Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
Douwe,I admire your plane, your art and your thoughts. Let me add $.01 to the commentson people being persistent enough to finish a plane.To finish a plane, it is a requirement that a builder not listen to all the peoplewho tell him he will fail or is doing things wrong. In a 6 year build thismight mean ignoring several hundred people, mostly obviously playing the roleof 'Eeyore', but others who pose as' friendly' advisors. Ignore every one ofthem, keep working, and the plane will get done.Is this the definition of successful homebuilding? I say it isn't. Completing theplane isn't success, learning is. A guy who listens to no one learns nothingand often creates the poor flying hangar queen you mention. His completed planemight be a rarity, but the mindset of not being willing to consider anythingthat might evolve one's views is quite common today.My definition of success is the guy who finishes the plane, ignores the 98% ofthe people who are negative, but learns from 4 or 5 trusted advisors who get himto consider things that make his plane far better than it would have been.This guy not only has a good flying plane, has learned a lot, he also has trustedfriends and is in a position to share something. The actual rarity in societyis not the bullheaded man who will not stop, it is the man wise enough tolisten, examine evidence, and change his perspective if it improves what he ismaking.The biggest between a poor plane for sale on barnstormers with 2 hours on it anda great one sitting at Brodhead with 500 hours on the tach is mostly in themindset of the builder. Both planes are made of roughly the same quantity of wood,metal and fabric, and the likely took about the same effort to build. Thedifference is mostly in what the builder was willing to learn.The barnstormer plane, and the dozens like it that were never completed are nota good use of materials nor human time. They are not art either. If I want art,I can study and be moved by the work of Douwe or Felix de Weldon.-ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Pietenpol-List: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Original Posted By: "echobravo4"
Hello good Piet-ple,It was a LONG weekend in the shop and I thought I'd post a few photos of the progress.I am making the steel-tube Piet with the "improved" landing gear. I havejigged the axles and vee in place for the welder who will stop over on March21st. I had seen some photos of landing gear that were made with a somewhatdifferent cluster joint where the axle meets the vee. This allows me to use aconduit pipe to hold the axles in line while they are welded. I marked the locationof the "fishmouth" cutout, drilled a series of small holes, then cut betweenthe dots to remove the metal. I cleaned it up with an angle grinder untilthe axles fit.It was a long several days to get all these parts jigged and cut/fit - yet it'sa nice feeling of satisfaction now that this step has been completed.Hope you all are doing well......--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/land ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Hello good Piet-ple,It was a LONG weekend in the shop and I thought I'd post a few photos of the progress.I am making the steel-tube Piet with the "improved" landing gear. I havejigged the axles and vee in place for the welder who will stop over on March21st. I had seen some photos of landing gear that were made with a somewhatdifferent cluster joint where the axle meets the vee. This allows me to use aconduit pipe to hold the axles in line while they are welded. I marked the locationof the "fishmouth" cutout, drilled a series of small holes, then cut betweenthe dots to remove the metal. I cleaned it up with an angle grinder untilthe axles fit.It was a long several days to get all these parts jigged and cut/fit - yet it'sa nice feeling of satisfaction now that this step has been completed.Hope you all are doing well......--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/land ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Wow!Very nice work!--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Wow!Very nice work!--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Looks really nice, Jake Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Looks really nice, Jake Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
Jake,You have a very nice looking fuselage, it certainly will make for a stout plane.Your photos caught my eye because I have Terry Hand's fuselage in my hangargetting the same task done. Terry's fuselage looks to be a pretty close cloneof yours. It is hard to tell anything exact in a picture, but Terry's is a shortfuselage right out of the F&G manual.I wanted to point out that during the Weight and Balance project we took the exact axle location of each plane. Most builders had given little thought to axle location, combining 1930s axle location with modern powerful brakes. In the article series we spent some effort to show that BHP's planes with brakes moved the axle well forward, to within 1/2" of the leading edge. His only later comment was that 0 to 3" behind the leading edge with the plane level was a good range. If you would like to get copies of the info before finish welding, read: http://flycorvair.net/2014/03/08/pieten ... ce/Terry's plane came with a set of legs that would have put the axle 7.5" behind the leading edge. As he is planning on using 6x6 Cleveland hyd. drums off a Pacer, I opted to cut up the legs and scrap them, building new ones that moved the axle to BHP's recommended zone for Piets with brakes. Terry's gear is being finished with this kind of spring: http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/27/new-di ... -4-p-m/The data from the W&B project showed the reason why more Piets with strong brakesand aft axles don't end up on their backs: Many of the same planes have terribleaft CG conditions. At this point, your plane can easily have everythingcorrect, there isn't any reason to have it other than BHP intended.Although I have seen the plans work countless times, most welding detail designmanuals have better ways to attach the small thick wall tubes for the bolts tothe main tubes. Look at AC-43-13 and particularly the EAA book on welding. Theyinvolve a better load path into the main tube. Powerful brakes and paved runwaysput a load on the attachments not envisioned in 1930.-wwRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Jake,You have a very nice looking fuselage, it certainly will make for a stout plane.Your photos caught my eye because I have Terry Hand's fuselage in my hangargetting the same task done. Terry's fuselage looks to be a pretty close cloneof yours. It is hard to tell anything exact in a picture, but Terry's is a shortfuselage right out of the F&G manual.I wanted to point out that during the Weight and Balance project we took the exact axle location of each plane. Most builders had given little thought to axle location, combining 1930s axle location with modern powerful brakes. In the article series we spent some effort to show that BHP's planes with brakes moved the axle well forward, to within 1/2" of the leading edge. His only later comment was that 0 to 3" behind the leading edge with the plane level was a good range. If you would like to get copies of the info before finish welding, read: http://flycorvair.net/2014/03/08/pieten ... ce/Terry's plane came with a set of legs that would have put the axle 7.5" behind the leading edge. As he is planning on using 6x6 Cleveland hyd. drums off a Pacer, I opted to cut up the legs and scrap them, building new ones that moved the axle to BHP's recommended zone for Piets with brakes. Terry's gear is being finished with this kind of spring: http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/27/new-di ... -4-p-m/The data from the W&B project showed the reason why more Piets with strong brakesand aft axles don't end up on their backs: Many of the same planes have terribleaft CG conditions. At this point, your plane can easily have everythingcorrect, there isn't any reason to have it other than BHP intended.Although I have seen the plans work countless times, most welding detail designmanuals have better ways to attach the small thick wall tubes for the bolts tothe main tubes. Look at AC-43-13 and particularly the EAA book on welding. Theyinvolve a better load path into the main tube. Powerful brakes and paved runwaysput a load on the attachments not envisioned in 1930.-wwRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Thanks WW.... I met you briefly at OSH w/ Terry. He has been out to see my projectseveral times. I did move the axles 3 1/2 inches forward because of your w&barticles. Sure would not want to do that as a retrofit later. I plan to havea bracket at the base of the bee at the axle which I have seen versions of onother similar birds.Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some more research. I'd like my gear to be stout for any eventual "less than ideal" landings - ha!Thx.....--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:00:03 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear
Thanks WW.... I met you briefly at OSH w/ Terry. He has been out to see my projectseveral times. I did move the axles 3 1/2 inches forward because of your w&barticles. Sure would not want to do that as a retrofit later. I plan to havea bracket at the base of the bee at the axle which I have seen versions of onother similar birds.Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some more research. I'd like my gear to be stout for any eventual "less than ideal" landings - ha!Thx.....--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:00:03 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel-tube fuselage update - landing gear