Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB"
My test pilot asked me what the maximum cross wind component is for a Pietenpol.I had no idea, can anyone help out with this?Thanks, Rod Wooller________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Cross wind component
Pietenpol-List: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: Rod Wooller
This afternoon, Tyler an I were driving home from the gun range and we were nearthe Skiatook airport in Skiatook, Oklahoma. Suddenly, a red and white Air Campercomes climbing over the tree tops. I recognized it as my friend and fellowEAA 10 member, Ken Gates... so we boogie over to the airport to take a fewphotos. Ken gave me a little background on the airplane and I thought some ofyou might be able to tell us a bit more about it or the builder... especiallyyou fellas from Ohio. The builder was a fellow by the name of Marvin Groutof New Carlisle, Ohio. A/W date was 10/22/99. I don't know Marvin, but someof you may like to know that it is still flying, and has a really nice runningCorvair. Ken has it listed for sale, but told me today that he may be havingsecond thoughts. I tried to post this to the Pietenpol group on Facebook, but for some reason itwould not allow me to post once I uploaded an image... anyone have an idea whythat might be?--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing GearRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... ______Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:49:17 +1300Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cross wind component
This afternoon, Tyler an I were driving home from the gun range and we were nearthe Skiatook airport in Skiatook, Oklahoma. Suddenly, a red and white Air Campercomes climbing over the tree tops. I recognized it as my friend and fellowEAA 10 member, Ken Gates... so we boogie over to the airport to take a fewphotos. Ken gave me a little background on the airplane and I thought some ofyou might be able to tell us a bit more about it or the builder... especiallyyou fellas from Ohio. The builder was a fellow by the name of Marvin Groutof New Carlisle, Ohio. A/W date was 10/22/99. I don't know Marvin, but someof you may like to know that it is still flying, and has a really nice runningCorvair. Ken has it listed for sale, but told me today that he may be havingsecond thoughts. I tried to post this to the Pietenpol group on Facebook, but for some reason itwould not allow me to post once I uploaded an image... anyone have an idea whythat might be?--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing GearRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... ______Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 17:49:17 +1300Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cross wind component
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
I have that issue. Send me an email and I'll get you a copy of the last article.Craig--------A goal without a plan is nothing more than a wish. -- orionRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
I have that issue. Send me an email and I'll get you a copy of the last article.Craig--------A goal without a plan is nothing more than a wish. -- orionRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: steve emo
I've never had anything near a 25-30 MPH crosswind component while landing or takingoff in Scout, but I've had half that and my experience has been that youwill run out of rudder in anything much more than that.Some of the folks on this list with a lot of hours in Piets will have much moreto say about it though. Then there's Raymond Hanover, who flies in the TexasPanhandle, where their clothing dries horizontally on the clothesline. Maybehe'll chime in.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:10:35 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
I've never had anything near a 25-30 MPH crosswind component while landing or takingoff in Scout, but I've had half that and my experience has been that youwill run out of rudder in anything much more than that.Some of the folks on this list with a lot of hours in Piets will have much moreto say about it though. Then there's Raymond Hanover, who flies in the TexasPanhandle, where their clothing dries horizontally on the clothesline. Maybehe'll chime in.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:10:35 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: jarheadpilot82
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind componentRecent discussion on a "Real" (read certified) airplane list came to the consensusthat a test flight should never include a passenger that is not involved inthe test flight. Being involved means either being a safety pilot or doing something specific. Safety pilots either look for other planes or makes sure the shiny side staysup while the pilot looks at instruments, gauges, some airplane part (Aleron ortailfeathers) or performs a specific maneuver. Also a mechainic or fellow pilotcan go along to help observe something. Taking someone on a test flight, should not be done lightly. The last thing youneed in a plane being tested is to have to deal with someone doing something"crazy" like grabbing the controls and freezing or undoing the seatbelt and standingup to tell you there is a problem. More than likely they will simply bea distraction. Something to think about. Blue Skies,Steve D ----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind componentRecent discussion on a "Real" (read certified) airplane list came to the consensusthat a test flight should never include a passenger that is not involved inthe test flight. Being involved means either being a safety pilot or doing something specific. Safety pilots either look for other planes or makes sure the shiny side staysup while the pilot looks at instruments, gauges, some airplane part (Aleron ortailfeathers) or performs a specific maneuver. Also a mechainic or fellow pilotcan go along to help observe something. Taking someone on a test flight, should not be done lightly. The last thing youneed in a plane being tested is to have to deal with someone doing something"crazy" like grabbing the controls and freezing or undoing the seatbelt and standingup to tell you there is a problem. More than likely they will simply bea distraction. Something to think about. Blue Skies,Steve D ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: Gerry Holland
Wheel landings/paved rwys: 25kts max 90 deg x-wind... w/light taps on downwindheel brake when she starts to weathervane...or..15kts max x-wind on paved rwys(w/out the assistance of downwind brake). Otherwise, just landing on grass seemseasiest. More than 25kts x-wind, it's best to just hit the cafe.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Wheel landings/paved rwys: 25kts max 90 deg x-wind... w/light taps on downwindheel brake when she starts to weathervane...or..15kts max x-wind on paved rwys(w/out the assistance of downwind brake). Otherwise, just landing on grass seemseasiest. More than 25kts x-wind, it's best to just hit the cafe.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: "Robert Gow"
Some pretty impressive figures regarding crosswind limits in Pietenpol at 25 knotsat 90 degrees.Just to put things out of prospective!Depending on Manufacturers or Operator Procedures, the cross wind limits are around30/35 knots on dry surface for Airline operations.Wet can be 25/30 knots. That's a generic range for say 747-400 or Airbus 330/340.15 knots steady, 10 knots gusting is more than enough for me in a Parasol aircraftwhich in all probability is marginal on power at the best of times.IMHO.Gerry________________________________________________________________________________
Some pretty impressive figures regarding crosswind limits in Pietenpol at 25 knotsat 90 degrees.Just to put things out of prospective!Depending on Manufacturers or Operator Procedures, the cross wind limits are around30/35 knots on dry surface for Airline operations.Wet can be 25/30 knots. That's a generic range for say 747-400 or Airbus 330/340.15 knots steady, 10 knots gusting is more than enough for me in a Parasol aircraftwhich in all probability is marginal on power at the best of times.IMHO.Gerry________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
When I was on game I used to land my Tcraft in fairly high crosswinds(like >20). Would not try it now.-----Original Message-----
When I was on game I used to land my Tcraft in fairly high crosswinds(like >20). Would not try it now.-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
et>I don't understand why you would say that, Oscar.- I've had a few occasionswhere I've flown my Pietenpol in 25 knot crosswinds or better.- The trip toBrodhead in 2010 comes to mind, when Randy Bush and I flew up together fromwest Tennessee - he in his Corvair powered ship, and me in N502R, which Iwas ferrying up to Brodhead for Ryan Mueller.- We were making a stop at aduster field in Pontiac, Illinois, and the winds were just howling straightacross the single runway.- While it did induce a good case ofsphincter-clinch, it was no problem for either Randy or me.I have never run out of rudder in a Pietenpol.- It has the strongest rudderof any plane I've ever flown.- Run out of aileron?- Yes.- Run out of rudder?I've never had it happen.In general, I find landing in strong crosswinds easier than taxiing in them.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
et>I don't understand why you would say that, Oscar.- I've had a few occasionswhere I've flown my Pietenpol in 25 knot crosswinds or better.- The trip toBrodhead in 2010 comes to mind, when Randy Bush and I flew up together fromwest Tennessee - he in his Corvair powered ship, and me in N502R, which Iwas ferrying up to Brodhead for Ryan Mueller.- We were making a stop at aduster field in Pontiac, Illinois, and the winds were just howling straightacross the single runway.- While it did induce a good case ofsphincter-clinch, it was no problem for either Randy or me.I have never run out of rudder in a Pietenpol.- It has the strongest rudderof any plane I've ever flown.- Run out of aileron?- Yes.- Run out of rudder?I've never had it happen.In general, I find landing in strong crosswinds easier than taxiing in them.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I don't understand why you would say that, Oscar. I've had a few occasionswhere I've flown my Pietenpol in 25 knot crosswinds or better. The trip toBrodhead in 2010 comes to mind, when Randy Bush and I flew up together fromwest Tennessee - he in his Corvair powered ship, and me in N502R, which Iwas ferrying up to Brodhead for Ryan Mueller. We were making a stop at aduster field in Pontiac, Illinois, and the winds were just howling straightacross the single runway. While it did induce a good case ofsphincter-clinch, it was no problem for either Randy or me.I have never run out of rudder in a Pietenpol. It has the strongest rudderof any plane I've ever flown. Run out of aileron? Yes. Run out of rudder?I've never had it happen.In general, I find landing in strong crosswinds easier than taxiing in them.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
I don't understand why you would say that, Oscar. I've had a few occasionswhere I've flown my Pietenpol in 25 knot crosswinds or better. The trip toBrodhead in 2010 comes to mind, when Randy Bush and I flew up together fromwest Tennessee - he in his Corvair powered ship, and me in N502R, which Iwas ferrying up to Brodhead for Ryan Mueller. We were making a stop at aduster field in Pontiac, Illinois, and the winds were just howling straightacross the single runway. While it did induce a good case ofsphincter-clinch, it was no problem for either Randy or me.I have never run out of rudder in a Pietenpol. It has the strongest rudderof any plane I've ever flown. Run out of aileron? Yes. Run out of rudder?I've never had it happen.In general, I find landing in strong crosswinds easier than taxiing in them.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
I agree w/last two posts. Spot on. I got "caught" coming back to home airfeld w/25ktsdirect x-wind (sans gusts) and it gets your attention on downwind(and thenon final) when you see the crab angle required. I was quite surprised at howwell it handled troughout landing/rollout. I just bugged it up 10 on final,de-crabbed last 10 feet, Hoovered it on the upwind wheel, and as the downwindwheel touched..."tap".."tap" on downwind heel brake to counter the weathervaneinto wind....seemed to work ok (GN-1/A65). I was about to go try it again, butthought it best not to press my good fortune..15 plus Knots and "gusting" ... I'd rather take the 25 Knotter w/out the gusts.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I agree w/last two posts. Spot on. I got "caught" coming back to home airfeld w/25ktsdirect x-wind (sans gusts) and it gets your attention on downwind(and thenon final) when you see the crab angle required. I was quite surprised at howwell it handled troughout landing/rollout. I just bugged it up 10 on final,de-crabbed last 10 feet, Hoovered it on the upwind wheel, and as the downwindwheel touched..."tap".."tap" on downwind heel brake to counter the weathervaneinto wind....seemed to work ok (GN-1/A65). I was about to go try it again, butthought it best not to press my good fortune..15 plus Knots and "gusting" ... I'd rather take the 25 Knotter w/out the gusts.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Well, I have never flown a Piet but I don't believe it would be all that different from a Cub or T-craft or any such. I have always used and taught (when I was instructing in the Navy as well as civilian) the "wing down" crosswind technique. You're really just slipping into the wind with no sudden change at the bottom just before touchdown. Basically, keep the airplane over the 'centerline' with the ailerons and the airplane lined up with the centerline with the rudder ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND. C----- Original Message -----
Well, I have never flown a Piet but I don't believe it would be all that different from a Cub or T-craft or any such. I have always used and taught (when I was instructing in the Navy as well as civilian) the "wing down" crosswind technique. You're really just slipping into the wind with no sudden change at the bottom just before touchdown. Basically, keep the airplane over the 'centerline' with the ailerons and the airplane lined up with the centerline with the rudder ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND. C----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: chicken and ribs> > The quote that I've seen is "Simplicate and add lightness", and is attributedto William Stout, designer of the Ford Trimotor.> > >From Wikipedia (so it must be true
):> > Stout is remembered for his Farberistic engineering credo, "Simplicate and addmore lightness." This would later become best known as the adopted > maxim of Colin Chapman of Lotus Cars. It actually originated with > Stout's designer Gordon Hooton.> > In the spirit of the quote, "simplicate" makes more sense than > "simplificate", if for no reason other than it has one syllable less.> > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 107#393107> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: chicken and ribs> > The quote that I've seen is "Simplicate and add lightness", and is attributedto William Stout, designer of the Ford Trimotor.> > >From Wikipedia (so it must be true
):> > Stout is remembered for his Farberistic engineering credo, "Simplicate and addmore lightness." This would later become best known as the adopted > maxim of Colin Chapman of Lotus Cars. It actually originated with > Stout's designer Gordon Hooton.> > In the spirit of the quote, "simplicate" makes more sense than > "simplificate", if for no reason other than it has one syllable less.> > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 107#393107> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind componentPietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Otherwise it looks like, once again, that old Pietenpol fellow really knew what he was doing when he designed this airplane.Was never drawn to the siren's song of changing the airfoil shape on the Piet. Especially because all the so-called advantages were strictly theoretical (except for one man's anecdotal experience). After all, I was building a PIETENPOL (caps intended). Why do we always try to make it "a little better"? (I myself am guilty of this, at a very low level of course). This is such a major change in my opinion. The bad thing about using the Riblett, is that when all is said and done there will always and forever be that nagging voice in the back of your mind that wants to know if it really would have been "better"..... left the way it was :O). There are some changes to the design that are incorporated by individuals that have practical reasons. A three-piece wing is easier to transport and fit into a shop......4130 is more readily available......wing struts of the original type cannot be obtained.....seat belts will keep you from dying. But changing the basic airfoil shape seems maybe, one step too many. If the Riblett is OK, then why not a J-3 wing? Why not landing gear from a Cub? And that may lead to the dreaded............GN-1!!!!!!Dan HelsperPuryear, TN (dodging flames)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Otherwise it looks like, once again, that old Pietenpol fellow really knew what he was doing when he designed this airplane.Was never drawn to the siren's song of changing the airfoil shape on the Piet. Especially because all the so-called advantages were strictly theoretical (except for one man's anecdotal experience). After all, I was building a PIETENPOL (caps intended). Why do we always try to make it "a little better"? (I myself am guilty of this, at a very low level of course). This is such a major change in my opinion. The bad thing about using the Riblett, is that when all is said and done there will always and forever be that nagging voice in the back of your mind that wants to know if it really would have been "better"..... left the way it was :O). There are some changes to the design that are incorporated by individuals that have practical reasons. A three-piece wing is easier to transport and fit into a shop......4130 is more readily available......wing struts of the original type cannot be obtained.....seat belts will keep you from dying. But changing the basic airfoil shape seems maybe, one step too many. If the Riblett is OK, then why not a J-3 wing? Why not landing gear from a Cub? And that may lead to the dreaded............GN-1!!!!!!Dan HelsperPuryear, TN (dodging flames)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
shad...I heard a lot of them later went to fluxjet...feel free to Prime Ministerme if you want to toss a few names around. I know the ones that were there in80's/early 90's...LerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
shad...I heard a lot of them later went to fluxjet...feel free to Prime Ministerme if you want to toss a few names around. I know the ones that were there in80's/early 90's...LerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cross wind component
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Since the string was deleted, I have absolutely no clue what this comment isabout...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Since the string was deleted, I have absolutely no clue what this comment isabout...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----