Original Posted By: Harvey Rule
HlloWhat about the little dhyedral I saw in some piets? How affect the stability and performance?, it is good, it is bad... thank you.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: dhyedral
> Pietenpol-List: dhyedral
Original Posted By:> mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com
Dhyedral always gives more stability unless its anhyedral which they use in fighter planes.Watch pigeons fly=2Cthey use dhyedral like crazy. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: dhyedral
Dhyedral always gives more stability unless its anhyedral which they use in fighter planes.Watch pigeons fly=2Cthey use dhyedral like crazy. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: dhyedral
Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: Harvey Rule
So, why some airplanes have and some no? how much is too much, which things youhave to take in account to do it with or without? I do not find anything aboutthis configuration... RegardsMarioRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
So, why some airplanes have and some no? how much is too much, which things youhave to take in account to do it with or without? I do not find anything aboutthis configuration... RegardsMarioRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
> Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By:> mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com
It's really up to you as to how much or how little you want.A couple of inches is really all you'll ever need just to give you some stability.If you go to far like about 6 inches then you have more than enough and the plane will be so stable that you'll fall asleep flying it.Fighter planes have anhyedral because they want them very unstable for doing things in the air that fighters have to do to get out of situations.The first plane I ever flew was a Quicksilver ultralight and it had a lot of dhyedral.Probably too much.As I recall it would practically fly itself.It's your personal preference really.It's your airplane.What do you want it to do? > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
It's really up to you as to how much or how little you want.A couple of inches is really all you'll ever need just to give you some stability.If you go to far like about 6 inches then you have more than enough and the plane will be so stable that you'll fall asleep flying it.Fighter planes have anhyedral because they want them very unstable for doing things in the air that fighters have to do to get out of situations.The first plane I ever flew was a Quicksilver ultralight and it had a lot of dhyedral.Probably too much.As I recall it would practically fly itself.It's your personal preference really.It's your airplane.What do you want it to do? > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: Roman Bukolt
Get the cheapest gamepad you can find, configure the stick controls like that ofan RC control box(i.e. right side for ail/elev, left for rudder). Go into FScontrol settings (sensitivity) and set them (especially ailerons) less responsive,and you gotta Piet. Generally, the more expensive the joystick, the crappierthe 'feel'.... then when ur online, go to weather and click on the static'actual wx' box and download the 'live' wx.. actual winds, etc.. fly outta urhome field. Then see how close it compares to reality.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Get the cheapest gamepad you can find, configure the stick controls like that ofan RC control box(i.e. right side for ail/elev, left for rudder). Go into FScontrol settings (sensitivity) and set them (especially ailerons) less responsive,and you gotta Piet. Generally, the more expensive the joystick, the crappierthe 'feel'.... then when ur online, go to weather and click on the static'actual wx' box and download the 'live' wx.. actual winds, etc.. fly outta urhome field. Then see how close it compares to reality.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
I think you mean dihedral. right?On Nov 29, 2010, at 6:47 PM, giacummo wrote:> > So, why some airplanes have and some no? how much is too much, which things youhave to take in account to do it with or without? I do not find anything aboutthis configuration... > > Regards> > Mario> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 657#321657> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 00:50:30 -0800
I think you mean dihedral. right?On Nov 29, 2010, at 6:47 PM, giacummo wrote:> > So, why some airplanes have and some no? how much is too much, which things youhave to take in account to do it with or without? I do not find anything aboutthis configuration... > > Regards> > Mario> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 657#321657> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 00:50:30 -0800
Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: "GliderMike"
FYI everyone,=C2-If you=99re considering a smoke system, ck out aeroconversions.com and go to =9Caccessories=9D.=C2- They make a nice 1.7 gal aluminum tank that mounts to the firewall and comes with the associated pumps, switches etc.=C2- It=99s much more pricey than doing it yourself, but it might be worth it as a time savor for some.=C2-Douwe=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
FYI everyone,=C2-If you=99re considering a smoke system, ck out aeroconversions.com and go to =9Caccessories=9D.=C2- They make a nice 1.7 gal aluminum tank that mounts to the firewall and comes with the associated pumps, switches etc.=C2- It=99s much more pricey than doing it yourself, but it might be worth it as a time savor for some.=C2-Douwe=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I=92ve flown Pietenpols with and without dihedral and can=92t tell muchdifference in stability. I have about =BD=94 dihedral per side in my Pietenpol,and its stability is no better than the straight wing Piets I=92ve flown. Youwould probably need several inches per side to be able to get muchstability, and that much would look funny, like a model airplane.Jack PhillipsNX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94Raleigh, NC _____
I=92ve flown Pietenpols with and without dihedral and can=92t tell muchdifference in stability. I have about =BD=94 dihedral per side in my Pietenpol,and its stability is no better than the straight wing Piets I=92ve flown. Youwould probably need several inches per side to be able to get muchstability, and that much would look funny, like a model airplane.Jack PhillipsNX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94Raleigh, NC _____
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
OK, thanks all for the answersRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
OK, thanks all for the answersRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: Ameet Savant
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
I built 1 degree into my one piece wing which amounts to the tips being 3 incheshigher than the center. The reason I did that was from an experience with aStinson 108 that I owned. A prior owner had shortened the struts so the wing hadZERO dihedral. As long as you were doing air work or in the pattern it wasgreat. Even a short cross country was a bit aggravating because it flew like sittingon a basketball. Look down at the Sectional, look back up and you wereturning one way or the other. The dihedral makes it a lot harder to handle onthe workbench. I hope to put it on an airplane one day !--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________
I built 1 degree into my one piece wing which amounts to the tips being 3 incheshigher than the center. The reason I did that was from an experience with aStinson 108 that I owned. A prior owner had shortened the struts so the wing hadZERO dihedral. As long as you were doing air work or in the pattern it wasgreat. Even a short cross country was a bit aggravating because it flew like sittingon a basketball. Look down at the Sectional, look back up and you wereturning one way or the other. The dihedral makes it a lot harder to handle onthe workbench. I hope to put it on an airplane one day !--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: Gary Wilson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedralUnless I am missing a important point here, I trained on all Cessna's 150,152,172 so if I want that same performance style ad stability I should lookup the Cessna design ad add that exact amount to my build ad it will act or closely approximate similar flight qualities as the Cessna's that I am more used to flying and better acquainted with. Is that an accurate assessment? And if so how much does Cessna typically use in their designs? Additionally is that a value that's proportionate to the total wing span such that wings having a shorter or longer than the Cessna wing span has more or less dihedral and at what rate or ratio?I know that if want a Cessna should buy one of those, however that's not what am asking, so I would short cut the typical answers, but thanks anyway. I am more looking for comparative information and the relationship to something I am most familiar with.ThanksJohnIn a message dated 11/30/2010 8:01:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jdotson(at)centurylink.net writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" I built 1 degree into my one piece wing which amounts to the tips being 3 inches higher than the center. The reason I did that was from an experience with a Stinson 108 that I owned. A prior owner had shortened the struts so the wing had ZERO dihedral. As long as you were doing air work or in the pattern it was great. Even a short cross country was a bit aggravating because it flew like sitting on a basketball. Look down at the Sectional, lookback up and you were turning one way or the other. The dihedral makes it a lot harder to handle on the workbench. I hope to put it on an airplane one day !--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... ______Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:57:38 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedralUnless I am missing a important point here, I trained on all Cessna's 150,152,172 so if I want that same performance style ad stability I should lookup the Cessna design ad add that exact amount to my build ad it will act or closely approximate similar flight qualities as the Cessna's that I am more used to flying and better acquainted with. Is that an accurate assessment? And if so how much does Cessna typically use in their designs? Additionally is that a value that's proportionate to the total wing span such that wings having a shorter or longer than the Cessna wing span has more or less dihedral and at what rate or ratio?I know that if want a Cessna should buy one of those, however that's not what am asking, so I would short cut the typical answers, but thanks anyway. I am more looking for comparative information and the relationship to something I am most familiar with.ThanksJohnIn a message dated 11/30/2010 8:01:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jdotson(at)centurylink.net writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "Jerry Dotson" I built 1 degree into my one piece wing which amounts to the tips being 3 inches higher than the center. The reason I did that was from an experience with a Stinson 108 that I owned. A prior owner had shortened the struts so the wing had ZERO dihedral. As long as you were doing air work or in the pattern it was great. Even a short cross country was a bit aggravating because it flew like sitting on a basketball. Look down at the Sectional, lookback up and you were turning one way or the other. The dihedral makes it a lot harder to handle on the workbench. I hope to put it on an airplane one day !--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... ______Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:57:38 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
John,Taking one design element from a Cessna (i.e. amount of dihedral) and applying it to a Piet won't have the same affect. We're also talking about high wing vs. a parasol. If I remember my ancient history (meaning the Aero classes I took 35+ years ago) positive dihedral will IN GENERAL affect a parasol more than a closed cabin high wing like a Cessna. In other words a parasol probably has more inherent stability than a high wing cabin monoplane with equivalent dihedral. In reality however, you have to take in account the whole aircraft - where's the CG in relation to the wing, configuration (parasol, high wing, low wing), wing planform, aileron configuration (frieze type vs hinged flap, sealed vs unsealed, etc.), and I'd guess even the effects of the tail (tail arm, rudder & fin size) - to decide how much dihedral is appropriate. Remember, no part of the airplane flys by itself.=46rom evidence presented here, it sounds like Piet's have flown with either no, or from 1 - 2 degrees, dihedral. I'd bet that sealing the aileron gap has more affect on overall handling than adding a degree if dihedral. I'll probably put in a degree or so on mine, but I'm not close to that point yet.Happy building,KenOn Nov 30, 2010, at 7:29 AM, amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote:> Unless I am missing a important point here, I trained on all Cessna's 150,152,172 so if I want that same performance style ad stability I should look up the Cessna design ad add that exact amount to my build ad it will act or closely approximate similar flight qualities as the Cessna's that I am more used to flying and better acquainted with. Is that an accurate assessment? And if so how much does Cessna typically use in their designs? Additionally is that a value that's proportionate to the total wing span such that wings having a shorter or longer than the Cessna wing span has more or less dihedral and at what rate or ratio?> > I know that if want a Cessna should buy one of those, however that's not what am asking, so I would short cut the typical answers, but thanks anyway. I am more looking for comparative information and the relationship to something I am most familiar with.> > Thanks> > John> > > > In a message dated 11/30/2010 8:01:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jdotson(at)centurylink.net writes:> > I built 1 degree into my one piece wing which amounts to the tips being 3 inches higher than the center. The reason I did that was from an experience with a Stinson 108 that I owned. A prior owner had shortened the struts so the wing had ZERO dihedral. As long as you were doing air work or in the pattern it was great. Even a short cross country was a bit aggravating because it flew like sitting on a basketball. Look down at the Sectional, look back up and you were turning one way or the other. The dihedral makes it a lot harder to handle on the workbench. I hope to put it on an airplane one day !> > --------> Jerry Dotson> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd> Baker, FL 32531> > Started building NX510JD July, 2009> wing, tailfeathers done> using Lycoming O-235> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 773#321773> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00251_337.jpg> http://fo=======================nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts ilder's ELP b k you for p; -Matt Dralle, List ======================== Use the ties Day ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
John,Taking one design element from a Cessna (i.e. amount of dihedral) and applying it to a Piet won't have the same affect. We're also talking about high wing vs. a parasol. If I remember my ancient history (meaning the Aero classes I took 35+ years ago) positive dihedral will IN GENERAL affect a parasol more than a closed cabin high wing like a Cessna. In other words a parasol probably has more inherent stability than a high wing cabin monoplane with equivalent dihedral. In reality however, you have to take in account the whole aircraft - where's the CG in relation to the wing, configuration (parasol, high wing, low wing), wing planform, aileron configuration (frieze type vs hinged flap, sealed vs unsealed, etc.), and I'd guess even the effects of the tail (tail arm, rudder & fin size) - to decide how much dihedral is appropriate. Remember, no part of the airplane flys by itself.=46rom evidence presented here, it sounds like Piet's have flown with either no, or from 1 - 2 degrees, dihedral. I'd bet that sealing the aileron gap has more affect on overall handling than adding a degree if dihedral. I'll probably put in a degree or so on mine, but I'm not close to that point yet.Happy building,KenOn Nov 30, 2010, at 7:29 AM, amsafetyc(at)aol.com wrote:> Unless I am missing a important point here, I trained on all Cessna's 150,152,172 so if I want that same performance style ad stability I should look up the Cessna design ad add that exact amount to my build ad it will act or closely approximate similar flight qualities as the Cessna's that I am more used to flying and better acquainted with. Is that an accurate assessment? And if so how much does Cessna typically use in their designs? Additionally is that a value that's proportionate to the total wing span such that wings having a shorter or longer than the Cessna wing span has more or less dihedral and at what rate or ratio?> > I know that if want a Cessna should buy one of those, however that's not what am asking, so I would short cut the typical answers, but thanks anyway. I am more looking for comparative information and the relationship to something I am most familiar with.> > Thanks> > John> > > > In a message dated 11/30/2010 8:01:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jdotson(at)centurylink.net writes:> > I built 1 degree into my one piece wing which amounts to the tips being 3 inches higher than the center. The reason I did that was from an experience with a Stinson 108 that I owned. A prior owner had shortened the struts so the wing had ZERO dihedral. As long as you were doing air work or in the pattern it was great. Even a short cross country was a bit aggravating because it flew like sitting on a basketball. Look down at the Sectional, look back up and you were turning one way or the other. The dihedral makes it a lot harder to handle on the workbench. I hope to put it on an airplane one day !> > --------> Jerry Dotson> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd> Baker, FL 32531> > Started building NX510JD July, 2009> wing, tailfeathers done> using Lycoming O-235> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 773#321773> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc00251_337.jpg> http://fo=======================nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts ilder's ELP b k you for p; -Matt Dralle, List ======================== Use the ties Day ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: early builder
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedralThanks guys, I appreciate the insight especially in attempting to gain a perspective on the entire issue and its effect on the Piet as opposed t other popular aircraft designs.JohnIn a message dated 11/30/2010 11:54:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ken@cooper-mtn.com writes:John, Taking one design element from a Cessna (i.e. amount of dihedral) and applying it to a Piet won't have the same affect. We're also talking about highwing vs. a parasol. If I remember my ancient history (meaning the Aero classes I took 35+ years ago) positive dihedral will IN GENERAL affect a parasol more than a closed cabin high wing like a Cessna. In other words a parasol probably has more inherent stability than a high wing cabin monoplane with equivalent dihedral. In reality however, you have to take in account the whole aircraft - where's the CG in relation to the wing, configuration (parasol, high wing, low wing), wing planform, aileron configuration (frieze type vs hinged flap, sealed vs unsealed, etc.), and I'd guess even the effects of the tail (tail arm, rudder & fin size) - to decide how much dihedralis appropriate. Remember, no part of the airplane flys by itself.>From evidence presented here, it sounds like Piet's have flown with either no, or from 1 - 2 degrees, dihedral. I'd bet that sealing the aileron gap has more affect on overall handling than adding a degree if dihedral. I'll probably put in a degree or so on mine, but I'm not close to that point yet.Happy building,KenOn Nov 30, 2010, at 7:29 AM, _amsafetyc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:amsafetyc(at)aol.com) wrote:Unless I am missing a important point here, I trained on all Cessna's 150,152,172 so if I want that same performance style ad stability I should lookup the Cessna design ad add that exact amount to my build ad it will act or closely approximate similar flight qualities as the Cessna's that I am more used to flying and better acquainted with. Is that an accurate assessment? And if so how much does Cessna typically use in their designs? Additionally is that a value that's proportionate to the total wing span suchthat wings having a shorter or longer than the Cessna wing span has more or less dihedral and at what rate or ratio?I know that if want a Cessna should buy one of those, however that's not what am asking, so I would short cut the typical answers, but thanks anyway. I am more looking for comparative information and the relationship tosomething I am most familiar with.ThanksJohnIn a message dated 11/30/2010 8:01:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _jdotson(at)centurylink.net_ (mailto:jdotson(at)centurylink.net) writes:I built 1 degree into my one piece wing which amounts to the tips being 3 inches higher than the center. The reason I did that was from an experience with a Stinson 108 that I owned. A prior owner had shortened the strutsso the wing had ZERO dihedral. As long as you were doing air work or in the pattern it was great. Even a short cross country was a bit aggravating because it flew like sitting on a basketball. Look down at the Sectional, lookback up and you were turning one way or the other. The dihedral makes it a lot harder to handle on the workbench. I hope to put it on an airplane one day !--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321773#321773_ (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 773#321773) Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... ======nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts ilder's ELP b k you for p; -Matt Dralle, List ======================== Use the ties Day ======================= - MATRONICSWEB FORUMS href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroe ... sbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> ... ntribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... enpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://fo ... tric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:10:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedralThanks guys, I appreciate the insight especially in attempting to gain a perspective on the entire issue and its effect on the Piet as opposed t other popular aircraft designs.JohnIn a message dated 11/30/2010 11:54:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ken@cooper-mtn.com writes:John, Taking one design element from a Cessna (i.e. amount of dihedral) and applying it to a Piet won't have the same affect. We're also talking about highwing vs. a parasol. If I remember my ancient history (meaning the Aero classes I took 35+ years ago) positive dihedral will IN GENERAL affect a parasol more than a closed cabin high wing like a Cessna. In other words a parasol probably has more inherent stability than a high wing cabin monoplane with equivalent dihedral. In reality however, you have to take in account the whole aircraft - where's the CG in relation to the wing, configuration (parasol, high wing, low wing), wing planform, aileron configuration (frieze type vs hinged flap, sealed vs unsealed, etc.), and I'd guess even the effects of the tail (tail arm, rudder & fin size) - to decide how much dihedralis appropriate. Remember, no part of the airplane flys by itself.>From evidence presented here, it sounds like Piet's have flown with either no, or from 1 - 2 degrees, dihedral. I'd bet that sealing the aileron gap has more affect on overall handling than adding a degree if dihedral. I'll probably put in a degree or so on mine, but I'm not close to that point yet.Happy building,KenOn Nov 30, 2010, at 7:29 AM, _amsafetyc(at)aol.com_ (mailto:amsafetyc(at)aol.com) wrote:Unless I am missing a important point here, I trained on all Cessna's 150,152,172 so if I want that same performance style ad stability I should lookup the Cessna design ad add that exact amount to my build ad it will act or closely approximate similar flight qualities as the Cessna's that I am more used to flying and better acquainted with. Is that an accurate assessment? And if so how much does Cessna typically use in their designs? Additionally is that a value that's proportionate to the total wing span suchthat wings having a shorter or longer than the Cessna wing span has more or less dihedral and at what rate or ratio?I know that if want a Cessna should buy one of those, however that's not what am asking, so I would short cut the typical answers, but thanks anyway. I am more looking for comparative information and the relationship tosomething I am most familiar with.ThanksJohnIn a message dated 11/30/2010 8:01:09 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, _jdotson(at)centurylink.net_ (mailto:jdotson(at)centurylink.net) writes:I built 1 degree into my one piece wing which amounts to the tips being 3 inches higher than the center. The reason I did that was from an experience with a Stinson 108 that I owned. A prior owner had shortened the strutsso the wing had ZERO dihedral. As long as you were doing air work or in the pattern it was great. Even a short cross country was a bit aggravating because it flew like sitting on a basketball. Look down at the Sectional, lookback up and you were turning one way or the other. The dihedral makes it a lot harder to handle on the workbench. I hope to put it on an airplane one day !--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321773#321773_ (http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 773#321773) Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... ======nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE to find Gifts ilder's ELP b k you for p; -Matt Dralle, List ======================== Use the ties Day ======================= - MATRONICSWEB FORUMS href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroe ... sbooks.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> ... ntribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... enpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://fo ... tric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 12:10:41 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: Re: rib fabircators
Original Posted By: "Dangerous Dave"
FYI everyone,If you're considering a smoke system, ck out aeroconversions.com and go to"accessories". They make a nice 1.7 gal aluminum tank that mounts to thefirewall and comes with the associated pumps, switches etc. It's much morepricey than doing it yourself, but it might be worth it as a time savor forsome.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib fabircators
FYI everyone,If you're considering a smoke system, ck out aeroconversions.com and go to"accessories". They make a nice 1.7 gal aluminum tank that mounts to thefirewall and comes with the associated pumps, switches etc. It's much morepricey than doing it yourself, but it might be worth it as a time savor forsome.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib fabircators
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib fabircators
Original Posted By: Kimball Isaac
http://www.westernaircraftspruce.com/aboutus.phptry these guys,they are good folks and have been building Piet kits for a longtime.They build ribs as far as I know.Dave--------Building a PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 19:48:34 -0800Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib fabircators
http://www.westernaircraftspruce.com/aboutus.phptry these guys,they are good folks and have been building Piet kits for a longtime.They build ribs as far as I know.Dave--------Building a PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 19:48:34 -0800Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib fabircators
Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: "Jerry Dotson"
OK, this may sound like a dumb question, but to be able to put in a little dihedral,are you shaping the spar to do it on a one piece wing, or something else.on a 3 piece wing, I would think you could build the dihedral in when the attachbrackets were built or attached. Since I've never built a flying modelairplane, and the only aircraft I have built was a hot air balloon, I don't haveany experience to fall back on.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
OK, this may sound like a dumb question, but to be able to put in a little dihedral,are you shaping the spar to do it on a one piece wing, or something else.on a 3 piece wing, I would think you could build the dihedral in when the attachbrackets were built or attached. Since I've never built a flying modelairplane, and the only aircraft I have built was a hot air balloon, I don't haveany experience to fall back on.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
RE: Pietenpol-List: rib fabircators
Original Posted By: early builder
Edgar Howe from NW Indiana was one of the people at Brodhead who had ribs for sale. He can be reached at 219-508 -6880. I am sure he has a set available.-Rick SchreiberValparaiso Indiana------- Original Message -----
Edgar Howe from NW Indiana was one of the people at Brodhead who had ribs for sale. He can be reached at 219-508 -6880. I am sure he has a set available.-Rick SchreiberValparaiso Indiana------- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: "BYD"
Mike, I cut the angles on the spar splice and the plates of 1/4" plywood.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Mike, I cut the angles on the spar splice and the plates of 1/4" plywood.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Pietenpol-List: Re: rib fabircators
Original Posted By: "dgaldrich"
I dont have theories or a lot of book learning to back up the dihedral debate,but I have owned and operated a Pietenpol with anhyedral and can say that it isdefinitely undesirable. It would fall off to one side or the other (not verypredictable) during every stall and that included landings. Many exciting timesoccurred as a result. Most of the time things went well.I have been told (but can not verify that source has since passed away) that Bernardhad two people lift up on the wingtips when he measured for the strut lengthson his one-piece wings to obtain a little dihedral.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib fabircators
I dont have theories or a lot of book learning to back up the dihedral debate,but I have owned and operated a Pietenpol with anhyedral and can say that it isdefinitely undesirable. It would fall off to one side or the other (not verypredictable) during every stall and that included landings. Many exciting timesoccurred as a result. Most of the time things went well.I have been told (but can not verify that source has since passed away) that Bernardhad two people lift up on the wingtips when he measured for the strut lengthson his one-piece wings to obtain a little dihedral.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rib fabircators
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Last year at Brodhead, there were two complete sets of original ribs that lookednicely fabricated. $300 is the price that I remember. Can't guarantee whatwill be there this year but at least it's a data point.DaveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Last year at Brodhead, there were two complete sets of original ribs that lookednicely fabricated. $300 is the price that I remember. Can't guarantee whatwill be there this year but at least it's a data point.DaveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: dihedral
Original Posted By: "Richard Schreiber"
Scout has 3" of dihedral. I wish I could find the picture thatKevin posted where our two airplanes appear in the same pictureso you can see the marked difference between Fat Girl with zerodihedral and Scout with 3". Although I always thought the dihedralon my airplane was hardly noticeable, in a side-by-side photoit's remarkable.I've never flown another Piet so I have no idea how it affectsthe handling qualities.To the comment about rigging like a Cessna 150, besides the othercomments already offered I would add that there are a whole lot ofother differences between the two wings... the Cessna has a gooddeal of washout, the wing planform is tapered at its outboard end,and it's a different airfoil. Anyway, it's another case of thesame old "less filling... more taste" discussion, so I guess we'llhave another round ;o)Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"San Antonio, TXwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Scout has 3" of dihedral. I wish I could find the picture thatKevin posted where our two airplanes appear in the same pictureso you can see the marked difference between Fat Girl with zerodihedral and Scout with 3". Although I always thought the dihedralon my airplane was hardly noticeable, in a side-by-side photoit's remarkable.I've never flown another Piet so I have no idea how it affectsthe handling qualities.To the comment about rigging like a Cessna 150, besides the othercomments already offered I would add that there are a whole lot ofother differences between the two wings... the Cessna has a gooddeal of washout, the wing planform is tapered at its outboard end,and it's a different airfoil. Anyway, it's another case of thesame old "less filling... more taste" discussion, so I guess we'llhave another round ;o)Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"San Antonio, TXwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: rib fabircators
Original Posted By: early builder
Edgar Howe from NW Indiana was one of the people at Brodhead who had ribs for sale.He can be reached at 219-508 -6880. I am sure he has a set available.Rick SchreiberValparaiso Indiana----- Original Message -----
Edgar Howe from NW Indiana was one of the people at Brodhead who had ribs for sale.He can be reached at 219-508 -6880. I am sure he has a set available.Rick SchreiberValparaiso Indiana----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: dihedral
Original Posted By: early builder
This photo shows the difference in dihedral between the two aircraft pretty well.If it's a calm day Fat Girl can fly hands off for several seconds at a time. Ifthere are any bumps its hands-on all the way. It's been years since I've flown another Piet. I don't remember how they handledso I cannot offer a comparison. I am biased, but I do not find the aircraft particularly difficult or tedious tofly in regards to stability.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fat_ ... ______Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 06:12:54 -0800 (PST)
This photo shows the difference in dihedral between the two aircraft pretty well.If it's a calm day Fat Girl can fly hands off for several seconds at a time. Ifthere are any bumps its hands-on all the way. It's been years since I've flown another Piet. I don't remember how they handledso I cannot offer a comparison. I am biased, but I do not find the aircraft particularly difficult or tedious tofly in regards to stability.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fat_ ... ______Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 06:12:54 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
The flying and glider manual for 1933 with the scout plans actually says that exactlyon page 40... " Next have someone hold up the end of the wing so it will have a little dihedral,and measure the length of the front struts. these should both be exactlythe same length"jeffRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 14:40:38 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
The flying and glider manual for 1933 with the scout plans actually says that exactlyon page 40... " Next have someone hold up the end of the wing so it will have a little dihedral,and measure the length of the front struts. these should both be exactlythe same length"jeffRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 14:40:38 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> m>> > Hllo> What about the little dhyedral I saw in some piets? > How affect the stability and performance?=2C it is good=2C it is bad... > > thank you.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 356#321356> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> m>> > Hllo> What about the little dhyedral I saw in some piets? > How affect the stability and performance?=2C it is good=2C it is bad... > > thank you.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 356#321356> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: "giacummo"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > So, why some airplanes have and some no? how much is too much, whichthings you have to take in account to do it with or without? I do not findanything about this configuration... > > Regards> > Mario> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 657#321657> > > ====================> _========> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> > > So, why some airplanes have and some no? how much is too much, whichthings you have to take in account to do it with or without? I do not findanything about this configuration... > > Regards> > Mario> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 657#321657> > > ====================> _========> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
> > Pietenpol-List: Re: dhyedral
Original Posted By: Kenneth Howe
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >> mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>> >> > So, why some airplanes have and some no? how much is too much, which> things you have to take in account to do it with or without? I do not find> anything about this configuration...> >> > Regards> >> > Mario> >> >> >> >> > Read this topic online here:> >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 657#321657> >> >> > ====================> > _========> >> >> >>> * *>> * *>> **>> **>> **>> **>> *www.buildersbooks.com*>> **>> **>> **>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*>> **>> **>> *http://forums.matronics.com*>> **>> *>=============================================*>>________________________________________________________________________________
> > To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >> mario.giacummo(at)gmail.com>> >> > So, why some airplanes have and some no? how much is too much, which> things you have to take in account to do it with or without? I do not find> anything about this configuration...> >> > Regards> >> > Mario> >> >> >> >> > Read this topic online here:> >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 657#321657> >> >> > ====================> > _========> >> >> >>> * *>> * *>> **>> **>> **>> **>> *www.buildersbooks.com*>> **>> **>> **>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*>> **>> **>> *http://forums.matronics.com*>> **>> *>=============================================*>>________________________________________________________________________________