Original Posted By: "Pietenpol Bill"
Hey Randy,Yeah, I'm just kicking it around right now.- I had a lot of fun a few years ago when we all went in.- Just remember if you get invited to camp in one of the little "compounds" be sure to bring double ear protection!- My tent was in this fun tribe.- Ha!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0949_174.jpgle, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie needed help and info.
Pietenpol-List: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Hello to all, I am getting started on my Piet project and wanting to use the ModelA engine. I was talking to a fellow and he said that with the Model A, thePiet could use alittle bigger wing and that some guys lengthen the wing 4 feetwith the original rib design. Is this true? I started building ribs and wantto stay with the original airfoil but should I build a few more and make thewing longer? Is this a good idea and what would be the pro's and con's of doingthis? Would this produce better performance but slower cruise? He had alsosaid to raise the cabane struts 2" for getting in easier? Would the wing beinghigher have any difference on the air moving over the tail being changed andcausing any problems? Have read on here in the past of some Piets having problemsin steep turns wanting to keep tighening up and not wanting to roll backout. Would this have anything to do with longer or higher wings causing theseproblems? So the big question would be, for safety should I stick to the plansand build 29' or does it really need to be improved and should be 33' to be safeand fly better. Any and all input would be of help to ease my mind. ThanksRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hello to all, I am getting started on my Piet project and wanting to use the ModelA engine. I was talking to a fellow and he said that with the Model A, thePiet could use alittle bigger wing and that some guys lengthen the wing 4 feetwith the original rib design. Is this true? I started building ribs and wantto stay with the original airfoil but should I build a few more and make thewing longer? Is this a good idea and what would be the pro's and con's of doingthis? Would this produce better performance but slower cruise? He had alsosaid to raise the cabane struts 2" for getting in easier? Would the wing beinghigher have any difference on the air moving over the tail being changed andcausing any problems? Have read on here in the past of some Piets having problemsin steep turns wanting to keep tighening up and not wanting to roll backout. Would this have anything to do with longer or higher wings causing theseproblems? So the big question would be, for safety should I stick to the plansand build 29' or does it really need to be improved and should be 33' to be safeand fly better. Any and all input would be of help to ease my mind. ThanksRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Build it to the plans, and it will be a fine flying airplane. I made anumber of "improvments" to mine, and it flies almost as well as one builtstrictly to the plans. But not quite.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Build it to the plans, and it will be a fine flying airplane. I made anumber of "improvments" to mine, and it flies almost as well as one builtstrictly to the plans. But not quite.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: "tools"
Well, I used salmon tins.
MmmmmmmmClifThe only thing that interferes with my learningis my education. A. Einstein> >> You used paper bags -- I used large plastic drinking cups. C>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Well, I used salmon tins.
MmmmmmmmClifThe only thing that interferes with my learningis my education. A. Einstein> >> You used paper bags -- I used large plastic drinking cups. C>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
In a Piet, there are mods and there are MODS...The simple stuff like epoxy instead of casein, cable instead of hard wire, a littledoug fir (like for spars) instead of spruce, polyester and modern paint insteadof cotton and dope... are relatively minor.Making the wing 10 percent larger isn't...I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the general consensus is to keep asclose to plans as you can stand for the most predictable results. Which, asmentioned, is a great plane.Horsepower is a weird term and doesn't really mean anything on it's own. The Fordcan swing a large prop, lots of frontal low pressure area that translatesinto flies the plane fine. Don't let the 40 to 50 number scare you. Just as100hp from a Corvair shouldn't be ALL that impressive, as the prop is quite abit smaller. Read, read and read some more. Go find some folks building and flying and sitin their planes, talk to them about performance and flying. You'll find you haveLOTS to do while you make sweeping decisions like making the wing that muchlarger, as the ribs will be the same, still have to find and build a motor,etc. Keep in mind that all changes really have cascading effects and think them throughas well as you can. I will add that LOTS of folks do raise the wing an inch, maybe two, with minoreffects. That turns out to be not a huge deal. However, the wing size thingisn't as obvious from what I can tell...The airplane isn't super stable, but it's really safe and easy to fly, if builtto plans. I haven't flown one not built fairly closely to plans, with the exceptionof a high horsepower GN-1, and it really was a totally different animal,and I like the to plans flying characteristics better.Another line of thinking. If you make the wings larger, where are you going toattach the struts? The same place, further out in proportion, further than thatfor some other reason? Now those are even heavier... Larger wings might needbetter attaching. Are you gonna keep the fittings the same size? Thickermetal? Bigger cabane struts? Or not? It REALLY gets confusing quick, unless this stuff is really inane for you. Oneof the advantages to building a Piet is the vast amount of help you can get fromothers. My dad built a Hatz CB-1, which doesn't have ANY help on the planson throttle linkages, since it's assumed you'll have a different motor and setup,just figure it out on your own... and on and on and on. You really canVERY closely just follow the plans on an Piet without a lot of airplane buildingprior knowledge and wind up with a safe reliable plane.Food for thought. That being said, you really can make a lot of changes effectively,but most who enjoy the Piet, don't. Other genres of planes do a lot more.Stay in touch!ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
In a Piet, there are mods and there are MODS...The simple stuff like epoxy instead of casein, cable instead of hard wire, a littledoug fir (like for spars) instead of spruce, polyester and modern paint insteadof cotton and dope... are relatively minor.Making the wing 10 percent larger isn't...I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the general consensus is to keep asclose to plans as you can stand for the most predictable results. Which, asmentioned, is a great plane.Horsepower is a weird term and doesn't really mean anything on it's own. The Fordcan swing a large prop, lots of frontal low pressure area that translatesinto flies the plane fine. Don't let the 40 to 50 number scare you. Just as100hp from a Corvair shouldn't be ALL that impressive, as the prop is quite abit smaller. Read, read and read some more. Go find some folks building and flying and sitin their planes, talk to them about performance and flying. You'll find you haveLOTS to do while you make sweeping decisions like making the wing that muchlarger, as the ribs will be the same, still have to find and build a motor,etc. Keep in mind that all changes really have cascading effects and think them throughas well as you can. I will add that LOTS of folks do raise the wing an inch, maybe two, with minoreffects. That turns out to be not a huge deal. However, the wing size thingisn't as obvious from what I can tell...The airplane isn't super stable, but it's really safe and easy to fly, if builtto plans. I haven't flown one not built fairly closely to plans, with the exceptionof a high horsepower GN-1, and it really was a totally different animal,and I like the to plans flying characteristics better.Another line of thinking. If you make the wings larger, where are you going toattach the struts? The same place, further out in proportion, further than thatfor some other reason? Now those are even heavier... Larger wings might needbetter attaching. Are you gonna keep the fittings the same size? Thickermetal? Bigger cabane struts? Or not? It REALLY gets confusing quick, unless this stuff is really inane for you. Oneof the advantages to building a Piet is the vast amount of help you can get fromothers. My dad built a Hatz CB-1, which doesn't have ANY help on the planson throttle linkages, since it's assumed you'll have a different motor and setup,just figure it out on your own... and on and on and on. You really canVERY closely just follow the plans on an Piet without a lot of airplane buildingprior knowledge and wind up with a safe reliable plane.Food for thought. That being said, you really can make a lot of changes effectively,but most who enjoy the Piet, don't. Other genres of planes do a lot more.Stay in touch!ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
Dave - I used the East Texas Trim System (ETTS) originally, which was a bungeewrapped around the stick in the front seat to hold the elevators level. I didnot have any other elevator trim & did not need it. Several people have added an adjustable elevator trim system. Probably very helpfulif you have a nose tank. On the rebuild I will likely refine the ETTS to hide it in the back to hold upthe elevator beam behind the seat.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeRebuilding NX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Dave - I used the East Texas Trim System (ETTS) originally, which was a bungeewrapped around the stick in the front seat to hold the elevators level. I didnot have any other elevator trim & did not need it. Several people have added an adjustable elevator trim system. Probably very helpfulif you have a nose tank. On the rebuild I will likely refine the ETTS to hide it in the back to hold upthe elevator beam behind the seat.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeRebuilding NX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
All that Oscar said, plus: use the search feature on this sight. All your questionshave been beaten to death already.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeRebuilding NX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
All that Oscar said, plus: use the search feature on this sight. All your questionshave been beaten to death already.--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeRebuilding NX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: "Avill"
Great stuff Douwe , can't wait to see it in person!--------NX321LRFully AssembledTail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.Wings covered and primed, one paintedMitsubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Great stuff Douwe , can't wait to see it in person!--------NX321LRFully AssembledTail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.Wings covered and primed, one paintedMitsubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
I have been wondering this exact same thing. Thanks for bring it up Bill. My reasonsare different though. I would be operating a Piet off of airports at altitudesof 5-6,000 ft before factoring in DA. Hence why I would be interested inany experiences operating at these altitudes, or folks that have extended theirwing, and how they did it.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 18:54:43 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
I have been wondering this exact same thing. Thanks for bring it up Bill. My reasonsare different though. I would be operating a Piet off of airports at altitudesof 5-6,000 ft before factoring in DA. Hence why I would be interested inany experiences operating at these altitudes, or folks that have extended theirwing, and how they did it.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 18:54:43 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Ken, where are you located. I have kids in Colorado Springs and glen wood springs and I get out there often. My Piet has the cut out. And the WWII corvair. Gardiner Mason (Airlion)Sent from my iPadOn Apr 17, 2013, at 8:54 PM, Ken Bickers wrote:> Avill, > > I've given this question a lot of thought over the past several years. I, too, operate out of a fairly high airport, KLMO, which has a field elevation of just over 5k, but with density altitudes that are typically between 7k and 9k during the summer. > > On my Pietenpol project, which is not yet flying, I've done at least three things to compensate for altitude. One, I lengthened the wings by 9 inches on each side. I know that isn't much, but the spar blanks I bought from Aircraft Spruce were 14' long. I decided not to cut off the 9 inches, and instead to take advantage of the extra length. That works out to a 5% longer wingspan. The attach points for the diagonal spars moved out approximately 6 inches from what is called out in the plans. I did lots of calculations using the formulas on the WestCoastPiet.com website before deciding whether (and where) to shift the strut attach points, as the section of the wing outside the struts is where the greatest lift stresses are located.> > Two, I decided not to do a cutout over the rear cockpit. Everything I read suggests this reduces lift by a significant amount. Were I nearer to sea level, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to build with the cutout. I love the look. But I want to retain every last measure of lift. Instead, I built a flop section. That gives me ease of access to the rear pit and preserves lift. > > Three, I decided to use a Corvair engine. I'm going fairly stock, ala William Wynne's conversion manual, with a set up to produce approximately 100 hp at sea level, or about 70-75 hp on a typical summer day here in Colorado. > > Not specific to altitude but just in general, I've tried to be judicious about things that add weight. I have made a couple of concessions. I've used the Jenny-style landing gear. It is a bit heavier than the J3-style gear. I just like the way it looks. Also, I've installed a second fuel tank. Again, I wouldn't have done that if I still lived in the midwest where there is an airport every few miles. Where I fly, airports can get awfully far apart. When they do, I'd swear the winds are directly off the nose. > > Tell us all where you are. If you are in the Colorado area, feel free to drop me a PM. There are a few other Pietenpols in the area -- a couple that are finished and a couple, including mine, that are advancing toward completion.> > My best, Ken> > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Avill wrote:>> >> I have been wondering this exact same thing. Thanks for bring it up Bill. My reasons are different though. I would be operating a Piet off of airports at altitudes of 5-6,000 ft before factoring in DA. Hence why I would be interested in any experiences operating at these altitudes, or folks that have extended their wing, and how they did it.>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 836#398836>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==========>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> ==========>> http://forums.matronics.com>> ==========>> le, List Admin.>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> ==========> > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
Ken, where are you located. I have kids in Colorado Springs and glen wood springs and I get out there often. My Piet has the cut out. And the WWII corvair. Gardiner Mason (Airlion)Sent from my iPadOn Apr 17, 2013, at 8:54 PM, Ken Bickers wrote:> Avill, > > I've given this question a lot of thought over the past several years. I, too, operate out of a fairly high airport, KLMO, which has a field elevation of just over 5k, but with density altitudes that are typically between 7k and 9k during the summer. > > On my Pietenpol project, which is not yet flying, I've done at least three things to compensate for altitude. One, I lengthened the wings by 9 inches on each side. I know that isn't much, but the spar blanks I bought from Aircraft Spruce were 14' long. I decided not to cut off the 9 inches, and instead to take advantage of the extra length. That works out to a 5% longer wingspan. The attach points for the diagonal spars moved out approximately 6 inches from what is called out in the plans. I did lots of calculations using the formulas on the WestCoastPiet.com website before deciding whether (and where) to shift the strut attach points, as the section of the wing outside the struts is where the greatest lift stresses are located.> > Two, I decided not to do a cutout over the rear cockpit. Everything I read suggests this reduces lift by a significant amount. Were I nearer to sea level, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to build with the cutout. I love the look. But I want to retain every last measure of lift. Instead, I built a flop section. That gives me ease of access to the rear pit and preserves lift. > > Three, I decided to use a Corvair engine. I'm going fairly stock, ala William Wynne's conversion manual, with a set up to produce approximately 100 hp at sea level, or about 70-75 hp on a typical summer day here in Colorado. > > Not specific to altitude but just in general, I've tried to be judicious about things that add weight. I have made a couple of concessions. I've used the Jenny-style landing gear. It is a bit heavier than the J3-style gear. I just like the way it looks. Also, I've installed a second fuel tank. Again, I wouldn't have done that if I still lived in the midwest where there is an airport every few miles. Where I fly, airports can get awfully far apart. When they do, I'd swear the winds are directly off the nose. > > Tell us all where you are. If you are in the Colorado area, feel free to drop me a PM. There are a few other Pietenpols in the area -- a couple that are finished and a couple, including mine, that are advancing toward completion.> > My best, Ken> > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Avill wrote:>> >> I have been wondering this exact same thing. Thanks for bring it up Bill. My reasons are different though. I would be operating a Piet off of airports at altitudes of 5-6,000 ft before factoring in DA. Hence why I would be interested in any experiences operating at these altitudes, or folks that have extended their wing, and how they did it.>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 836#398836>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==========>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> ==========>> http://forums.matronics.com>> ==========>> le, List Admin.>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> ==========> > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: airlion2(at)gmail.com
Gary,Now, how did you manage to get included in the Virginia Pietenpols group? Californiato Brodhead via Virginia would be a BIG detour for you if you were going.> Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: Virginia Pietenpols > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > You will not see me at B'head this year...sorry to miss all y'all! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Gary,Now, how did you manage to get included in the Virginia Pietenpols group? Californiato Brodhead via Virginia would be a BIG detour for you if you were going.> Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: Virginia Pietenpols > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > You will not see me at B'head this year...sorry to miss all y'all! > > Gary Boothe > NX308MB > > Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Newbie needed help and info.