Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
Michael;This has probably already been answered, but the reason most folksgo with cabane braces forward to the firewall instead of the X-bracecables between the cabanes is that it makes it easier for passengersto get in and out of the front cockpit if those X-brace cables arenot there. Either method is fine structurally.I have seen more than one Air Camper with the X-brace cables only onone side of the cockpit (the starboard side, or 'far side' if you'retrying to climb into the front cockpit) though.If you do go with cabane brace tubes, you would do well to read andheed what William Wynne opined on the subject recently, on his websitehere: http://www.flycorvair.com/osh2010.html , photos 4 and 5 from thetop.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"San Antonio, TXwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ah, opinions...
Pietenpol-List: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
So far I've heard comments ranging from, "That's an absolutely beautiful airplane"to "That prop looks like crap!" Fortunately, most comments have been complimentary.I recently read that chrome spoked wheels on a 1920s airplane makeher look like a "tart." That one made me smile. Fat-Bottomed-Girl is a tart!That's wonderful. That's what I want her to be.I've also been told that I'm remiss for allowing the case nuts to rust on the dreadedcrank-snappin'-valve-eatin'-corvair. I've been called a liar for claimingan initial rate of climb of 700 fpm on a cool morning at sea level with theugly prop. I didn't hit that guy. The guy who commented on some metal workthat was in process, "Not much of a metal worker, are you?" came REAL close togetting smacked. Those of you who know me well know that I'm willing and able,though not likely, to do that:).I've been told that my welds look "cold." There's certainly some precedent toquestion my welding, but that specifically was not the issue.My point? Be careful who you listen to. The guys who have built their planesand have flown them a bunch are probably reliable sources of information. Like Jack said, there are a lot of opinions out there. In the Pietenpol world,I personally seek the advice of people like Jack Phillips (engineer & builder),Hans van der Voort (engineer & builder), Mike Cuy (builder & teacher), DonEmch (builder) and Dan Helsper (builder). There are several others, but thoseguys are a good start. I also listen closely to guys like Gary Boothe and RickHolland. Their work speaks for itself.For what it's worth.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
So far I've heard comments ranging from, "That's an absolutely beautiful airplane"to "That prop looks like crap!" Fortunately, most comments have been complimentary.I recently read that chrome spoked wheels on a 1920s airplane makeher look like a "tart." That one made me smile. Fat-Bottomed-Girl is a tart!That's wonderful. That's what I want her to be.I've also been told that I'm remiss for allowing the case nuts to rust on the dreadedcrank-snappin'-valve-eatin'-corvair. I've been called a liar for claimingan initial rate of climb of 700 fpm on a cool morning at sea level with theugly prop. I didn't hit that guy. The guy who commented on some metal workthat was in process, "Not much of a metal worker, are you?" came REAL close togetting smacked. Those of you who know me well know that I'm willing and able,though not likely, to do that:).I've been told that my welds look "cold." There's certainly some precedent toquestion my welding, but that specifically was not the issue.My point? Be careful who you listen to. The guys who have built their planesand have flown them a bunch are probably reliable sources of information. Like Jack said, there are a lot of opinions out there. In the Pietenpol world,I personally seek the advice of people like Jack Phillips (engineer & builder),Hans van der Voort (engineer & builder), Mike Cuy (builder & teacher), DonEmch (builder) and Dan Helsper (builder). There are several others, but thoseguys are a good start. I also listen closely to guys like Gary Boothe and RickHolland. Their work speaks for itself.For what it's worth.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
Gene wrote:>it is important to move weight in relation to the ham sandwich>in my back pocket (when seated in the aircraftSay, Gene... are you gonna eat that sandwich or is it extra?--------Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXAir Camper NX41CCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Gene wrote:>it is important to move weight in relation to the ham sandwich>in my back pocket (when seated in the aircraftSay, Gene... are you gonna eat that sandwich or is it extra?--------Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXAir Camper NX41CCRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: "Ozarkflyer"
Check over on the KR forum. There have been several trim systems made with a salvagedautomobile electric mirror motor. Required installing in the elevatorlike the pictures show, but the users are happy with their performance.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Check over on the KR forum. There have been several trim systems made with a salvagedautomobile electric mirror motor. Required installing in the elevatorlike the pictures show, but the users are happy with their performance.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
You are right Tom... cold is a relative term. Cold to us is teens and 20s overnightwith the occasional single digits, but it makes me want to stay away frommy non insulated hangar. About this time of year I just can't stand it anymore,so I'll add a few layers and find a way to get something done. Property? Sure, lots of it around here. The future job market isn't looking toobad for us either... come on down!--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
You are right Tom... cold is a relative term. Cold to us is teens and 20s overnightwith the occasional single digits, but it makes me want to stay away frommy non insulated hangar. About this time of year I just can't stand it anymore,so I'll add a few layers and find a way to get something done. Property? Sure, lots of it around here. The future job market isn't looking toobad for us either... come on down!--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: "Kringle"
+1 on Kevin's comments. I'm trying my best to keep to myself and build to theplans, but occasionally I am unable to find the answers I need so I ask here.All in all there are good folks here and you'll find out who knows what theyare talking about pretty quick. Kevin... "Liar" and "Not much of a metal worker"? Hmm, I might not make a fisteither, but I would verbally embarrass someone for being so rude. I know, somewould say that I am a hot head, or that I have poor communication skills fordoing such a thing... oh well. For what it's worth, I really dig your airplane. I hope for mine to be very similar.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
+1 on Kevin's comments. I'm trying my best to keep to myself and build to theplans, but occasionally I am unable to find the answers I need so I ask here.All in all there are good folks here and you'll find out who knows what theyare talking about pretty quick. Kevin... "Liar" and "Not much of a metal worker"? Hmm, I might not make a fisteither, but I would verbally embarrass someone for being so rude. I know, somewould say that I am a hot head, or that I have poor communication skills fordoing such a thing... oh well. For what it's worth, I really dig your airplane. I hope for mine to be very similar.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I don't hate Corvair engines. They have their place in aviation. You see, amphibs and floatplanes occasionally need to be secured off shoreand the best way to do that is to sink a heavy and useless object with arope tied to it, that can then be used to secure the airplane. Corvairengines are perfect for this task!Just kidding, of course.Now about this "friend" who told you that T-88 will break down at 110degrees, BE WARY. Every airport has at least one "expert" who has neverbuilt an airplane but knows everything about building one, and is sure topoint out that what you are doing is wrong. The best way to handle them isto keep your head down and keep working, and if they persist, you can sayeither "that turns out not to be the case" or "Bullsh*t", depending on anumber of factors:a) Your mood at the timeb) Whether you care to maintain this idiot as a friendc) Young ladies or children are presentWait till you start covering it with fabric. The smell of dope or PolyBrushseems to draw these folks like a pig pickin' draws flies. And they're allExperts, although they have never covered an airplane. Their "...unclecovered one with Irish Linen, back in '48, and he said you had to...".Don't listen to them. Don't pay attention to half of what you read on thisforum. Read Tony Bingelis, and CAM18 (AC 43.13) and the manufacturer's infoand directions, and make up your own mind. Talk to your local EAA TechnicalCounselor, but vette him first to make sure he actually knows somethingabout wood and fabric airplanes. The EAA is not too particular about theexperience required to become a TC, although they DO require that you musthave built at least one airplane. A good TC will disqualify himself fromquestions where he knows nothing. For example, I'm the TC for our local EAAChapter, and I was recently asked a question regarding carbon fiber layupson a Lancair. I disqualified myself because I simply have no experience orknowledge about composite materials and work. I will be gaining some ofthat when I get to the cabin top and doors on the RV-10 I'm building, butuntil I have worked with it myself, I won't offer an opinion.And before you ask, yes, I have had a Corvair. A 1966 model, with a 110 hpengine and a 4 on the floor. First car I ever wrecked. My Machine Designclass in college used the Corvair as the example of how NOT to design a beltdrive system. The design of that system was consistent with the design ofthe rest of the car. Remember, this car was designed to be Cheap. It wastargeted squarely at the first real threat Detroit felt from foreign cars -a car that also had an air cooled engine mounted in the rear of the car, andsold for a very low price.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
I don't hate Corvair engines. They have their place in aviation. You see, amphibs and floatplanes occasionally need to be secured off shoreand the best way to do that is to sink a heavy and useless object with arope tied to it, that can then be used to secure the airplane. Corvairengines are perfect for this task!Just kidding, of course.Now about this "friend" who told you that T-88 will break down at 110degrees, BE WARY. Every airport has at least one "expert" who has neverbuilt an airplane but knows everything about building one, and is sure topoint out that what you are doing is wrong. The best way to handle them isto keep your head down and keep working, and if they persist, you can sayeither "that turns out not to be the case" or "Bullsh*t", depending on anumber of factors:a) Your mood at the timeb) Whether you care to maintain this idiot as a friendc) Young ladies or children are presentWait till you start covering it with fabric. The smell of dope or PolyBrushseems to draw these folks like a pig pickin' draws flies. And they're allExperts, although they have never covered an airplane. Their "...unclecovered one with Irish Linen, back in '48, and he said you had to...".Don't listen to them. Don't pay attention to half of what you read on thisforum. Read Tony Bingelis, and CAM18 (AC 43.13) and the manufacturer's infoand directions, and make up your own mind. Talk to your local EAA TechnicalCounselor, but vette him first to make sure he actually knows somethingabout wood and fabric airplanes. The EAA is not too particular about theexperience required to become a TC, although they DO require that you musthave built at least one airplane. A good TC will disqualify himself fromquestions where he knows nothing. For example, I'm the TC for our local EAAChapter, and I was recently asked a question regarding carbon fiber layupson a Lancair. I disqualified myself because I simply have no experience orknowledge about composite materials and work. I will be gaining some ofthat when I get to the cabin top and doors on the RV-10 I'm building, butuntil I have worked with it myself, I won't offer an opinion.And before you ask, yes, I have had a Corvair. A 1966 model, with a 110 hpengine and a 4 on the floor. First car I ever wrecked. My Machine Designclass in college used the Corvair as the example of how NOT to design a beltdrive system. The design of that system was consistent with the design ofthe rest of the car. Remember, this car was designed to be Cheap. It wastargeted squarely at the first real threat Detroit felt from foreign cars -a car that also had an air cooled engine mounted in the rear of the car, andsold for a very low price.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: airlion
Jack,Good advice as usual. I'll be visiting your beautiful state for a few days atthe end of this month. A week long get-away in a little place called Brasstown.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:46:42 -0800 (PST)
Jack,Good advice as usual. I'll be visiting your beautiful state for a few days atthe end of this month. A week long get-away in a little place called Brasstown.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 15:46:42 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: "Mild Bill"
Well, Tom,All I can say is it's a good thing you decided to order a set of plans from Don.I have referred to the old FGM reprint from time to time, and the question thatkeeps popping into my head is "How has anyone actually managed to build acomplete working aircraft from just those plans?". First off, they're so smallthat they are hard to see some of the details, but more importantly, there aresome details that aren't even there (like elevator and rudder horns, and wingspar spacing for instance). I haven't studied the differences between the FGMand Improved empennages, but successful aircraft have been built from both.I think the Improved version is an improvement (go figure). The original versionhas an unusual construction, which likely has less resistance to racking, sincethere aren't really any diagonal spars - just capstrips.Having said all that, I do enjoy reading through the old FGM reprints. They arequite entertaining - especially the colorful language. But I do wonder why theydecided to insert more modern photos.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Well, Tom,All I can say is it's a good thing you decided to order a set of plans from Don.I have referred to the old FGM reprint from time to time, and the question thatkeeps popping into my head is "How has anyone actually managed to build acomplete working aircraft from just those plans?". First off, they're so smallthat they are hard to see some of the details, but more importantly, there aresome details that aren't even there (like elevator and rudder horns, and wingspar spacing for instance). I haven't studied the differences between the FGMand Improved empennages, but successful aircraft have been built from both.I think the Improved version is an improvement (go figure). The original versionhas an unusual construction, which likely has less resistance to racking, sincethere aren't really any diagonal spars - just capstrips.Having said all that, I do enjoy reading through the old FGM reprints. They arequite entertaining - especially the colorful language. But I do wonder why theydecided to insert more modern photos.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By: "Chris"
kevinpurtee wrote:> The guy who commented on some metal work that was in process, "Not much of ametal worker, are you?" came REAL close to getting smackedAfter meeting Stanley Hooker in the 1930s, Rolls-Royce chairman Ernest Hives quipped,"Not much of an engineer."Hooker went on to double the horsepower of the Rolls-Royce Merlin and was instrumentalin Britain's early lead in jet engine development. When he wrote his autobiography,he used Hives's remark for the title.--------Bill FrankRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
kevinpurtee wrote:> The guy who commented on some metal work that was in process, "Not much of ametal worker, are you?" came REAL close to getting smackedAfter meeting Stanley Hooker in the 1930s, Rolls-Royce chairman Ernest Hives quipped,"Not much of an engineer."Hooker went on to double the horsepower of the Rolls-Royce Merlin and was instrumentalin Britain's early lead in jet engine development. When he wrote his autobiography,he used Hives's remark for the title.--------Bill FrankRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
> RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ah, opinions...
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted> by: "Jack Phillips" > > I don't hate Corvair engines. They have their place> in aviation. > > You see, amphibs and floatplanes occasionally need to be> secured off shore> and the best way to do that is to sink a heavy and useless> object with a> rope tied to it, that can then be used to secure the> airplane. Corvair> engines are perfect for this task!> > Just kidding, of course.> > Now about this "friend" who told you that T-88 will break> down at 110> degrees, BE WARY. Every airport has at least one> "expert" who has never> built an airplane but knows everything about building one,> and is sure to> point out that what you are doing is wrong. The best> way to handle them is> to keep your head down and keep working, and if they> persist, you can say> either "that turns out not to be the case" or "Bullsh*t",> depending on a> number of factors:> > a) Your mood at the time> b) Whether you care to maintain this idiot as a> friend> c) Young ladies or children are present> > Wait till you start covering it with fabric. The> smell of dope or PolyBrush> seems to draw these folks like a pig pickin' draws> flies. And they're all> Experts, although they have never covered an> airplane. Their "...uncle> covered one with Irish Linen, back in '48, and he said you> had to...".> > Don't listen to them. Don't pay attention to half of> what you read on this> forum. Read Tony Bingelis, and CAM18 (AC 43.13) and> the manufacturer's info> and directions, and make up your own mind. Talk to> your local EAA Technical> Counselor, but vette him first to make sure he actually> knows something> about wood and fabric airplanes. The EAA is not too> particular about the> experience required to become a TC, although they DO> require that you must> have built at least one airplane. A good TC will> disqualify himself from> questions where he knows nothing. For example, I'm> the TC for our local EAA> Chapter, and I was recently asked a question regarding> carbon fiber layups> on a Lancair. I disqualified myself because I simply> have no experience or> knowledge about composite materials and work. I will> be gaining some of> that when I get to the cabin top and doors on the RV-10 I'm> building, but> until I have worked with it myself, I won't offer an> opinion.> > And before you ask, yes, I have had a Corvair. A 1966> model, with a 110 hp> engine and a 4 on the floor. First car I ever> wrecked. My Machine Design> class in college used the Corvair as the example of how NOT> to design a belt> drive system. The design of that system was> consistent with the design of> the rest of the car. Remember, this car was designed> to be Cheap. It was> targeted squarely at the first real threat Detroit felt> from foreign cars -> a car that also had an air cooled engine mounted in the> rear of the car, and> sold for a very low price.> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"> Raleigh, NC> > > > -----Original Message-----
> --> Pietenpol-List message posted> by: "Jack Phillips" > > I don't hate Corvair engines. They have their place> in aviation. > > You see, amphibs and floatplanes occasionally need to be> secured off shore> and the best way to do that is to sink a heavy and useless> object with a> rope tied to it, that can then be used to secure the> airplane. Corvair> engines are perfect for this task!> > Just kidding, of course.> > Now about this "friend" who told you that T-88 will break> down at 110> degrees, BE WARY. Every airport has at least one> "expert" who has never> built an airplane but knows everything about building one,> and is sure to> point out that what you are doing is wrong. The best> way to handle them is> to keep your head down and keep working, and if they> persist, you can say> either "that turns out not to be the case" or "Bullsh*t",> depending on a> number of factors:> > a) Your mood at the time> b) Whether you care to maintain this idiot as a> friend> c) Young ladies or children are present> > Wait till you start covering it with fabric. The> smell of dope or PolyBrush> seems to draw these folks like a pig pickin' draws> flies. And they're all> Experts, although they have never covered an> airplane. Their "...uncle> covered one with Irish Linen, back in '48, and he said you> had to...".> > Don't listen to them. Don't pay attention to half of> what you read on this> forum. Read Tony Bingelis, and CAM18 (AC 43.13) and> the manufacturer's info> and directions, and make up your own mind. Talk to> your local EAA Technical> Counselor, but vette him first to make sure he actually> knows something> about wood and fabric airplanes. The EAA is not too> particular about the> experience required to become a TC, although they DO> require that you must> have built at least one airplane. A good TC will> disqualify himself from> questions where he knows nothing. For example, I'm> the TC for our local EAA> Chapter, and I was recently asked a question regarding> carbon fiber layups> on a Lancair. I disqualified myself because I simply> have no experience or> knowledge about composite materials and work. I will> be gaining some of> that when I get to the cabin top and doors on the RV-10 I'm> building, but> until I have worked with it myself, I won't offer an> opinion.> > And before you ask, yes, I have had a Corvair. A 1966> model, with a 110 hp> engine and a 4 on the floor. First car I ever> wrecked. My Machine Design> class in college used the Corvair as the example of how NOT> to design a belt> drive system. The design of that system was> consistent with the design of> the rest of the car. Remember, this car was designed> to be Cheap. It was> targeted squarely at the first real threat Detroit felt> from foreign cars -> a car that also had an air cooled engine mounted in the> rear of the car, and> sold for a very low price.> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"> Raleigh, NC> > > > -----Original Message-----