Original Posted By: "Dick Navratil"
I'm using aluminum piano hinges on my ailerons. I noticed that in one of Tony Bingelis'books, he cautions on using hinges that are one long continuous run asthey can bind due to spar flexing during tight turns. My question is, thoseof you that have used piano hinges did you use one continuous 6 foot hinge ordid you cut it into shorter sections? Those of you that have used one continuousrun, have you experienced any binding? I think I remember Walt Evans, sayingawhile back that he used a continuous run and has had no issues. Is that stillthe case Walt?Thanks,Richard Schreiberlmforge(at)earthlink.netWhy Wait? Move to EarthLink.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: Richard Schreiber
I have made 2 wings with a continous 6 ft hinge. One is a on piece wing the other is a 3 piece. I havent had any problems with binding.Dick N ----- Original Message -----
I have made 2 wings with a continous 6 ft hinge. One is a on piece wing the other is a 3 piece. I havent had any problems with binding.Dick N ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I was rebuilding a KR-2 once and two builders pointed out that it only hadthree short pieces of aileron hinge and the plans called for a continuoushinge. I redid it with continuous hinge then read the same thing in thebook and thought I might have made a mistake. I did some research and foundthat pretty much all of the KRs have a continuous hinge and it is also theaileron gap seal. No one had ever had a binding problem. The only bindingproblem I heard of was on an aluminum plane that was overstressed and had apermanent deformation of the wing.Thinking about it, if you flexed the spars in the wing enough to cause abind and you had the short sections I would thing that would also cause youa binding problem because the aileron spar is probably not going to flexwith the wing sparBrian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----
I was rebuilding a KR-2 once and two builders pointed out that it only hadthree short pieces of aileron hinge and the plans called for a continuoushinge. I redid it with continuous hinge then read the same thing in thebook and thought I might have made a mistake. I did some research and foundthat pretty much all of the KRs have a continuous hinge and it is also theaileron gap seal. No one had ever had a binding problem. The only bindingproblem I heard of was on an aluminum plane that was overstressed and had apermanent deformation of the wing.Thinking about it, if you flexed the spars in the wing enough to cause abind and you had the short sections I would thing that would also cause youa binding problem because the aileron spar is probably not going to flexwith the wing sparBrian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By:
I was rebuilding a KR-2 once and two builders pointed out that it only had three short pieces of aileron hinge and the plans called for a continuous hinge. I redid it with continuous hinge then read the same thing in the book and thought I might have made a mistake. I did some research and found that pretty much all of the KRs have a continuous hinge and it is also the aileron gapseal. No one had ever had a binding problem. The only binding problem I heard of was on an aluminum plane that was overstressed and had apermanent deformation of the wing.Thinking about it, if you flexed the spars in the wing enough to cause a bind and you had the short sections I would thing that would also cause you a binding problem because the aileron spar is probably not going to flex with the wing spar Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----
I was rebuilding a KR-2 once and two builders pointed out that it only had three short pieces of aileron hinge and the plans called for a continuous hinge. I redid it with continuous hinge then read the same thing in the book and thought I might have made a mistake. I did some research and found that pretty much all of the KRs have a continuous hinge and it is also the aileron gapseal. No one had ever had a binding problem. The only binding problem I heard of was on an aluminum plane that was overstressed and had apermanent deformation of the wing.Thinking about it, if you flexed the spars in the wing enough to cause a bind and you had the short sections I would thing that would also cause you a binding problem because the aileron spar is probably not going to flex with the wing spar Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I was rebuilding a KR-2 once and two builders pointed out that it onlyhad three short pieces of aileron hinge and the plans called for acontinuous hinge. I redid it with continuous hinge then read the samething in the book and thought I might have made a mistake. I did someresearch and found that pretty much all of the KRs have a continuoushinge and it is also the aileron gap seal. No one had ever had abinding problem. The only binding problem I heard of was on an aluminumplane that was overstressed and had a permanent deformation of the wing.Thinking about it, if you flexed the spars in the wing enough to cause abind and you had the short sections I would thing that would also causeyou a binding problem because the aileron spar is probably not going toflex with the wing spar Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----
I was rebuilding a KR-2 once and two builders pointed out that it onlyhad three short pieces of aileron hinge and the plans called for acontinuous hinge. I redid it with continuous hinge then read the samething in the book and thought I might have made a mistake. I did someresearch and found that pretty much all of the KRs have a continuoushinge and it is also the aileron gap seal. No one had ever had abinding problem. The only binding problem I heard of was on an aluminumplane that was overstressed and had a permanent deformation of the wing.Thinking about it, if you flexed the spars in the wing enough to cause abind and you had the short sections I would thing that would also causeyou a binding problem because the aileron spar is probably not going toflex with the wing spar Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: brian.kraut(at)engalt.com
Not at this stage yet but thinking about it. Would it make sense to keep the hinge full length to make it easier to install and line up and but cut the pin into shorter sections. The only drawback to this is it would be harder to remove the pin. They would have to be pushed out with a smaller diameter full length one.Steve from maine in boise
Not at this stage yet but thinking about it. Would it make sense to keep the hinge full length to make it easier to install and line up and but cut the pin into shorter sections. The only drawback to this is it would be harder to remove the pin. They would have to be pushed out with a smaller diameter full length one.Steve from maine in boise
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: santiago morete
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron HingeIn a message dated 1/2/2008 10:06:08 AM Central Standard Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes:Just do it the easy way =93 one long hinge with one long pin. Jack Phillips NX899JP I think the easy way is to use the plans 'Barn Door' type hinge...cheaper, lighter, simpler.Chuck G.NX770CG(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?N ... 0000000004)________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron HingeIn a message dated 1/2/2008 10:06:08 AM Central Standard Time, Jack.Phillips(at)cardinalhealth.com writes:Just do it the easy way =93 one long hinge with one long pin. Jack Phillips NX899JP I think the easy way is to use the plans 'Barn Door' type hinge...cheaper, lighter, simpler.Chuck G.NX770CG(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?N ... 0000000004)________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron HingeExcuse my butting in but if you experience an aeliron bending bind while flying a Piet you better consider just going over the side.Happy New Year of SAFE building and flying from:Isabelle and Corky(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?N ... 0000000004)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron HingeDate: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:13:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron HingeExcuse my butting in but if you experience an aeliron bending bind while flying a Piet you better consider just going over the side.Happy New Year of SAFE building and flying from:Isabelle and Corky(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?N ... 0000000004)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron HingeDate: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 14:13:59 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: Phillips, Jack
I bought one of each barn door hinge I could find. 3 inch and then 4 as well and there were allot of problems. They are all chinese and the metal is questionable. The 3 inch ones had the bend line at or crossing holes that were pre drilled. I ordered up the piano hinge and all those problems went away. I had the hinges on the wings and he ailerons aligned in less than an afternoon. The only thing I can't seem to find in Bengelis books or elsewhere is a method to secure the hinge wire. On cessnas there is a small hole with a cotter pin (TINY) and I could take it to the local machine shop and have them drill it I suppose, but I am sure there is a better way. -Scott ----- Original Message -----
I bought one of each barn door hinge I could find. 3 inch and then 4 as well and there were allot of problems. They are all chinese and the metal is questionable. The 3 inch ones had the bend line at or crossing holes that were pre drilled. I ordered up the piano hinge and all those problems went away. I had the hinges on the wings and he ailerons aligned in less than an afternoon. The only thing I can't seem to find in Bengelis books or elsewhere is a method to secure the hinge wire. On cessnas there is a small hole with a cotter pin (TINY) and I could take it to the local machine shop and have them drill it I suppose, but I am sure there is a better way. -Scott ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Dick Navratil"
I ready to mount my aluminum piano hinges on my ailerons. I plan on using flathead machine screws with a 100 deg. bevel as a number of others have done. Myquestion is what size? If I were using hex head bolts or round head screws, I'msure that 6-32's would be OK. With the countersunk heads do I need to go toan 8-32 or even a 10-32 to make sure the heads hold in the aluminum?Rick SchreiberValparaiso, In________________________________________________________________________________
I ready to mount my aluminum piano hinges on my ailerons. I plan on using flathead machine screws with a 100 deg. bevel as a number of others have done. Myquestion is what size? If I were using hex head bolts or round head screws, I'msure that 6-32's would be OK. With the countersunk heads do I need to go toan 8-32 or even a 10-32 to make sure the heads hold in the aluminum?Rick SchreiberValparaiso, In________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: Richard Schreiber
I used 8-32 and they worked well for me.Dick N. ----- Original Message -----
I used 8-32 and they worked well for me.Dick N. ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Jack T. Textor"
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
The "secret" here is fastener spacing. If you use smaller fasteners, youneed to use more of them, and space them closer together. A #6 screw willhave about 70% of the load carrying capacity of a #8 screw (based oncross-sectional area). But these screws are not really under a lot ofstress. The limiting factor here is really going to be the screw head makingcontact with the hinge. And since the hinge thickness is less than the depthof the countersunk screw head, it won't really make any difference whetheryou use a #6, #8, #10 or even 1/4" bolts for that matter. All you have towork with is the thickness of the hinge leaf, which is probably only .04" or.05". Using 100 degree flat head screws is definitely an improvement overstandard 80 degree screws. Another option is to use a low profile screwhead, such as a washer head or truss head screw (these are not countersunk).In #6 or #8 size, the height of the screw head will be approximately thesame as the diameter of the hinge pin (and thus, also the same as the gapbetween the leaves of the hinge when closed). This type of screw is muchbetter suited to this application, where the countersunk screw head cannotpossibly be used to it's full potential (due to limited thickness of thematerial being countersunk). In this case it is important to stagger theholes on opposing leaves of the hinge, to avoid having the screw headscollide when the hinge is closed.Bill C. _____
The "secret" here is fastener spacing. If you use smaller fasteners, youneed to use more of them, and space them closer together. A #6 screw willhave about 70% of the load carrying capacity of a #8 screw (based oncross-sectional area). But these screws are not really under a lot ofstress. The limiting factor here is really going to be the screw head makingcontact with the hinge. And since the hinge thickness is less than the depthof the countersunk screw head, it won't really make any difference whetheryou use a #6, #8, #10 or even 1/4" bolts for that matter. All you have towork with is the thickness of the hinge leaf, which is probably only .04" or.05". Using 100 degree flat head screws is definitely an improvement overstandard 80 degree screws. Another option is to use a low profile screwhead, such as a washer head or truss head screw (these are not countersunk).In #6 or #8 size, the height of the screw head will be approximately thesame as the diameter of the hinge pin (and thus, also the same as the gapbetween the leaves of the hinge when closed). This type of screw is muchbetter suited to this application, where the countersunk screw head cannotpossibly be used to it's full potential (due to limited thickness of thematerial being countersunk). In this case it is important to stagger theholes on opposing leaves of the hinge, to avoid having the screw headscollide when the hinge is closed.Bill C. _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Jerry Dotson"
Thanks Jack on your advise on the full span piano hinge serving a dual purpose. Just to clarify, the wings were built by someone else who started the project and he had used the strap hinges and welded the loops closed causing distortion and poor alignment of the hinge half's. A gap of 3/8" was maintained between the aileron beams as per drawings, so to replace the strap hinges with a continuous piano hinge, I would have to mount the hinge on the flat similar to what Jerry has done in order to keep the trailing edges of the wing and aileron aligned due to the existing gap.Although I would prefer the method used by Mike Cuy (as per his pics on Westcoast Piet) and I think yours Jack, would there be any structural integrity differences between the two?Jerry could you give me the opened size of the hinge if you know it off handThanks again in advance for you inputs.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 7#325057le, List Admin.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Thanks Jack on your advise on the full span piano hinge serving a dual purpose. Just to clarify, the wings were built by someone else who started the project and he had used the strap hinges and welded the loops closed causing distortion and poor alignment of the hinge half's. A gap of 3/8" was maintained between the aileron beams as per drawings, so to replace the strap hinges with a continuous piano hinge, I would have to mount the hinge on the flat similar to what Jerry has done in order to keep the trailing edges of the wing and aileron aligned due to the existing gap.Although I would prefer the method used by Mike Cuy (as per his pics on Westcoast Piet) and I think yours Jack, would there be any structural integrity differences between the two?Jerry could you give me the opened size of the hinge if you know it off handThanks again in advance for you inputs.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 7#325057le, List Admin.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
RE: Pietenpol-List: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Adrian,Having flown Pietenpols with and without the aileron gaps sealed, I wouldstrongly urge you to use aluminum piano hinges the full length of theaileron. Without the gaps sealed, the ailerons are sluggish and borderlineineffective. With full span piano hinges, you have a nice strong hinge andget the gap sealed for free.One word of advice - it is far easier if you use one 6 foot piece of pianohinge per aileron. I followed the advice given by Tony Bingelis and brokemy hinges up into 6 12" sections so that if the wing was flexed while I wasinputting aileron, the hinges would not bind. Totally unnecessary, and itreally makes keeping all those hinges properly aligned very difficult. MikeCuy used one long hinge per aileron and it works just fine.Also, I would use the cheaper AN257 rather than the MS20001 type. Plentystrong enough and 1/5th the price. I used the more expensive (and stronger)MS20001 type but would not do so if I were to do it over.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Adrian,Having flown Pietenpols with and without the aileron gaps sealed, I wouldstrongly urge you to use aluminum piano hinges the full length of theaileron. Without the gaps sealed, the ailerons are sluggish and borderlineineffective. With full span piano hinges, you have a nice strong hinge andget the gap sealed for free.One word of advice - it is far easier if you use one 6 foot piece of pianohinge per aileron. I followed the advice given by Tony Bingelis and brokemy hinges up into 6 12" sections so that if the wing was flexed while I wasinputting aileron, the hinges would not bind. Totally unnecessary, and itreally makes keeping all those hinges properly aligned very difficult. MikeCuy used one long hinge per aileron and it works just fine.Also, I would use the cheaper AN257 rather than the MS20001 type. Plentystrong enough and 1/5th the price. I used the more expensive (and stronger)MS20001 type but would not do so if I were to do it over.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: Kimball Isaac
I agree with Jack. I used full length on the tail feathers too.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/r_ai ... ______Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:41:54 -0800Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
I agree with Jack. I used full length on the tail feathers too.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/r_ai ... ______Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:41:54 -0800Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "pineymb"
I don't have many pictures. I cut a 1/16" groove in the edges and epoxied 0.060hinges in the groove. Then I put a pins through it to have an extra margin ofsafety just in case the epoxy wants to turn loose. I also made those memberswhere the hinges go 1/2" wider(front to back) to accommodate cutting the groovein them. It probably wasn't necessary but if I wear suspenders I wear a beltalso. Thickness is the same as the drawings. I got the slot cutters at HarborFreight for use on a router but wound up using my drill press with a fence onthe table so I had better control over it. I will drill the ends of the hingesand use cotter pins to secure the hinge stainless hinge pin. I tried drillingthe pins but that stainless is hard as woodpecker lips. Don't ask how many1/16 drills I broke until I finally woke up! There is also angles sawed on themso they don't bind when moved. Set the saw on 15 degrees and the fence so itleaves about 1/4" flat. That will let you have 30 degrees movement each way fromcenter.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/elev ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
I don't have many pictures. I cut a 1/16" groove in the edges and epoxied 0.060hinges in the groove. Then I put a pins through it to have an extra margin ofsafety just in case the epoxy wants to turn loose. I also made those memberswhere the hinges go 1/2" wider(front to back) to accommodate cutting the groovein them. It probably wasn't necessary but if I wear suspenders I wear a beltalso. Thickness is the same as the drawings. I got the slot cutters at HarborFreight for use on a router but wound up using my drill press with a fence onthe table so I had better control over it. I will drill the ends of the hingesand use cotter pins to secure the hinge stainless hinge pin. I tried drillingthe pins but that stainless is hard as woodpecker lips. Don't ask how many1/16 drills I broke until I finally woke up! There is also angles sawed on themso they don't bind when moved. Set the saw on 15 degrees and the fence so itleaves about 1/4" flat. That will let you have 30 degrees movement each way fromcenter.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/elev ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: shad bell
Thanks Jack on your advise on the full span piano hinge serving a dual purpose.Just to clarify, the wings were built by someone else who started the projectand he had used the strap hinges and welded the loops closed causing distortionand poor alignment of the hinge half's. A gap of 3/8" was maintained betweenthe aileron beams as per drawings, so to replace the strap hinges with a continuouspiano hinge, I would have to mount the hinge on the flat similar to whatJerry has done in order to keep the trailing edges of the wing and aileronaligned due to the existing gap.Although I would prefer the method used by Mike Cuy (as per his pics on WestcoastPiet) and I think yours Jack, would there be any structural integrity differencesbetween the two?Jerry could you give me the opened size of the hinge if you know it off handThanks again in advance for you inputs.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:01:40 -0800 (PST)
Thanks Jack on your advise on the full span piano hinge serving a dual purpose.Just to clarify, the wings were built by someone else who started the projectand he had used the strap hinges and welded the loops closed causing distortionand poor alignment of the hinge half's. A gap of 3/8" was maintained betweenthe aileron beams as per drawings, so to replace the strap hinges with a continuouspiano hinge, I would have to mount the hinge on the flat similar to whatJerry has done in order to keep the trailing edges of the wing and aileronaligned due to the existing gap.Although I would prefer the method used by Mike Cuy (as per his pics on WestcoastPiet) and I think yours Jack, would there be any structural integrity differencesbetween the two?Jerry could you give me the opened size of the hinge if you know it off handThanks again in advance for you inputs.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:01:40 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Jack"
There are cobalt bits available. Here in Canada they can behad from CrappyTire ( Canadian Tire! ) among others.These things will drill hard metals. And no, Titanium bitsdon't even come close.Clif I tried drilling the pins but that stainless is hard as woodpecker lips. Don't ask how many 1/16 drills I broke until I finally woke up! > Jerry Dotson________________________________________________________________________________
There are cobalt bits available. Here in Canada they can behad from CrappyTire ( Canadian Tire! ) among others.These things will drill hard metals. And no, Titanium bitsdon't even come close.Clif I tried drilling the pins but that stainless is hard as woodpecker lips. Don't ask how many 1/16 drills I broke until I finally woke up! > Jerry Dotson________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Adrian,Can you provide a picture? I think you should be able to make shims ofspruce that you could add to the spars to take up the space. As long as thebolts that attach the piano hinges go through the spars it should not be anissue.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Adrian,Can you provide a picture? I think you should be able to make shims ofspruce that you could add to the spars to take up the space. As long as thebolts that attach the piano hinges go through the spars it should not be anissue.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: CJ Borsuk
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
JackWent into the shop this morning and took a few pictures which hopefully show enoughdetail of the aileron hinge setup. As you can see there is serious overkillin the size of the hinges as well as the poor alignment due to the weldingof the loops. I stopped by a local hardware store and picked up various straphinges to use as samples. The plans call for a 3" light strap which I perceiveto be the length of one halve and the width being 1.25" as opposed to the 2.5"wide heavy duty hinge as shown in the pictures.Certainly like the idea of a continuous hinge which as you mentioned would involveadding two layers of 1/8" ply to the aileron beams. In your opinion wouldthe width of shim be same as the hinge or the full width of the beam to have aflat surface for the fabric finish? Haven't had any luck finding pictures of you setup so if have any and would liketo share them it would be greatly appreciated. You could forward them offlineif you prefer.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________
JackWent into the shop this morning and took a few pictures which hopefully show enoughdetail of the aileron hinge setup. As you can see there is serious overkillin the size of the hinges as well as the poor alignment due to the weldingof the loops. I stopped by a local hardware store and picked up various straphinges to use as samples. The plans call for a 3" light strap which I perceiveto be the length of one halve and the width being 1.25" as opposed to the 2.5"wide heavy duty hinge as shown in the pictures.Certainly like the idea of a continuous hinge which as you mentioned would involveadding two layers of 1/8" ply to the aileron beams. In your opinion wouldthe width of shim be same as the hinge or the full width of the beam to have aflat surface for the fabric finish? Haven't had any luck finding pictures of you setup so if have any and would liketo share them it would be greatly appreciated. You could forward them offlineif you prefer.--------Adrian MWinnipeg, MBCanadaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hi Adrian,I would probably glue a strip of 1/8" plywood the fell length of the sparsto give a smooth covering surface, as you suggested. The weight is notsignificant (and certainly less than those moster hinges and bolts you arereplacing).I really don't have any pictures that show that part of my wing. I builtthe wing and ailerons before I got a digital camera and didn't record thatportion of the project very well. I'm sure Chris Tracy must have some onhis website.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Hi Adrian,I would probably glue a strip of 1/8" plywood the fell length of the sparsto give a smooth covering surface, as you suggested. The weight is notsignificant (and certainly less than those moster hinges and bolts you arereplacing).I really don't have any pictures that show that part of my wing. I builtthe wing and ailerons before I got a digital camera and didn't record thatportion of the project very well. I'm sure Chris Tracy must have some onhis website.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Chris"
You can check out my web site, see below.--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
You can check out my web site, see below.--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
AdrianJack Textor sent some good pictures of his full span aileron hingesJack's web page is http://www.textors.com/PietProject.htmLook for the hinge pictures near the bottom. Here are a couple of them from my web page but I think they are duplicatesof his page.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20 ... 00.jpgPoke around his picture page on my website and you can see pictures of howhe instilled them.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Textor/wing.htmI also did the full span hinges but haven uploaded the pictures to thewebsite yet.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com-----Original Message-----
AdrianJack Textor sent some good pictures of his full span aileron hingesJack's web page is http://www.textors.com/PietProject.htmLook for the hinge pictures near the bottom. Here are a couple of them from my web page but I think they are duplicatesof his page.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20 ... 00.jpgPoke around his picture page on my website and you can see pictures of howhe instilled them.http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Jack%20Textor/wing.htmI also did the full span hinges but haven uploaded the pictures to thewebsite yet.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Chris"
Chris, apparently the links you sent last night are bad. My computer comes up with "Page not found" on all three links. Sure you sent the correct links or is my computer screwwy? Chuck----- Original Message -----
Chris, apparently the links you sent last night are bad. My computer comes up with "Page not found" on all three links. Sure you sent the correct links or is my computer screwwy? Chuck----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
I don't have photos of mine=2C and I know I did mine somewhat differently from Jack=2C but here is what I have. I am using piano hinges that can be put on after the wing and aileron are covered. In order to make sure that there is adequate room on the back of the spar for proper edge distance (because the top of the aileron spar is beveled) I used piano hinges that are 3" wide when open. The holes have to be around 3/4" down from the top to have enough edge distance. I bought them from McMaster Carr=2C and you can buy any width from them=2C but 3" worked. A 6' piece is around $15-18. I made the hinge even with the top of the wing=2C with nothing standing proud in the airstream. (I have a couple of pairs of other widths that I would sell - my mistakes - if anyone is interested) I made the attachment screws spaced around 6" (some even number thaty did not land on any rib) there are 10 screws per hinge (10 on the wing=2C 10 on the aileron-OFFSET so that the heads do not touch!) I used 10-32 Tee nuts=2C and I squeezed them in with a c-clamp. I put a dab of T-88 on them to help hold them in=2C but at the last second=2C I added a small scrap of thin plywood=2C maybe 1/2" by 1-1/2" across each one with glue and a single nail on each side to make absolutely sure that when I put the screw in it will not push the Tee nut out the back. (and there is a hole in the middle for the screw to go through without touching) Of course=2C they are not self-locking=2C but the screws are a little extra long=2C so if they back out it will be obvious without any chance of actually coming out. The chance of ALL 10 screws backing out enough that something falls off before I notice it is . . . well . . . it ain't gonna happen. When I put the trailing edges on the aileron=2C I made the aileron trailing edge about 1/8 to 3/16 shy of the wing. I expect the layers of fabric and tapes that will be under the piano hinge will make up the difference and they should align.There has been so much discussion=2C I thought I'd throw this out. I don't expect mine is any different from most (except Jack).Gene Rambowarm enough to get about 3 more ribs stitched yesterday ________________________________________________________________________________
I don't have photos of mine=2C and I know I did mine somewhat differently from Jack=2C but here is what I have. I am using piano hinges that can be put on after the wing and aileron are covered. In order to make sure that there is adequate room on the back of the spar for proper edge distance (because the top of the aileron spar is beveled) I used piano hinges that are 3" wide when open. The holes have to be around 3/4" down from the top to have enough edge distance. I bought them from McMaster Carr=2C and you can buy any width from them=2C but 3" worked. A 6' piece is around $15-18. I made the hinge even with the top of the wing=2C with nothing standing proud in the airstream. (I have a couple of pairs of other widths that I would sell - my mistakes - if anyone is interested) I made the attachment screws spaced around 6" (some even number thaty did not land on any rib) there are 10 screws per hinge (10 on the wing=2C 10 on the aileron-OFFSET so that the heads do not touch!) I used 10-32 Tee nuts=2C and I squeezed them in with a c-clamp. I put a dab of T-88 on them to help hold them in=2C but at the last second=2C I added a small scrap of thin plywood=2C maybe 1/2" by 1-1/2" across each one with glue and a single nail on each side to make absolutely sure that when I put the screw in it will not push the Tee nut out the back. (and there is a hole in the middle for the screw to go through without touching) Of course=2C they are not self-locking=2C but the screws are a little extra long=2C so if they back out it will be obvious without any chance of actually coming out. The chance of ALL 10 screws backing out enough that something falls off before I notice it is . . . well . . . it ain't gonna happen. When I put the trailing edges on the aileron=2C I made the aileron trailing edge about 1/8 to 3/16 shy of the wing. I expect the layers of fabric and tapes that will be under the piano hinge will make up the difference and they should align.There has been so much discussion=2C I thought I'd throw this out. I don't expect mine is any different from most (except Jack).Gene Rambowarm enough to get about 3 more ribs stitched yesterday ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
To which Jack are you referring, Gene? Me or Jack Textor? I did minepretty much as you have described, except I used multiple short pieces ofhinge (which I have already said I would NOT do again) and I used nutplatesin the inside of the spars rather than T-nuts.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC _____
To which Jack are you referring, Gene? Me or Jack Textor? I did minepretty much as you have described, except I used multiple short pieces ofhinge (which I have already said I would NOT do again) and I used nutplatesin the inside of the spars rather than T-nuts.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC _____
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
To which Jack are you referring, Gene? Me or Jack Textor? I did mine pretty much as you have described, except I used multiple short pieces of hinge (which I have already said I would NOT do again) and I used nutplates in the inside of the spars rather than T-nuts. Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Raleigh, NC------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To which Jack are you referring, Gene? Me or Jack Textor? I did mine pretty much as you have described, except I used multiple short pieces of hinge (which I have already said I would NOT do again) and I used nutplates in the inside of the spars rather than T-nuts. Jack Phillips NX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94 Raleigh, NC------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
well=2C those are differences aren't they????Gene
well=2C those are differences aren't they????Gene
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
Gene, what widths are they and how much do you want for a couple of 6-foot pairs?Chuck ----- Original Message -----
Gene, what widths are they and how much do you want for a couple of 6-foot pairs?Chuck ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Hello,I am new in this field and I need help finding the best supplier for my hinges. I need these models: http://www.spep.com/Blog/StainlessSteel ... Loops.html and http://www.spep.com/Blog/Stainless-Stee ... inges.html, but they don't sell to individuals, it's a $150 minimum order!Does anyone know of a reputable and reasonably priced site?Any help will be welcome :)Thanks,JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 4#395504le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________
Hello,I am new in this field and I need help finding the best supplier for my hinges. I need these models: http://www.spep.com/Blog/StainlessSteel ... Loops.html and http://www.spep.com/Blog/Stainless-Stee ... inges.html, but they don't sell to individuals, it's a $150 minimum order!Does anyone know of a reputable and reasonably priced site?Any help will be welcome :)Thanks,JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 4#395504le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: "John Hall"
You will find them at SNF, B&B aircraft supply carries them up to 6' length.See you thereDick N.----- Original Message -----
You will find them at SNF, B&B aircraft supply carries them up to 6' length.See you thereDick N.----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron Hinge
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
To which Jack are you referring=2C Gene? Me or Jack Textor? I did mine pretty much as you have described=2C except I used multiple short pieces of hinge (which I have already said I would NOT do again) and I used nutplates in the inside of the spars rather than T-nuts.Jack PhillipsNX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94Raleigh=2C NC
To which Jack are you referring=2C Gene? Me or Jack Textor? I did mine pretty much as you have described=2C except I used multiple short pieces of hinge (which I have already said I would NOT do again) and I used nutplates in the inside of the spars rather than T-nuts.Jack PhillipsNX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94Raleigh=2C NC