Original Posted By: "D. Engelkenjohn"
Boy is this list dead. Is everyone out flying or making sawdust?I just cut out the firewall end of the motor mounts that are made of 1/8"4130. I use a standard wood cutting band saw with a standard 1/2" woodcutting blade. I timed the cuts. They were basically 30 seconds per inchof straight cut. It is called friction cutting. You get it going just fastenough to create a red glow where the blade meets the sheet. I have beenusing this blade for 6 months of off and on cutting.I report this for those that might already own a band saw and be thinkingabout investing in a metal cutting band saw. Unless you need the metal onefor other things, the wood saw does just fine.You need to change blades to cut wood. After cutting metal it isn't worth adarn for wood cutting. Of course, you want to open the saw and get all thesaw dust out before cutting metal or have a fire extinguisher handy.Hope this helps someone save a little $ and shop space. And see if we canget a little life in this list again.Ted________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 18:30:42 -0500
Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130
RE: Pietenpol-List: Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversion
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Dennis Are you asking about the pressure feeds to the main bearings or to connectan oil pressure gauge? The conversion process is well described in the F&G manuals and in the 1933plan set.If you are looking to install a pressure gauge on an A, don't!It will just scare you.The system was designed to work on flow to the dipper tray to oil the rodsand gravity feed to the cam and mains. As the oil heats up it flows moreeasily and the pressure will drop of drastically.John-----Original Message-----
Dennis Are you asking about the pressure feeds to the main bearings or to connectan oil pressure gauge? The conversion process is well described in the F&G manuals and in the 1933plan set.If you are looking to install a pressure gauge on an A, don't!It will just scare you.The system was designed to work on flow to the dipper tray to oil the rodsand gravity feed to the cam and mains. As the oil heats up it flows moreeasily and the pressure will drop of drastically.John-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversion
Original Posted By: "John McNarry"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversionIn a message dated 4/27/2003 8:25:39 PM Central Standard Time, jmcnarry(at)escape.ca writes:> As the oil heats up it flows more> easily and the pressure will drop of drastically.> Yeah John, but at least, with a guage you know that it's pumping. Mine starts out at 10-15# then drops down to 3# and holds there. One of the problems in the car was starving the front main on long sustained uphill pulls using gravity feed only. Not unlike a climbout in the plane. Comforting to know it's still getting oil to the mains even though it's just 3# . Don________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversionIn a message dated 4/27/2003 8:25:39 PM Central Standard Time, jmcnarry(at)escape.ca writes:> As the oil heats up it flows more> easily and the pressure will drop of drastically.> Yeah John, but at least, with a guage you know that it's pumping. Mine starts out at 10-15# then drops down to 3# and holds there. One of the problems in the car was starving the front main on long sustained uphill pulls using gravity feed only. Not unlike a climbout in the plane. Comforting to know it's still getting oil to the mains even though it's just 3# . Don________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Oil lines to manifold on Pietenpol conversion
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Don Some of the older cars and other equipment had sight tube that gave avisual reference to the flow.More reassuring than a gauge, and wouldn't be hard to build.One line to the sight tube, a small orifice in the top of a glass tube in abrass cutaway tube,and a return line to the sump.A flow meter of sorts.The gauge in my AA truck has been removed.I found little comfort in it.John-----Original Message-----
Don Some of the older cars and other equipment had sight tube that gave avisual reference to the flow.More reassuring than a gauge, and wouldn't be hard to build.One line to the sight tube, a small orifice in the top of a glass tube in abrass cutaway tube,and a return line to the sump.A flow meter of sorts.The gauge in my AA truck has been removed.I found little comfort in it.John-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: "Ted Brousseau"
Thanks Ted, I'll try it. I just bought some 4130 sheet. I forgot all aboutthat way of cutting steel. I heard about it long ago and forgot.George AllenHarrisburg, PAGeorgeA(at)PAonline.com(Peitenpol builder)---- Original Message -----> I just cut out the firewall end of the motor mounts that are made of 1/8"> 4130. I use a standard wood cutting band saw with a standard 1/2" wood> cutting blade. I timed the cuts. They were basically 30 seconds per inch> of straight cut. It is called friction cutting. You get it going justfast> enough to create a red glow where the blade meets the sheet. I have been> using this blade for 6 months of off and on cutting.> Hope this helps someone save a little $ and shop space. And see if we can> get a little life in this list again.>> Ted________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Ted, I'll try it. I just bought some 4130 sheet. I forgot all aboutthat way of cutting steel. I heard about it long ago and forgot.George AllenHarrisburg, PAGeorgeA(at)PAonline.com(Peitenpol builder)---- Original Message -----> I just cut out the firewall end of the motor mounts that are made of 1/8"> 4130. I use a standard wood cutting band saw with a standard 1/2" wood> cutting blade. I timed the cuts. They were basically 30 seconds per inch> of straight cut. It is called friction cutting. You get it going justfast> enough to create a red glow where the blade meets the sheet. I have been> using this blade for 6 months of off and on cutting.> Hope this helps someone save a little $ and shop space. And see if we can> get a little life in this list again.>> Ted________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: I meant 0.20" wall thickness
Original Posted By: "Michael D Cuy"
Thanks Mike,What did you other builders of straight axles use?? The F&G manual callsfor 12 GA which is around .11 thick tubing. Has anyone used 12 GA and livedto tell about it?TedWith order in hand just waiting to fill in this last blank.----- Original Message -----
Thanks Mike,What did you other builders of straight axles use?? The F&G manual callsfor 12 GA which is around .11 thick tubing. Has anyone used 12 GA and livedto tell about it?TedWith order in hand just waiting to fill in this last blank.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
RE: Pietenpol-List: Cabane bottom attachment
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane bottom attachment
Original Posted By: "Rick Holland"
lengthen the fittings and insert a 4" piece of 2024-T351 Square bar intothe bottom end of the cabane. Place a bolt through the cabane and bar abovethe fitting.... this helps put some load further up on the cabane.I used Carlson (Sky-Tek) struts and that's how I did mine.see these pics.http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image- ... 0-03.htmDJ Veghwww.imagedv.com/aircamperN74DVMesa, AZ----- Original Message -----
lengthen the fittings and insert a 4" piece of 2024-T351 Square bar intothe bottom end of the cabane. Place a bolt through the cabane and bar abovethe fitting.... this helps put some load further up on the cabane.I used Carlson (Sky-Tek) struts and that's how I did mine.see these pics.http://imagedv.com/aircamper/log/image- ... 0-03.htmDJ Veghwww.imagedv.com/aircamperN74DVMesa, AZ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
Hi Guys. I need some advice. I have a commercial type band saw that uses a 93inch blade. It is really for wood, but I have slowed it down with a jack shaftI made, and it is slow enough now. I tried to rip some .100 4130 and it quicklyruined my blade. Is this not going to work. I need to come up with someway to make this thing work. I've been making some progress on my fuselage and hopeing to finishit by spring then move on to the wing when time allowsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jeep ... __________
Hi Guys. I need some advice. I have a commercial type band saw that uses a 93inch blade. It is really for wood, but I have slowed it down with a jack shaftI made, and it is slow enough now. I tried to rip some .100 4130 and it quicklyruined my blade. Is this not going to work. I need to come up with someway to make this thing work. I've been making some progress on my fuselage and hopeing to finishit by spring then move on to the wing when time allowsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/jeep ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: "tools"
Make a table for better control.This one, along with a 5" vise, is mounted atop arestaurant table base. It can be rolled around thesame as a55 gal drumor barrel. With one foot onit it's solid. Make the table hieght the same as thetop of the vise jaws.Although these pics aren't great I'm sure guys-who-build-Piets can figure it out. :-)ClifIt matters not what things have been.It only matters what they become.>> I find my 4 1/2 angle grider with cutoff disc works great. I have a second > grinder with a sanding disc to clean up edges. Many fittings can be made > by first buying strip steel of correct width to reduce cuts needed.> Paul Donahue________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Make a table for better control.This one, along with a 5" vise, is mounted atop arestaurant table base. It can be rolled around thesame as a55 gal drumor barrel. With one foot onit it's solid. Make the table hieght the same as thetop of the vise jaws.Although these pics aren't great I'm sure guys-who-build-Piets can figure it out. :-)ClifIt matters not what things have been.It only matters what they become.>> I find my 4 1/2 angle grider with cutoff disc works great. I have a second > grinder with a sanding disc to clean up edges. Many fittings can be made > by first buying strip steel of correct width to reduce cuts needed.> Paul Donahue________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
I've cut a LOT of steel, mild up to 3/4", 4130 up to 1/4" on 14" bandsaws sloweddown to correct metal cutting speeds...So they'll do it. What kind of blade are you running? Mine are generally around14 tpi, maybe less. How slow have you got it to run with your jack shaft? I'll go double check mine,but it's pretty slow. It's a triple gear reduction. Doing it with pulleysis generally pretty tough. It's a VERY small pulley running a LARGE pulley,a couple of times.I suspect your blade is going to fast. I imagine my wheels are going somewherearound 60 rpm at the fastest. My 20" saw goes around 30 rpm.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I've cut a LOT of steel, mild up to 3/4", 4130 up to 1/4" on 14" bandsaws sloweddown to correct metal cutting speeds...So they'll do it. What kind of blade are you running? Mine are generally around14 tpi, maybe less. How slow have you got it to run with your jack shaft? I'll go double check mine,but it's pretty slow. It's a triple gear reduction. Doing it with pulleysis generally pretty tough. It's a VERY small pulley running a LARGE pulley,a couple of times.I suspect your blade is going to fast. I imagine my wheels are going somewherearound 60 rpm at the fastest. My 20" saw goes around 30 rpm.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
I've used ,from harbor freight aerospace tools, a cheap assed metal cutting bandsaw.When you lift the blade sassy to the vertical position, you will see theadjustable guide rollers that support the blade.fabricate a small table to attachto that Assy. Now you have something resembling a larger table saw withthe additional and intended use as a metal cutting bandsaw Mine is made for cutting up to a 4 " diameter pipe or whatever quite thework horse for a hundred bucks. Keep the blade speed down to keep it cool useno oil cause it clogs the blade. Sent from my iPhone> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:12 PM, "Clif Dawson" wrote:> > Make a table for better control.> This one, along with a 5" vise, is mounted atop a> restaurant table base. It can be rolled around the> same as a55 gal drumor barrel. With one foot on> it it's solid. Make the table hieght the same as the> top of the vise jaws.> Although these pics aren't great I'm sure guys-> who-build-Piets can figure it out.
> > Clif> It matters not what things have been.> It only matters what they become.> > >> >> I find my 4 1/2 angle grider with cutoff disc works great. I have a second grinderwith a sanding disc to clean up edges. Many fittings can be made by firstbuying strip steel of correct width to reduce cuts needed.>> Paul Donahue> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
I've used ,from harbor freight aerospace tools, a cheap assed metal cutting bandsaw.When you lift the blade sassy to the vertical position, you will see theadjustable guide rollers that support the blade.fabricate a small table to attachto that Assy. Now you have something resembling a larger table saw withthe additional and intended use as a metal cutting bandsaw Mine is made for cutting up to a 4 " diameter pipe or whatever quite thework horse for a hundred bucks. Keep the blade speed down to keep it cool useno oil cause it clogs the blade. Sent from my iPhone> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:12 PM, "Clif Dawson" wrote:> > Make a table for better control.> This one, along with a 5" vise, is mounted atop a> restaurant table base. It can be rolled around the> same as a55 gal drumor barrel. With one foot on> it it's solid. Make the table hieght the same as the> top of the vise jaws.> Although these pics aren't great I'm sure guys-> who-build-Piets can figure it out.
> > Clif> It matters not what things have been.> It only matters what they become.> > >> >> I find my 4 1/2 angle grider with cutoff disc works great. I have a second grinderwith a sanding disc to clean up edges. Many fittings can be made by firstbuying strip steel of correct width to reduce cuts needed.>> Paul Donahue> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130Pietenpol-List: Re: Gardiner's C-85
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
It's all about your cutting speed, which is referred to in surface feet per minute.Wood band saws are usually way up there around 1500-2500 SFPM. That willsmoke a blade immediately as soon as you touch steel. In order to cut 4130you really need to be in the 80-120 SFPM range. Many folks do this by mountinga jack shaft but it's probably going to surprise you just how big of a pulleyis going to be needed to slow it down. You'll need to do some math and figureyour circumferences on your pulleys. If you want, you can give me your currentRPM and your pulley diameters and I can figure out for you what your SFPMis. I could then tell you what you would need for a pulley.As far as teeth per inch (TPI) goes, you always want to engage at least 2 teethin your material. Otherwise you can chip a tooth off. Once you do this thenext tooth easily chips off, then the next, the next, and soon you have a wholestrip of teeth missing. Just speakin' from frustrated experience...Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gardiner's C-85
It's all about your cutting speed, which is referred to in surface feet per minute.Wood band saws are usually way up there around 1500-2500 SFPM. That willsmoke a blade immediately as soon as you touch steel. In order to cut 4130you really need to be in the 80-120 SFPM range. Many folks do this by mountinga jack shaft but it's probably going to surprise you just how big of a pulleyis going to be needed to slow it down. You'll need to do some math and figureyour circumferences on your pulleys. If you want, you can give me your currentRPM and your pulley diameters and I can figure out for you what your SFPMis. I could then tell you what you would need for a pulley.As far as teeth per inch (TPI) goes, you always want to engage at least 2 teethin your material. Otherwise you can chip a tooth off. Once you do this thenext tooth easily chips off, then the next, the next, and soon you have a wholestrip of teeth missing. Just speakin' from frustrated experience...Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Gardiner's C-85
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Fred,Great to hear on some progress. Everyone that has ever built one of these hashad more important family and life obligations get in the way! Looking forwardto some pictures...Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Fred,Great to hear on some progress. Everyone that has ever built one of these hashad more important family and life obligations get in the way! Looking forwardto some pictures...Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Don is absolutely right about this. The blade speed needs to be about 80feet per minute (RPM of the pulleys is irrelevant - all the blade knows ishow fast it is going realtive to the work piece you are trying to cut). Don is also right about the number of teeth . For the thin stuff we cut Iprefer to get 32 teeth per inch blades, and even then cutting .032" 4130sheet like you use for the control horns you will chip a few teeth off.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Don is absolutely right about this. The blade speed needs to be about 80feet per minute (RPM of the pulleys is irrelevant - all the blade knows ishow fast it is going realtive to the work piece you are trying to cut). Don is also right about the number of teeth . For the thin stuff we cut Iprefer to get 32 teeth per inch blades, and even then cutting .032" 4130sheet like you use for the control horns you will chip a few teeth off.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Also besides all the other good advice. What is happening is when you cut4130 you have to keep cutting. Don't stop or the metal will get hot and CASEHARDEN. When it case hardens it will take all the teeth off the blade. Soslower is good but the main thing is keep cutting and don't pause. That'swhy we water jet cut. We have lost many blades but it can be done and westill do it sometimes.JerrySky Classic Aircraft-----Original Message-----
Also besides all the other good advice. What is happening is when you cut4130 you have to keep cutting. Don't stop or the metal will get hot and CASEHARDEN. When it case hardens it will take all the teeth off the blade. Soslower is good but the main thing is keep cutting and don't pause. That'swhy we water jet cut. We have lost many blades but it can be done and westill do it sometimes.JerrySky Classic Aircraft-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
It looks great! Then again, so does the green grass.John from cold Ohio.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
It looks great! Then again, so does the green grass.John from cold Ohio.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: aviken
I have one of the Harbor Fright metal cutting band saws too. My blade keeps jumping off though. What I use in real life is a Sears 12" wood cutting bandsaw slowed down with a 1 1/2 hp AC/DC motor with a speed controller. Very expensive motor I salvaged years ago from an old ice cream freezer. Sears sells metal cutting blades of 14 tpi to fit for about $15. If you have a Sears nearby you can pick one up and try it out. Some blades are better than others but you can get a blade quick and not be out much if it doesn't work. They don't last forever, but should make quite a few parts before they dull. If it does work your can order a more quality blade from other sources. Those "zipper" blades about 1/16" cut steel like a hot knife through butter, but I am not so confident about cutting 4130 due to localized heating. I may be worrying needlessly though and there are several engineers here who can steer you right on using them. They are available at Home Cheapo and Lowes and nearly anywhere else that sells tools.Dennis-----Original Message-----
I have one of the Harbor Fright metal cutting band saws too. My blade keeps jumping off though. What I use in real life is a Sears 12" wood cutting bandsaw slowed down with a 1 1/2 hp AC/DC motor with a speed controller. Very expensive motor I salvaged years ago from an old ice cream freezer. Sears sells metal cutting blades of 14 tpi to fit for about $15. If you have a Sears nearby you can pick one up and try it out. Some blades are better than others but you can get a blade quick and not be out much if it doesn't work. They don't last forever, but should make quite a few parts before they dull. If it does work your can order a more quality blade from other sources. Those "zipper" blades about 1/16" cut steel like a hot knife through butter, but I am not so confident about cutting 4130 due to localized heating. I may be worrying needlessly though and there are several engineers here who can steer you right on using them. They are available at Home Cheapo and Lowes and nearly anywhere else that sells tools.Dennis-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: shad bell
Here is my version of Glen's Harbor Freight portaband saw. With my 25% off couponand some scrap lumber and brackets I made my vertical saw for about 65 bucks.It ain't pretty but it has cut .125 thick steel plate. Just buy some metalcutting blades (the one that comes with is a WOOD cutting blade. Go figure), andgo slow, or the blade will jump off the track, so to speak.Jake Schultz's setup is a lot better than mine, but he is the one he gave me theidea.If you need more help visualizing how to make it, click on the link below-http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a- ... ----Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ______Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:48:52 -0800 (PST)
Here is my version of Glen's Harbor Freight portaband saw. With my 25% off couponand some scrap lumber and brackets I made my vertical saw for about 65 bucks.It ain't pretty but it has cut .125 thick steel plate. Just buy some metalcutting blades (the one that comes with is a WOOD cutting blade. Go figure), andgo slow, or the blade will jump off the track, so to speak.Jake Schultz's setup is a lot better than mine, but he is the one he gave me theidea.If you need more help visualizing how to make it, click on the link below-http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a- ... ----Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ______Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:48:52 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cobra Torches...
Original Posted By: "Pietflyer1977"
Reading through old issues of Sport Aviation Magazine, I came across this articlefrom the January 1990 issue. I have made a copy of the one page and postedit here. I don't think that the lawyers at EAA will shoot me for doing so, butI am giving them full credit for the ownership of the article. I wouldn't wantanyone to worry about me taking credit for someone else's work. The articlegives you a method for calculating the area of irregular shapes. I used it toget a ballpark idea of the size of my center section fuel tank. I took the template for my fuel tank and measured the side view (which is theairfoil shape between the front and rear spars), then multiplied that by theproposed width of the tank. I used a conservative figure of 20 inches. You thenhave the volume of your tank in cubic inches. Divide that number by 231 andyou should have a fair idea of the volume of your future fuel tank. my Tiger Moth-ish/DouweBlumberg-ish tank comes in at around 19 gallons and change.Hope that helps.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/shop ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cobra Torches...
Reading through old issues of Sport Aviation Magazine, I came across this articlefrom the January 1990 issue. I have made a copy of the one page and postedit here. I don't think that the lawyers at EAA will shoot me for doing so, butI am giving them full credit for the ownership of the article. I wouldn't wantanyone to worry about me taking credit for someone else's work. The articlegives you a method for calculating the area of irregular shapes. I used it toget a ballpark idea of the size of my center section fuel tank. I took the template for my fuel tank and measured the side view (which is theairfoil shape between the front and rear spars), then multiplied that by theproposed width of the tank. I used a conservative figure of 20 inches. You thenhave the volume of your tank in cubic inches. Divide that number by 231 andyou should have a fair idea of the volume of your future fuel tank. my Tiger Moth-ish/DouweBlumberg-ish tank comes in at around 19 gallons and change.Hope that helps.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/shop ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cobra Torches...
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: "aviken"
still looking into it.. not much interest so farjimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
still looking into it.. not much interest so farjimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: "tools"
Thanks for all the response to my question. I did some calculations this morningand was surprised . Even though I had slowed my band saw down with a doubleset of pulleys, I found it was no where near the 80 feet per minute needed.By putting a piece of masking tape on the blade and counting the revolutionsI determined I was way fast. A 93 inch blade is 7.7 feet long so it can makejust over 10 revs per minute. My speed was 46 revs. per minute. So I've gotwork to do. I have a small gear box that was used on a commercial bread kneadingmachine that I considered using at the start, but was concerned that itwould be too slow. I was probably wrong. I'll try it now. ThanksRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Thanks for all the response to my question. I did some calculations this morningand was surprised . Even though I had slowed my band saw down with a doubleset of pulleys, I found it was no where near the 80 feet per minute needed.By putting a piece of masking tape on the blade and counting the revolutionsI determined I was way fast. A 93 inch blade is 7.7 feet long so it can makejust over 10 revs per minute. My speed was 46 revs. per minute. So I've gotwork to do. I have a small gear box that was used on a commercial bread kneadingmachine that I considered using at the start, but was concerned that itwould be too slow. I was probably wrong. I'll try it now. ThanksRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cobra Torches...
Original Posted By: "tools"
Ya, it's tough to really slow the things down. It's along the lines of TWO setsof pulleys, 2" and 20"... or more shafts. A gear reducer makes quick work. You really can't be TOO slow. If it is, you'lljust need to feed slower. Not a big deal in a non production environment.BTW, with the HF style horiz/vert metal cutters, the blade jumping is usually aworn bushing on the main drive wheel shaft. Don't know why it's a bushing there,but it is. Easy to replace, nearly always fixes the problem.With the portabands, it's a matter of the thing flexing one of the wheels on it'sshaft, giving "jumping" geometry. If you can adjust the track, overcompensate(which wears the flange on the wheels quicker... that flange thickness ishow you determine the real wear on a metal cutter, the worn out saws have a verythin flange) and you can push a little harder. It doesn't hurt to take a small whetstone to the BACK of the blade. As it's spinning,hold the stone on the black of the blade to smooth it out a bit, and roundover the edges just a little. It'll prevent some wear on the saw, and canextend blade life. This is also a good idea on wood cutting blades.On a combo saw, spin the blade at wood speeds to do this easier.With lubricant, I've found in a non production setting no lube at all works prettygood. It seems total flooding, or nothing works best. SOME lube tends togum up everything. The swarf accumulating on the wheels under the blade canalso cause tracking and jumping problems. With 4130 lube probably does help more than other metals, so just be sure and stopand clean the saw more often to prevent other problems and fustrations.When you're cutting, try to keep an eye on the swarf pile. It needs to be steadilyaccumulating. If it's not, the blade is rubbing and not cutting well, probablyneed more pressure. If the saw is rapidly cranking through, probably needto reduce pressure so as not to break teeth.When you cut a tube, for example, the pressure required changes quite a bit asyou cut through. In other words, the feed rate shouldn't be constant, becausethe nature of the cut isn't constant. The "chip load" should be as constantas possible. This is the best user (during use) variable you have to preventlocalized work hardening. It's sort of intuitive on a vertical saw where the user does all the feeding. Not so obvious on a horiz saw where gravity (and springs and hydraulic cylinders)help regulate the cut.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cobra Torches...
Ya, it's tough to really slow the things down. It's along the lines of TWO setsof pulleys, 2" and 20"... or more shafts. A gear reducer makes quick work. You really can't be TOO slow. If it is, you'lljust need to feed slower. Not a big deal in a non production environment.BTW, with the HF style horiz/vert metal cutters, the blade jumping is usually aworn bushing on the main drive wheel shaft. Don't know why it's a bushing there,but it is. Easy to replace, nearly always fixes the problem.With the portabands, it's a matter of the thing flexing one of the wheels on it'sshaft, giving "jumping" geometry. If you can adjust the track, overcompensate(which wears the flange on the wheels quicker... that flange thickness ishow you determine the real wear on a metal cutter, the worn out saws have a verythin flange) and you can push a little harder. It doesn't hurt to take a small whetstone to the BACK of the blade. As it's spinning,hold the stone on the black of the blade to smooth it out a bit, and roundover the edges just a little. It'll prevent some wear on the saw, and canextend blade life. This is also a good idea on wood cutting blades.On a combo saw, spin the blade at wood speeds to do this easier.With lubricant, I've found in a non production setting no lube at all works prettygood. It seems total flooding, or nothing works best. SOME lube tends togum up everything. The swarf accumulating on the wheels under the blade canalso cause tracking and jumping problems. With 4130 lube probably does help more than other metals, so just be sure and stopand clean the saw more often to prevent other problems and fustrations.When you're cutting, try to keep an eye on the swarf pile. It needs to be steadilyaccumulating. If it's not, the blade is rubbing and not cutting well, probablyneed more pressure. If the saw is rapidly cranking through, probably needto reduce pressure so as not to break teeth.When you cut a tube, for example, the pressure required changes quite a bit asyou cut through. In other words, the feed rate shouldn't be constant, becausethe nature of the cut isn't constant. The "chip load" should be as constantas possible. This is the best user (during use) variable you have to preventlocalized work hardening. It's sort of intuitive on a vertical saw where the user does all the feeding. Not so obvious on a horiz saw where gravity (and springs and hydraulic cylinders)help regulate the cut.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cobra Torches...
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
These things are really controversial... However, I like mine. I haven't really figured out how to use them correctly though. Like everything,the demos are a bit misleading, but only in they make it seem easier than itis. However, they're CLEARLY doing it! And I really believe it'll do thingsa regular OA torch won't (though someone REALLY skilled could prove that wrongI suppose).Like all OA sets, super versatile. I did weld some 4130 once early on and madethe MOST BEAUTIFUL looking welds ever... then tried some testing on them. Turnedout there was NO PENETRATION at all. Really weird. So, while I also recommend them, I would also recommend really spending some timewith them until you really figure them out. Like ALL tools, they require skill.There's nothing magic about them. I think most of the naysayers are folkswho are good at OTHER OA torches and figure if they can't make these work,they're smoke and mirrors. When it's probably more a case of they just don'tknow how to make THESE torches work.They really are super nice guys who will do their level best to get you going.I also recommend good regulators that'll do well at lower levels. Like mostchinese stuff, it's a matter of hit and miss, and longevity. Good regulatorsout of the gate will most likely save a lot of frustration.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:18:56 -0800 (PST)
These things are really controversial... However, I like mine. I haven't really figured out how to use them correctly though. Like everything,the demos are a bit misleading, but only in they make it seem easier than itis. However, they're CLEARLY doing it! And I really believe it'll do thingsa regular OA torch won't (though someone REALLY skilled could prove that wrongI suppose).Like all OA sets, super versatile. I did weld some 4130 once early on and madethe MOST BEAUTIFUL looking welds ever... then tried some testing on them. Turnedout there was NO PENETRATION at all. Really weird. So, while I also recommend them, I would also recommend really spending some timewith them until you really figure them out. Like ALL tools, they require skill.There's nothing magic about them. I think most of the naysayers are folkswho are good at OTHER OA torches and figure if they can't make these work,they're smoke and mirrors. When it's probably more a case of they just don'tknow how to make THESE torches work.They really are super nice guys who will do their level best to get you going.I also recommend good regulators that'll do well at lower levels. Like mostchinese stuff, it's a matter of hit and miss, and longevity. Good regulatorsout of the gate will most likely save a lot of frustration.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:18:56 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cutting 4130
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
A special thanks to Jake Schultz for his setup. I did mine very similar to hisalso but without a new bed. Works great! Just 3 little strap steel brackets anda piece of wood.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... __________
A special thanks to Jake Schultz for his setup. I did mine very similar to hisalso but without a new bed. Works great! Just 3 little strap steel brackets anda piece of wood.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... __________