Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Hi guys,Looks like I'm going to have to put a tailwheel on my skid assembly for asphalt. Wanted your input on what's worked and what HASNT. I've heard, and it makes sense that a tailwheel adds twisting loads to the stock design that it wasn't intended for. yet at Brodhead, I didn't see many assemblies that seemed modified and yet they were in one piece. If you did modify the assembly, what did you do?Also, will a 3" wheel work on grass or is it too small?I'm thinking of building one up myself Douwe________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: tail wheels
Re: Pietenpol-List: tail wheels
Original Posted By: "glich7(at)juno.com"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail wheelsDouwe,You might want to see the photos of what I did with the tailwheel/skid. They are on the matronics photoshare or you can find them in the photo section of Chris Tracy's sight westcoastpiet.com.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30t ... __________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail wheelsDouwe,You might want to see the photos of what I did with the tailwheel/skid. They are on the matronics photoshare or you can find them in the photo section of Chris Tracy's sight westcoastpiet.com.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30t ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: tail wheels
Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Hey Douwe,Here's a couple of shots of mine. There's a 1/2" AN bolt going up through there.I got the bolt longer and cut off all the threads. You can see in the picsthat it's bolted through with AN3 bolts, both in the wheel yoke part and withthe steering "T". I started with a 3 1/2" wheel. That was too small. I wentto a 4" wheel that was also a little wider. It actually made a big difference.So far it has held up really well. From pavement to hayfields! Afterflying Sky Gypsy though, I could almost go back to a skid. For now I guess I'llstick with the wheel.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20E ... 96.jpgLots of other good ideas out there too! Keep it light though.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hey Douwe,Here's a couple of shots of mine. There's a 1/2" AN bolt going up through there.I got the bolt longer and cut off all the threads. You can see in the picsthat it's bolted through with AN3 bolts, both in the wheel yoke part and withthe steering "T". I started with a 3 1/2" wheel. That was too small. I wentto a 4" wheel that was also a little wider. It actually made a big difference.So far it has held up really well. From pavement to hayfields! Afterflying Sky Gypsy though, I could almost go back to a skid. For now I guess I'llstick with the wheel.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20E ... 96.jpgLots of other good ideas out there too! Keep it light though.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: tail wheels
Original Posted By: shad bell
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail wheelsIn a message dated 8/1/2007 9:55:27 AM Central Daylight Time, douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:Hi guys,Looks like I'm going to have to put a tailwheel on my skid assembly for asphalt. Wanted your input on what's worked and what HASNT. I've heard, and itmakes sense that a tailwheel adds twisting loads to the stock design that it wasn't intended for. yet at Brodhead, I didn't see many assemblies that seemedmodified and yet they were in one piece. If you did modify the assembly, whatdid you do?Also, will a 3" wheel work on grass or is it too small?I'm thinking of building one up myself DouweDouwe, I have a 'Short Fuselage' with the shorter of the two types of skids. I started out (during '02 & '03) with a tail skid, which works great as long as youare using it exclusively on turf. Not much control with the skid on the hard surface, and it sounds like you're dragging a pop machine across the concrete !! I tried a nylon roller at the aft edge of the skid, but that only worked for a couple of days. I finally added a 3 1/2" tailwheel, but I added it to the aft edge of the skid, in order to keep the tail as low as possible, and toreduce the twisting loads on the swingarm. Even with the loads incurred whilespinning the tail around and around with the smoke on, the swingarm has held up just fine, because twisting load is reduced because of the position of the wheel. However, I have to use differential braking to get it to do a tight turn in the grass, because of the small 3 1/2" diameter tailwheel. Here is a picture : _http://nx770cg.com/Unique.html_ (http://nx770cg.com/Unique.html) Chuck G.NX770CGhttp://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:01:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail wheelsIn a message dated 8/1/2007 9:55:27 AM Central Daylight Time, douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:Hi guys,Looks like I'm going to have to put a tailwheel on my skid assembly for asphalt. Wanted your input on what's worked and what HASNT. I've heard, and itmakes sense that a tailwheel adds twisting loads to the stock design that it wasn't intended for. yet at Brodhead, I didn't see many assemblies that seemedmodified and yet they were in one piece. If you did modify the assembly, whatdid you do?Also, will a 3" wheel work on grass or is it too small?I'm thinking of building one up myself DouweDouwe, I have a 'Short Fuselage' with the shorter of the two types of skids. I started out (during '02 & '03) with a tail skid, which works great as long as youare using it exclusively on turf. Not much control with the skid on the hard surface, and it sounds like you're dragging a pop machine across the concrete !! I tried a nylon roller at the aft edge of the skid, but that only worked for a couple of days. I finally added a 3 1/2" tailwheel, but I added it to the aft edge of the skid, in order to keep the tail as low as possible, and toreduce the twisting loads on the swingarm. Even with the loads incurred whilespinning the tail around and around with the smoke on, the swingarm has held up just fine, because twisting load is reduced because of the position of the wheel. However, I have to use differential braking to get it to do a tight turn in the grass, because of the small 3 1/2" diameter tailwheel. Here is a picture : _http://nx770cg.com/Unique.html_ (http://nx770cg.com/Unique.html) Chuck G.NX770CGhttp://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:01:02 -0700 (PDT)
Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerable
Original Posted By: Tim Willis
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableMike Cuy, My tailwheel as designed is full swivel/not steerable. In your opinion, is thisnot advised? Wouldn't the slipstream keep that wheel in line with the line offlight, and theoretically be not a hazard upon touchdown? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableMike Cuy, My tailwheel as designed is full swivel/not steerable. In your opinion, is thisnot advised? Wouldn't the slipstream keep that wheel in line with the line offlight, and theoretically be not a hazard upon touchdown? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerable
Original Posted By: Tim Willis
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableMike Cuy,My tailwheel as designed is full swivel/not steerable. In your opinion, isthis not advised? Wouldn't the slipstream keep that wheel in line with theline of flight, and theoretically be not a hazard upon touchdown?Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableMike Cuy,My tailwheel as designed is full swivel/not steerable. In your opinion, isthis not advised? Wouldn't the slipstream keep that wheel in line with theline of flight, and theoretically be not a hazard upon touchdown?Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: No RPM drop on mag check??
Original Posted By: Robert Ray
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail wheelsDan I have the Matco that Rick was talking about on my plane. I have had no problems at all with it. It works great and is inexpensive. Randy Bush NX294RB________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:32:48 -0400Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: No RPM drop on mag check??
Subject: Pietenpol-List: tail wheelsDan I have the Matco that Rick was talking about on my plane. I have had no problems at all with it. It works great and is inexpensive. Randy Bush NX294RB________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:32:48 -0400Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: No RPM drop on mag check??
RE: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerable
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableDan, The Homebuilder's Special tailwheel that I have (which I believe is what KenPerkins might be using as a basis/ foundation for his steerable/full swivelingunit) is always steerable (it doesn't free castor like a grocery cart wheel unless youput enough force on it during ground maneuvering/braking or if you kick it withyour foot to let it pivot around (like your Sedan probably does) so you can backyour/push your plane in the hangar. My trouble came from the fact that just a little push on the rudder bar got thisthing to come out of steerable mode and into full swivel when I didn't wantit to. I was having the thing come out of steerable mode on landings----holy molyis that scary ! You're better off with a tail skid and small keel on itthanyou might be with an 'always castoring' tailwheel. Just my thoughts-- I've never flown anything that had a free-wheeling tailwheel,thus the reasons for some planes like Pitts, DC-3's etc. having lockingtailwheels for takeoffs and landings---so it stays put---perfectly in line withthe runway. The only time you want your tailwheel to fully castor (again in my opinion--theremay be some other very good reasons why this might be wrong) is whenyou're going less than 5 mph. I forced my tailwheel unit (by way of Dremel tooling out that pin/detent/cam mechanism)to not be able to go into full swivel or castoring mode. It is steerable only. Hope this helps. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableDan, The Homebuilder's Special tailwheel that I have (which I believe is what KenPerkins might be using as a basis/ foundation for his steerable/full swivelingunit) is always steerable (it doesn't free castor like a grocery cart wheel unless youput enough force on it during ground maneuvering/braking or if you kick it withyour foot to let it pivot around (like your Sedan probably does) so you can backyour/push your plane in the hangar. My trouble came from the fact that just a little push on the rudder bar got thisthing to come out of steerable mode and into full swivel when I didn't wantit to. I was having the thing come out of steerable mode on landings----holy molyis that scary ! You're better off with a tail skid and small keel on itthanyou might be with an 'always castoring' tailwheel. Just my thoughts-- I've never flown anything that had a free-wheeling tailwheel,thus the reasons for some planes like Pitts, DC-3's etc. having lockingtailwheels for takeoffs and landings---so it stays put---perfectly in line withthe runway. The only time you want your tailwheel to fully castor (again in my opinion--theremay be some other very good reasons why this might be wrong) is whenyou're going less than 5 mph. I forced my tailwheel unit (by way of Dremel tooling out that pin/detent/cam mechanism)to not be able to go into full swivel or castoring mode. It is steerable only. Hope this helps. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: tail wheels
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I've got the same thing on mineJack PhillipsNX899JP _____
I've got the same thing on mineJack PhillipsNX899JP _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: No RPM drop on mag check??
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
Dan, Red Line on the A 65 should be 2300 and cruise is 2150. Yes, you should be able to get red line at cruise. I'm sure you don't want to hear this but I wouldn't fly again until an A & P (with experience with the A 65) checks it out. What does your oil pressure show at idle? At cruise? Some of the possibilites....Worn out engine, wrong prop or bad RPM gage. I'm sure there are other possibilites, but I'm not a A & P.GeneN502R.>> I> Here's a question for the other A65 owners that may or may not be> related - are you guys able to redline your engines? I'll be darned if> I can get 2050 RPM in cruise even when leaning it out (mine has a Marvel> Schembler Carb with a mixture control), and no more than 17-1800RPM on> climb out.>> Thanks everyone!> Dan>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Checked by AVG - www.avg.com17:54:00________________________________________________________________________________
Dan, Red Line on the A 65 should be 2300 and cruise is 2150. Yes, you should be able to get red line at cruise. I'm sure you don't want to hear this but I wouldn't fly again until an A & P (with experience with the A 65) checks it out. What does your oil pressure show at idle? At cruise? Some of the possibilites....Worn out engine, wrong prop or bad RPM gage. I'm sure there are other possibilites, but I'm not a A & P.GeneN502R.>> I> Here's a question for the other A65 owners that may or may not be> related - are you guys able to redline your engines? I'll be darned if> I can get 2050 RPM in cruise even when leaning it out (mine has a Marvel> Schembler Carb with a mixture control), and no more than 17-1800RPM on> climb out.>> Thanks everyone!> Dan>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Checked by AVG - www.avg.com17:54:00________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerable
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 redlineDan, I can get about 2250 full throttle, level flight, almost 2300 rpm. Static---I forget. Around 2050, 2100 ?Running at wood 72-42 prop. Mike C. (you might consider using an infrared/ non-contact handheld digital tach meterto see how accurate your tach is) ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableDate: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:37:56 -0400
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A-65 redlineDan, I can get about 2250 full throttle, level flight, almost 2300 rpm. Static---I forget. Around 2050, 2100 ?Running at wood 72-42 prop. Mike C. (you might consider using an infrared/ non-contact handheld digital tach meterto see how accurate your tach is) ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableDate: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:37:56 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerable
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableDan,I do a lot of tailwheel instruction up here in Canada and can tell you that youwould do yourself a big favour investigating a steerable tailwheel the has theability to lock (ie Scott or Maul). I have flown and taught with both and havea great degree of respect for pilots who can make a castoring tailwheel dowhat they want all of the time. As Mike mentioned, you don't want to be in the situation where your tailwheel castorsthe nose of the aircraft into wind on roll out from a landing. Other thandifferntial braking (a hazard on its own at that speed) you really have noalternative than to go around. You are correct to assume that initially theslipstream will keep your tailwheel aligned with the direction of flight but yourlanding happens in stages, and for each stage different control forces areused. Initially in a crosswind, it is all rudder and aileron through flare andtouchdown. As the airflow over these control surfaces diminishes through theroll out, greater reliance is placed on the tailwheel to maintain the centrelineof the runway (especially so on tarmac verses grass). You are still usingrudder and aileron but now a lot of the rudder input translates to pressurein the same direction on the tailwheel. There is a point in this transitionwhere differential braking can be useful too but from approximately 30 kts downto about 10 I would strongly encourage no braking at all. It is within thisrange that your tailwheel design is most noticeable. A properly designed steerabletailwheel will keep you out of the rhubarb. The lock on that very samewheel is really only required for low speed taxiing and manoeuvering in smallspaces (or as Mike referred to, pushing your bird backwards into a hangar. Atthat point, it unlocks and allows the tail to fully castor a la shopping cart.Grass is obviously more forgiving and the above description is less important.Anyone else with a castoring tailwheel on a piet please feel free to jumpin and shoot Scotty down. Scott Knowlton (slow builder in Burlington)-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerableDan,I do a lot of tailwheel instruction up here in Canada and can tell you that youwould do yourself a big favour investigating a steerable tailwheel the has theability to lock (ie Scott or Maul). I have flown and taught with both and havea great degree of respect for pilots who can make a castoring tailwheel dowhat they want all of the time. As Mike mentioned, you don't want to be in the situation where your tailwheel castorsthe nose of the aircraft into wind on roll out from a landing. Other thandifferntial braking (a hazard on its own at that speed) you really have noalternative than to go around. You are correct to assume that initially theslipstream will keep your tailwheel aligned with the direction of flight but yourlanding happens in stages, and for each stage different control forces areused. Initially in a crosswind, it is all rudder and aileron through flare andtouchdown. As the airflow over these control surfaces diminishes through theroll out, greater reliance is placed on the tailwheel to maintain the centrelineof the runway (especially so on tarmac verses grass). You are still usingrudder and aileron but now a lot of the rudder input translates to pressurein the same direction on the tailwheel. There is a point in this transitionwhere differential braking can be useful too but from approximately 30 kts downto about 10 I would strongly encourage no braking at all. It is within thisrange that your tailwheel design is most noticeable. A properly designed steerabletailwheel will keep you out of the rhubarb. The lock on that very samewheel is really only required for low speed taxiing and manoeuvering in smallspaces (or as Mike referred to, pushing your bird backwards into a hangar. Atthat point, it unlocks and allows the tail to fully castor a la shopping cart.Grass is obviously more forgiving and the above description is less important.Anyone else with a castoring tailwheel on a piet please feel free to jumpin and shoot Scotty down. Scott Knowlton (slow builder in Burlington)-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: castoring vs. steerable
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Scott,I agree completely with your assessment. In my opinion (and you know whatthey say about opinions), if you are flying off pavement, you want asteerable tailwheel and brakes. If flying strictly off grass, you just needa tailskid and no brakes. Those are the only two combinations I wouldadvise.Last weekend I talked with Jimmy Dean, a retired Piedmont Airlines pilot,who has a nice Model A Ford powered Piet which is badly in need ofrecovering. Jimmy has his own grass strip and the Piet has a tailskid andno brakes. He told me he is going to re-do the Pietenpol, and will put atailwheel on it, but no brakes. I told him to let me know when he flies itinto a paved field and parks on a ramp full of airplanes, because I want tobe there and watch! I remember when I first did taxi tests on my Piet andhadn't bled the brakes properly. Even with a steerable tailwheel, having nobrakes left me with almost no control for parking. That thing would justroll forever!BTW Mike Cuy, Jimmy's wife Connie (who is a VERY nice looking lady) said shestill remembers you (she did have a funny look on her face when she saidthat, though).Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Scott,I agree completely with your assessment. In my opinion (and you know whatthey say about opinions), if you are flying off pavement, you want asteerable tailwheel and brakes. If flying strictly off grass, you just needa tailskid and no brakes. Those are the only two combinations I wouldadvise.Last weekend I talked with Jimmy Dean, a retired Piedmont Airlines pilot,who has a nice Model A Ford powered Piet which is badly in need ofrecovering. Jimmy has his own grass strip and the Piet has a tailskid andno brakes. He told me he is going to re-do the Pietenpol, and will put atailwheel on it, but no brakes. I told him to let me know when he flies itinto a paved field and parks on a ramp full of airplanes, because I want tobe there and watch! I remember when I first did taxi tests on my Piet andhadn't bled the brakes properly. Even with a steerable tailwheel, having nobrakes left me with almost no control for parking. That thing would justroll forever!BTW Mike Cuy, Jimmy's wife Connie (who is a VERY nice looking lady) said shestill remembers you (she did have a funny look on her face when she saidthat, though).Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
>> Pietenpol-List: No RPM drop on mag check??
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
>>>> >>>>> Hi all,>>>> I finally found a really great guy to go toolin' around with to burn>> off the 10 hours the insurance company is requiring. We spent a>> fantastic 1.2 hours in N8031 last night. Temps were perfect, wind>> was calm, and I even nearly greased my first landing in a Piet! What>> a great night.>>>> Anyway, when I was doing the run-up I observed no RPM drop when>> checking the mags. Whoa! Something's a-miss. "Off" works as>> advertised, so I don't think the mags are hot.>>>> Googling suggests the following:>>>> 1. Open p-leads causing hot mags.>> 2. Mag timing advanced beyond the specified setting>> 3. Defective ignition switch>> 4. Open in the grounding circuit of the feed through the capacitors>> (Bendix S-1200 series mags)>> 5. Open magneto capacitors.>>>> I've got Eisemann mags, so I don't know if the Bendix specific>> warnings are applicable.>>>> Since it's affecting both mags, I'm leaning toward defective>> ignition switch.>>>> Anyone else have any other suggestions?>>>> Thanks,>> Dan>>>>>>>>>> -- Dan Yocum>> Fermilab 630.840.6509>> yocum(at)fnal.gov>> ,>> http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >> Fermilab. .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">> target=_blank>http://www.matroni; ->> Maww.matronics.com/contribution ">> ======>>>>>>>>>> *>>>>>> *>>>> --> Dan Yocum> Fermilab 630.840.6509> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.>>________________________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>>>> Hi all,>>>> I finally found a really great guy to go toolin' around with to burn>> off the 10 hours the insurance company is requiring. We spent a>> fantastic 1.2 hours in N8031 last night. Temps were perfect, wind>> was calm, and I even nearly greased my first landing in a Piet! What>> a great night.>>>> Anyway, when I was doing the run-up I observed no RPM drop when>> checking the mags. Whoa! Something's a-miss. "Off" works as>> advertised, so I don't think the mags are hot.>>>> Googling suggests the following:>>>> 1. Open p-leads causing hot mags.>> 2. Mag timing advanced beyond the specified setting>> 3. Defective ignition switch>> 4. Open in the grounding circuit of the feed through the capacitors>> (Bendix S-1200 series mags)>> 5. Open magneto capacitors.>>>> I've got Eisemann mags, so I don't know if the Bendix specific>> warnings are applicable.>>>> Since it's affecting both mags, I'm leaning toward defective>> ignition switch.>>>> Anyone else have any other suggestions?>>>> Thanks,>> Dan>>>>>>>>>> -- Dan Yocum>> Fermilab 630.840.6509>> yocum(at)fnal.gov>> ,>> http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >> Fermilab. .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">> target=_blank>http://www.matroni; ->> Maww.matronics.com/contribution ">> ======>>>>>>>>>> *>>>>>> *>>>> --> Dan Yocum> Fermilab 630.840.6509> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.>>________________________________________________________________________________