Original Posted By: Grantz5906
I've posted important information on lodging. Please check the Facebook page:https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Corva ... -----Kevin "Axel" PurteeRebuilding NX899KPAustin/San Marcos, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: "bdewenter"
I have?finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects.? I am looking forward to the project and participating in the list discussions.? I have already gained a volume of useful information from this group.? Thanks!!?I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft.? As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long.? Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"?? ?OR? Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span??Thanks for the assistance.?Grant ZiebellSavannah, TN??________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
I have?finally started construction of my Pietenpol after a year of lurking on the list and finishing other projects.? I am looking forward to the project and participating in the list discussions.? I have already gained a volume of useful information from this group.? Thanks!!?I purchased several spruce planks from another Piet builder who indicated it was enough wood to build a complete aircraft.? As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long.? Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"?? ?OR? Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span??Thanks for the assistance.?Grant ZiebellSavannah, TN??________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Welcome to the forum Grant!--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Welcome to the forum Grant!--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Original Posted By: "curtdm(at)gmail.com"
Wow, good question for a first post!Right off the top of my head, I'd not want to lose a foot and a half of wing.BUT, either case you mention involves making the wing panels a bit shorter. I'mnot sure any of this is gonna matter off the top of my head, but something toconsider with a wing bay deletion, or change in rib spacing, is whether you'regonna have problems with drag wire interference with the ribs? All your strutsmight wind up being a different length, and jury struts, etc (this isn'ta huge deal). With a center section increase, are you gonna leave the vert struts in the sameplace, or angle them outwards? If they angle out, they're quite a bit more complicatedto make. You can scarf a section onto what you have to make them longer. Proper scarfingon a spar will require plywood doublers, and then the inability to rout as much,with a corresponding increase in some weight, but it can be done. Also,not really supposed to have fittings through a scarf, so you'll have to plan onwhere you scarf. I'm not recommending you do or don't, or which way you go... just hope to havebrought up some things you may not have considered.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Wow, good question for a first post!Right off the top of my head, I'd not want to lose a foot and a half of wing.BUT, either case you mention involves making the wing panels a bit shorter. I'mnot sure any of this is gonna matter off the top of my head, but something toconsider with a wing bay deletion, or change in rib spacing, is whether you'regonna have problems with drag wire interference with the ribs? All your strutsmight wind up being a different length, and jury struts, etc (this isn'ta huge deal). With a center section increase, are you gonna leave the vert struts in the sameplace, or angle them outwards? If they angle out, they're quite a bit more complicatedto make. You can scarf a section onto what you have to make them longer. Proper scarfingon a spar will require plywood doublers, and then the inability to rout as much,with a corresponding increase in some weight, but it can be done. Also,not really supposed to have fittings through a scarf, so you'll have to plan onwhere you scarf. I'm not recommending you do or don't, or which way you go... just hope to havebrought up some things you may not have considered.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Jim,Yes the one I thought was good for 100 pounds only good for 44 pounds. It's doing good with 50 pound but I'm starting to rethink my setup.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Jim,Yes the one I thought was good for 100 pounds only good for 44 pounds. It's doing good with 50 pound but I'm starting to rethink my setup.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Grant,Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4' center section with12' spars was used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affects strut lengthor cabanes, necessarily. Look up Steve's email and contact him directly.Gary BootheNX308MB
Grant,Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4' center section with12' spars was used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affects strut lengthor cabanes, necessarily. Look up Steve's email and contact him directly.Gary BootheNX308MB
Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: "bdewenter"
Grant,Here's a link to the thread that Gary was referring to:http://www.matronics.com/searching/getm ... S=YESSteve writes that his center section was 4 ft wide, and his outer spars 12'-6"(just like yours). as Tools mentioned, you may need to adjust rib locations slightlyto avoid drag/anti-drag wire interference, and you'll probably have todo a little more thinking, but at least you will get to use the spars that youalready have. I don't recommend splaying your cabanes - that will complicateyour life unnecessarily.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Grant,Here's a link to the thread that Gary was referring to:http://www.matronics.com/searching/getm ... S=YESSteve writes that his center section was 4 ft wide, and his outer spars 12'-6"(just like yours). as Tools mentioned, you may need to adjust rib locations slightlyto avoid drag/anti-drag wire interference, and you'll probably have todo a little more thinking, but at least you will get to use the spars that youalready have. I don't recommend splaying your cabanes - that will complicateyour life unnecessarily.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: "GrantZ"
Grant, and othersDon't over worry about the drag - anti drag wires interfering with "plans" ribspacing (per say). I am considering slightly expanding wing span and using 3sets of cross brace wires per wing - more X than stock plans. Just don't glueor nail anything until you have dry fitted the ribs to the spars relative tothe X wires - and that goes for anyone regardless of wing span or how many bracewires are used...--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Grant, and othersDon't over worry about the drag - anti drag wires interfering with "plans" ribspacing (per say). I am considering slightly expanding wing span and using 3sets of cross brace wires per wing - more X than stock plans. Just don't glueor nail anything until you have dry fitted the ribs to the spars relative tothe X wires - and that goes for anyone regardless of wing span or how many bracewires are used...--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grantz5906
Great info, as always from this group. Thanks!Grant ZiebellSavannah, TN[quote="gboothe"]Grant,Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4 center section with 12 sparswas used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affects strut length or cabanes,necessarily. Look up Steves email and contact him directly.Gary BootheNX308MB
Great info, as always from this group. Thanks!Grant ZiebellSavannah, TN[quote="gboothe"]Grant,Look in the SEARCH Archives, and you will see that a 4 center section with 12 sparswas used by Steve Eldridge. I doubt if this affects strut length or cabanes,necessarily. Look up Steves email and contact him directly.Gary BootheNX308MB
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: Marcus Zechini
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
You mean like this? The original plans as per the Flying & Glider manualputs the span at 28 ft two in. So with a 36" center section plus your 12"6" plus 1" each side for the tip bows you'd be right there. If you want more spanthen go 48" but you might want to splay yourcabanes some. Six inches past the cabanes is finebut a foot might be a bit much. Go to this page andscrolldown to the diagram and explanation justbelow the lettering template. This will give you theinfo necessary to figure out the forces on the wingstruts, inner and outer. What you'll see is that theouter struts take the lions share of the load.http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-0 ... _Tips.html As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
You mean like this? The original plans as per the Flying & Glider manualputs the span at 28 ft two in. So with a 36" center section plus your 12"6" plus 1" each side for the tip bows you'd be right there. If you want more spanthen go 48" but you might want to splay yourcabanes some. Six inches past the cabanes is finebut a foot might be a bit much. Go to this page andscrolldown to the diagram and explanation justbelow the lettering template. This will give you theinfo necessary to figure out the forces on the wingstruts, inner and outer. What you'll see is that theouter struts take the lions share of the load.http://www.clifdawson.ca/Homepage4-10-0 ... _Tips.html As luck would have it, upon measuring the spar pieces, I discovered that they were only 12'- 6" long vice the required 13'-2.5" long. Would it be problematic to increase the width of the center section (I had planned on a 36" center section - per Bill Rewey) an additional 18" to achieve the correct total spar span of 29'-5"? OR Would it be a great loss to keep the center section at 36" and the outer panel spars at 12'-6" (for a total spar span of 28') and not worry about the loss of 1'-5" of span? Thanks for the assistance. Grant Ziebell Savannah, TN________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
Curt- be careful what you wish for... you might get it. When you say you wouldprefer to have a couple of nearby builder friends to help you with the fuselagerather than to have a self-operated hoist system, I just want you to recognizethat the speed of forward building progress is inversely proportional to thenumber of visitors you have in your hangar. If you could only get them tocome help you with an awkward task and then just shoo away, it would be great;o) I must admit that I had two of the best, most helpful, courteous, and consideratesuch hangar friends when I was in San Antonio. [UNCLASSIFIED] SteveDortch and John Kuhfahl were those friends. Always available and willing to lenda hand, always polite about letting me get on with whatever I was workingon at the time.Since things are a mite slow, I'll also take this opportunity to recognize oneof my brother's granddaughters, Emma Green. Emma is just turning 11 years old,but she was only 8 when she got her first airplane ride. In my Piet, of course.She loves airplanes, loves flying, and really played the part the day wewent flying. She wore a flight helmet and goggles, and we communicated via aset of old WWII carbon mics and headphones, shouting back and forth into theold black mics, "HOW ARE YOU DOING; OVER"... "I LOVE IT; OVER"... "DO YOU WANTTO GO AROUND AGAIN; OVER"... "YES, PLEASE; OVER"... and like that. What fun.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:26:52 -0800
Curt- be careful what you wish for... you might get it. When you say you wouldprefer to have a couple of nearby builder friends to help you with the fuselagerather than to have a self-operated hoist system, I just want you to recognizethat the speed of forward building progress is inversely proportional to thenumber of visitors you have in your hangar. If you could only get them tocome help you with an awkward task and then just shoo away, it would be great;o) I must admit that I had two of the best, most helpful, courteous, and consideratesuch hangar friends when I was in San Antonio. [UNCLASSIFIED] SteveDortch and John Kuhfahl were those friends. Always available and willing to lenda hand, always polite about letting me get on with whatever I was workingon at the time.Since things are a mite slow, I'll also take this opportunity to recognize oneof my brother's granddaughters, Emma Green. Emma is just turning 11 years old,but she was only 8 when she got her first airplane ride. In my Piet, of course.She loves airplanes, loves flying, and really played the part the day wewent flying. She wore a flight helmet and goggles, and we communicated via aset of old WWII carbon mics and headphones, shouting back and forth into theold black mics, "HOW ARE YOU DOING; OVER"... "I LOVE IT; OVER"... "DO YOU WANTTO GO AROUND AGAIN; OVER"... "YES, PLEASE; OVER"... and like that. What fun.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:26:52 -0800
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Original Posted By: curtdm(at)gmail.com
This stuff reminds me of when I was recovering my Champ back in 1976. Had the wing roped to the ceiling....and one side gave way. Wingtip came down with a crash and cracked the spar............AARRRRG!Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
This stuff reminds me of when I was recovering my Champ back in 1976. Had the wing roped to the ceiling....and one side gave way. Wingtip came down with a crash and cracked the spar............AARRRRG!Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Curt I have two of these for our bikes, why didn't I think of that!Jack TextorWest Des Moines, IA-----Original Message-----
Curt I have two of these for our bikes, why didn't I think of that!Jack TextorWest Des Moines, IA-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: airlion2(at)gmail.com
danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:> P & W R-4360. But it may be too much prop for it. We'll see.> > Dan Helsper> Puryear, TN> --.... really. [Rolling Eyes]--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
danhelsper(at)aol.com wrote:> P & W R-4360. But it may be too much prop for it. We'll see.> > Dan Helsper> Puryear, TN> --.... really. [Rolling Eyes]--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
RE: Pietenpol-List: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hi Grant,Welcome to the world of Pietenpol building! I wouldn't recommend building a clipped-wing Pietenpol. It needs more wingarea if anything, rather than less. As for increasing the width of thecenter section, that can be done (I made mine 36" wide to accommodate morefuel) but be aware that such a change tends to ripple through the entireproject, and you are entering the realm of aircraft designer rather thanjust aircraft builder.My advice would be to bite the bullet and order the proper sized sparmaterial. Savannah is close enough to Wicks Aircraft Supply that you coulddrive there to pick up the wood to avoid shipping charges.Good luck!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Hi Grant,Welcome to the world of Pietenpol building! I wouldn't recommend building a clipped-wing Pietenpol. It needs more wingarea if anything, rather than less. As for increasing the width of thecenter section, that can be done (I made mine 36" wide to accommodate morefuel) but be aware that such a change tends to ripple through the entireproject, and you are entering the realm of aircraft designer rather thanjust aircraft builder.My advice would be to bite the bullet and order the proper sized sparmaterial. Savannah is close enough to Wicks Aircraft Supply that you coulddrive there to pick up the wood to avoid shipping charges.Good luck!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Original Posted By: Marcus Zechini
Welcome aboard,I like the idea of scarfing them. It is the least expensive way to do it. Justmake sure the the scarf joints are at the wing tips. This way you only needto purchase 8 feet of spar material or perhaps you already have enough with thesupply you purchased? Oh, I only have a 27 foot wing span and wish it where 29 feet per plans.Happy building,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:46:50 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
Welcome aboard,I like the idea of scarfing them. It is the least expensive way to do it. Justmake sure the the scarf joints are at the wing tips. This way you only needto purchase 8 feet of spar material or perhaps you already have enough with thesupply you purchased? Oh, I only have a 27 foot wing span and wish it where 29 feet per plans.Happy building,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 14:46:50 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Started Construction - Spar Length Question
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Jim,I sure hope you don=99t do your Weight and Balance with that scale.My velodrome-only bike, with no gears at all, nor brakes neither, weighs 17 LB.Mike Hardaway
Jim,I sure hope you don=99t do your Weight and Balance with that scale.My velodrome-only bike, with no gears at all, nor brakes neither, weighs 17 LB.Mike Hardaway
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Weaver - slow day
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer