Original Posted By: "motorbikemikexb9"
So I guess I am slightly confused about why one would droop the ailerons insteadof washout. My understanding (solely from my reading of Stick and Rudder) wasthat the purpose of washout was not to create lift per se, but rather to decreasethe angle of attack of the tips of the wings, preventing the tips fromstalling first.By that logic, wouldn't drooping the ailerons increase the angle of attack on theat the tips, making the problem worse?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing to driveup Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is it totallycalled off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and look at the uncoveredPiet that was to be on display. It would me help fill in a couple ofthe blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some input from other buildersas well.Thanks, MikeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing to driveup Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is it totallycalled off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and look at the uncoveredPiet that was to be on display. It would me help fill in a couple ofthe blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some input from other buildersas well.Thanks, MikeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Original Posted By: "motorbikemikexb9"
It's on! A little wet right now, but it'll get better.Perry RhoadsN12939sent from Brodhead----- Original Message -----
It's on! A little wet right now, but it'll get better.Perry RhoadsN12939sent from Brodhead----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly sunny....and hot, of course.6 Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and two more about to arrive.Good times!RyanSent from my iPadOn Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9" wrote:> > Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing to driveup Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is it totallycalled off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and look at theuncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me help fill in a couple ofthe blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some input from other buildersas well.> > Thanks, Mike> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 930#305930> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:35:59 -0400
Weather's better this afternoon. Windy, but partly sunny....and hot, of course.6 Piets on the ground, a Sky Scout in the air, and two more about to arrive.Good times!RyanSent from my iPadOn Jul 22, 2010, at 8:44 AM, "motorbikemikexb9" wrote:> > Dose anyone know if the brodhead fly-in is still happening. I'm planing to driveup Saturday but the weather looks stormy. If it is storming is it totallycalled off? I was hoping to make it up there to photograph and look at theuncovered Piet that was to be on display. It would me help fill in a couple ofthe blanks on the old drawings. I'd love to get some input from other buildersas well.> > Thanks, Mike> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 930#305930> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:35:59 -0400
Original Posted By: "Jack"
In Rockford for the night. Watched an awesome lightning display up north as wewere driving in. Looks like we are under a thunderstorm/tornado watch at themoment, but the forecast calls for improving conditions over the next coupleof days. See ya'll tomorrow.--------Mark ChouinardFinishing up Wings - Working on Center SectionRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
In Rockford for the night. Watched an awesome lightning display up north as wewere driving in. Looks like we are under a thunderstorm/tornado watch at themoment, but the forecast calls for improving conditions over the next coupleof days. See ya'll tomorrow.--------Mark ChouinardFinishing up Wings - Working on Center SectionRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Friday 0700
Original Posted By: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Got here late last night during storm, raining now. Have not had a chanceto get over to the main action since I'm in the "motor home" area on the farSE end of the field. Attached is a current radar image. Looks prettycruddy for today.I would do a cam if someone would tell me how. But again, my coach is along way from the action.JackDSM________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Friday 0700
Got here late last night during storm, raining now. Have not had a chanceto get over to the main action since I'm in the "motor home" area on the farSE end of the field. Attached is a current radar image. Looks prettycruddy for today.I would do a cam if someone would tell me how. But again, my coach is along way from the action.JackDSM________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Friday 0700
Original Posted By: "Jack"
Jack,Actually, the further away from the landing area, the better! In fact, hopefully,you are so far away that we really can't make out who, or what's landing. Thatwill make it more like that 'other' show. No need to narrate or zoom in...justshake the camera once in awhile. :-OWish I was there, too...Gary BootheSent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
Jack,Actually, the further away from the landing area, the better! In fact, hopefully,you are so far away that we really can't make out who, or what's landing. Thatwill make it more like that 'other' show. No need to narrate or zoom in...justshake the camera once in awhile. :-OWish I was there, too...Gary BootheSent on the Sprint Now Network from my BlackBerry-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
> To: > Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612or 613.5, and jigs too...>>> HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of any of my post> replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the years when I was> as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is coming back to bit> me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have considered suing> them for non-support...)>> All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, as it was a good> summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very nicely--- (Not> "Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it the way he> designed it!!")>> To update all:>> I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to Harry Riblett.> We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and while I appreciate> that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does understand the basic> design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass along his thoughts> (as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I would even mess> around with the design in the first place.>> I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, I'd still like> my wife to go along if the temp in Central California goes above 90> degrees (about 6 months outta the year...).>> So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a first for the ones> I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need to fly> comfortably.>> I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks Oscar!) which> would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the GA30-613.5. (He> kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the 613.5... "It's> the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the one I would want> to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of the airfoil.>> He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as I mentioned that> Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at cruise.>> I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing tips would help,> and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as well.>> But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about in the forum, he> seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better choice if one was> considering an alternative to the original FC-10.>> Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so I am not trying> to start another war, but just passing along the discussion I had with> him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an open cockpit,> draggy high wing design.>> It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he wrote and has> been posted on this forum in the past. :o0>>> To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll.>> Mark>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis wrote:>>>> Mark,>>>> Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils and any response youget will no doubt be illuminating. Please share.>>>> This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and their flying characteristicsthan Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal comparisons specificto Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not know, and he some ofwhich we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets.>>>> What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, relates to what engineand what applications you have or intend. Do you have a 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hpCorvair? Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL in a hurry, or wantto cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do you have a climb propor a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 miles to Brodhead withfull fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to take a heavy friendflying on a hot day?>>>> Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, less drag than the BP airfoil.No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see below)>> None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, for instance, have beenin wind tunnels.>>>> Likely comparisons:>>>> --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than the 612.>> --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than BP's FC10.>> --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's FC10.>> --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster with the 613.5>> --You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... this remains to be seen.>>>> Some may rightly disagree with each of these statements.>>>> You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY airfoil by building thePiet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by adding some wingspan.>>>> With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little changes in the angle ofincidence (from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett quite differentlyto achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? Kept a lab book?Both considered and accommodated differential pitching moments?>>>> ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, featuring BP's FC 10 and NACA2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he changed to a more powerfulengine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of the Riblett 612 and613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves, check with Roman Bukolt,for instance.)>>>> This is just grist for the mill... there are many other considerations. Adherenceto the original design, with its well known envelope, are two. But it isyour plane and your applications.>>>> In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm climate, with an A-65, Iwould go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. And go on a diet,too.>>>> Tim in central TX>>>> -----Original Message----->>>From: Mark Roberts >>>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too...>>>>>>>>>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the issue a couple>>>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if he was indeed>>>still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I didn't think to>>>call back this time, so i think I will give another shout out to him>>>on this issue.>>>>>>Thanks for the suggestion.>>>>>>Mark>>>>>>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark;>>>>>>>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5?>>>> I believe he's still around and talks freely with>>>> homebuilders.>>>>>>>> Oscar Zuniga>>>> Air Camper NX41CC>>>> San Antonio, TX>>>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com>>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________>>>> >-->>>Mark Roberts>>>California Laser Etch>>>www.california-laser.com>>>888-882-5015>>>888-882-5016 fax>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --> Mark Roberts> California Laser Etch> www.california-laser.com> 888-882-5015> 888-882-5016 fax>>-- Mark RobertsCalifornia Laser Etchwww.california-laser.com888-882-5015888-882-5016 fax________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.
> To: > Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612or 613.5, and jigs too...>>> HA! Tim, that was the best said response to date of any of my post> replies.... Especially the Lose Weight part (all the years when I was> as skinny as a noodle and made fun of fat folk is coming back to bit> me in the belly... My legs are still so skinny I have considered suing> them for non-support...)>> All kidding aside, I really do appreciate your reply, as it was a good> summary of the design thoughts, and was presented very nicely--- (Not> "Why the H#ll do you want to do that? Just build it the way he> designed it!!")>> To update all:>> I did just hang up from a delightful 20 minute call to Harry Riblett.> We discussed the airfoil and the plane design, and while I appreciate> that he has not built and flown a Piet, he does understand the basic> design and the flight dynamics of it. Before i pass along his thoughts> (as of today 7/22/10), I want to explain (again) why I would even mess> around with the design in the first place.>> I'm 6'4" and 250lbs. Even with a dramatic weight loss, I'd still like> my wife to go along if the temp in Central California goes above 90> degrees (about 6 months outta the year...).>> So, since my wife actually LIKES the Piet design (a first for the ones> I have shown her), I'd like the extra lift I will need to fly> comfortably.>> I called Harry to ask (as Oscar suggested.... Thanks Oscar!) which> would be better for me to use: the GA30-612 or the GA30-613.5. (He> kept correcting me when I simply said 'the 612 or the 613.5... "It's> the GA30-613.5..."). He said the GA30-613.5 was the one I would want> to go with due to the higher lifting co-efficient of the airfoil.>> He said about 1 degree of incidence would be good, as I mentioned that> Lowell had to hold 30-40 lbs of forward stick at cruise.>> I also know that a couple of extra feet on the wing tips would help,> and that I'll need to account for that in tail area as well.>> But, as to the 2 airfoils that have been batted about in the forum, he> seemed to think the GA30-613.5 would be a better choice if one was> considering an alternative to the original FC-10.>> Now, I know there are lots of opinions about this, so I am not trying> to start another war, but just passing along the discussion I had with> him about the differences with the 2 airfoils for an open cockpit,> draggy high wing design.>> It's a 19 year update on the original letter that he wrote and has> been posted on this forum in the past. :o0>>> To those going to Brodhead, I envy ya'll.>> Mark>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Tim Willis wrote:>>>> Mark,>>>> Riblett is certainly the authority on his own airfoils and any response youget will no doubt be illuminating. Please share.>>>> This board likely knows more about Pietenpols and their flying characteristicsthan Harry Riblett, though, and has at least some anecdotal comparisons specificto Piets. We may know some stories Riblett does not know, and he some ofwhich we are uninformed, in mating Ribletts to Piets.>>>> What's more, I think YOUR choice to a degree, though, relates to what engineand what applications you have or intend. Do you have a 60+hp A-65 or a 90+hpCorvair? Do you want to get off the ground and over 50' AGL in a hurry, or wantto cruise faster? How is this preference reflected... do you have a climb propor a cruise prop? Is your challenging app to fly 1000 miles to Brodhead withfull fuel but a light load, as quickly as a Piet can, or to take a heavy friendflying on a hot day?>>>> Both Riblett airfoils are reputed to give more lift, less drag than the BP airfoil.No one has put them up to a side-by-side test.*** (see below)>> None of them-- Riblett or BP-- unlike the NACA 2412, for instance, have beenin wind tunnels.>>>> Likely comparisons:>>>> --The 613.5 should have both more lift and drag than the 612.>> --The 612 should have more lift and less drag than BP's FC10.>> --The 612 should be faster than the 613.5 and BP's FC10.>> --All else equal, you should attain 50' AGL faster with the 613.5>> --You might have the gentlest stall with the 613.5... this remains to be seen.>>>> Some may rightly disagree with each of these statements.>>>> You can change a lot of the flight dynamics witha ANY airfoil by building thePiet as light as possible, powering it up a bit, and/or by adding some wingspan.>>>> With a thicker section and chord on a 613.5, little changes in the angle ofincidence (from the 2 degrees of the FC10) might tune the Riblett quite differentlyto achieve a different optimum. Who has worked on this? Kept a lab book?Both considered and accommodated differential pitching moments?>>>> ***Note: Lowell Frank has had different wings, featuring BP's FC 10 and NACA2412, on the same plane with the same engine. Then he changed to a more powerfulengine. He has the closest to comaparative data. Some of the Riblett 612 and613.5s are just coming on line now. (If memory serves, check with Roman Bukolt,for instance.)>>>> This is just grist for the mill... there are many other considerations. Adherenceto the original design, with its well known envelope, are two. But it isyour plane and your applications.>>>> In my case, starting afresh, as a fat boy in a warm climate, with an A-65, Iwould go with the Riblett 613.5 and add wingspan, as well. And go on a diet,too.>>>> Tim in central TX>>>> -----Original Message----->>>From: Mark Roberts >>>Sent: Jul 22, 2010 3:11 PM>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 or 613.5, and jigs too...>>>>>>>>>Good idea Oscar. I did in fact try to call him on the issue a couple>>>of months ago, and left a message, but I wasn't sure if he was indeed>>>still around, so I chickened out on calling again. I didn't think to>>>call back this time, so i think I will give another shout out to him>>>on this issue.>>>>>>Thanks for the suggestion.>>>>>>Mark>>>>>>On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark;>>>>>>>> Why not ask Harry Riblett about the 612 vs. 613.5?>>>> I believe he's still around and talks freely with>>>> homebuilders.>>>>>>>> Oscar Zuniga>>>> Air Camper NX41CC>>>> San Antonio, TX>>>> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com>>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________>>>> >-->>>Mark Roberts>>>California Laser Etch>>>www.california-laser.com>>>888-882-5015>>>888-882-5016 fax>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --> Mark Roberts> California Laser Etch> www.california-laser.com> 888-882-5015> 888-882-5016 fax>>-- Mark RobertsCalifornia Laser Etchwww.california-laser.com888-882-5015888-882-5016 fax________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead fly-in still on? weather is bad.