Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Dan,Ryan and I were running about 2000 RPM to keep from running over Dan Helsperin his Model A powered Piet. I occasionally had to throttle back to 1900 aswe still got too close every now and then.Still sitting in west Tennessee waiting for the weather to improve in NorthCarolina so I can fly the RV-4 home. Gotta get out of here before my motherputs another 15 pounds on me, feeding me all my favorite foods. I hope tobe home by Friday.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
RE: mccauley vs. cloudcars prop [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piets in N.
mccauley vs. cloudcars prop [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piets in N.
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
RE: Pietenpol-List: To Door or not to Door
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Phil,You've gotten a few responses in favor of a door. Let me give somearguments against it, so you can judge for yourself.Pietenpols don't handle weight very well. A small addition in weight makesa big impact on performance. Adding a door requires cutting the mainstructural member of the fuselage and requires adding a substantial amountof structure to replace the lost strength and stiffness.There are very few lightweight passengers that would require a door. Theones that are heavy enough to have trouble climbing in without a door arelikely too heavy to carry well. I use the lack of a door as a screen toprevent taking the most obese passengers, without having to tel them theyare simply too heavy to fly.Just something to think about."Simplicate and add Lightness"Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Phil,You've gotten a few responses in favor of a door. Let me give somearguments against it, so you can judge for yourself.Pietenpols don't handle weight very well. A small addition in weight makesa big impact on performance. Adding a door requires cutting the mainstructural member of the fuselage and requires adding a substantial amountof structure to replace the lost strength and stiffness.There are very few lightweight passengers that would require a door. Theones that are heavy enough to have trouble climbing in without a door arelikely too heavy to carry well. I use the lack of a door as a screen toprevent taking the most obese passengers, without having to tel them theyare simply too heavy to fly.Just something to think about."Simplicate and add Lightness"Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
RE: mccauley vs. cloudcars prop [was: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piets in N.
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
After leaving Poplar Grove I was running 2150.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
After leaving Poplar Grove I was running 2150.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: To Door or not to Door
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: To Door or not to Door
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: To Door or not to Door
> Pietenpol-List: To Door or not to Door
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
Pietenpol-List: To Door or not to Door
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Pietenpol-List: Re: To Door or not to Door
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Thanks for the replies. Sounds like a growing contingent of Piets out on the westcoast. I may try snooping around with online phone books to see if I canget in touch with Rex in Klamath Falls.As to my A75, it does not have chromed cylinders... the bores were in good shapeand only needed dressing after reconditioning. It pulls stronger than my A65,doesn't leak or burn oil, has GREAT oil pressure, and seems to be settlingin after overhaul (still only about 30 hrs. on it). This one has the flangedhub for the prop; the 65 had a tapered hub.--------Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXAir Camper NX41CCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Door or not to Door
Thanks for the replies. Sounds like a growing contingent of Piets out on the westcoast. I may try snooping around with online phone books to see if I canget in touch with Rex in Klamath Falls.As to my A75, it does not have chromed cylinders... the bores were in good shapeand only needed dressing after reconditioning. It pulls stronger than my A65,doesn't leak or burn oil, has GREAT oil pressure, and seems to be settlingin after overhaul (still only about 30 hrs. on it). This one has the flangedhub for the prop; the 65 had a tapered hub.--------Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXAir Camper NX41CCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Door or not to Door
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Ryan; I'm interested in your comment about hauling 1200 lbs.- obviously you'rerunning a higher gross weight than 41CC, which Corky registered as 1088 lbs. sothat's what I have on all my paperwork. That's 102 lbs. difference; quite abit.I have flown my airplane at gross with the A65 on a hot day and it was OK but nogreat shakes.--------Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXAir Camper NX41CCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Ryan; I'm interested in your comment about hauling 1200 lbs.- obviously you'rerunning a higher gross weight than 41CC, which Corky registered as 1088 lbs. sothat's what I have on all my paperwork. That's 102 lbs. difference; quite abit.I have flown my airplane at gross with the A65 on a hot day and it was OK but nogreat shakes.--------Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXAir Camper NX41CCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Door or not to Door
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Question for you guys who have had the pleasure offlying not only your Piet, but perhaps several others:what kinds of differences do you note between thedifferent Piets you've flown? I ask the questionbecause I saw Mike Cuy flying a "foreign" airplanewith passenger and am curious to know how theseplanes might vary in handling.I'm certain that the airplane and propeller combomake a big difference, but what about just theflying and handling characteristics?Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:31:34 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Door or not to Door
Question for you guys who have had the pleasure offlying not only your Piet, but perhaps several others:what kinds of differences do you note between thedifferent Piets you've flown? I ask the questionbecause I saw Mike Cuy flying a "foreign" airplanewith passenger and am curious to know how theseplanes might vary in handling.I'm certain that the airplane and propeller combomake a big difference, but what about just theflying and handling characteristics?Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:31:34 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: To Door or not to Door
RE: Pietenpol-List: swapping rides
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hi Oscar,That's a good question and one that has not been discussed much that I knowof.I have flown four Air Campers:1. A GN-1 built by Mike Lucky back in 1975 (I thought it was a Pietenpol),that he had just finished and asked me to help fly off some of the test timeon it. It had a Continental 65 and wire wheels and flew very well. It flewalmost exactly like the J-3 Cub that I owned at the time. Cruise was about75 mph and climb was a spritely 350 fpm.2. Mike Cuy's NX48MC. It had been a little over 25 years since I last flewan Air Camper so I didn't have much to compare it to. It flew very well,but the main thing I remember was my tendency to land it about 3 feet offthe ground. Until he told me to come in a bit faster and not flare until Iwas just above the ground, I was always dropping it in. Climb was OK withone person on board, not so good with two.3. My own Icarus Plummet (NX899JP). It flies very much like Mike Cuy's,which should be expected since they both have wire wheels, straight axlesand Continental 65's. The biggest difference is that mine weighs 120 lbsmore than Mike's, and the climb rate is not as good. My deck angle is alsoa bit higher than his (21" wheels versus his 19" wheels) and the result isthat mine is slightly more difficult to land. I usually wheel land minebecause it is very difficult to get 3 good 3-point landings in a row withit. With me alone I can get about 400 fpm climb and the cruise is about 72.With a 200 pounder in the front seat on a hot day, I get a good solid 100fpm climb.4. Ryan Mueller's N502R, which I ferried to Brodhead for him. This is thebest flying Pietenpol I have flown. It is not quite as light as Mike Cuy's(645 lbs compared to Cuy's 632 lbs) but it has a Jay Anderson CloudCars propthat gives it superlative performance. Like every other Pietenpol I'veflown, it has a Continental A65 for power. The big difference it had fromthe others is that when I picked it up in Tennessee and flew it for thefirst time I was appalled at the very heavy and un-responsive ailerons. Ilooked out and realized they had no gap seals. Once I landed the very firstthing I did was to apply blue painter's tape to seal the gaps and the resultwas astonishing - about double the roll rate and half the stick-forcerequired to move the ailerons. I had read about the benefits of sealing thegaps, but had never flown one without gap seals. It is a HUGE difference.With that prop it climbs very well with one person and not bad with two.When Ryan and I left Brodhead Sunday we weighed 1165 lbs and climbed atabout 200 fpm. Cruise at 2150 RPM indicates 77 mph and I believe it to beaccurate. I had to throttle back for Randy Bush to keep up with his Corvairpowered Pietenpol.I'd like to fly a Corvair powered Pietenpol and a Model A powered one, aslong as it is in the midwest where there are plenty of good fields for aforced landing.Hope this helps answer your question, Oscar. Perhaps some others with moreexperience flying other Pietenpols, such as Lowell Frank, Andrew King orFrank Pavliga will chime in as well.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Hi Oscar,That's a good question and one that has not been discussed much that I knowof.I have flown four Air Campers:1. A GN-1 built by Mike Lucky back in 1975 (I thought it was a Pietenpol),that he had just finished and asked me to help fly off some of the test timeon it. It had a Continental 65 and wire wheels and flew very well. It flewalmost exactly like the J-3 Cub that I owned at the time. Cruise was about75 mph and climb was a spritely 350 fpm.2. Mike Cuy's NX48MC. It had been a little over 25 years since I last flewan Air Camper so I didn't have much to compare it to. It flew very well,but the main thing I remember was my tendency to land it about 3 feet offthe ground. Until he told me to come in a bit faster and not flare until Iwas just above the ground, I was always dropping it in. Climb was OK withone person on board, not so good with two.3. My own Icarus Plummet (NX899JP). It flies very much like Mike Cuy's,which should be expected since they both have wire wheels, straight axlesand Continental 65's. The biggest difference is that mine weighs 120 lbsmore than Mike's, and the climb rate is not as good. My deck angle is alsoa bit higher than his (21" wheels versus his 19" wheels) and the result isthat mine is slightly more difficult to land. I usually wheel land minebecause it is very difficult to get 3 good 3-point landings in a row withit. With me alone I can get about 400 fpm climb and the cruise is about 72.With a 200 pounder in the front seat on a hot day, I get a good solid 100fpm climb.4. Ryan Mueller's N502R, which I ferried to Brodhead for him. This is thebest flying Pietenpol I have flown. It is not quite as light as Mike Cuy's(645 lbs compared to Cuy's 632 lbs) but it has a Jay Anderson CloudCars propthat gives it superlative performance. Like every other Pietenpol I'veflown, it has a Continental A65 for power. The big difference it had fromthe others is that when I picked it up in Tennessee and flew it for thefirst time I was appalled at the very heavy and un-responsive ailerons. Ilooked out and realized they had no gap seals. Once I landed the very firstthing I did was to apply blue painter's tape to seal the gaps and the resultwas astonishing - about double the roll rate and half the stick-forcerequired to move the ailerons. I had read about the benefits of sealing thegaps, but had never flown one without gap seals. It is a HUGE difference.With that prop it climbs very well with one person and not bad with two.When Ryan and I left Brodhead Sunday we weighed 1165 lbs and climbed atabout 200 fpm. Cruise at 2150 RPM indicates 77 mph and I believe it to beaccurate. I had to throttle back for Randy Bush to keep up with his Corvairpowered Pietenpol.I'd like to fly a Corvair powered Pietenpol and a Model A powered one, aslong as it is in the midwest where there are plenty of good fields for aforced landing.Hope this helps answer your question, Oscar. Perhaps some others with moreexperience flying other Pietenpols, such as Lowell Frank, Andrew King orFrank Pavliga will chime in as well.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: To Door or not to Door
Original Posted By: airlion
This is a great list. Ask a question, get lots of help quickly! I'm not worried about gravitationally challenged passengers. I'm about FAA normal,and the passengers I'll be taking up regularly are all smaller than me. But I am worried about less limber passengers. My wife, for instance, is oneof those. Smaller than me, but stiff. None of us are as young as we used tobe. So, to rehearse, there's arguments for and against, and my options seem to be toleave it alone, raise the wing (am I getting that right? with the suggestionto add a couple of inches on to the cabanes? does raising the wing change weightand balance or flying characteristics? ), or put in a door. How about just adding a kind of door cut out without an actual door? I would stillhave to beef up the structure there, as I'd be interrupting the top longeron,but it seems that this is doable at small increase in weight. Is it justtoo freaky for passengers to have a bit lower structure on one side of them?It seems that at least for some, being able to get the legs in over a lower sill,as it were, helps enough in mounting/dismounting for less limber passengersto make a significant difference (the difference between going flying or justnot because it's too hard to get in). It's interesting to see more people with doors than I thought there were.I know of Keri Ann's plans. Vic, if you used a different plan, I'd sure appreciateseeing it and any pics. I am thinking Corvair, but if a nice A65 or, better, C75 were to fall into my lap,I wouldn't kick her out.Thanks again for all the info so far.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:13:42 -0700 (PDT)
This is a great list. Ask a question, get lots of help quickly! I'm not worried about gravitationally challenged passengers. I'm about FAA normal,and the passengers I'll be taking up regularly are all smaller than me. But I am worried about less limber passengers. My wife, for instance, is oneof those. Smaller than me, but stiff. None of us are as young as we used tobe. So, to rehearse, there's arguments for and against, and my options seem to be toleave it alone, raise the wing (am I getting that right? with the suggestionto add a couple of inches on to the cabanes? does raising the wing change weightand balance or flying characteristics? ), or put in a door. How about just adding a kind of door cut out without an actual door? I would stillhave to beef up the structure there, as I'd be interrupting the top longeron,but it seems that this is doable at small increase in weight. Is it justtoo freaky for passengers to have a bit lower structure on one side of them?It seems that at least for some, being able to get the legs in over a lower sill,as it were, helps enough in mounting/dismounting for less limber passengersto make a significant difference (the difference between going flying or justnot because it's too hard to get in). It's interesting to see more people with doors than I thought there were.I know of Keri Ann's plans. Vic, if you used a different plan, I'd sure appreciateseeing it and any pics. I am thinking Corvair, but if a nice A65 or, better, C75 were to fall into my lap,I wouldn't kick her out.Thanks again for all the info so far.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:13:42 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: progress!
Original Posted By: Darrel Jones
Got home all fired up and the engine mount is done, the firewall is done andthe engine is hanging on the mount!!Brodhead or bust!! (not sure what year though...)Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:58:32 -0700
Got home all fired up and the engine mount is done, the firewall is done andthe engine is hanging on the mount!!Brodhead or bust!! (not sure what year though...)Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:58:32 -0700