Original Posted By: Michael Weston
VGhpcyB3b3JrZWQgd2VsbCBmb3IgbXkgc3RyZWFtbGluZWQgc3RlZWwgbGlmdCBzdHJ1dHMuDQoNCk1pa2UgQy4NCg0KT2hpbw0KDQoNCg0KDQo________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead & Oshkosh 2014
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
I had intended to mention that the Aeronca does use an eye bolt through the main struts to secure the jury struts. The eye bolt does pass through a 3/16 ID tube that is welded through the strut. The Aeronca folks were pretty brave to do something that the Cub folks did not do! The bracket that Mike has drawn certainly makes attachment of the jury strut to the spar very easy and clean.Thanks,Ray KrauseBuilding SkyScout...slowlySent from my iPad> On Jun 30, 2014, at 2:22 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" wrote:> > This worked well for my streamlined steel lift struts.> > Mike C.> Ohio> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead & Oshkosh 2014
I had intended to mention that the Aeronca does use an eye bolt through the main struts to secure the jury struts. The eye bolt does pass through a 3/16 ID tube that is welded through the strut. The Aeronca folks were pretty brave to do something that the Cub folks did not do! The bracket that Mike has drawn certainly makes attachment of the jury strut to the spar very easy and clean.Thanks,Ray KrauseBuilding SkyScout...slowlySent from my iPad> On Jun 30, 2014, at 2:22 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" wrote:> > This worked well for my streamlined steel lift struts.> > Mike C.> Ohio> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead & Oshkosh 2014
Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: "AG"
Sure wish I could go with them. It would most certainly be fun. While you guysare all having fun I will be moving to a new hangar. My hangar partner of 19 yearsis selling his plane. Time to get my own but smaller hangar. Another timemaybe.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel
Sure wish I could go with them. It would most certainly be fun. While you guysare all having fun I will be moving to a new hangar. My hangar partner of 19 yearsis selling his plane. Time to get my own but smaller hangar. Another timemaybe.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Hello everybody - I am new to this board - although I have been reading it for quite some time. I have been wanting to build a Pietenpol for about 5-6 years now and finally -I have been able to start a few months ago. Currently I have the tail section built and I am in the process of joining thefuselage together. - I will try to post some pics soon.Anyway enough introduction - this is my first aircraft project and so I will probablybe asking for help often!...and now for my first question! I am thinking through what I want to do for a tail wheel - for those who modified the "plans" tail skid with coil spring - where did you getyour spring? What type of wheel did you use? I am thinking about the MATCO T-6 tail wheel with the plans built "A-frame/coilspring set-up"Has anyone used some non-Aircraft caster/wheel to build a "home-made" tail wheel?What is the advantage of using the "leaf" style spring/set-up?Any info/opinions would be welcome help to a newbie!Thanks,AndyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Hello everybody - I am new to this board - although I have been reading it for quite some time. I have been wanting to build a Pietenpol for about 5-6 years now and finally -I have been able to start a few months ago. Currently I have the tail section built and I am in the process of joining thefuselage together. - I will try to post some pics soon.Anyway enough introduction - this is my first aircraft project and so I will probablybe asking for help often!...and now for my first question! I am thinking through what I want to do for a tail wheel - for those who modified the "plans" tail skid with coil spring - where did you getyour spring? What type of wheel did you use? I am thinking about the MATCO T-6 tail wheel with the plans built "A-frame/coilspring set-up"Has anyone used some non-Aircraft caster/wheel to build a "home-made" tail wheel?What is the advantage of using the "leaf" style spring/set-up?Any info/opinions would be welcome help to a newbie!Thanks,AndyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: "AG"
Welcome and glad to hear that you are building. Where are you from? There are manygood folks on this list. Some may be near you.Back to your question. I think Gary Boothe has been down the path you are askingabout. He has flown his plane with both tail wheel scenarios you have mentioned.Gary, over to you now.BTW, I have a leaf spring on mine. Go to WWW.westcoastpiet.com. you will find alot of info there.Cheers--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Welcome and glad to hear that you are building. Where are you from? There are manygood folks on this list. Some may be near you.Back to your question. I think Gary Boothe has been down the path you are askingabout. He has flown his plane with both tail wheel scenarios you have mentioned.Gary, over to you now.BTW, I have a leaf spring on mine. Go to WWW.westcoastpiet.com. you will find alot of info there.Cheers--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: Michael Groah
I'm in the Milwaukee area (I will be flying out of Timmerman Field MWC when theship is complete) It's great to live in WI because we are less than 2hours drive from EAA and Brodhead- my brother and I camp out each year at both events! -Hopefully soon I won't be driving - but rather flying to these events!AndyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
I'm in the Milwaukee area (I will be flying out of Timmerman Field MWC when theship is complete) It's great to live in WI because we are less than 2hours drive from EAA and Brodhead- my brother and I camp out each year at both events! -Hopefully soon I won't be driving - but rather flying to these events!AndyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: "AG"
Welcome. I have the plans A frame with a Matco tail wheel. I really like it.It works very well. I did change from the pneumatic tire to a solid one becauseof several flat tires. The adaption was fairly simple. There are some picson westcoastpiet. Example :http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/WCP ... 12.JPGMike Groah414MVTulare CASent from my iPad> On Jun 30, 2014, at 7:58 PM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:> > > Welcome and glad to hear that you are building. Where are you from? There aremany good folks on this list. Some may be near you.> Back to your question. I think Gary Boothe has been down the path you are askingabout. He has flown his plane with both tail wheel scenarios you have mentioned.> Gary, over to you now.> > BTW, I have a leaf spring on mine. Go to WWW.westcoastpiet.com. you will finda lot of info there.> > Cheers> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 812#425812> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Welcome. I have the plans A frame with a Matco tail wheel. I really like it.It works very well. I did change from the pneumatic tire to a solid one becauseof several flat tires. The adaption was fairly simple. There are some picson westcoastpiet. Example :http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/WCP ... 12.JPGMike Groah414MVTulare CASent from my iPad> On Jun 30, 2014, at 7:58 PM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:> > > Welcome and glad to hear that you are building. Where are you from? There aremany good folks on this list. Some may be near you.> Back to your question. I think Gary Boothe has been down the path you are askingabout. He has flown his plane with both tail wheel scenarios you have mentioned.> Gary, over to you now.> > BTW, I have a leaf spring on mine. Go to WWW.westcoastpiet.com. you will finda lot of info there.> > Cheers> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 812#425812> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
That seems to be a nice set-up...Where are you guys getting the spring? AndyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
That seems to be a nice set-up...Where are you guys getting the spring? AndyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thank you, Scott! Let's hear it for Scott Liefeld [BIG applause]...Andy,Welcome to the best 4-6 years of your life!...or, as with some, the best 16years of your life!Yes, I have been down two roads when it comes to tail wheels. That's notthat unusual, either. There are builders here who share my experience...andthose who have experienced the inverse (going from leaf spring back toA-frame!). Simply put, there is nothing wrong with Mr. Pietenpol's A-framedesign. Mike Groah is a good example. His plans-built tail wheel gear sportsa Matco 4" pneumatic wheel...and functions perfectly. Kevin Purtee did as I,and abandoned his A-frame for a leaf spring and a 4" Matco tail wheel andliked the result. So far, I am ecstatic with mine! "Ecstatic"...was that toomuch emotion?My main gear is pretty narrow...about 52". My tail wheel was the smallexperimental one from ACS, with my own hand made swivel, ears, etc. Cablelinkage was provided from the rudder pedals, which had spring returns. Allthese things added to my early difficulties, and I drug wing tips 3different times, plus my 15,000 hr test pilot/instructor drug a wing tiponce! William Wynn says that, with my narrow gear, if I can fly the past 20+hrs and only drag 3 tips without ground looping, I could land a P51 with aflat tire! Well, we know that ain't true...but you get the point.I have a plan to widen the gear, which will happen this Winter, but I havechanged the tail wheel to a leaf spring and a Matco 4" solid wheel. Movingthe wheel that far back allowed me to hook directly to a rudder bar (seeattached). I have since tightened those springs. I can now drop in from 5'(not that I would ever do that...
), and the tail no longer wanders. Yes,"ecstatic" is the word I would use!>From what I have seen, making your own mounting device, using the plansdesign...those are not the issues. I could never tighten up my tail wheelcables because to do so would loosen the rudder cables. That was caused bythe spring returns that I have on the pedals. Other designs would work justfine.BTW...I think 6" is too big.Enjoy your dream and your planning...but, GET TO WORK!!Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Thank you, Scott! Let's hear it for Scott Liefeld [BIG applause]...Andy,Welcome to the best 4-6 years of your life!...or, as with some, the best 16years of your life!Yes, I have been down two roads when it comes to tail wheels. That's notthat unusual, either. There are builders here who share my experience...andthose who have experienced the inverse (going from leaf spring back toA-frame!). Simply put, there is nothing wrong with Mr. Pietenpol's A-framedesign. Mike Groah is a good example. His plans-built tail wheel gear sportsa Matco 4" pneumatic wheel...and functions perfectly. Kevin Purtee did as I,and abandoned his A-frame for a leaf spring and a 4" Matco tail wheel andliked the result. So far, I am ecstatic with mine! "Ecstatic"...was that toomuch emotion?My main gear is pretty narrow...about 52". My tail wheel was the smallexperimental one from ACS, with my own hand made swivel, ears, etc. Cablelinkage was provided from the rudder pedals, which had spring returns. Allthese things added to my early difficulties, and I drug wing tips 3different times, plus my 15,000 hr test pilot/instructor drug a wing tiponce! William Wynn says that, with my narrow gear, if I can fly the past 20+hrs and only drag 3 tips without ground looping, I could land a P51 with aflat tire! Well, we know that ain't true...but you get the point.I have a plan to widen the gear, which will happen this Winter, but I havechanged the tail wheel to a leaf spring and a Matco 4" solid wheel. Movingthe wheel that far back allowed me to hook directly to a rudder bar (seeattached). I have since tightened those springs. I can now drop in from 5'(not that I would ever do that...
), and the tail no longer wanders. Yes,"ecstatic" is the word I would use!>From what I have seen, making your own mounting device, using the plansdesign...those are not the issues. I could never tighten up my tail wheelcables because to do so would loosen the rudder cables. That was caused bythe spring returns that I have on the pedals. Other designs would work justfine.BTW...I think 6" is too big.Enjoy your dream and your planning...but, GET TO WORK!!Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
The bad news... this one question is gonna yield a dozen or so answers...The good news... this is EXACTLY the kind of thing you go to Brodhead to help youdecide what you wanna try!I've got a Matco, 4" solid, 2 leafs, cables directly from the rudder bar. Probablyabout as "modern standard" as it gets. My son and I both learned to flytailwheel with this setup. I like it alot. I have no experience with the moreauthentic A frame setup whatsoever. ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
The bad news... this one question is gonna yield a dozen or so answers...The good news... this is EXACTLY the kind of thing you go to Brodhead to help youdecide what you wanna try!I've got a Matco, 4" solid, 2 leafs, cables directly from the rudder bar. Probablyabout as "modern standard" as it gets. My son and I both learned to flytailwheel with this setup. I like it alot. I have no experience with the moreauthentic A frame setup whatsoever. ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
One point to keep in mind is the material of the struts.The Aeronca design, as illustrated by Mike, is used on steel struts. Welds insteel, when done properly, are as strong as the base metal.Aluminum, however, is a different story. Some alloys of aluminum are greatly affectedby welding. When Alloy 6061-T6 (which is the alloy that Carlson Strutsare made of) is welded, the base material loses its temper in the weld zone- effectively reducing the strength to approximately 25% of the original strength.This strength can be restored, through heat treating, but this is an expensiveprocess. Best to avoid welding 6061-T6 in any area where strength is aconcern.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
One point to keep in mind is the material of the struts.The Aeronca design, as illustrated by Mike, is used on steel struts. Welds insteel, when done properly, are as strong as the base metal.Aluminum, however, is a different story. Some alloys of aluminum are greatly affectedby welding. When Alloy 6061-T6 (which is the alloy that Carlson Strutsare made of) is welded, the base material loses its temper in the weld zone- effectively reducing the strength to approximately 25% of the original strength.This strength can be restored, through heat treating, but this is an expensiveprocess. Best to avoid welding 6061-T6 in any area where strength is aconcern.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Andy, I noticed nobody has answered your question as to where to get thecompression spring. I know many have used a spring from John Deere, butthey are very proud of their parts and charge accordingly. I used acompression spring from McMaster-Carr:http://www.mcmaster.com/#compression-springs/=snaoy4 . The one I used waspart number 96485K141. it is 6" long overall, with an outside diameter of1.93", a wire diameter of .25" and a spring constant of 116 lbs per inch.It costs $11.17 and works very well.Just to confuse you further, I originally had a 6" Scott tailwheel on a leafspring from a Piper PA-12. After a forced landing which caused agroundloop, the leaf spring was torn from the lower longerons, resulting insubstantial damage to the longerons - which is something to think about.Most leafsprings are designed to attach to welded steel tube fuselages. Youcan do it with wood, but the attach structure needs to be well thought out(mine obviously wasn't). During the rebuild, I changed to the A-Framedesign. The first one I built strictly to the plans. I found that it wastoo wimpy torsionally, and steering loads on the tailwheel (which thatdesign was never intended to withstand, since it was designed for a skidwith no steering loads) caused the whole A-Frame to twist. Here is apicture of the first A-Frame I built:Note that I had the tailwheel aft of the compression spring, which I'm sureexacerbated the twisting problems. I flew this assembly for about 4 hoursand then one day while taxiing for takeoff the tailwheel simply broke off asI turned around for my runup. Glad that didn't happen on landing!I rebuilt the tailwheel assembly using an A-Frame of heavier tubing, andwith a crossbar at the front, making it a rigid triangle. I also moved thetailwheel underneath the compression spring. This assembly has worked wellfor over 300 hours and many bad landings. It also uses the 4""Homebuilder's Special" tailwheel from ACS that is not entirelysatisfactory. It tends to go into free swivel very easily when turningleft, and is difficult to break into free swivel when turning right. Iprobably need to take it apart and make some adjustmentsGood luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols andPietenpeople!Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia-----Original Message-----
Andy, I noticed nobody has answered your question as to where to get thecompression spring. I know many have used a spring from John Deere, butthey are very proud of their parts and charge accordingly. I used acompression spring from McMaster-Carr:http://www.mcmaster.com/#compression-springs/=snaoy4 . The one I used waspart number 96485K141. it is 6" long overall, with an outside diameter of1.93", a wire diameter of .25" and a spring constant of 116 lbs per inch.It costs $11.17 and works very well.Just to confuse you further, I originally had a 6" Scott tailwheel on a leafspring from a Piper PA-12. After a forced landing which caused agroundloop, the leaf spring was torn from the lower longerons, resulting insubstantial damage to the longerons - which is something to think about.Most leafsprings are designed to attach to welded steel tube fuselages. Youcan do it with wood, but the attach structure needs to be well thought out(mine obviously wasn't). During the rebuild, I changed to the A-Framedesign. The first one I built strictly to the plans. I found that it wastoo wimpy torsionally, and steering loads on the tailwheel (which thatdesign was never intended to withstand, since it was designed for a skidwith no steering loads) caused the whole A-Frame to twist. Here is apicture of the first A-Frame I built:Note that I had the tailwheel aft of the compression spring, which I'm sureexacerbated the twisting problems. I flew this assembly for about 4 hoursand then one day while taxiing for takeoff the tailwheel simply broke off asI turned around for my runup. Glad that didn't happen on landing!I rebuilt the tailwheel assembly using an A-Frame of heavier tubing, andwith a crossbar at the front, making it a rigid triangle. I also moved thetailwheel underneath the compression spring. This assembly has worked wellfor over 300 hours and many bad landings. It also uses the 4""Homebuilder's Special" tailwheel from ACS that is not entirelysatisfactory. It tends to go into free swivel very easily when turningleft, and is difficult to break into free swivel when turning right. Iprobably need to take it apart and make some adjustmentsGood luck, and welcome to the wonderful world of Pietenpols andPietenpeople!Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Smith Mountain Lake (W91), Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Bill,Thanks, great information. Bicycle frames are often made from 6061-T6 (many Raleighbikes that I sold in a past life). The welding was once done in the USA butis now all done in China. The welds are beautiful and the frames are heat treatedafter welding, as I remember. There are several ways of doing this, butI don't remember! Is one purging the frames with non-oxygen gas during welding?Seems like something the home builder should be able to do at home!Gary Booth put me in contact with a friend of his who had a supply of strut aeroaluminum in his hanger. I got enough for my SkyScout at a good price. GuessI will use straps for the jury strut attach points since my purge tanks are lowand the struts won't fit in my wife's oven!Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 1, 2014, at 4:58 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > > One point to keep in mind is the material of the struts.> The Aeronca design, as illustrated by Mike, is used on steel struts. Welds insteel, when done properly, are as strong as the base metal.> Aluminum, however, is a different story. Some alloys of aluminum are greatlyaffected by welding. When Alloy 6061-T6 (which is the alloy that Carlson Strutsare made of) is welded, the base material loses its temper in the weld zone- effectively reducing the strength to approximately 25% of the original strength.This strength can be restored, through heat treating, but this is an expensiveprocess. Best to avoid welding 6061-T6 in any area where strength isa concern.> > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 826#425826> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
Bill,Thanks, great information. Bicycle frames are often made from 6061-T6 (many Raleighbikes that I sold in a past life). The welding was once done in the USA butis now all done in China. The welds are beautiful and the frames are heat treatedafter welding, as I remember. There are several ways of doing this, butI don't remember! Is one purging the frames with non-oxygen gas during welding?Seems like something the home builder should be able to do at home!Gary Booth put me in contact with a friend of his who had a supply of strut aeroaluminum in his hanger. I got enough for my SkyScout at a good price. GuessI will use straps for the jury strut attach points since my purge tanks are lowand the struts won't fit in my wife's oven!Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 1, 2014, at 4:58 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > > One point to keep in mind is the material of the struts.> The Aeronca design, as illustrated by Mike, is used on steel struts. Welds insteel, when done properly, are as strong as the base metal.> Aluminum, however, is a different story. Some alloys of aluminum are greatlyaffected by welding. When Alloy 6061-T6 (which is the alloy that Carlson Strutsare made of) is welded, the base material loses its temper in the weld zone- effectively reducing the strength to approximately 25% of the original strength.This strength can be restored, through heat treating, but this is an expensiveprocess. Best to avoid welding 6061-T6 in any area where strength isa concern.> > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 826#425826> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Ray,No, unfortunately it isn't as simple as purging.Effectively, when 6061-T6 gets welded, the metal in the weld zone loses all ofits tempering, and goes back to the annealed state (T-zero).In order to return to T6 temper, the weldment will need to be solution heat treated,and then artificially aged. Solution heat treatment involves carefullyheating the weldment in an oven to a pretty high temperature, around 980F (toohot and the aluminum just melts), and held for about an hour, then quickly cooled,by quenching. Once returned to room temperature, the aluminum is againheated, and held at a set temperature for a specified time. For aging, the temperaturesare in the range of typical kitchen ovens ( 325 - 400F). When youstick a toothpick in, and it comes out dry, you're done. (just kidding about thetoothpick test).So, I doubt that any homebuilder is going to be up to the task of re-temperingaluminum lift struts after welding. For those using aluminum struts, fabricatinga few strap fittings would be a much less daunting task Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Ray,No, unfortunately it isn't as simple as purging.Effectively, when 6061-T6 gets welded, the metal in the weld zone loses all ofits tempering, and goes back to the annealed state (T-zero).In order to return to T6 temper, the weldment will need to be solution heat treated,and then artificially aged. Solution heat treatment involves carefullyheating the weldment in an oven to a pretty high temperature, around 980F (toohot and the aluminum just melts), and held for about an hour, then quickly cooled,by quenching. Once returned to room temperature, the aluminum is againheated, and held at a set temperature for a specified time. For aging, the temperaturesare in the range of typical kitchen ovens ( 325 - 400F). When youstick a toothpick in, and it comes out dry, you're done. (just kidding about thetoothpick test).So, I doubt that any homebuilder is going to be up to the task of re-temperingaluminum lift struts after welding. For those using aluminum struts, fabricatinga few strap fittings would be a much less daunting task Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Gary,You are very welcome.
The bus I threw you under looked like a small one fromwhere I was standing, But, perhaps it was further down the street and biggerthan I thought when I glanced at it. Hope you just got bruised a little and didn'tget any broken bones. Just the devil inside me I guess, Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Gary,You are very welcome.
The bus I threw you under looked like a small one fromwhere I was standing, But, perhaps it was further down the street and biggerthan I thought when I glanced at it. Hope you just got bruised a little and didn'tget any broken bones. Just the devil inside me I guess, Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
It was no problem, Scott! Re-telling the story helps to remind me of thetravelled road...a road I am very fortunate to be on!!Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
It was no problem, Scott! Re-telling the story helps to remind me of thetravelled road...a road I am very fortunate to be on!!Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Wow - this board is great - Thanks for all the info!and - here's another question. I have heard some opinions that connecting the tail wheel directly to the rudderwill put too much stress on the rudder.I got some drawings from Bill Rewey for a set-up which runs a separate set of cablesfrom the tail wheel up to just behind the pilot's seat and then connectsthem there with split-bolt connectors to the main rudder cables.Obviously you guys are flying with the direct connection - any problems with that?ThanksAndyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Wow - this board is great - Thanks for all the info!and - here's another question. I have heard some opinions that connecting the tail wheel directly to the rudderwill put too much stress on the rudder.I got some drawings from Bill Rewey for a set-up which runs a separate set of cablesfrom the tail wheel up to just behind the pilot's seat and then connectsthem there with split-bolt connectors to the main rudder cables.Obviously you guys are flying with the direct connection - any problems with that?ThanksAndyRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail wheel
Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Andy,Pay no attention to the way mine is hooked up. I have a steel tube fuse and tailfeathers. Totally different than most all other piets.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Andy,Pay no attention to the way mine is hooked up. I have a steel tube fuse and tailfeathers. Totally different than most all other piets.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Thanks, Bill. I wonder how a bicycle mfg could afford to do all that? There isno that much profit in a $300.00 bike! Maybe if you are set up for it and canhandle large volumes, that would do it. I'm sorry to hear you lost your wife. That almost happened to me last year, soI understand.Thanks for taking the time to explain all that.Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 1, 2014, at 10:19 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > > Ray,> No, unfortunately it isn't as simple as purging.> Effectively, when 6061-T6 gets welded, the metal in the weld zone loses all ofits tempering, and goes back to the annealed state (T-zero).> In order to return to T6 temper, the weldment will need to be solution heat treated,and then artificially aged. Solution heat treatment involves carefullyheating the weldment in an oven to a pretty high temperature, around 980F (toohot and the aluminum just melts), and held for about an hour, then quicklycooled, by quenching. Once returned to room temperature, the aluminum is againheated, and held at a set temperature for a specified time. For aging, thetemperatures are in the range of typical kitchen ovens ( 325 - 400F). When youstick a toothpick in, and it comes out dry, you're done. (just kidding aboutthe toothpick test).> So, I doubt that any homebuilder is going to be up to the task of re-temperingaluminum lift struts after welding. For those using aluminum struts, fabricatinga few strap fittings would be a much less daunting task > > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 859#425859> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
Thanks, Bill. I wonder how a bicycle mfg could afford to do all that? There isno that much profit in a $300.00 bike! Maybe if you are set up for it and canhandle large volumes, that would do it. I'm sorry to hear you lost your wife. That almost happened to me last year, soI understand.Thanks for taking the time to explain all that.Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 1, 2014, at 10:19 AM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > > Ray,> No, unfortunately it isn't as simple as purging.> Effectively, when 6061-T6 gets welded, the metal in the weld zone loses all ofits tempering, and goes back to the annealed state (T-zero).> In order to return to T6 temper, the weldment will need to be solution heat treated,and then artificially aged. Solution heat treatment involves carefullyheating the weldment in an oven to a pretty high temperature, around 980F (toohot and the aluminum just melts), and held for about an hour, then quicklycooled, by quenching. Once returned to room temperature, the aluminum is againheated, and held at a set temperature for a specified time. For aging, thetemperatures are in the range of typical kitchen ovens ( 325 - 400F). When youstick a toothpick in, and it comes out dry, you're done. (just kidding aboutthe toothpick test).> So, I doubt that any homebuilder is going to be up to the task of re-temperingaluminum lift struts after welding. For those using aluminum struts, fabricatinga few strap fittings would be a much less daunting task > > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 859#425859> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel tube jury strut idea, ala Aeronca Champ
Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel steering
Original Posted By: Douwe
Yikes, Ray.I didn't lose my wife. Haven't even misplaced her.I think maybe you've got me mixed up with Chuck Campbell. I believe he recentlymentioned his wife's passing.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel steering
Yikes, Ray.I didn't lose my wife. Haven't even misplaced her.I think maybe you've got me mixed up with Chuck Campbell. I believe he recentlymentioned his wife's passing.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel steering
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
AndyI personally like a separate set of cables to steer the tailwheel and have beenhappy with it. I set it up just like bill rewey did.One often overlooked issue is steering ratio. To avoid an overly squirrelly steeringresponse the wheel should turn the same ratio (or even less IMHO) thanthe rudder. This requires the wheel steering horns be the same length as on therudder I used a 3" wheel to keep weight down and everyone told me it wouldn't have steeringauthority and it would wear out real quick but it's working great. I justbought ten at the same time thinking I'd change it each season and haven'tchanged it after about 75hrsI just don't think we really need these big honkin' wheels back there$.02DouweSent from my iPhone________________________________________________________________________________
AndyI personally like a separate set of cables to steer the tailwheel and have beenhappy with it. I set it up just like bill rewey did.One often overlooked issue is steering ratio. To avoid an overly squirrelly steeringresponse the wheel should turn the same ratio (or even less IMHO) thanthe rudder. This requires the wheel steering horns be the same length as on therudder I used a 3" wheel to keep weight down and everyone told me it wouldn't have steeringauthority and it would wear out real quick but it's working great. I justbought ten at the same time thinking I'd change it each season and haven'tchanged it after about 75hrsI just don't think we really need these big honkin' wheels back there$.02DouweSent from my iPhone________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel steering
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
Ray-I spliced in (nicopress sleeve) a separate set of cables like Bill Rewey, Douwe, & others have done to the rudder controlcables just under the pilot seat and they have worked very well over the years.Be sure to follow the guidelines that Tony Bingelis outlines in his Sportplane Builder series of books on the proper selection andinstallation of aircraft cables and pullies and especially pulley guard safety straps/wires when installling these cables (and all other cables as well)and you'll have many years of worry-free and trouble-free flying.Mike C.Ohio[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CF95D2.D41A2DF0]-----Original Message-----
Ray-I spliced in (nicopress sleeve) a separate set of cables like Bill Rewey, Douwe, & others have done to the rudder controlcables just under the pilot seat and they have worked very well over the years.Be sure to follow the guidelines that Tony Bingelis outlines in his Sportplane Builder series of books on the proper selection andinstallation of aircraft cables and pullies and especially pulley guard safety straps/wires when installling these cables (and all other cables as well)and you'll have many years of worry-free and trouble-free flying.Mike C.Ohio[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CF95D2.D41A2DF0]-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel steering
Original Posted By: santiago morete
Re: Pietenpol-List: ###4th FLIGHT###
Original Posted By: Michael Groah
Just a short clip of what's going on. I took everybody suggestions.....I twisted the tail, added a shim and still nochange. Terrible stick pressure to keep the nose up.Re-checked weight and balance and yes it is forward at 15.9"I bought two lead shot bags at 25 lbs each and that's the next step is to put onealong side of the driver and see if it make s a change, one at a time.On a funny note, im the only guy with a nose heavy Pietenpol!! should have builtthe long fuse version! http://youtu.be/o02X2V7F4VM--------NX321LRNow test flying!!Mitsubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ###4th FLIGHT###
Just a short clip of what's going on. I took everybody suggestions.....I twisted the tail, added a shim and still nochange. Terrible stick pressure to keep the nose up.Re-checked weight and balance and yes it is forward at 15.9"I bought two lead shot bags at 25 lbs each and that's the next step is to put onealong side of the driver and see if it make s a change, one at a time.On a funny note, im the only guy with a nose heavy Pietenpol!! should have builtthe long fuse version! http://youtu.be/o02X2V7F4VM--------NX321LRNow test flying!!Mitsubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ###4th FLIGHT###
Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Oops, sorry! Guess I will attribute that to old age! My age gets me out of a lotof jams. I apologize to both you and Chuck.Regretfully,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:55 PM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > > Yikes, Ray.> I didn't lose my wife. Haven't even misplaced her.> > I think maybe you've got me mixed up with Chuck Campbell. I believe he recentlymentioned his wife's passing.> > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 897#425897> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###
Oops, sorry! Guess I will attribute that to old age! My age gets me out of a lotof jams. I apologize to both you and Chuck.Regretfully,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 1, 2014, at 8:55 PM, "Bill Church" wrote:> > > Yikes, Ray.> I didn't lose my wife. Haven't even misplaced her.> > I think maybe you've got me mixed up with Chuck Campbell. I believe he recentlymentioned his wife's passing.> > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 897#425897> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ###4th FLIGHT###