Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Marv-what you see below is as much info as I have on Steve's airplane and what all happened. I'm sure in time he'll let us know what's happened. I have been following Steveand Peter along on their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id ... ref=tsDear Friends,Peter Griffiths and I began our cross-country adventure with high hopes of showing off our chapter airplane at Brodhead and Oshkosh, and very much looked forward to flying our airplane off of a grass strip at the spiritual home of the Pietenpol Air Camper. Sadly, the Piet was only able to make it as far as Guymon, Oklahoma. Peter began experiencing engine trouble on the flight from Tucumcari, New Mexico to Guymon. Peter kept the airplane flying as far as Guymon, but the airplane was damaged on landing making it impossible for the airplane to continue any further. The decision was made to leave the airplane at Guymon and continue on with our plans to attend the gathering at Brodhead and Oshkosh traveling by car. We will pick up the airplane on the return trip and bring it home via U-Haul truck or trailer.The airplane flew more than 1,200 miles over three days. We were having a great time, getting some great pictures, and meeting some great people. Peter and I are taking the disappointment in stride and continuing to enjoy the experience of a lifetime.We will have a little work to do when we return, but the airplane will be flying again soon. Thank you to all who have taken an interest in following our adventure via email or Facebook. And thanks to those who offered their encouragement as we began this exciting adventure.See you all when we return.Steve Williamson, Pres.EAA Chapter 1279French Valley________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steve Williamson California-to-Wisconsin trip cutshort b
Pietenpol-List: Re: Steve Williamson California-to-Wisconsin trip cut
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!
Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
I'm sure Steve and Peter will tell their story at Brodhead. Otherwise I thinkthey would have just loaded up and went home. Please give them the space andtime to talk about it without being provoked. We all hate it when our planesdisagree with our personal agendas.Respectfully Requested,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!
I'm sure Steve and Peter will tell their story at Brodhead. Otherwise I thinkthey would have just loaded up and went home. Please give them the space andtime to talk about it without being provoked. We all hate it when our planesdisagree with our personal agendas.Respectfully Requested,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!
Pietenpol-List: Re: Steve Williamson California-to-Wisconsin trip cut
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Ah, well, then you'll have about 1.5" of play to take *out* of the rear lift strut fork and 11/16" out of the aileron cable turnbuckles. Still not a small amount IMO. -- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.comOn Jul 24, 2014, at 7:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> Hello Dan. I see/hear what you are saying. However, my cabane adjustment, if I make it, would be to lower the rear two. Considering that my wings are currently level, or maybe slightly "sagging", (no adjustments/tweaking have been made as of yet) and only the back cabanes would be lowered, (11/16") if nothing else, I'll have some dihedral and/ or washout. Since I have allowed room for adjustment on various components for rigging/squaring, etc. I believe if I did change the rear cabanes, it would be a non event.> > If God is your co-pilot, switch seats> Mike Perez> Karetaker Aero> First engine start complete!> > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steve Williamson California-to-Wisconsin trip cutshort b
Ah, well, then you'll have about 1.5" of play to take *out* of the rear lift strut fork and 11/16" out of the aileron cable turnbuckles. Still not a small amount IMO. -- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.comOn Jul 24, 2014, at 7:55 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> Hello Dan. I see/hear what you are saying. However, my cabane adjustment, if I make it, would be to lower the rear two. Considering that my wings are currently level, or maybe slightly "sagging", (no adjustments/tweaking have been made as of yet) and only the back cabanes would be lowered, (11/16") if nothing else, I'll have some dihedral and/ or washout. Since I have allowed room for adjustment on various components for rigging/squaring, etc. I believe if I did change the rear cabanes, it would be a non event.> > If God is your co-pilot, switch seats> Mike Perez> Karetaker Aero> First engine start complete!> > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steve Williamson California-to-Wisconsin trip cutshort b
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Mike,I received the same email from Steve, funny how we read it differently and reacteddifferently.------------------------The two towns mentioned are about 150 miles apart by air, although Steve mentionsthe engine issue, his friend flew the plane to the intended destination, anddamaged the plane on landing. The way I read it, the landing issue that stoppedthe trip, not the engine issue. ------------------------------Since it also said they were still coming to Brodhead, I figured just like Scott,that they could just share what they knew in person when they got there, andthere wasn't any need to post a notification about it------------------------------I have seen the plane in person in California, and Scott has flown it, but bothof us would just rather hear directly from Steve about the event.-------------------------------Mike,If Steve really wanted his private email reposed on this public list beforehe got to Brodhead, he could have just put it here himself. Maybe you couldmake your next post about your personal W&B data.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 05:56:00 -0700
Mike,I received the same email from Steve, funny how we read it differently and reacteddifferently.------------------------The two towns mentioned are about 150 miles apart by air, although Steve mentionsthe engine issue, his friend flew the plane to the intended destination, anddamaged the plane on landing. The way I read it, the landing issue that stoppedthe trip, not the engine issue. ------------------------------Since it also said they were still coming to Brodhead, I figured just like Scott,that they could just share what they knew in person when they got there, andthere wasn't any need to post a notification about it------------------------------I have seen the plane in person in California, and Scott has flown it, but bothof us would just rather hear directly from Steve about the event.-------------------------------Mike,If Steve really wanted his private email reposed on this public list beforehe got to Brodhead, he could have just put it here himself. Maybe you couldmake your next post about your personal W&B data.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 05:56:00 -0700
RE: Pietenpol-List: Thinking Out Loud
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Michael, the short answer is "NO". The jury struts are there to preventbuckling of the lift struts under compressive loads, which can occur inturbulence or in a hard landing. Buckling has been fairly extensively studies, and the mathematician LeonhardEuler developed an equation which predicts buckling with remarkableaccuracy, assuming the materials are homogenous:F=frac{pi^2 EI}{(KL)^2}whereF= maximum or critical force (verticalload on column),E= modulus of elasticity ,I= area moment of inertia ,L= unsupported length of column,K= column effective length factor , whose valuedepends on the conditions of end support of the column, as follows. For both ends pinned (hinged, free to rotate), K= 1.0.For both ends fixed, K= 0.50.For one end fixed and the other end pinned, K= 0.699....For one end fixed and the other end free to move laterally, K= 2.0.K Lis the effective length of the column.Examination of this formula reveals the following interesting facts withregard to the load-bearing ability of slender columns.1. Elasticity andnot the compressive strength of the materials of the columndetermines the critical load.2. The critical load is directly proportional to the secondmoment of area of thecross section.3. The boundary conditions have a considerable effect on the criticalload of slender columns. The boundary conditions determine the mode ofbending and the distance between inflection points on the deflected column.The inflection points in the deflection shape of the column are the pointsat which the curvature of the column change sign and are also the points atwhich the internal bending moments are zero. The closer together theinflection points are, the higher the resulting capacity of the column.In order to safely do without jury struts, you would need stiffer material(steel is roughly 3 times stiffer than aluminum) and with a high secondmoment of area (which basically means it need to be wider in alldirections). A long slender piece like a lift strut doesn't have a verylarge critical force, or force required to initiate buckling.Even if your lift struts were solid aluminum, my guess (without runningthrough the calculations) is that you would find the critical force to be ina range that is easily imposed during turbulence or hard landings, where theforce is directly proportional to the negative G-loads imposed on theairplane.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Michael, the short answer is "NO". The jury struts are there to preventbuckling of the lift struts under compressive loads, which can occur inturbulence or in a hard landing. Buckling has been fairly extensively studies, and the mathematician LeonhardEuler developed an equation which predicts buckling with remarkableaccuracy, assuming the materials are homogenous:F=frac{pi^2 EI}{(KL)^2}whereF= maximum or critical force (verticalload on column),E= modulus of elasticity ,I= area moment of inertia ,L= unsupported length of column,K= column effective length factor , whose valuedepends on the conditions of end support of the column, as follows. For both ends pinned (hinged, free to rotate), K= 1.0.For both ends fixed, K= 0.50.For one end fixed and the other end pinned, K= 0.699....For one end fixed and the other end free to move laterally, K= 2.0.K Lis the effective length of the column.Examination of this formula reveals the following interesting facts withregard to the load-bearing ability of slender columns.1. Elasticity andnot the compressive strength of the materials of the columndetermines the critical load.2. The critical load is directly proportional to the secondmoment of area of thecross section.3. The boundary conditions have a considerable effect on the criticalload of slender columns. The boundary conditions determine the mode ofbending and the distance between inflection points on the deflected column.The inflection points in the deflection shape of the column are the pointsat which the curvature of the column change sign and are also the points atwhich the internal bending moments are zero. The closer together theinflection points are, the higher the resulting capacity of the column.In order to safely do without jury struts, you would need stiffer material(steel is roughly 3 times stiffer than aluminum) and with a high secondmoment of area (which basically means it need to be wider in alldirections). A long slender piece like a lift strut doesn't have a verylarge critical force, or force required to initiate buckling.Even if your lift struts were solid aluminum, my guess (without runningthrough the calculations) is that you would find the critical force to be ina range that is easily imposed during turbulence or hard landings, where theforce is directly proportional to the negative G-loads imposed on theairplane.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Pietenpol-List: Thinking Out Loud
Original Posted By: shad bell
Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett vs. Pietenpol wing cabane strut length: the
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
I am sure if Bernard were around today, he'd be messin' with this one in the noseof an AirCamper... INteresting article and new engine from Ford."Ford's first three-piston motor is a 1.0-liter turbocharged powerhouse with analuminum block the company says is small enough to fit on a sheet of letter paperor in a piece of carry-on luggage, with room to spare. ""Rated at 123 horsepower, it has just three more ponies than the Fiestas standard1.6-liter four-cylinder, but it comes with a big jump in tire-twisting torque.Its rated at 125 lb-ft vs. 112 lb-ft, while a turbo over boost delivers upto 148 lb-ft in 15-second bursts."Maybe that over boost would come in handy if you see you are undershooting therunway and need that little bit of extra Oomph when you hit the throttle!Here's the link to the whole article... I'm staying with a 6 cylinder Corvair!http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/07/ ... aturesRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:20:10 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett vs. Pietenpol wing cabane strut length: themath has already been done for you
I am sure if Bernard were around today, he'd be messin' with this one in the noseof an AirCamper... INteresting article and new engine from Ford."Ford's first three-piston motor is a 1.0-liter turbocharged powerhouse with analuminum block the company says is small enough to fit on a sheet of letter paperor in a piece of carry-on luggage, with room to spare. ""Rated at 123 horsepower, it has just three more ponies than the Fiestas standard1.6-liter four-cylinder, but it comes with a big jump in tire-twisting torque.Its rated at 125 lb-ft vs. 112 lb-ft, while a turbo over boost delivers upto 148 lb-ft in 15-second bursts."Maybe that over boost would come in handy if you see you are undershooting therunway and need that little bit of extra Oomph when you hit the throttle!Here's the link to the whole article... I'm staying with a 6 cylinder Corvair!http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/07/ ... aturesRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:20:10 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett vs. Pietenpol wing cabane strut length: themath has already been done for you