Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
I am using the polyfiber varnish combo EV-400 and EV410 catalyst for thefinal pre-cover coating of my tailfeathers. The instructions on the canmention a 30 minute (or 1 hr in humid conditions) wait after mixing for"induction" before application.I then varnished the vert stab, both elevators, the rudder and then thehoriz stab (in that order). All from the same batch.The next day everything but the vert stab was perfect. Three days later theVS is still so tacky your finger will stick to it. All else is just right.The ONLY difference I can think of is that I didn't wait a full 30 mins or 1hr before applying the varnish.Has anyone else seen this before? I'm pretty sure that the reducer thatcame with it will take it off with a little elbow grease, but I find itamazing that there was THAT much difference. What exactly is "inductiontime"? Could it be something else?Thanks, Bert________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success. Thelast coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The only differencefrom other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.Sent from my iPadJack Textor________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success. Thelast coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The only differencefrom other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.Sent from my iPadJack Textor________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: "C N Campbell"
High humidity and too thick of an application. It's purely cosmetic, but next timeeither thin more, or use a fast drying solvent like acetone.GaryNX308MBSent from my iPhoneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:> > I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success.The last coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The only differencefrom other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.> > Sent from my iPad> Jack Textor> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
High humidity and too thick of an application. It's purely cosmetic, but next timeeither thin more, or use a fast drying solvent like acetone.GaryNX308MBSent from my iPhoneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:> > I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success.The last coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The only differencefrom other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.> > Sent from my iPad> Jack Textor> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: "Jack"
Jack, I'm certainly not an expert but the foggy look might come from moisture. Chuck----- Original Message -----
Jack, I'm certainly not an expert but the foggy look might come from moisture. Chuck----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
Have never tried acetone, 10 % work with it too?Sent from my iPadJack TextorOn Dec 9, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > High humidity and too thick of an application. It's purely cosmetic, but nexttime either thin more, or use a fast drying solvent like acetone.> > Gary> NX308MB> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:> >> >> I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success.The last coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The only differencefrom other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.>> >> Sent from my iPad>> Jack Textor> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Have never tried acetone, 10 % work with it too?Sent from my iPadJack TextorOn Dec 9, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > High humidity and too thick of an application. It's purely cosmetic, but nexttime either thin more, or use a fast drying solvent like acetone.> > Gary> NX308MB> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:> >> >> I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success.The last coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The only differencefrom other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.>> >> Sent from my iPad>> Jack Textor> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Original Posted By:
Sure. Solvent amounts would be the same, just that some dry quicker. In summeryou might drop back to thinner. BTW - without sanding the cloudy varnish off,there is nothing to be done for it.GarySent from my iPhoneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Jack wrote:> > Have never tried acetone, 10 % work with it too?> > Sent from my iPad> Jack Textor> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:> >> >> High humidity and too thick of an application. It's purely cosmetic, but nexttime either thin more, or use a fast drying solvent like acetone.>> >> Gary>> NX308MB>> >> Sent from my iPhone>> >> On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:>> >>> >>> I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success.The last coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The onlydifference from other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.>>> >>> Sent from my iPad>>> Jack Textor> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Sure. Solvent amounts would be the same, just that some dry quicker. In summeryou might drop back to thinner. BTW - without sanding the cloudy varnish off,there is nothing to be done for it.GarySent from my iPhoneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Jack wrote:> > Have never tried acetone, 10 % work with it too?> > Sent from my iPad> Jack Textor> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:> >> >> High humidity and too thick of an application. It's purely cosmetic, but nexttime either thin more, or use a fast drying solvent like acetone.>> >> Gary>> NX308MB>> >> Sent from my iPhone>> >> On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:>> >>> >>> I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success.The last coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The onlydifference from other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.>>> >>> Sent from my iPad>>> Jack Textor> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
I think you mean a slow drying thinner so the water can get away before the paint drys it called blushing a painters night mear-----Original Message-----
I think you mean a slow drying thinner so the water can get away before the paint drys it called blushing a painters night mear-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: Jack
The matter of condensation on the underside of your metal hangar roof should not be taken too lightly. When I was making repairs to my fuselage after the nose-over=2C the wings remained stored in a hangar in Zapata=2C TX and were there for many months. The underside of the hangar roof was somewhat corroded=2C so the condensation dripping down from the roof was not just clear "dew". The upper surfaces of Scout's wings bear permanently discolored stains from the drips (along with some bat droppings).Oscar ZunigaMedford=2C ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
The matter of condensation on the underside of your metal hangar roof should not be taken too lightly. When I was making repairs to my fuselage after the nose-over=2C the wings remained stored in a hangar in Zapata=2C TX and were there for many months. The underside of the hangar roof was somewhat corroded=2C so the condensation dripping down from the roof was not just clear "dew". The upper surfaces of Scout's wings bear permanently discolored stains from the drips (along with some bat droppings).Oscar ZunigaMedford=2C ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 power ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: "tools"
Oh good more sanding!Sent from my iPadJack TextorOn Dec 9, 2012, at 12:05 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > Sure. Solvent amounts would be the same, just that some dry quicker. In summeryou might drop back to thinner. BTW - without sanding the cloudy varnish off,there is nothing to be done for it.> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Jack wrote:> >> >> Have never tried acetone, 10 % work with it too?>> >> Sent from my iPad>> Jack Textor>> >> On Dec 9, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:>> >>> >>> High humidity and too thick of an application. It's purely cosmetic, but nexttime either thin more, or use a fast drying solvent like acetone.>>> >>> Gary>>> NX308MB>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone>>> >>> On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:>>> >>>> >>>> I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success.The last coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The onlydifference from other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.>>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad>>>> Jack Textor> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Oh good more sanding!Sent from my iPadJack TextorOn Dec 9, 2012, at 12:05 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > Sure. Solvent amounts would be the same, just that some dry quicker. In summeryou might drop back to thinner. BTW - without sanding the cloudy varnish off,there is nothing to be done for it.> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:56 AM, Jack wrote:> >> >> Have never tried acetone, 10 % work with it too?>> >> Sent from my iPad>> Jack Textor>> >> On Dec 9, 2012, at 11:28 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:>> >>> >>> High humidity and too thick of an application. It's purely cosmetic, but nexttime either thin more, or use a fast drying solvent like acetone.>>> >>> Gary>>> NX308MB>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone>>> >>> On Dec 9, 2012, at 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:>>> >>>> >>>> I have been spraying some interior parts, thinned 10% with very good success.The last coat sprayed yesterday has a fog look under the surface. The onlydifference from other times were, A bit cooler, 60 degrees and a new can of varnish.Any ideas? The new can of varnish looks clear.>>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad>>>> Jack Textor> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
I think Don is right, if you're finish is blushing, you want to use a retardant.A fast drying thinner tends to cool more (latent heat of vaporization), whichcauses the condensation that shows up as that foggy milky appearance.On finishes you can redissolve (lacquers, dope, etc) you can eliminate it sometimeson subsequent applications, but on varnish, it's there to stay unless removedabrasively.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
I think Don is right, if you're finish is blushing, you want to use a retardant.A fast drying thinner tends to cool more (latent heat of vaporization), whichcauses the condensation that shows up as that foggy milky appearance.On finishes you can redissolve (lacquers, dope, etc) you can eliminate it sometimeson subsequent applications, but on varnish, it's there to stay unless removedabrasively.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
This is not a physics problem...it's a chemistry problem! If the varnish is toosoft (un-dried) as it comes into contact with excessive moisture, the surfacecuring agents react negatively with the moisture. In cool and/or humid conditions,it's important to speed up the cure, by using fast drying thinners. GarySent from my iPhoneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 11:27 AM, "tools" wrote:> > I think Don is right, if you're finish is blushing, you want to use a retardant.A fast drying thinner tends to cool more (latent heat of vaporization), whichcauses the condensation that shows up as that foggy milky appearance.> > On finishes you can redissolve (lacquers, dope, etc) you can eliminate it sometimeson subsequent applications, but on varnish, it's there to stay unless removedabrasively.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 105#390105> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
This is not a physics problem...it's a chemistry problem! If the varnish is toosoft (un-dried) as it comes into contact with excessive moisture, the surfacecuring agents react negatively with the moisture. In cool and/or humid conditions,it's important to speed up the cure, by using fast drying thinners. GarySent from my iPhoneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 11:27 AM, "tools" wrote:> > I think Don is right, if you're finish is blushing, you want to use a retardant.A fast drying thinner tends to cool more (latent heat of vaporization), whichcauses the condensation that shows up as that foggy milky appearance.> > On finishes you can redissolve (lacquers, dope, etc) you can eliminate it sometimeson subsequent applications, but on varnish, it's there to stay unless removedabrasively.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 105#390105> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By:
C'mon Gary, blushing is blushing. Fast evaporation lowers the temperature to thedew point and moisture draws out of atmosphere. Best way to avoid is wait fora better day, followed by raise the temperature or slow the evaporation. GeneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > This is not a physics problem...it's a chemistry problem! If the varnish is toosoft (un-dried) as it comes into contact with excessive moisture, the surfacecuring agents react negatively with the moisture. In cool and/or humid conditions,it's important to speed up the cure, by using fast drying thinners. > > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 11:27 AM, "tools" wrote:> >> >> I think Don is right, if you're finish is blushing, you want to use a retardant.A fast drying thinner tends to cool more (latent heat of vaporization),which causes the condensation that shows up as that foggy milky appearance.>> >> On finishes you can redissolve (lacquers, dope, etc) you can eliminate it sometimeson subsequent applications, but on varnish, it's there to stay unlessremoved abrasively.>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 105#390105> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
C'mon Gary, blushing is blushing. Fast evaporation lowers the temperature to thedew point and moisture draws out of atmosphere. Best way to avoid is wait fora better day, followed by raise the temperature or slow the evaporation. GeneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > This is not a physics problem...it's a chemistry problem! If the varnish is toosoft (un-dried) as it comes into contact with excessive moisture, the surfacecuring agents react negatively with the moisture. In cool and/or humid conditions,it's important to speed up the cure, by using fast drying thinners. > > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 11:27 AM, "tools" wrote:> >> >> I think Don is right, if you're finish is blushing, you want to use a retardant.A fast drying thinner tends to cool more (latent heat of vaporization),which causes the condensation that shows up as that foggy milky appearance.>> >> On finishes you can redissolve (lacquers, dope, etc) you can eliminate it sometimeson subsequent applications, but on varnish, it's there to stay unlessremoved abrasively.>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 105#390105> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: tools
Sorry dont want to get anybodys jammies in a knot! But when I rebuilt my t-craft I got blushin and the paint man at where I bnought my paint said use RETARDENT thinner I wound up using almost 50 % till it worked-----Original Message-----
Sorry dont want to get anybodys jammies in a knot! But when I rebuilt my t-craft I got blushin and the paint man at where I bnought my paint said use RETARDENT thinner I wound up using almost 50 % till it worked-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By:> -----Original Message----- tools
I stand corrected. Coming from California, humidity is something we read about.Still, when painting my cowling last spring, and dealing with paint issues, Iwas advised to use a slower thinner on warm days...solved my issues.GarySent from my iPhoneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 1:09 PM, wrote:> > Sorry dont want to get anybodys jammies in a knot! But when I rebuilt my t-craftI got blushin and the paint man at where I bnought my paint said use RETARDENTthinner I wound up using almost 50 % till it worked>
I stand corrected. Coming from California, humidity is something we read about.Still, when painting my cowling last spring, and dealing with paint issues, Iwas advised to use a slower thinner on warm days...solved my issues.GarySent from my iPhoneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 1:09 PM, wrote:> > Sorry dont want to get anybodys jammies in a knot! But when I rebuilt my t-craftI got blushin and the paint man at where I bnought my paint said use RETARDENTthinner I wound up using almost 50 % till it worked>
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
Pietenpolers,Yesterday, Don Harpers new Pietenpol went for it's first flight. After two circuits of the airport, several of the engine instruments were not reading correctly, the plane was landed and the problems will be corrected before the next flight. More information to follow as flight testing continues.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Pietenpolers,Yesterday, Don Harpers new Pietenpol went for it's first flight. After two circuits of the airport, several of the engine instruments were not reading correctly, the plane was landed and the problems will be corrected before the next flight. More information to follow as flight testing continues.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By:>> -----Original Message----- tools
That's right Gary....slower thinner. :)GeneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > I stand corrected. Coming from California, humidity is something we read about.Still, when painting my cowling last spring, and dealing with paint issues,I was advised to use a slower thinner on warm days...solved my issues.> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 1:09 PM, wrote:> >> >> Sorry dont want to get anybodys jammies in a knot! But when I rebuilt my t-craftI got blushin and the paint man at where I bnought my paint said use RETARDENTthinner I wound up using almost 50 % till it worked>>
That's right Gary....slower thinner. :)GeneOn Dec 9, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > I stand corrected. Coming from California, humidity is something we read about.Still, when painting my cowling last spring, and dealing with paint issues,I was advised to use a slower thinner on warm days...solved my issues.> > Gary> > Sent from my iPhone> > On Dec 9, 2012, at 1:09 PM, wrote:> >> >> Sorry dont want to get anybodys jammies in a knot! But when I rebuilt my t-craftI got blushin and the paint man at where I bnought my paint said use RETARDENTthinner I wound up using almost 50 % till it worked>>
Re: Pietenpol-List: First flight of Don Harpers new Pietenpol
Original Posted By: Barnwell Regional Airport
NICE! Congratulations to Don. Can't wait to hear the head-to-head results with P.F.'s machine.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
NICE! Congratulations to Don. Can't wait to hear the head-to-head results with P.F.'s machine.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: First flight of Don Harpers new Pietenpol
Original Posted By: Gardiner
Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Attached are a couple pictures of our finished tail wheel. Originally I boughta Matco wheel because dad and I both wanted to have a steerable tail wheel thatalso has a break free mechanism, but we also wanted more to go with the originaldesign. I returned the Matco and we purchased an RV setup from Vans fora reasonable 140.00. After a few small modifications we now have what we seeas the best of both worlds. A steerable tail wheel with a break free mechanismthat is built from the plans. It is a very simple modification (I am speakingfor my father because he "designed the modification" if that makes sense, whileI was and still am busy with the birth of my son). Anyway if anybody is interestedin this idea we have part numbers from Vans and Dad made a drawings ofthe modifications that need to be made.P.S. Has anybody heard from Chris Tracy? We have been trying to reach him to seeif he would want to post our pictures to his website?--------Fred KimPittsburgh, PaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Attached are a couple pictures of our finished tail wheel. Originally I boughta Matco wheel because dad and I both wanted to have a steerable tail wheel thatalso has a break free mechanism, but we also wanted more to go with the originaldesign. I returned the Matco and we purchased an RV setup from Vans fora reasonable 140.00. After a few small modifications we now have what we seeas the best of both worlds. A steerable tail wheel with a break free mechanismthat is built from the plans. It is a very simple modification (I am speakingfor my father because he "designed the modification" if that makes sense, whileI was and still am busy with the birth of my son). Anyway if anybody is interestedin this idea we have part numbers from Vans and Dad made a drawings ofthe modifications that need to be made.P.S. Has anybody heard from Chris Tracy? We have been trying to reach him to seeif he would want to post our pictures to his website?--------Fred KimPittsburgh, PaRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: Rick Schreiber
Gene is right on. You can get it whether it is cool or hot. The closer the temperatureis to the dewpoint, the quicker it will blush. It's when the temperatureand dewpoint spread is close together when you get the most trouble. Ifthe temperature was 60 degrees and you got it, most likely the dewpoint was notfar below. If you could heat it up in the room it would be better. Therehave been days where I've tried to paint and it was a great temperature, maybemid seventies, and I got blushing. If I heated my shop into the 90's I couldget away from the blushing.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 19:41:53 -0600
Gene is right on. You can get it whether it is cool or hot. The closer the temperatureis to the dewpoint, the quicker it will blush. It's when the temperatureand dewpoint spread is close together when you get the most trouble. Ifthe temperature was 60 degrees and you got it, most likely the dewpoint was notfar below. If you could heat it up in the room it would be better. Therehave been days where I've tried to paint and it was a great temperature, maybemid seventies, and I got blushing. If I heated my shop into the 90's I couldget away from the blushing.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 19:41:53 -0600
RE: Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thanks to all for all the comments! It looks like there are many variablesthat can cause blushing (I learned a new word). I'm using a HVLP sprayer andthinned with naphtha. It did take awhile for the blushing to appear whichmade it extra frustrating. About the time I finished it started to show.Winter arrived, it's 16 degrees so I may have to delay spraying in thegarage, or find a better way to heat it up. Thanks again! Jack Textor-----Original Message-----
Thanks to all for all the comments! It looks like there are many variablesthat can cause blushing (I learned a new word). I'm using a HVLP sprayer andthinned with naphtha. It did take awhile for the blushing to appear whichmade it extra frustrating. About the time I finished it started to show.Winter arrived, it's 16 degrees so I may have to delay spraying in thegarage, or find a better way to heat it up. Thanks again! Jack Textor-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Varnish Question
Original Posted By: Andre Abreu