Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheetsof aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as onepiece by rolling and boxing. They caution that theydon't guarantee that the heavier gauge material willunroll completely flat when shipped this way. Hasanyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolledthis way, and what was your experience with it?Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
RE: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I bought a roll of .025" thick 2024T3 sheet from them and it was fine.Heavier gages or lower yield strength grades might not fare as well.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
I bought a roll of .025" thick 2024T3 sheet from them and it was fine.Heavier gages or lower yield strength grades might not fare as well.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By:> taildrags(at)hotmail.com
I've rolled .025 for storage with no problem.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio
I've rolled .025 for storage with no problem.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio
Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheetBought a rolled sheet of .032 24ST. Be very careful, very careful when you cut the holding tapes as that stuff will whip like the tail of a Louisiana gator.Corky in beee uuuu tiful Pietenpol flying weather. Where? Louisiana of course________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheetDate: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:52:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheetBought a rolled sheet of .032 24ST. Be very careful, very careful when you cut the holding tapes as that stuff will whip like the tail of a Louisiana gator.Corky in beee uuuu tiful Pietenpol flying weather. Where? Louisiana of course________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheetDate: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:52:50 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has been used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a Piet. Can buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.Gene ----- Original Message -----
why "aircraft grade" aluminum? Regular old 3003 aluminum is what has been used since the Wrights and works perfectly fine for anything on a Piet. Can buy locally, is cheap, and is easy to work with.Gene ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By:> Oscar Zuniga
Bill Rewey told me that the aviation grade is stiffer (different alloy?) then Hardware grade. When used on the leading edge of the wing, shrinking the covering will bend the softer grade more, changing the airfoil shape between each rib and possibly the performance of the wing. Then, again, didn't Bernard use cardboard "Oatmeal" boxes?On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:52 PM, hvandervoo(at)aol.com wrote:> What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?>> I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.>> But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.>> Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry > aircraft grade aluminum, including mill certification.> Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft > spruce, Wicks or Airparts>> Good luck>> Hans> NX15KV>>> -----Original Message-----
Bill Rewey told me that the aviation grade is stiffer (different alloy?) then Hardware grade. When used on the leading edge of the wing, shrinking the covering will bend the softer grade more, changing the airfoil shape between each rib and possibly the performance of the wing. Then, again, didn't Bernard use cardboard "Oatmeal" boxes?On Nov 18, 2009, at 1:52 PM, hvandervoo(at)aol.com wrote:> What's that Oscar, building a spam can ?>> I have bought and rolled upto .040 with out a problem.>> But did not buy from Aircraft spruce, I got my stuff local.>> Try Trident metals (Houston and Austin locations) they carry > aircraft grade aluminum, including mill certification.> Pick it up yourself, with sales tax still much less than Aircraft > spruce, Wicks or Airparts>> Good luck>> Hans> NX15KV>>> -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"
Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
3003 comes in 4x12 too. It can be had in differing hardnesses, I think 1/2 hard is the norm for cowlings, etc (can't say the T_ number). I am going to a local place within the week to buy a piece for my cowlings.Talking about something that unwinds with a fury, though, if anyone is using hard wire (or music wire) for tail bracing or wing drag wires, I made the mistake of holding a roll and cutting off the brass-wire ties. It had the ends bent back 180 degrees, so as it started uncoiling, it dug those sharp ends into my hands. I only then realized that I had no option but to put my foot on it, cover my face, and jump off . . . it slapped me about ten times before I got out of reach. Damn near kilt me!Gene ----- Original Message -----
3003 comes in 4x12 too. It can be had in differing hardnesses, I think 1/2 hard is the norm for cowlings, etc (can't say the T_ number). I am going to a local place within the week to buy a piece for my cowlings.Talking about something that unwinds with a fury, though, if anyone is using hard wire (or music wire) for tail bracing or wing drag wires, I made the mistake of holding a roll and cutting off the brass-wire ties. It had the ends bent back 180 degrees, so as it started uncoiling, it dug those sharp ends into my hands. I only then realized that I had no option but to put my foot on it, cover my face, and jump off . . . it slapped me about ten times before I got out of reach. Damn near kilt me!Gene ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Don't you wish you had that on video?Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Don't you wish you had that on video?Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: General Pietenpol questions
Original Posted By: "David Paule"
Thanks for all the very interesting input on this subject. What really says itall is that the Piet flys like a Cub. I will definitely get some Cub time if andwhen I go this route.PS, to Gene in "rainy Tennessee", we are in Salmon Arm at the north end of theOkanagan Valley, right on Shuswap Lake.Nigel--------Nigel R. JonesRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Thanks for all the very interesting input on this subject. What really says itall is that the Piet flys like a Cub. I will definitely get some Cub time if andwhen I go this route.PS, to Gene in "rainy Tennessee", we are in Salmon Arm at the north end of theOkanagan Valley, right on Shuswap Lake.Nigel--------Nigel R. JonesRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: "Peter W Johnson"
Let's not confuse stiffness with strength. All three materials have essentially the same stiffness, but the major practical difference between them are the yield and ultimate strengths. Until they yield, they will deform about the same amount for a given load. After they yield, of course, they might deform much, much more. But when designed properly for aircraft, they should not yield at the maximum flight or landing load. Yield, of course, is a "permanent detrimental deformation," according the practical definition that the FAA uses, while ultimate is defined as failure.3003 aluminum is a very soft material. It's not used for structure, and has limited use for formed non-structural parts. I could not find information about this material.6061, especially in the T6 temper, is a common material for aircraft and non-aerospace applications such as flashlight housings. Its yield strength is 35,000 psi and its ultimate tensile strength is 42,000 psi when used for aircraft. It's a rugged, durable, practical material that's relatively inexpensive. Because of these properties and its reluctance to grow cracks, it's a common aluminum for some spacecraft structures.2024-T3 is a common aircraft material. The strength varies slightly depending on its shape, for example, tube, extrusion, sheet or bar. For sheet, its yield strength in tension is 42,000 psi and its ultimate strength is 63,000 psi. It's a strong aluminum alloy, readily available but more expensive than 6061-T6. It is more susceptible to cracking and crack growth than 6061-T6, but that's a matter of degree, so don't let that frighten you away from it.The stiffness and strength are two entirely different properties. Since I've just supplied the strength numbers, let's briefly discuss stiffness. All these materials have about the same Young's modulus of elasticity, which is the term for the property of stiffness. As I mentioned, I found no data for 3003, but 6061-T6 has a stiffness of 9.9 million psi and 2024-T3 sheet has a stiffness of 10.5 million psi, or about 6% stiffer than the 6061.One of the interesting factoids of stress analysis is that light aluminum structures are often critical in buckling. And buckling turns out to be primarily sensitive to the stiffness, rather than strength, at least until it is highly loaded. Of course a structual engineer has to check strength as well as buckling, because you can't just expect that one or the other will dominate.David Paule B-T-W 3003 is very soft. 6061 is twice as stiff and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061. Regards________________________________________________________________________________
Let's not confuse stiffness with strength. All three materials have essentially the same stiffness, but the major practical difference between them are the yield and ultimate strengths. Until they yield, they will deform about the same amount for a given load. After they yield, of course, they might deform much, much more. But when designed properly for aircraft, they should not yield at the maximum flight or landing load. Yield, of course, is a "permanent detrimental deformation," according the practical definition that the FAA uses, while ultimate is defined as failure.3003 aluminum is a very soft material. It's not used for structure, and has limited use for formed non-structural parts. I could not find information about this material.6061, especially in the T6 temper, is a common material for aircraft and non-aerospace applications such as flashlight housings. Its yield strength is 35,000 psi and its ultimate tensile strength is 42,000 psi when used for aircraft. It's a rugged, durable, practical material that's relatively inexpensive. Because of these properties and its reluctance to grow cracks, it's a common aluminum for some spacecraft structures.2024-T3 is a common aircraft material. The strength varies slightly depending on its shape, for example, tube, extrusion, sheet or bar. For sheet, its yield strength in tension is 42,000 psi and its ultimate strength is 63,000 psi. It's a strong aluminum alloy, readily available but more expensive than 6061-T6. It is more susceptible to cracking and crack growth than 6061-T6, but that's a matter of degree, so don't let that frighten you away from it.The stiffness and strength are two entirely different properties. Since I've just supplied the strength numbers, let's briefly discuss stiffness. All these materials have about the same Young's modulus of elasticity, which is the term for the property of stiffness. As I mentioned, I found no data for 3003, but 6061-T6 has a stiffness of 9.9 million psi and 2024-T3 sheet has a stiffness of 10.5 million psi, or about 6% stiffer than the 6061.One of the interesting factoids of stress analysis is that light aluminum structures are often critical in buckling. And buckling turns out to be primarily sensitive to the stiffness, rather than strength, at least until it is highly loaded. Of course a structual engineer has to check strength as well as buckling, because you can't just expect that one or the other will dominate.David Paule B-T-W 3003 is very soft. 6061 is twice as stiff and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061. Regards________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Hans wrote->Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheetsYup.>He is clearly building an all aluminum PietenpolNope. Just thinking about making quite a numberof aluminum parts for something. Jim Markle knows ;o)>3003 is very soft. 6061 is twice as stiff>and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.What I need is 6061 T-6. Thanks for all the help;I have a quote request in to Trident in Austinsince we use materials from them at my workplace andthey deliver to us frequently.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Hans wrote->Oscar is looking for 4' x 12' sheetsYup.>He is clearly building an all aluminum PietenpolNope. Just thinking about making quite a numberof aluminum parts for something. Jim Markle knows ;o)>3003 is very soft. 6061 is twice as stiff>and 2024 is three time stiffer than 6061.What I need is 6061 T-6. Thanks for all the help;I have a quote request in to Trident in Austinsince we use materials from them at my workplace andthey deliver to us frequently.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Okay sports fans a plug for my employer Macsteel Service Centers USA. Look themup on the website. You may find exactly what you're looking for right down thestreet from your home. Call place the order pay for it when you pick it upand you're done. Just like a Piet, simple, light and cheap what could be easier?John------Original Message------
Okay sports fans a plug for my employer Macsteel Service Centers USA. Look themup on the website. You may find exactly what you're looking for right down thestreet from your home. Call place the order pay for it when you pick it upand you're done. Just like a Piet, simple, light and cheap what could be easier?John------Original Message------
> Pietenpol-List: shipping aluminum sheet
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
> >> > > Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets> of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one> piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they> don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will> unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has> anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled> this way=2C and what was your experience with it?> > Oscar Zuniga> Air Camper NX41CC> San Antonio=2C TX> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > ============================================> > > _________________________________________________________________Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:03:49 -0600
> >> > > Aircraft Spruce and others indicate that 4'x12' sheets> of aluminum up to about .030" can be shipped as one> piece by rolling and boxing. They caution that they> don't guarantee that the heavier gauge material will> unroll completely flat when shipped this way. Has> anyone ordered sheet stock that was shipped rolled> this way=2C and what was your experience with it?> > Oscar Zuniga> Air Camper NX41CC> San Antonio=2C TX> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > ============================================> > > _________________________________________________________________Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:03:49 -0600