Original Posted By: "curtdm(at)gmail.com"
Very nice looking job Jake. I made my horns out of flat stock, now I kinda wishI would have followed the plans. Oh well maybe on the next one.Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, INSent from my iPadOn Nov 4, 2013, at 7:17 PM, "aerocarjake" wrote:> > Hello good Piet-ple,> > Well I finished fabricating the rudder and elevator control horns just in timeto have them welded by Mike (from "Ready Weld") on Friday. I schedule him tostop over "just a little before I am ready" to motivate me to make progress (ha!)> > A big nod goes to Bill Church (just in time - reading this forum last week) soI could include his "dang, that's a better way" idea. (His idea is a channelas a third part instead of bending over flanges.)> > Attached are some photos of Mike tack welding a horn along with a shot of a finishedelevator horn in position. The 5/8 flat stock runs all the way to thechannel - inside the horn - and was welded to the channel before the horn waswelded around it. I am putting a bolt through the flange in a different orientation(hole through the wood elevator spar not yet drilled in this picture) soit does not interfere with the covering. I have also added pictures of the belcrankassembly horns that he also welded on Friday. My cables and the hornswill be on the exterior of the plane such as several folks like Dick Navratilhave done - for a more "olde fashioned" look.....> > Feels like real good progress whenever a whole day of welding takes place. NowI have to figure out the routing for the rudder cables themselves...(!)> > Jake> > --------> Jake Schultz - curator,> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 120#412120> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/1_we ... rn_743.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2_ru ... ed_978.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/3_el ... rn_144.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/4_be ... ts_703.jpg> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
Can anyone suggest a good drill press and hand drill? Neither of my tools seemto be able to drill a nice hole. Both seem to have a little wobble in theirspindle that gets exaggerated thru the chuck and thru the bit. I've had bothchucks off and verified the wobble in the spindles.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Can anyone suggest a good drill press and hand drill? Neither of my tools seemto be able to drill a nice hole. Both seem to have a little wobble in theirspindle that gets exaggerated thru the chuck and thru the bit. I've had bothchucks off and verified the wobble in the spindles.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "GNflyer"
Hi Curt..... I like my Rigid brand drill press. (although I also have a real smallbenchtop drill press from Harbor Freight(!) which works great for little parts)All my hand drill drivers are either Milwaukee or Dewalt. They work realwell. (i have chosen NOT to go with air tools). All my bits are cobalt - froma machine tool distributor - WAY better than a normal drill bits although fairlypricey. Best way for real important holes is drill undersize and then dothe final hole with a carbide reamer. I only bought a 3/16", 1/4" and 5/16" whichshould be all the precision holes I need...? Hope this helps........--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Hi Curt..... I like my Rigid brand drill press. (although I also have a real smallbenchtop drill press from Harbor Freight(!) which works great for little parts)All my hand drill drivers are either Milwaukee or Dewalt. They work realwell. (i have chosen NOT to go with air tools). All my bits are cobalt - froma machine tool distributor - WAY better than a normal drill bits although fairlypricey. Best way for real important holes is drill undersize and then dothe final hole with a carbide reamer. I only bought a 3/16", 1/4" and 5/16" whichshould be all the precision holes I need...? Hope this helps........--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "curtdm(at)gmail.com"
Well if it's one of the typical harbor freight category you could pick up yourtrusty rubber mallet and smack that sucker. through trial and error I have correctedone some by persevering with some good old fashioned discipline. kindalike some kids at times- a talking doesn't always do much good but a little massageto the seat of the pants can bring them around. a whack or 2 and keep spinningit with a drill bit or straight rod to indicate where the wobble is mayget you some results. they tend to have a tapered shaft and you can probablyget some movement there. RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Well if it's one of the typical harbor freight category you could pick up yourtrusty rubber mallet and smack that sucker. through trial and error I have correctedone some by persevering with some good old fashioned discipline. kindalike some kids at times- a talking doesn't always do much good but a little massageto the seat of the pants can bring them around. a whack or 2 and keep spinningit with a drill bit or straight rod to indicate where the wobble is mayget you some results. they tend to have a tapered shaft and you can probablyget some movement there. RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Re: NX308MB Finally Up Again!!
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Raymond, I've tried a little manual influence without any positive results. I'mgoing to try it again with a little more oomph and a grunt.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX308MB Finally Up Again!!
Raymond, I've tried a little manual influence without any positive results. I'mgoing to try it again with a little more oomph and a grunt.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: NX308MB Finally Up Again!!
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Well, congratulations Gary. The flight looked beautiful and the plane looked rocksolid. Now what are you going to do with your free time? Oh yea, you weregoing to start your own Skunk Works factory. Looks like a good time to getthat going. Looking forward to seeing the Piet in June. Happy Landings,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Well, congratulations Gary. The flight looked beautiful and the plane looked rocksolid. Now what are you going to do with your free time? Oh yea, you weregoing to start your own Skunk Works factory. Looks like a good time to getthat going. Looking forward to seeing the Piet in June. Happy Landings,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "tools"
Ken Perkins displayed a set of horns at Brodhead several years ago that used thechannel. He also demonstrated how to form the leading edge of the horns. LikeBill, I also latched on to that idea. Nothing like Pietenpol people for sharingconstruction methods.DanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Ken Perkins displayed a set of horns at Brodhead several years ago that used thechannel. He also demonstrated how to form the leading edge of the horns. LikeBill, I also latched on to that idea. Nothing like Pietenpol people for sharingconstruction methods.DanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "tools"
Jake,The pictures are a great help. especially the walking beam. Nicely done!--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Jake,The pictures are a great help. especially the walking beam. Nicely done!--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "tkreiner"
I am building a 3 panel flybaby style windshield for my Piet. Pete Bowers originallydesigned the flat windshield for 1/8 inch plexiglas. I am going to go withLexan, but I can only find 0.080" Lexan locally. If I have to order from ACSSI will need to order 8 sq feet instead of only a 28"x 30" panel from Lowes.What say ye? Will the .080" thick Lexan be a OK replacement strength wise forthe 1/8" acrylic? The frame is .052" 5052 aluminum. I do know that Don Emchand Hans Vandevoo both used .080 Lexan on formed windshields, but I was wonderingabout the flat style.Rick Schreiber Sent from my iPad________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
I am building a 3 panel flybaby style windshield for my Piet. Pete Bowers originallydesigned the flat windshield for 1/8 inch plexiglas. I am going to go withLexan, but I can only find 0.080" Lexan locally. If I have to order from ACSSI will need to order 8 sq feet instead of only a 28"x 30" panel from Lowes.What say ye? Will the .080" thick Lexan be a OK replacement strength wise forthe 1/8" acrylic? The frame is .052" 5052 aluminum. I do know that Don Emchand Hans Vandevoo both used .080 Lexan on formed windshields, but I was wonderingabout the flat style.Rick Schreiber Sent from my iPad________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Curt,Cobalt "coated" drills are a joke; don't buy them. If you're going to buy a setof Drills, watch the Harbor Freight ads, and by a set of Cobalt Drills. Theseare great drills, we use them in my shop classes, and they last. They're excellentdrills, and I tell my students and the guys in my EAA chapter that they're"China's Finest." And I stand by that. (Northern Tool sells Cobalt coateddrills for the same $$, and they're junk.)TiN coated drills, on the other hand, are nice to look at, pretty good to use,but they to, are inferior to the Cobalt drills sold by Harbor Freight. We watch the flyer, and when they're on sale for $99. per set, we always buy anew set to replace the drills we have lost thru attrition.The advice given in an earlier post about the tools was pretty good; my contributionis that if you have an older drill press, and the spindle bearings needto be replaced, do that for $30 rather than buying a new junk drill press. Also,be sure to support the workpiece with a piece of wood, MDF, whatever, so yourdrill doesn't try to extrude rather than cut. If you don't already have one,invest a few bucks in a drill press vice; they make a huge difference.When you're drilling a larger hole, first drill a pilot hole the size of the webof the larger drill. The larger drill will follow the pilot hole, and giveyou better results.If you follow the above, and learn a little about the suggested SFPM of variousmaterials, you'll be well on your way to producing parts with precision holes.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Curt,Cobalt "coated" drills are a joke; don't buy them. If you're going to buy a setof Drills, watch the Harbor Freight ads, and by a set of Cobalt Drills. Theseare great drills, we use them in my shop classes, and they last. They're excellentdrills, and I tell my students and the guys in my EAA chapter that they're"China's Finest." And I stand by that. (Northern Tool sells Cobalt coateddrills for the same $$, and they're junk.)TiN coated drills, on the other hand, are nice to look at, pretty good to use,but they to, are inferior to the Cobalt drills sold by Harbor Freight. We watch the flyer, and when they're on sale for $99. per set, we always buy anew set to replace the drills we have lost thru attrition.The advice given in an earlier post about the tools was pretty good; my contributionis that if you have an older drill press, and the spindle bearings needto be replaced, do that for $30 rather than buying a new junk drill press. Also,be sure to support the workpiece with a piece of wood, MDF, whatever, so yourdrill doesn't try to extrude rather than cut. If you don't already have one,invest a few bucks in a drill press vice; they make a huge difference.When you're drilling a larger hole, first drill a pilot hole the size of the webof the larger drill. The larger drill will follow the pilot hole, and giveyou better results.If you follow the above, and learn a little about the suggested SFPM of variousmaterials, you'll be well on your way to producing parts with precision holes.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Rick,I don't know what's OK, but mine are 1/8" Lexan from Lowe's AircraftSupply....haven't blown away yet...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Rick,I don't know what's OK, but mine are 1/8" Lexan from Lowe's AircraftSupply....haven't blown away yet...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness
Original Posted By: Rick Schreiber
RE: Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Should be able to get a reading tomorrow...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Should be able to get a reading tomorrow...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness
Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
Rick,A lot of glass supply places also sell plexiglass and lexan in just about any size/amount you want - check around locally. I used to get lexan for my lab at a place a couple blocks from campus, and this was in a small midwestern town, so I'd say it shouldn't be hard to find.Kip GardnerOn Nov 5, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote:> >>> On 11/5/2013 9:42 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:>> Rick,>>>> I don't know what's OK, but mine are 1/8" Lexan from Lowe's Aircraft>> Supply....haven't blown away yet...>>>> Gary Boothe>> NX308MB>>> Gary,> I was going to use Lowe's 1/8 inch Lexan, but as I said both of the > local Lowes only have it in 0.09". Looking at Lowes website, they > say both stores have the 1/8 inch material, but that's not true. I > also notice now that the website says the material is 1/8", but when > you click on the specs the thickness is listed as 0.093" thick, not > 0.125". Gary, when you get a chance could you check the thickness of > the Lowes Lexan that you used. I'm not trying to over-think this, > but as difficult as these windows are to make, I sure don't want to > make a mistake.>> The nice thing about the Lowes material is that the 28x30 sheet size > is big enough to do both the front and rear windshields. If I order > true 1/8" Lexan from ACSS the 2'x2' sheet is too small. In order to > have enough material I would have to order a minimum of 8 square > feet for twice as much money.>> Rick Schreiber>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 00:14:45 -0800
Rick,A lot of glass supply places also sell plexiglass and lexan in just about any size/amount you want - check around locally. I used to get lexan for my lab at a place a couple blocks from campus, and this was in a small midwestern town, so I'd say it shouldn't be hard to find.Kip GardnerOn Nov 5, 2013, at 11:16 PM, Rick Schreiber wrote:> >>> On 11/5/2013 9:42 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:>> Rick,>>>> I don't know what's OK, but mine are 1/8" Lexan from Lowe's Aircraft>> Supply....haven't blown away yet...>>>> Gary Boothe>> NX308MB>>> Gary,> I was going to use Lowe's 1/8 inch Lexan, but as I said both of the > local Lowes only have it in 0.09". Looking at Lowes website, they > say both stores have the 1/8 inch material, but that's not true. I > also notice now that the website says the material is 1/8", but when > you click on the specs the thickness is listed as 0.093" thick, not > 0.125". Gary, when you get a chance could you check the thickness of > the Lowes Lexan that you used. I'm not trying to over-think this, > but as difficult as these windows are to make, I sure don't want to > make a mistake.>> The nice thing about the Lowes material is that the 28x30 sheet size > is big enough to do both the front and rear windshields. If I order > true 1/8" Lexan from ACSS the 2'x2' sheet is too small. In order to > have enough material I would have to order a minimum of 8 square > feet for twice as much money.>> Rick Schreiber>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2013 00:14:45 -0800
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: Bkemike
Thank you everyone for the replies. Worst problem is I'm already using all ofthe practices suggestedclamps, guides, pilot hole thru reamer. My drills justsuck and they are both fairly new.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Thank you everyone for the replies. Worst problem is I'm already using all ofthe practices suggestedclamps, guides, pilot hole thru reamer. My drills justsuck and they are both fairly new.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness
Original Posted By: Rick Schreiber
Lowe's Online charges about 50% more, per square foot, for "1/8" Lexan than AircraftSpuce. For the 0.093" actual thickness of Lowe's nominal 1/8", Lowe's wants $33.48 for28"x30", which is $5.73/sq ft. AS&S gets $29.50 for a 2' x 4' x 0.093" sheet,or $3.69/sq ft.Mike HardawayPolitely tapped on the Gorilla Glass of an iPad.> On Nov 5, 2013, at 6:17 PM, Rick wrote:> > > I am building a 3 panel flybaby style windshield for my Piet. Pete Bowers originallydesigned the flat windshield for 1/8 inch plexiglas. I am going to gowith Lexan, but I can only find 0.080" Lexan locally. If I have to order fromACSS I will need to order 8 sq feet instead of only a 28"x 30" panel from Lowes.What say ye? Will the .080" thick Lexan be a OK replacement strength wisefor the 1/8" acrylic? The frame is .052" 5052 aluminum. I do know that Don Emchand Hans Vandevoo both used .080 Lexan on formed windshields, but I was wonderingabout the flat style.> > Rick Schreiber > > Sent from my iPad> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 08:21:30 -0600
Lowe's Online charges about 50% more, per square foot, for "1/8" Lexan than AircraftSpuce. For the 0.093" actual thickness of Lowe's nominal 1/8", Lowe's wants $33.48 for28"x30", which is $5.73/sq ft. AS&S gets $29.50 for a 2' x 4' x 0.093" sheet,or $3.69/sq ft.Mike HardawayPolitely tapped on the Gorilla Glass of an iPad.> On Nov 5, 2013, at 6:17 PM, Rick wrote:> > > I am building a 3 panel flybaby style windshield for my Piet. Pete Bowers originallydesigned the flat windshield for 1/8 inch plexiglas. I am going to gowith Lexan, but I can only find 0.080" Lexan locally. If I have to order fromACSS I will need to order 8 sq feet instead of only a 28"x 30" panel from Lowes.What say ye? Will the .080" thick Lexan be a OK replacement strength wisefor the 1/8" acrylic? The frame is .052" 5052 aluminum. I do know that Don Emchand Hans Vandevoo both used .080 Lexan on formed windshields, but I was wonderingabout the flat style.> > Rick Schreiber > > Sent from my iPad> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 08:21:30 -0600
Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness
Original Posted By: Rick Schreiber
Re: Pietenpol-List: Windshield thickness
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "tkreiner"
Rick,I would think with it being supported all the way around you should have no problemat all with .080" thick. Mine is unsupported at that thickness and I don'thave any issues. I'd definitely use the .080" thick.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Rick,I would think with it being supported all the way around you should have no problemat all with .080" thick. Mine is unsupported at that thickness and I don'thave any issues. I'd definitely use the .080" thick.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "curtdm(at)gmail.com"
Curt,Try setting spindle speed using the formulas on the attached pdf.When drilling 4130 with cobalt drills, try calculating about 100 SFPM to start,and use a rather high infeed rate. Increase cutting pressure to do this. Forsome reason, 4XXX series metals like a high feed rate, but a rather moderatei.e., lower than 1018, sfpm.Please post results...--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/sfm_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Curt,Try setting spindle speed using the formulas on the attached pdf.When drilling 4130 with cobalt drills, try calculating about 100 SFPM to start,and use a rather high infeed rate. Increase cutting pressure to do this. Forsome reason, 4XXX series metals like a high feed rate, but a rather moderatei.e., lower than 1018, sfpm.Please post results...--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/sfm_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
I checked the speed of my press and it's set at 620 rpm. The slowest it'll go.I also ran to Harbor Freight and bought a set of cobalt bits. When I got home,I put a 1/4" reamer into the chuck and ran it. While running it, I slowly approachedthe shaft with a marker to mark the side of the chuck that was goingto get whacked. After giving it a slight beating, I tried the new bits.The combination of bits and beating helped. I started with a 3/32" pilot hole.It cut through nicely. Then I followed it with a 3/16" bit. I was very impressedwith the finished hole. After a finishing it with a reamer, an AN-3 boltslid right in without any wobble.Now I get to re-do some parts to Jake-like quality.Thanks again everyone!--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles
I checked the speed of my press and it's set at 620 rpm. The slowest it'll go.I also ran to Harbor Freight and bought a set of cobalt bits. When I got home,I put a 1/4" reamer into the chuck and ran it. While running it, I slowly approachedthe shaft with a marker to mark the side of the chuck that was goingto get whacked. After giving it a slight beating, I tried the new bits.The combination of bits and beating helped. I started with a 3/32" pilot hole.It cut through nicely. Then I followed it with a 3/16" bit. I was very impressedwith the finished hole. After a finishing it with a reamer, an AN-3 boltslid right in without any wobble.Now I get to re-do some parts to Jake-like quality.Thanks again everyone!--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drilling troubles