Original Posted By: Don Mosher
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:motor mountsI am building a gn-1 and am about to build the motor mount and will be using a 85 cont. The plans call for a 10 and 1/2 inch mount and I wonder if anyone has any experience with what length would be best. They also say you can use a j-3 mount which is about 7 or 8 inches. Any help would be appreciated. Ken a Iowa farmer where the snow is deep________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:25:32 -0600
Pietenpol-List: Re:motor mounts
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:motor mounts
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Ken,I'm building a GN-1 and using a J-3 motor mount with a Cont. A-65 with a dryweight of 170 lbs. The length of the motor mount is right at 9 inches.DickG.in "Sunny" Ft. Myers, FL________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:47:50 -0500
Ken,I'm building a GN-1 and using a J-3 motor mount with a Cont. A-65 with a dryweight of 170 lbs. The length of the motor mount is right at 9 inches.DickG.in "Sunny" Ft. Myers, FL________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:47:50 -0500
Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
One thing that concerned me was the welding of the bolt head to the mount fittingon the GN-1 the plans called for.DJ said he had his done at a welding shopand TIG welded on one flat.I have welded a lot of bolts as an oilfield welderin the past with stick-low hydrogen rod or wire feed MIG process,and found thatthe higher grade bolts are likely to get brittle and snap off from vibration.but aparently there must be a lot of planes flying with this set up and maybeaircraft bolts tolerate it.Any thoughts out there? boy what a ride if the enginecomes off!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
One thing that concerned me was the welding of the bolt head to the mount fittingon the GN-1 the plans called for.DJ said he had his done at a welding shopand TIG welded on one flat.I have welded a lot of bolts as an oilfield welderin the past with stick-low hydrogen rod or wire feed MIG process,and found thatthe higher grade bolts are likely to get brittle and snap off from vibration.but aparently there must be a lot of planes flying with this set up and maybeaircraft bolts tolerate it.Any thoughts out there? boy what a ride if the enginecomes off!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lowerfuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs thatare bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest againstthe firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have somephotos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs arethere, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows.If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt.The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longeron. On theoriginal plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It appearsthat on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, butactually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halvesof the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it reallynecessary?I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.Thanks,Rick SchreiberLauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thats right for you. ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lowerfuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs thatare bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest againstthe firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have somephotos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs arethere, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows.If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt.The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longeron. On theoriginal plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It appearsthat on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, butactually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halvesof the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it reallynecessary?I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.Thanks,Rick SchreiberLauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thats right for you. ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lower fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs that are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest against the firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have some photos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs are there, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows. =C2-If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt. The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longeron. On the original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It appears that on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, but actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halves of the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it really necessary?=C2-I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.=C2-Thanks,=C2-Rick Schreiber=C2-=C2-Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that=99s right for you.===================================-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum --= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,-= Photoshare, and much much more:--= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ========-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS --= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!--= --> http://forums.matronics.com--===========================================================-= - List Contribution Web Site --= Thank you for your generous support!-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution-= ... ___Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mountsDate: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 14:25:57 -0400
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lower fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs that are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest against the firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have some photos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs are there, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows. =C2-If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt. The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longeron. On the original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It appears that on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, but actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halves of the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it really necessary?=C2-I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.=C2-Thanks,=C2-Rick Schreiber=C2-=C2-Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that=99s right for you.===================================-= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum --= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,-= Photoshare, and much much more:--= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ========-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS --= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!--= --> http://forums.matronics.com--===========================================================-= - List Contribution Web Site --= Thank you for your generous support!-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution-= ... ___Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mountsDate: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 14:25:57 -0400
Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: Terry Williams
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted tothe lower fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two smalltabs that are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs thatrest against the firewall. My question is how necessary are theystructurally? I have some photos of finished Piets where they are not there,some where the tabs are there, but butt welded instead of screwed into thelongeron as Bernard shows. If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper crossbolt. The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the lo ngeron.On the original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach thetabs. It appears that on the original, these tabs did not add anythingstructurally, but actually weakened the structure. I realize that weldingthe left and right halves of the lower fittings together at the tabs wouldbe better, but is it really necessary?I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.Thanks,Rick Schreiber _____ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that 's rightfor you. ===================================t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ========== _____ Stay cool with this summer's hottest movies. Moviefone bringsyou trailers, celebrities, movie showtimes and tickets! ________________________________________________________________________________
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted tothe lower fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two smalltabs that are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs thatrest against the firewall. My question is how necessary are theystructurally? I have some photos of finished Piets where they are not there,some where the tabs are there, but butt welded instead of screwed into thelongeron as Bernard shows. If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper crossbolt. The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the lo ngeron.On the original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach thetabs. It appears that on the original, these tabs did not add anythingstructurally, but actually weakened the structure. I realize that weldingthe left and right halves of the lower fittings together at the tabs wouldbe better, but is it really necessary?I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.Thanks,Rick Schreiber _____ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that 's rightfor you. ===================================t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ========== _____ Stay cool with this summer's hottest movies. Moviefone bringsyou trailers, celebrities, movie showtimes and tickets! ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: shad bell
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lowerfuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs thatare bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest againstthe firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have somephotos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs arethere, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows.If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt.The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the lo ngeron. Onthe original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. Itappears that on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, butactually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halvesof the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it reallynecessary?I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.Thanks,Rick SchreiberLauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thats right for you. ===================================t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ======Stay cool with this summer's hottest movies. Moviefone brings you trailers, celebrities,movie showtimes and tickets! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ______Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 21:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lowerfuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs thatare bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest againstthe firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have somephotos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs arethere, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows.If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt.The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the lo ngeron. Onthe original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. Itappears that on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, butactually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halvesof the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it reallynecessary?I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.Thanks,Rick SchreiberLauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thats right for you. ===================================t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ======Stay cool with this summer's hottest movies. Moviefone brings you trailers, celebrities,movie showtimes and tickets! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ______Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 21:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: lmforge(at)earthlink.net
I can't believe the time I spent on those lower mounts. I think I ended up making them three times. The tabs are there to help support the weight of the motor without putting all that shear/shock load on the bolts against the wood so the tabs are a good thing. I origionally welded the tabs together because I didn't want to drill all those screw holes in that area but got so much weld shrinkage that they wouldn't fit over the fuselage without grinding away a bunch of wood which I didn't want to do. So I made the next set one gauge heavier and longer to get an extra bolt through the longeron and bent the tabs but didn't put screws in them. Then there wasn't enough room to get sheet metal firewall material between the motor mount and the bracket so I made another set with 1/4" longer motor mount tabs. I'm not saying my way is the best way I'm just trying to point out some of the pitfalls to look out for and maybe save you some time. Ed G.
I can't believe the time I spent on those lower mounts. I think I ended up making them three times. The tabs are there to help support the weight of the motor without putting all that shear/shock load on the bolts against the wood so the tabs are a good thing. I origionally welded the tabs together because I didn't want to drill all those screw holes in that area but got so much weld shrinkage that they wouldn't fit over the fuselage without grinding away a bunch of wood which I didn't want to do. So I made the next set one gauge heavier and longer to get an extra bolt through the longeron and bent the tabs but didn't put screws in them. Then there wasn't enough room to get sheet metal firewall material between the motor mount and the bracket so I made another set with 1/4" longer motor mount tabs. I'm not saying my way is the best way I'm just trying to point out some of the pitfalls to look out for and maybe save you some time. Ed G.
Re: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Bill Rewey has a widely known reputation for giving rides to wives of Piet builders.At the end of their flight, with a wide grin on their faces, the common first comment they make is, "When are you going to finish yours, Dear?" So look for Bill's "Navy" Piet.On Jul 7, 2009, at 10:59 AM, K5YAC wrote:>> Alright John... let's not get Ken started on the wrong foot... errr, > wing... whatever. Some of our wives actually LIKE our airplanes. > Mine is genuinely looking forward to Brodhead. She also wants to > help, specifically on the engine rebuild, and is looking forward to > a ride one day.>> I know it's hard to believe... but I'm sure there are others out > there. Maybe mine will grow tired of the idea at some point, but > she was on board at the beginning and I'll hold her to it if > necessary. So far, she's enjoying the adventure too. Hamburgers, > drawings, beer, tools, airplanes, hamburgers, sawdust, beer, fly- > ins, hamburgers, beer, airplane rides, pancakes, airports, hot dogs, > beer... what's not to like?>> --------> Mark - working on wings>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motor mountsDate: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:49:18 -0400
Bill Rewey has a widely known reputation for giving rides to wives of Piet builders.At the end of their flight, with a wide grin on their faces, the common first comment they make is, "When are you going to finish yours, Dear?" So look for Bill's "Navy" Piet.On Jul 7, 2009, at 10:59 AM, K5YAC wrote:>> Alright John... let's not get Ken started on the wrong foot... errr, > wing... whatever. Some of our wives actually LIKE our airplanes. > Mine is genuinely looking forward to Brodhead. She also wants to > help, specifically on the engine rebuild, and is looking forward to > a ride one day.>> I know it's hard to believe... but I'm sure there are others out > there. Maybe mine will grow tired of the idea at some point, but > she was on board at the beginning and I'll hold her to it if > necessary. So far, she's enjoying the adventure too. Hamburgers, > drawings, beer, tools, airplanes, hamburgers, sawdust, beer, fly- > ins, hamburgers, beer, airplane rides, pancakes, airports, hot dogs, > beer... what's not to like?>> --------> Mark - working on wings>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motor mountsDate: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:49:18 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib construction photos
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib construction photos
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib construction photos
Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
Original Posted By: "899PM"
Does anyone's field look like this anymore (see pic - July 1955 Experimenter)?Just wondering... ours doesn't. Our local EAA chapter used to have a bar andeverything... I've seen some of the old pictures... they used to unwind justfine in days past. Now the bar is stashed in the far corner of the hanger withboxes piled all over it and the liquor cabinet has been reduced to the backof a small kitchen cabinet, which is probably several years old. I'm proud to say that our chapter isn't just a social club... there are a lot ofintelligent and experienced guys there and they are all very friendly. Manyprojects are being worked on and talked about, so I can understand that maybewe as builders, pilots, etc., are just focused on the task. I'm not trying topromote irresponsibility, but is it taboo nowadays? Just gone are the days?I went to our picnic on the field several weeks ago and strolled up with my frostymug (I keep a cold keg on tap in the hangar)... I felt a little out of placeas no one else had a cold can or bottle on a beautiful sunny day. I was alittle surprised. Is it out of place today? I didn't get any dirty looks orrude comments or anything... but I'll probably ask a couple of club members ifthat stuff is out of sorts or what? What happened? Just wondering how it is elsewhere.--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/expe ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
Does anyone's field look like this anymore (see pic - July 1955 Experimenter)?Just wondering... ours doesn't. Our local EAA chapter used to have a bar andeverything... I've seen some of the old pictures... they used to unwind justfine in days past. Now the bar is stashed in the far corner of the hanger withboxes piled all over it and the liquor cabinet has been reduced to the backof a small kitchen cabinet, which is probably several years old. I'm proud to say that our chapter isn't just a social club... there are a lot ofintelligent and experienced guys there and they are all very friendly. Manyprojects are being worked on and talked about, so I can understand that maybewe as builders, pilots, etc., are just focused on the task. I'm not trying topromote irresponsibility, but is it taboo nowadays? Just gone are the days?I went to our picnic on the field several weeks ago and strolled up with my frostymug (I keep a cold keg on tap in the hangar)... I felt a little out of placeas no one else had a cold can or bottle on a beautiful sunny day. I was alittle surprised. Is it out of place today? I didn't get any dirty looks orrude comments or anything... but I'll probably ask a couple of club members ifthat stuff is out of sorts or what? What happened? Just wondering how it is elsewhere.--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/expe ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: Ed G.
Ed and Hans:I agree that the tabs are only useful in compression, but what has been troublingme is that I had planned on using a 1/8 inch sheet of Fiberfrax insulationbehind my SS firewall. The fiberfarax is probably somewhat compressible, so mythinking was that I would not get any advantage from the tabs in compression.I have also beefed up the mounts going from the plans 0.075" to 0.09". My original worry was that if the tabs were not welded, a hard landing could causethe tabs to bend and put undue strain on the cross bolts. It seems to me thatthe thinner gage mounts with the tabs held by wood screws, as on the originalplans, would be weaker than heaver mounts with non welded tabs.Rick Schreiber----- Original Message -----
Ed and Hans:I agree that the tabs are only useful in compression, but what has been troublingme is that I had planned on using a 1/8 inch sheet of Fiberfrax insulationbehind my SS firewall. The fiberfarax is probably somewhat compressible, so mythinking was that I would not get any advantage from the tabs in compression.I have also beefed up the mounts going from the plans 0.075" to 0.09". My original worry was that if the tabs were not welded, a hard landing could causethe tabs to bend and put undue strain on the cross bolts. It seems to me thatthe thinner gage mounts with the tabs held by wood screws, as on the originalplans, would be weaker than heaver mounts with non welded tabs.Rick Schreiber----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Are you coming to Brodhead? I'll save a cold Liney Bock for you.--------PAPA MIKERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
Are you coming to Brodhead? I'll save a cold Liney Bock for you.--------PAPA MIKERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
Re: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Nope, no complaints from you, John. When are you coming back to the Port of Catoosa? Jim Markle says he is planningto make our meeting on the 20th. Any chance you'll be in town?--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motor mountsDate: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:19:51 -0400
Nope, no complaints from you, John. When are you coming back to the Port of Catoosa? Jim Markle says he is planningto make our meeting on the 20th. Any chance you'll be in town?--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motor mountsDate: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:19:51 -0400
RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: Bill Church
Bill, Ed and Hans:Thanks for the replies. I plan on putting the tabs in, with no screws or welding.Hans that is a good idea about just putting the tabs against the wood firewallwith the fiberfrax and stainless firewall on top. I just spent the last 3 hours laying out, cutting and drilling the 4 top motormounts. Why is it that such a few small fittings always seems to take much longerto make than you expect.! Its a nice day here in NW Indiana. I'm going tothe airport and shoot some landings and then drink a couple of cold ones withthe rest of the hanger rats.Thanks again for the help. I'm sure its saved me a lot of grief.Rick Schreiber----- Original Message -----
Bill, Ed and Hans:Thanks for the replies. I plan on putting the tabs in, with no screws or welding.Hans that is a good idea about just putting the tabs against the wood firewallwith the fiberfrax and stainless firewall on top. I just spent the last 3 hours laying out, cutting and drilling the 4 top motormounts. Why is it that such a few small fittings always seems to take much longerto make than you expect.! Its a nice day here in NW Indiana. I'm going tothe airport and shoot some landings and then drink a couple of cold ones withthe rest of the hanger rats.Thanks again for the help. I'm sure its saved me a lot of grief.Rick Schreiber----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
There's no requirement now for a stainless steel firewall. Mine isgalvanized iron.Jack PhillipsNX899JP _____
There's no requirement now for a stainless steel firewall. Mine isgalvanized iron.Jack PhillipsNX899JP _____
RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
I'm using stainless since I have access to a free supply :>)Rick Schreiber----- Original Message -----
I'm using stainless since I have access to a free supply :>)Rick Schreiber----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lower fuselage longerons. On the original plans=2C Bernard shows two small tabs that are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest against the firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have some photos of finished Piets where they are not there=2C some where the tabs are there=2C but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows. If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt. The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longeron. On the original plans=2C Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It appears that on the original=2C these tabs did not add anything structurally=2C but actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halves of the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better=2C but is it really necessary?I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.Thanks=2CRick Schreiber_________________________________________________________________Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that=92s right for you.http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choose ... __________
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lower fuselage longerons. On the original plans=2C Bernard shows two small tabs that are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest against the firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have some photos of finished Piets where they are not there=2C some where the tabs are there=2C but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows. If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt. The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longeron. On the original plans=2C Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It appears that on the original=2C these tabs did not add anything structurally=2C but actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halves of the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better=2C but is it really necessary?I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.Thanks=2CRick Schreiber_________________________________________________________________Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that=92s right for you.http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choose ... __________