this purpose, may I offer a fewcomments?Most Piets using 65-A Continentals and Corvairs become single passenger (the pilotonly) airplanes. If you try and carry a full fuel load and then all thecamping stuff too, it may be too marginal to get your plane off the ground. It can be really embarrasing to take off of an airport at 4,000 feet, fly up toan airport at 7,000 feet and try to take off the next day when the temperaturehas gone up, believe me, I've done it! However, most people don't mind youstaying an extra day!It is not unusual the have the density altitude easily on a summer day exceed over11,000 feet at our airport which is at about 7,500 feet. This is due to thetemperature rise as the day progresses. If you don't have enough power anda long enough runway with a clear departure, then you are flirting with disaster.I have seen overloaded Bonanza's and 210's struggle to get into the air,enough where we run out of the terminal to see if the idiot made it! You haveto keep it light! Also, always lean your engine before take off so that youare getting maximum power.Two reasons not to fly during midday. As I said above, the density altitude canbe higher than the service ceiling of the plane. Additionally, the turbulencecan really have you " biting the buttons out of the seat" at midday. A poorlyconstucted and overloaded plane may well suffer structural damage due to extremeturbulence at midday.. Best to get out at first daylight and then planto quit before 11:00 AM. Things sometimes calm down toward evening.I always follow a road when flying in the mountains or at least have one in glidingrange. If you have to put it down, then do it close to or on the road, therescuers won't have to climb mountains to find and recover your remains!Landings at our altitude in a Piet will be hotter than a firecracker compared towhat you are used to at sea level. The airspeed indicator will show the sameair speed, but the ground speed will be higher than you are used to. Sincea Piet has a lot of drag, make sure that you carry extra energy on final, eitherwith power or a steep glide angle. You will get used to it, go back to sealevel and think you are landing in molasses!When going through a pass, always gain enough altitude so you can see to the otherside before starting through. There is no way that your plane is going toclimb as steeply as the terrain rises! We pick several planes a year along withthe bodies off our mountains who have made this mistake. Also, many passeslook the same to a flatlander who hasn't been here before, make sure that thepass is the one that you filed in your flight plan, the rescuers want to knowwhere to start looking!Now I know that all of this seems to make mountain flying dangerous, it is not!It is just different. Follow the rules and use common sense and you will findit one of the most rewarding experiences you will ever have in an airplane.Get a book, read it, and then enjoy the view. If you don't think that you haveenough power, plan to go across either Wyoming or down across New Mexico.Have warm clothes, the temperature drops about 3 degrees for every thousand feetabove ground level. This temperature drop plus the wind chill factor at 70mph will make you want to give up open cockpits forever.That's enough of the "Gospel according to St. John"
)If you do decide to come through our area, please give me a call, we have a coupleof unused bedrooms downstairs. Boy, do I miss "Mountain Piet".John Dilatush,Salida, Colorado________________________________________________________________________________
Chuck G. and other "Pieters"I think that the '05 Tour that you guys are thinking about is great!However, since I have some considerable experience in this mountain flying business,and built "Mountain Piet" expressly for this purpose, may I offer a fewcomments?Most Piets using 65-A Continentals and Corvairs become single passenger (the pilotonly) airplanes. If you try and carry a full fuel load and then all thecamping stuff too, it may be too marginal to get your plane off the ground. It can be really embarrasing to take off of an airport at 4,000 feet, fly up toan airport at 7,000 feet and try to take off the next day when the temperaturehas gone up, believe me, I've done it! However, most people don't mind youstaying an extra day!It is not unusual the have the density altitude easily on a summer day exceed over11,000 feet at our airport which is at about 7,500 feet. This is due to thetemperature rise as the day progresses. If you don't have enough power anda long enough runway with a clear departure, then you are flirting with disaster.I have seen overloaded Bonanza's and 210's struggle to get into the air,enough where we run out of the terminal to see if the idiot made it! You haveto keep it light! Also, always lean your engine before take off so that youare getting maximum power.Two reasons not to fly during midday. As I said above, the density altitude canbe higher than the service ceiling of the plane. Additionally, the turbulencecan really have you " biting the buttons out of the seat" at midday. A poorlyconstucted and overloaded plane may well suffer structural damage due to extremeturbulence at midday.. Best to get out at first daylight and then planto quit before 11:00 AM. Things sometimes calm down toward evening.I always follow a road when flying in the mountains or at least have one in glidingrange. If you have to put it down, then do it close to or on the road, therescuers won't have to climb mountains to find and recover your remains!Landings at our altitude in a Piet will be hotter than a firecracker compared towhat you are used to at sea level. The airspeed indicator will show the sameair speed, but the ground speed will be higher than you are used to. Sincea Piet has a lot of drag, make sure that you carry extra energy on final, eitherwith power or a steep glide angle. You will get used to it, go back to sealevel and think you are landing in molasses!When going through a pass, always gain enough altitude so you can see to the otherside before starting through. There is no way that your plane is going toclimb as steeply as the terrain rises! We pick several planes a year along withthe bodies off our mountains who have made this mistake. Also, many passeslook the same to a flatlander who hasn't been here before, make sure that thepass is the one that you filed in your flight plan, the rescuers want to knowwhere to start looking!Now I know that all of this seems to make mountain flying dangerous, it is not!It is just different. Follow the rules and use common sense and you will findit one of the most rewarding experiences you will ever have in an airplane.Get a book, read it, and then enjoy the view. If you don't think that you haveenough power, plan to go across either Wyoming or down across New Mexico.Have warm clothes, the temperature drops about 3 degrees for every thousand feetabove ground level. This temperature drop plus the wind chill factor at 70mph will make you want to give up open cockpits forever.That's enough of the "Gospel according to St. John"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Original Posted By: John Dilatush
Great posting John, especially regarding summer days and density altitudes over9,000' even if the airport is "only" 4500' field elevation, saw a niffty rebuiltTri-Pacer burn it in a couple years ago because of this problem, three peoplegot toasted.Gordon ----- Original Message -----
Great posting John, especially regarding summer days and density altitudes over9,000' even if the airport is "only" 4500' field elevation, saw a niffty rebuiltTri-Pacer burn it in a couple years ago because of this problem, three peoplegot toasted.Gordon ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Original Posted By: "Carl D. Vought"
Chuck G. and other Pieters,In my earlier post, I forgot to mention the effect that altitude has on the horsepowerof a normally aspirated engine.A normally aspirated engine will lose about 3% of it's horsepower per thousandfeet. Figure it this way: If you have a 65 hp Continental, at 7500 feet, youreally only have 77.5% of 65 hp available or about 50 hp at full throttle availablefor take off and climb!Another thing to keep in mind when planning your route.Cordially,John DilatushSalida, ColoradoBoy, I miss "Mountain Piet".________________________________________________________________________________Date: 5 Nov 2004 15:34:37 -0000
Chuck G. and other Pieters,In my earlier post, I forgot to mention the effect that altitude has on the horsepowerof a normally aspirated engine.A normally aspirated engine will lose about 3% of it's horsepower per thousandfeet. Figure it this way: If you have a 65 hp Continental, at 7500 feet, youreally only have 77.5% of 65 hp available or about 50 hp at full throttle availablefor take off and climb!Another thing to keep in mind when planning your route.Cordially,John DilatushSalida, ColoradoBoy, I miss "Mountain Piet".________________________________________________________________________________Date: 5 Nov 2004 15:34:37 -0000
Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain FlyingIn a message dated 11/5/04 8:36:02 AM Central Standard Time, dilatush(at)amigo.net writes:>John,I was hoping to hear some comments on flying in mountain terrain, from you. Thank you, and everyone, for some very good advise.I plan on bringing this subject up again some time.John Ford,Please let your son Collin (about 7 yrs old) know that ever since he and his buddies, Tyler and Garrett Menache, fix my brake cylinders at Brodhead, I haven't had any problems at all with them !!Chuck GantzerNX770CG________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 01:22:14 -0800
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain FlyingIn a message dated 11/5/04 8:36:02 AM Central Standard Time, dilatush(at)amigo.net writes:>John,I was hoping to hear some comments on flying in mountain terrain, from you. Thank you, and everyone, for some very good advise.I plan on bringing this subject up again some time.John Ford,Please let your son Collin (about 7 yrs old) know that ever since he and his buddies, Tyler and Garrett Menache, fix my brake cylinders at Brodhead, I haven't had any problems at all with them !!Chuck GantzerNX770CG________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 01:22:14 -0800
Pietenpol-List: Longerons
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: LongeronsI placed the lower longeron in the jig last night, without steaming -- no problem. I just wondered what the consensus was as I've never built a "really big plane" before and just wondered about bending the wood. I then got three uprights made, along with an exact match for the other fuselage side. The "laser-guided" compound electric mitre saw that my wife got me last Christmas isfantastic! (Yes, dear, I really do plan to use it for that cove molding for thedownstairs bathroom and our bedroom.) Mark the wood carefully, lay the laser line on the mark and presto! Cuts the right angle at the right length. I can'timagine doing the cuts by hand, but then again that's how BHP and everyone elsehas done it over the years -- I feel guilty using this modern convenience -- although if BHP had had one, he probably would have used it! Thanks again for advice! Have a great Sunday everyone -- I'll be in the basement building an airplane (although I may surface once the Packers start)!Fred B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: LongeronsI placed the lower longeron in the jig last night, without steaming -- no problem. I just wondered what the consensus was as I've never built a "really big plane" before and just wondered about bending the wood. I then got three uprights made, along with an exact match for the other fuselage side. The "laser-guided" compound electric mitre saw that my wife got me last Christmas isfantastic! (Yes, dear, I really do plan to use it for that cove molding for thedownstairs bathroom and our bedroom.) Mark the wood carefully, lay the laser line on the mark and presto! Cuts the right angle at the right length. I can'timagine doing the cuts by hand, but then again that's how BHP and everyone elsehas done it over the years -- I feel guilty using this modern convenience -- although if BHP had had one, he probably would have used it! Thanks again for advice! Have a great Sunday everyone -- I'll be in the basement building an airplane (although I may surface once the Packers start)!Fred B. ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A water temp and oil pressure line routing
Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
Rick,I am going to use a Corvair also. I bought a tach that counts the teeth on thestarter gear, I have an electric sender for the oil pressure. I will have onlywires running into the cockpit. I will start out using cyl. head temps measuredfrom thermocouples placed under the spark plugs. Clark's sells sendersfor this that screw into the heads. No fuel pressure gage needed as I will beusing head pressure from the tank. Fuel pump not needed. I will have a selectorswitch for selecting which set of coils I will be using as I will be usingWm. Wynne's dual point distributor. Again, only wires coming into the cockpit.Not sure what else I will be using as I have not started the engine hookup yet.Hope this helps.Alex Sloan -------------- Original message -------------- > > Just a general question about engine instruments related to this, > wouldn't it be easier to use instruments with electronic sender units > so you only have to run wires from the firewall back to the instrument > panel? Rather than oil and water lines and a ridgid tach cable? Am > trying to figure out what engine instruments to get for my corvair > conversion. > > Rick H > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm trying like crazy to keep as many lines as possible out of the cockpits> > and run along the fuselage. > > > > I'm not sure if this is a good idea for my oil pressure tube and my water > > temp line. Putting them under the covering makes them inaccessable, but I'm> > not sure if they need to be accessed ever. > > > > They're both hard lines so are a little hard to get around the vertical > > members in the cockpits cleanly. > > > > I don't think they should run through the same conduit as my mag wires > > because of heat and possible leakage, but maybe screwd to the fuse skin > > somewhere?? > > > > Douwe > > > -- > Rick Holland > > > > > > > > Rick,I am going to use a Corvair also. I bought a tach that counts the teethon the starter gear, I have an electric sender for the oil pressure.I will have only wires running into the cockpit. I will start out usingcyl. head temps measured from thermocouples placed under the spark plugs.Clark's sells senders for this that screw into the heads. No fuel pressuregage needed as I will be using head pressure from the tank. Fuel pumpnot needed. I will have a selector switch for selecting which set ofcoils I will beusing as I will be using Wm. Wynne's dual point distributor.Again,only wires coming into the cockpit. Not sure whatelse I will be using as I have not started the engine hook up yet.Hope this helps.Alex Sloan-------------- Original message -------------- -- Pietenpol-Listmessage posted by: Rick Holland Just a general question about engine instruments related to this, wouldn't it be easier to use instruments with electronic sender units so you only have to run wires from the firewall back to the instrument panel? Rather than oil and water lines and a ridgid tach cable? Am trying to figure out what engine instruments to get for my corvair conversion. Rick H On Wed, 17 Nov wrote: I'm trying like crazyto keep as many lines as possible out of the cockpits and runalong the fuselage. I'________________________________________________________________________________
Rick,I am going to use a Corvair also. I bought a tach that counts the teeth on thestarter gear, I have an electric sender for the oil pressure. I will have onlywires running into the cockpit. I will start out using cyl. head temps measuredfrom thermocouples placed under the spark plugs. Clark's sells sendersfor this that screw into the heads. No fuel pressure gage needed as I will beusing head pressure from the tank. Fuel pump not needed. I will have a selectorswitch for selecting which set of coils I will be using as I will be usingWm. Wynne's dual point distributor. Again, only wires coming into the cockpit.Not sure what else I will be using as I have not started the engine hookup yet.Hope this helps.Alex Sloan -------------- Original message -------------- > > Just a general question about engine instruments related to this, > wouldn't it be easier to use instruments with electronic sender units > so you only have to run wires from the firewall back to the instrument > panel? Rather than oil and water lines and a ridgid tach cable? Am > trying to figure out what engine instruments to get for my corvair > conversion. > > Rick H > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm trying like crazy to keep as many lines as possible out of the cockpits> > and run along the fuselage. > > > > I'm not sure if this is a good idea for my oil pressure tube and my water > > temp line. Putting them under the covering makes them inaccessable, but I'm> > not sure if they need to be accessed ever. > > > > They're both hard lines so are a little hard to get around the vertical > > members in the cockpits cleanly. > > > > I don't think they should run through the same conduit as my mag wires > > because of heat and possible leakage, but maybe screwd to the fuse skin > > somewhere?? > > > > Douwe > > > -- > Rick Holland > > > > > > > > Rick,I am going to use a Corvair also. I bought a tach that counts the teethon the starter gear, I have an electric sender for the oil pressure.I will have only wires running into the cockpit. I will start out usingcyl. head temps measured from thermocouples placed under the spark plugs.Clark's sells senders for this that screw into the heads. No fuel pressuregage needed as I will be using head pressure from the tank. Fuel pumpnot needed. I will have a selector switch for selecting which set ofcoils I will beusing as I will be using Wm. Wynne's dual point distributor.Again,only wires coming into the cockpit. Not sure whatelse I will be using as I have not started the engine hook up yet.Hope this helps.Alex Sloan-------------- Original message -------------- -- Pietenpol-Listmessage posted by: Rick Holland Just a general question about engine instruments related to this, wouldn't it be easier to use instruments with electronic sender units so you only have to run wires from the firewall back to the instrument panel? Rather than oil and water lines and a ridgid tach cable? Am trying to figure out what engine instruments to get for my corvair conversion. Rick H On Wed, 17 Nov wrote: I'm trying like crazyto keep as many lines as possible out of the cockpits and runalong the fuselage. I'________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A water temp and oil pressure line routing
Original Posted By:
no backup battery.... in my case with a coil ignition if the main battery goes ded I have other issues to worry about other than monitoring engine param's.I'm very impressed with the EIS. The coolest feautre is there is a big remote mounted red master warning light that will flash as soon as a certain value has exceeded pilot set parameters. The affected parameter will also blink on the display. The light will stop blinking when the pilot pushes the "acknowledge" button but will not fully extinguish until the affected parameter is back under the limits.Forgot to mention earlier that the EIS will monitor coolant pressure and coolant temps for you water cooled dudes.DJ----- Original Message -----
no backup battery.... in my case with a coil ignition if the main battery goes ded I have other issues to worry about other than monitoring engine param's.I'm very impressed with the EIS. The coolest feautre is there is a big remote mounted red master warning light that will flash as soon as a certain value has exceeded pilot set parameters. The affected parameter will also blink on the display. The light will stop blinking when the pilot pushes the "acknowledge" button but will not fully extinguish until the affected parameter is back under the limits.Forgot to mention earlier that the EIS will monitor coolant pressure and coolant temps for you water cooled dudes.DJ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
Boy=2C Shad- a tube through the fuel tank would make my installation just dandy. The tach cable has to offset=2C as you can see from the photo taken directly above my firewall=2C you can see the amount of offset that could be avoided. Photo at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repair ... ctually=2C if I were to install a tube through the tank I think I'd put it an angle =3Bo) My tach cable is stretched to its max limits and I really need to get a longer one=2C but it would have to be a custom length. I think mine is a standard 48" long one and 60" is too long so I'd need a custom one.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Boy=2C Shad- a tube through the fuel tank would make my installation just dandy. The tach cable has to offset=2C as you can see from the photo taken directly above my firewall=2C you can see the amount of offset that could be avoided. Photo at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repair ... ctually=2C if I were to install a tube through the tank I think I'd put it an angle =3Bo) My tach cable is stretched to its max limits and I really need to get a longer one=2C but it would have to be a custom length. I think mine is a standard 48" long one and 60" is too long so I'd need a custom one.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mountain Flying
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Hi Gang:If any one is concerned about getting over a mountain 8000 ft. or more, try thiscombination that I tried a few years ago. Altitude wasn't any problem but fuelconsumption was. That is a 145 plus HP Warner, when it was installed I neverchanged wing position, and it weighted 50 lbs more than my Ford. Flew strongand fast.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________
Hi Gang:If any one is concerned about getting over a mountain 8000 ft. or more, try thiscombination that I tried a few years ago. Altitude wasn't any problem but fuelconsumption was. That is a 145 plus HP Warner, when it was installed I neverchanged wing position, and it weighted 50 lbs more than my Ford. Flew strongand fast.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Firewall Construction, fuse tank
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Oops... I guess that last weblink should have beenhttp://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P3170002.JPGThe tach cable is the heavy black one feeding out the back of the engine.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
Oops... I guess that last weblink should have beenhttp://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P3170002.JPGThe tach cable is the heavy black one feeding out the back of the engine.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: high altitudes in a Piet
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
Holy Pietenpol Batman, Now thats an Engine!Pieti Lowell wrote:> Hi Gang:> If any one is concerned about getting over a mountain 8000 ft. or more, try thiscombination that I tried a few years ago. Altitude wasn't any problem butfuel consumption was. That is a 145 plus HP Warner, when it was installed I neverchanged wing position, and it weighted 50 lbs more than my Ford. Flew strongand fast.> Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: high altitudes in a Piet
Holy Pietenpol Batman, Now thats an Engine!Pieti Lowell wrote:> Hi Gang:> If any one is concerned about getting over a mountain 8000 ft. or more, try thiscombination that I tried a few years ago. Altitude wasn't any problem butfuel consumption was. That is a 145 plus HP Warner, when it was installed I neverchanged wing position, and it weighted 50 lbs more than my Ford. Flew strongand fast.> Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: high altitudes in a Piet