Original Posted By: Michael Perez
I couldn't find a magneto conversion for my 134 jeep motor , so I have been convertinga omnix distributor base to match a slick mag. Actually I expected itto be harder than it was, but after cleaning out the innards of the dist, I foundit had a nice arm with two dowel pins in place to mount the disk that matchesthe magneto drive. Then I had to turn a sleeve that fit the distributorcase and also matches the magneto mounting ring. I plan to rivet the pieces ivemade together to keep them from shifting, then find a good aluminum tig welderto weld it all up. My engine is running smooth now with a totally worn out distributor and burntup points, so it should run great with a new mag .Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/magn ... ______Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2014 07:09:10 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Jeep Pietenpol motor/ magneto
Pietenpol-List: Re: Jeep Pietenpol motor/ magneto
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Builders,Here is a positive suggestion: All of you guys who would like to contribute yourdata to the W&B project should read the original articles to understand theformat we used, and then send your data to Ryan by email and let him process itin a way that allows your contribution to be read by a new guy as a continuationof the original data set.How we measured the length of a motor mount for example (firewall to prop flange)and how we spoke in terms of distance from firewall to LE rather than inchesof rake on the cabanes. Is a little different, but Ryan and I came to this fora reason after considering several systems. in most cases, you can take anyinfo set and put it in these terms with simple addition and subtraction. Theterminology that Ryan and I used comes into play, not when looking at one plane,but it is very useful when teaching a new builder how to alter a close exampleof a plane like his, to make his own plane suit his needs and goals. I thankguys in advance for contributing and putting it in the helpful format.A crucial element of our system is the computer algorithm (math formula) that Ryandeveloped that quickly spits out the maximum pilot weight that the plane cantake before getting to the 20" aft limit. This is very importiant, becauseif you are a 165 pound guy with a data set and your plane is flying at 18", itis very hard for a 215 pound new guy to eyeball that and tell if he builds aclone of the plane if he will be in CG. With Ryan's program, this is immediatelyknown. This is the single biggest reason for using the format.I did not want the project to be a one time deal. The concept that set data setcan get bigger is good. Perhaps the additions can be published in the same format,written up by Ryan for the newsletter? Ryan is friends with Mr. Hofman,so this should work smoothly. There are a lot of people who get the newsletterwho are not on this list, and the new contributions would expand the knowledgebase and assist builders way into the future in the newsletters. It is a goodfeeling to have contributed to something lasting, something that will help otherbuilders, many of whom you will never meet, but they will be thankful justthe same. -ww.--------------------------------------------This is the last post for a while, we are prepping 16 hours a day from here untilCorvair College #29, and then back to 10-12 a day until Brodhead. I hope tosee many of you there. Dan Weseman, the guy who designed and built the Corvairpowered Panther, on the cover of kitplanes last month, is my neighbor and saidhe is planning on bringing the plane back to Brodhead just as he did last year.I built the 3,000 cc Corvair in that plane, and you can see it flying aerobaticson youtube. He picked up 24 orders for planes since Oshkosh, and the planeand engine got rave reviews fro the editor of Kitplanes who flew it. It hasalso got a lot of coverage by the EAA, and will be featured in lots of publicationsthis year. One of the reasons why I want to have the plane at Brodheadis to get a shot of it with the last original, to connect the latest work withCorvairs to BHP, the man that started it. I would like it to be formation airto air. The Panther can do 165mph on the top, but with the flaps down it willfly slower than a Piet.Dan's Company SPA-LLC, which he tooled up to built the kit as a 100% made in NorthAmerica kit has been about 4 years in the making. He is not yet forty, buthas about $200,000 invested in the project, all his own family's money, noneborrowed. He purposely selected the Corvair as the best engine for the plane.It will take others, be it was designed around the Corvair. Everyone who has seenthe plane fly thinks it was a very smart move. I find it very ironic that experienced builders and industry people understandthe Corvair, but here, where people admire and build BHP airframe designed bythe man who started the entire world of flying Corvairs, there are still manypeople who openly question if the engine can even be made to work. -ww.-------------------------------------------------Over and out from Mr. NOAC........(nails on a chalkboard)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jeep Pietenpol motor/ magneto
Builders,Here is a positive suggestion: All of you guys who would like to contribute yourdata to the W&B project should read the original articles to understand theformat we used, and then send your data to Ryan by email and let him process itin a way that allows your contribution to be read by a new guy as a continuationof the original data set.How we measured the length of a motor mount for example (firewall to prop flange)and how we spoke in terms of distance from firewall to LE rather than inchesof rake on the cabanes. Is a little different, but Ryan and I came to this fora reason after considering several systems. in most cases, you can take anyinfo set and put it in these terms with simple addition and subtraction. Theterminology that Ryan and I used comes into play, not when looking at one plane,but it is very useful when teaching a new builder how to alter a close exampleof a plane like his, to make his own plane suit his needs and goals. I thankguys in advance for contributing and putting it in the helpful format.A crucial element of our system is the computer algorithm (math formula) that Ryandeveloped that quickly spits out the maximum pilot weight that the plane cantake before getting to the 20" aft limit. This is very importiant, becauseif you are a 165 pound guy with a data set and your plane is flying at 18", itis very hard for a 215 pound new guy to eyeball that and tell if he builds aclone of the plane if he will be in CG. With Ryan's program, this is immediatelyknown. This is the single biggest reason for using the format.I did not want the project to be a one time deal. The concept that set data setcan get bigger is good. Perhaps the additions can be published in the same format,written up by Ryan for the newsletter? Ryan is friends with Mr. Hofman,so this should work smoothly. There are a lot of people who get the newsletterwho are not on this list, and the new contributions would expand the knowledgebase and assist builders way into the future in the newsletters. It is a goodfeeling to have contributed to something lasting, something that will help otherbuilders, many of whom you will never meet, but they will be thankful justthe same. -ww.--------------------------------------------This is the last post for a while, we are prepping 16 hours a day from here untilCorvair College #29, and then back to 10-12 a day until Brodhead. I hope tosee many of you there. Dan Weseman, the guy who designed and built the Corvairpowered Panther, on the cover of kitplanes last month, is my neighbor and saidhe is planning on bringing the plane back to Brodhead just as he did last year.I built the 3,000 cc Corvair in that plane, and you can see it flying aerobaticson youtube. He picked up 24 orders for planes since Oshkosh, and the planeand engine got rave reviews fro the editor of Kitplanes who flew it. It hasalso got a lot of coverage by the EAA, and will be featured in lots of publicationsthis year. One of the reasons why I want to have the plane at Brodheadis to get a shot of it with the last original, to connect the latest work withCorvairs to BHP, the man that started it. I would like it to be formation airto air. The Panther can do 165mph on the top, but with the flaps down it willfly slower than a Piet.Dan's Company SPA-LLC, which he tooled up to built the kit as a 100% made in NorthAmerica kit has been about 4 years in the making. He is not yet forty, buthas about $200,000 invested in the project, all his own family's money, noneborrowed. He purposely selected the Corvair as the best engine for the plane.It will take others, be it was designed around the Corvair. Everyone who has seenthe plane fly thinks it was a very smart move. I find it very ironic that experienced builders and industry people understandthe Corvair, but here, where people admire and build BHP airframe designed bythe man who started the entire world of flying Corvairs, there are still manypeople who openly question if the engine can even be made to work. -ww.-------------------------------------------------Over and out from Mr. NOAC........(nails on a chalkboard)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jeep Pietenpol motor/ magneto
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
I know this is a simplistic question, but does the Jeep distributor turn the samedirection as the Slick mag?--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I know this is a simplistic question, but does the Jeep distributor turn the samedirection as the Slick mag?--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Jeep Pietenpol motor/ magneto
Original Posted By: "aviken"
As a lurker, and following along the weight and balance thread, it was interesting to enter different configurations as discussed over the last couple of days or so into your spreadsheet and then see the effect on where the CG ends up. Needed to be doing something constructive, like completing a cabinet making project, but I've just frittered away an hour playing with the spread sheet! Very interesting and educational! For example, moving the gear to the wing leading edge position changes the CG to almost it's most forward recommended location as a percentage of MAC. Likewise, moving the wing back 1 inch, moves the CG location dramatically forward to 31.56 of the MAC. This goes into my "keeper file" - Thanks, JackM. Haught On Mar 23, 2014, at 2:32 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:> Okay, Here is a spreadsheet that I developed to be able to compute weight & balance for a generic Pietenpol. It requires the plane be completed, but it can be used to determine when the wing has been moved back far enough. I have input the values from my Pietenpol, so you will need to just type over those values with the weights and measurement from your own airplane Input values are red, calculated values are blue.> > The procedure is pretty simple. All of the measurements are made using the firewall as the datum, so you can make most of the measurements with the tail on the ground, which is easier (and safer) than when the tail is supported on a stool or sawhorse. The only measurements that must be made with the plane in level flight attitude are the distance from the firewall to the wing leading edge, and the distance from the firewall to the main gear axle and tailwheel axle. For these three measurements you will need to use a plumb bob and a tape measure. Strive for accuracy, because small variations in distance can have a large effect.> > You will to measure the distance to the middle of the fuel tank(s) which must be estimated to some extent. You will also need to sit in the cockpit and make note of where your belt buckle is (the belt buckle is very close to the C.G. of a human body in a sitting position), then measure from there to the firewall. Same for the front seat passenger (you will be surprised how little a passenger affects the CG position). If you have a baggage compartment and/or a helmet box, measure from the firewall to the center of those spaces (or, if you really want to be conservative, measure to the back of each of those compartments to get worst case).> > You will need a good set of aircraft or race car scales. Bathroom scales are worse than useless ' most do not go up to 300 lbs and unless you have built your airplane exceedingly light, your main gear wheels will weigh over 300 lbs eac. Besides, bathroom scales are notoriously inaccurate ' particularly at the extremes of their range. While building mine I weighed it several times with digital electronic bathroom scales. My estimated weight turned out to be within 80 lbs of my finished weight on aircraft scales. You need better accuracy than that.> > Position the plane in level flight attitude on the scales after setting the tare to include the weight of any supports and chocks that are on the scales. Enter the data in the spreadsheet and then input weights for pilot, passenger, fuel and baggage. The spreadsheet will calculate the CG position with respect to the firewall, the CG position with respect to the wing leading edge, and the CG position as a percentage of Mean Aerodynamic Chord. You can play around a bit, inputting different weights to see what effect they have on the balance. You will have to do trial and error to find the max weight pilot that will keep the CG ahead of 20=94 aft of the leading edge ' I don=92t have the fancy algorithm that Ryan and William put in their program to determine this automatically.> > This spreadsheet is in Excel 2003, so unless your software is even older than mine, if you have Excel on your computer you should be able to use the spreadsheet.> > Good luck and don=92t hesitate to ask questions if it is not clear how to use it.> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jeep Pietenpol motor/ magneto
As a lurker, and following along the weight and balance thread, it was interesting to enter different configurations as discussed over the last couple of days or so into your spreadsheet and then see the effect on where the CG ends up. Needed to be doing something constructive, like completing a cabinet making project, but I've just frittered away an hour playing with the spread sheet! Very interesting and educational! For example, moving the gear to the wing leading edge position changes the CG to almost it's most forward recommended location as a percentage of MAC. Likewise, moving the wing back 1 inch, moves the CG location dramatically forward to 31.56 of the MAC. This goes into my "keeper file" - Thanks, JackM. Haught On Mar 23, 2014, at 2:32 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:> Okay, Here is a spreadsheet that I developed to be able to compute weight & balance for a generic Pietenpol. It requires the plane be completed, but it can be used to determine when the wing has been moved back far enough. I have input the values from my Pietenpol, so you will need to just type over those values with the weights and measurement from your own airplane Input values are red, calculated values are blue.> > The procedure is pretty simple. All of the measurements are made using the firewall as the datum, so you can make most of the measurements with the tail on the ground, which is easier (and safer) than when the tail is supported on a stool or sawhorse. The only measurements that must be made with the plane in level flight attitude are the distance from the firewall to the wing leading edge, and the distance from the firewall to the main gear axle and tailwheel axle. For these three measurements you will need to use a plumb bob and a tape measure. Strive for accuracy, because small variations in distance can have a large effect.> > You will to measure the distance to the middle of the fuel tank(s) which must be estimated to some extent. You will also need to sit in the cockpit and make note of where your belt buckle is (the belt buckle is very close to the C.G. of a human body in a sitting position), then measure from there to the firewall. Same for the front seat passenger (you will be surprised how little a passenger affects the CG position). If you have a baggage compartment and/or a helmet box, measure from the firewall to the center of those spaces (or, if you really want to be conservative, measure to the back of each of those compartments to get worst case).> > You will need a good set of aircraft or race car scales. Bathroom scales are worse than useless ' most do not go up to 300 lbs and unless you have built your airplane exceedingly light, your main gear wheels will weigh over 300 lbs eac. Besides, bathroom scales are notoriously inaccurate ' particularly at the extremes of their range. While building mine I weighed it several times with digital electronic bathroom scales. My estimated weight turned out to be within 80 lbs of my finished weight on aircraft scales. You need better accuracy than that.> > Position the plane in level flight attitude on the scales after setting the tare to include the weight of any supports and chocks that are on the scales. Enter the data in the spreadsheet and then input weights for pilot, passenger, fuel and baggage. The spreadsheet will calculate the CG position with respect to the firewall, the CG position with respect to the wing leading edge, and the CG position as a percentage of Mean Aerodynamic Chord. You can play around a bit, inputting different weights to see what effect they have on the balance. You will have to do trial and error to find the max weight pilot that will keep the CG ahead of 20=94 aft of the leading edge ' I don=92t have the fancy algorithm that Ryan and William put in their program to determine this automatically.> > This spreadsheet is in Excel 2003, so unless your software is even older than mine, if you have Excel on your computer you should be able to use the spreadsheet.> > Good luck and don=92t hesitate to ask questions if it is not clear how to use it.> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jeep Pietenpol motor/ magneto
Re: Pietenpol-List: widening jig
Original Posted By: Gardiner Mason
Yes fortunately I found this new mag on ebay . it turns the right direction andthough it is a slick mag it was made for military 4 cyl motors for generatorsand such. It would not be considered airworthy by the faa on a certified aircraft.But my bet is it is just as good as the certified mag, since it had tomeet mil spec.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: widening jig
Yes fortunately I found this new mag on ebay . it turns the right direction andthough it is a slick mag it was made for military 4 cyl motors for generatorsand such. It would not be considered airworthy by the faa on a certified aircraft.But my bet is it is just as good as the certified mag, since it had tomeet mil spec.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: widening jig
Pietenpol-List: Re: widening jig
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Hey Douwe, I have been paying with it all day and I have decided to try your way by loosing the jig and spreading the jig to where it will meet the firewall mounts. Then tack it into place while on the firewall then remove it to finish welding. My Tig guy says he can do this. Cheers, GardinerSent from my iPadOn Mar 23, 2014, at 10:25 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:> Hey Gardiner,> > You could add washers one by one to the jig until your mount tubes are correctly spaced, or close. Then tack the thing together and remove it from the jig. Bolt it onto the firewall and if you have to move some things around a bit, just cut the tacks. Once it=99s bolted on, re-tack and add lots of small tacks everywhere so it can=99t warp. You should then be able to finish the welds away from the firewall easily. you could then conceivably cover up the planes front-end with a welding blanket if you are tigging and do a lot of the welds at that end of the mount. Or just make put lots of tacks so it can=99t shift around and finish them off the plane.> > > If you=99re gas welding, you=99ll have to obviously be more careful about the plane, but a welding tarp should protect it.> > If you have a nose tank, or there=99s any fuel anywhere around, you shouldn=99t try this technique.> > Douwe> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: widening jig
Hey Douwe, I have been paying with it all day and I have decided to try your way by loosing the jig and spreading the jig to where it will meet the firewall mounts. Then tack it into place while on the firewall then remove it to finish welding. My Tig guy says he can do this. Cheers, GardinerSent from my iPadOn Mar 23, 2014, at 10:25 AM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:> Hey Gardiner,> > You could add washers one by one to the jig until your mount tubes are correctly spaced, or close. Then tack the thing together and remove it from the jig. Bolt it onto the firewall and if you have to move some things around a bit, just cut the tacks. Once it=99s bolted on, re-tack and add lots of small tacks everywhere so it can=99t warp. You should then be able to finish the welds away from the firewall easily. you could then conceivably cover up the planes front-end with a welding blanket if you are tigging and do a lot of the welds at that end of the mount. Or just make put lots of tacks so it can=99t shift around and finish them off the plane.> > > If you=99re gas welding, you=99ll have to obviously be more careful about the plane, but a welding tarp should protect it.> > If you have a nose tank, or there=99s any fuel anywhere around, you shouldn=99t try this technique.> > Douwe> > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: widening jig
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: widening jig
Original Posted By: Gardiner Mason
Gardiner,That sounds like it oughtta work. If you could, when you're done, just set itback to the standard width for the next guy.Good Luck!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: widening jig
Gardiner,That sounds like it oughtta work. If you could, when you're done, just set itback to the standard width for the next guy.Good Luck!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: widening jig
Re: Pietenpol-List: Motor mount fittings
Original Posted By: Keith
Don't worryDon. I am not going to alter the jig. GardinerSent from my iPadOn Mar 23, 2014, at 8:08 PM, "Don Emch" wrote:> > Gardiner,> > That sounds like it oughtta work. If you could, when you're done, just set itback to the standard width for the next guy.> > Good Luck!> > Don Emch> NX899DE> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 906#420906> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Motor mount fittings
Don't worryDon. I am not going to alter the jig. GardinerSent from my iPadOn Mar 23, 2014, at 8:08 PM, "Don Emch" wrote:> > Gardiner,> > That sounds like it oughtta work. If you could, when you're done, just set itback to the standard width for the next guy.> > Good Luck!> > Don Emch> NX899DE> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 906#420906> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Motor mount fittings