Original Posted By: Gerry Holland
Hey Chris:Would you like some help with West Coast Piet on uploading/etc? Got a bit of webpublishing experience, so if you want, contact me off line. Would love to helpyou if needed,Also, I hope to see you again at the West Coast Gathering in June at Frazier Lake...You gonna be busy again this year? Only saw you the first time I went whichwas the first Frazier lake event.Mark RobertsFresno, CARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Pietenpol-List: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Hi.I'm looking for advice regarding ceramic coating of exhaust manifolds on a ContinentalA65/A75 Engine.In truth it's a cosmetic consideration but does seem to have advantages.Any advice gratefully received.Information here: http://www.zircotec.com/page/-_primary_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Hi.I'm looking for advice regarding ceramic coating of exhaust manifolds on a ContinentalA65/A75 Engine.In truth it's a cosmetic consideration but does seem to have advantages.Any advice gratefully received.Information here: http://www.zircotec.com/page/-_primary_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Gerry;That product looks suitable but I have no experience with it. I have seen Jet-Hot and Turbo-X mentioned in other aviation discussions... Jet-Hot is here: http://www.jet-hot.com/ and Turbo-X is available from Techline Coatings, http://www.techlinecoatings.com/ and also possibly through Aircraft Spruce. The stacks on my Continental are just bare stainless steel.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Gerry;That product looks suitable but I have no experience with it. I have seen Jet-Hot and Turbo-X mentioned in other aviation discussions... Jet-Hot is here: http://www.jet-hot.com/ and Turbo-X is available from Techline Coatings, http://www.techlinecoatings.com/ and also possibly through Aircraft Spruce. The stacks on my Continental are just bare stainless steel.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Original Posted By: santiago morete
I forgot to mention that you can see how Mark Langford applied Turbo-X to his exhauststacks (Corvair) on his website, here:http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/exhaust/--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 07:19:11 -0700 (PDT)
I forgot to mention that you can see how Mark Langford applied Turbo-X to his exhauststacks (Corvair) on his website, here:http://www.n56ml.com/corvair/exhaust/--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 07:19:11 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Project update
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on the top curmudegon For those of you who know Larry Williams-of possible interest. From his FB page.* Lawrence V. WilliamsEveryone can relax now. It was only a little heart attack (?) with minimal damage and the prog is for mending to continue to nearly 100%. Thankful and lucky for fast-acting friends and small miracles along the way. Planning on going back home early next week for R&R.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Subject: Pietenpol-List: update on the top curmudegon For those of you who know Larry Williams-of possible interest. From his FB page.* Lawrence V. WilliamsEveryone can relax now. It was only a little heart attack (?) with minimal damage and the prog is for mending to continue to nearly 100%. Thankful and lucky for fast-acting friends and small miracles along the way. Planning on going back home early next week for R&R.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
I had my 4130 steel exhaust stacks chrome plated. I was told later that this is a no-no and it will crack. Can't remember the exact reasoning now. Please chime-in and refresh my memory if anybody knows. So far they are OK with maybe 60-70 hours.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
I had my 4130 steel exhaust stacks chrome plated. I was told later that this is a no-no and it will crack. Can't remember the exact reasoning now. Please chime-in and refresh my memory if anybody knows. So far they are OK with maybe 60-70 hours.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Original Posted By:> Michael Perez
Wow Dan that's dangerous. I will give you $15 for them if you pay for shipping...Sent from my iPadJack TextorOn Mar 18, 2013, at 11:24 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> I had my 4130 steel exhaust stacks chrome plated. I was told later that this is a no-no and it will crack. Can't remember the exact reasoning now. Please chime-in and refresh my memory if anybody knows. So far they are OK with maybe 60-70 hours.> > Dan Helsper> Puryear, TN> > > -----Original Message-----
Wow Dan that's dangerous. I will give you $15 for them if you pay for shipping...Sent from my iPadJack TextorOn Mar 18, 2013, at 11:24 AM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> I had my 4130 steel exhaust stacks chrome plated. I was told later that this is a no-no and it will crack. Can't remember the exact reasoning now. Please chime-in and refresh my memory if anybody knows. So far they are OK with maybe 60-70 hours.> > Dan Helsper> Puryear, TN> > > -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Coating Exhaust Manifold.
Original Posted By:> Michael Perez
Dan,This is from the National Metal Finishing Resource Center (http://www.nmfrc.org/crarchive/apr09c.cfm)The general synopsis is that hydrogen embrittlement is possible, but the ill effects (reduction of ductility) can be minimized by heating following the application of chrome."Hydrogen Embrittlement of Decorative Chrome on ChromolyQ. Is hydrogen embrittlement still a concern if 4130 chromoly steel is copper plated then nickle plated, then chrome plated? I'm building a helicopter and I want the steel to look nice without compromising it's strength. My parts are sitting at the plating shop but I'm having second thoughts...A. I'm not qualified to advise you about your subject parts and a multi-coating of copper-nickel-chrome on aircraft parts, but I can tell you what is considered standard practice when it comes to the subject of hydrogen embrittlement.One of the most important properties of metals is ductility. This is defined as the ability of the metal to deform under stress. Hydrogen embrittlement can cause metals to become brittle and inhibit its ability to deform or stretch. Baking after plating is a method of driving out the hydrogen and stress relieving the metal.Just as important as knowing the type of metal alloy (in your case 4130), is to know the hardness of that material and the "tensile strength". These values are necessary in order to establish the need for baking and if so, for how long and what temperature.Hardness is defined as the hardness value of the metal as obtained by a heat treatment, presumably based on a hardness test value in Rockwell, Vickers, Knoop or Brinnel. "Tensile strength" in thousands of pounds per square inch is usually determined by sustained load testing of parts or samples made from the same material or heat treat lot and that of the actual aircraft parts. Tensile strength directly correlates to part hardness.Once you have confirmed the type, hardness and tensile strength of your components, you can determine if a bake is required after plating to remove hydrogen and therefore reduce the affects of hydrogen embrittlementGeneral rule of thumb is to bake within 2 hours of removal from plating tank, in a certified oven, temperature range 375 - 400 degrees Fahrenheit, bake cycle times that range between 3 and 24 hours, depending on the "heat treatment" or "tensile strength" of the part(s). Charts are available.If metal parts are below 180 KSI (180,000 PSI) tensile strength or a hardness of 40 Rockwell "C" or less, baking after plating isn't required.The aforementioned information is based on metal plating on ferrous alloys. It doesn't take into account the potential for added complications using multi coatings of copper, nickel then chrome, or the affects of hydrogen embrittlement and "decorative" metal finishing."Wayne BresslerTaildraggers, Inc.www.taildraggersinc.comOn Mar 18, 2013, at 12:24 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> I had my 4130 steel exhaust stacks chrome plated. I was told later that this is a no-no and it will crack. Can't remember the exact reasoning now. Please chime-in and refresh my memory if anybody knows. So far they are OK with maybe 60-70 hours.> > Dan Helsper> Puryear, TN> > > -----Original Message-----
Dan,This is from the National Metal Finishing Resource Center (http://www.nmfrc.org/crarchive/apr09c.cfm)The general synopsis is that hydrogen embrittlement is possible, but the ill effects (reduction of ductility) can be minimized by heating following the application of chrome."Hydrogen Embrittlement of Decorative Chrome on ChromolyQ. Is hydrogen embrittlement still a concern if 4130 chromoly steel is copper plated then nickle plated, then chrome plated? I'm building a helicopter and I want the steel to look nice without compromising it's strength. My parts are sitting at the plating shop but I'm having second thoughts...A. I'm not qualified to advise you about your subject parts and a multi-coating of copper-nickel-chrome on aircraft parts, but I can tell you what is considered standard practice when it comes to the subject of hydrogen embrittlement.One of the most important properties of metals is ductility. This is defined as the ability of the metal to deform under stress. Hydrogen embrittlement can cause metals to become brittle and inhibit its ability to deform or stretch. Baking after plating is a method of driving out the hydrogen and stress relieving the metal.Just as important as knowing the type of metal alloy (in your case 4130), is to know the hardness of that material and the "tensile strength". These values are necessary in order to establish the need for baking and if so, for how long and what temperature.Hardness is defined as the hardness value of the metal as obtained by a heat treatment, presumably based on a hardness test value in Rockwell, Vickers, Knoop or Brinnel. "Tensile strength" in thousands of pounds per square inch is usually determined by sustained load testing of parts or samples made from the same material or heat treat lot and that of the actual aircraft parts. Tensile strength directly correlates to part hardness.Once you have confirmed the type, hardness and tensile strength of your components, you can determine if a bake is required after plating to remove hydrogen and therefore reduce the affects of hydrogen embrittlementGeneral rule of thumb is to bake within 2 hours of removal from plating tank, in a certified oven, temperature range 375 - 400 degrees Fahrenheit, bake cycle times that range between 3 and 24 hours, depending on the "heat treatment" or "tensile strength" of the part(s). Charts are available.If metal parts are below 180 KSI (180,000 PSI) tensile strength or a hardness of 40 Rockwell "C" or less, baking after plating isn't required.The aforementioned information is based on metal plating on ferrous alloys. It doesn't take into account the potential for added complications using multi coatings of copper, nickel then chrome, or the affects of hydrogen embrittlement and "decorative" metal finishing."Wayne BresslerTaildraggers, Inc.www.taildraggersinc.comOn Mar 18, 2013, at 12:24 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> I had my 4130 steel exhaust stacks chrome plated. I was told later that this is a no-no and it will crack. Can't remember the exact reasoning now. Please chime-in and refresh my memory if anybody knows. So far they are OK with maybe 60-70 hours.> > Dan Helsper> Puryear, TN> > > -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: update on the top curmudegon
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: chroming exhaust pipes.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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: update on the top curmudegon
Subject: Pietenpol-List: chroming exhaust pipes.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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: update on the top curmudegon
Original Posted By: Gardiner
The Top Curmudeon is an amazingly positive guy that I am very privileged to know.I look forward to seeing him at Brodhead this year!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:55:32 -0400
The Top Curmudeon is an amazingly positive guy that I am very privileged to know.I look forward to seeing him at Brodhead this year!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:55:32 -0400