Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
You know, I really don't get all the recent complaining about this List. So theforum technology is a few years old - big deal. The airplane design is morethan 85 years old, and most people are able to build a perfectly good airplanefrom the plans. I really don't think that more up to date software would makeany real difference. I personally haven't experienced any frustration in searchingfor answers in the archives. Compare the convenience of accessing thisforum with the way things would have been done 20 years ago. Some may saythat paper newsletters are a thing of the past - well so are open cockpit woodenairplanes.Furthermore, let's keep in mind that this forum is presented without membershipfees, and yet is still free of advertising. The sole source of funding for theequipment and operating costs is through donations. Anyone may contributeto the discussion, whether they have contributed financially or not.And regarding newcomers posting questions that have been posted numerous timesin the past - this is to be expected. However, this can be an opportunity fornewer members, who often say that they feel that they have little to contribute(due to lack of personal experience,) to step in and provide the answers. There are no rules that say that all questions have to be answered by the "oldguard." Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: On the value of flying those still building (long)
Pietenpol-List: On the value of flying those still building (long)
RE: Pietenpol-List: On the value of flying those still building (long)
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Good post, William. Just goes to show that you never know how your actionscan touch another's life.I was there at Brodhead in 2000. I was about halfway through building myPietenpol and didn't know a soul there, but I remember seeing a bluePietenpol with a big spinner and aluminum cowl (did it have engine-turningon the cowling like the Spirit of St. Louis, or was I imagining that?)giving ride after ride.Those who complain today about the "Old Guard" (and I assume by now I'm oneof those) should have seen what it was like back in 2000. I saw very fewpeople there under the age of 80 (I've never seen so many oxygen bottlesbeing pulled around) and nearly everyone I talked with tried to discourageme doing anything other than the way Bernard had done it (I was specificallyasking about piano hinges on the ailerons, and how to do the elevator andrudder hinges). The only person I met who was friendly and open was BillRewey.I would have liked to stay and try to get a ride in that blue Pietenpol, butI was there with my soon to be ex-wife who didn't want to stay and talkairplanes (shocker).In years since then as I flew my Pietenpol there I've tried to be as open aspossible, although I usually don't give too many rides due to the fact thatmy Piet is heavy (745 lbs) and I will not take a passenger that weighs over180 lbs. I've always brought my builders log and scrapbook so I can showphotos that might help explain some particular part of the build process. I wonder if it might be useful for the BPA to give out hats or name badgesof a certain color to denote current builders (like the white hats they giveto people who fly a Pietenpol in) so everyone can make an extra effort toinclude them in conversation?Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Good post, William. Just goes to show that you never know how your actionscan touch another's life.I was there at Brodhead in 2000. I was about halfway through building myPietenpol and didn't know a soul there, but I remember seeing a bluePietenpol with a big spinner and aluminum cowl (did it have engine-turningon the cowling like the Spirit of St. Louis, or was I imagining that?)giving ride after ride.Those who complain today about the "Old Guard" (and I assume by now I'm oneof those) should have seen what it was like back in 2000. I saw very fewpeople there under the age of 80 (I've never seen so many oxygen bottlesbeing pulled around) and nearly everyone I talked with tried to discourageme doing anything other than the way Bernard had done it (I was specificallyasking about piano hinges on the ailerons, and how to do the elevator andrudder hinges). The only person I met who was friendly and open was BillRewey.I would have liked to stay and try to get a ride in that blue Pietenpol, butI was there with my soon to be ex-wife who didn't want to stay and talkairplanes (shocker).In years since then as I flew my Pietenpol there I've tried to be as open aspossible, although I usually don't give too many rides due to the fact thatmy Piet is heavy (745 lbs) and I will not take a passenger that weighs over180 lbs. I've always brought my builders log and scrapbook so I can showphotos that might help explain some particular part of the build process. I wonder if it might be useful for the BPA to give out hats or name badgesof a certain color to denote current builders (like the white hats they giveto people who fly a Pietenpol in) so everyone can make an extra effort toinclude them in conversation?Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: On the value of flying those still building (long)
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: MIG or TIG?
Original Posted By: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Jack,I thought about your observations today as I was working in the hangar. Bringsto mind the effect of the newsletter tone. You are not alone in feeling that outgoingand positive people did not hold center stage in the 1990s. There wereplenty of exceptions, as you note Bill Rewey, but the tone was different, andI contend that this had its origins in the 1990s newsletter editing.First something nice; Grant McLaren made a good looking newsletter, and many peopleliked it, and he did it for a long time and got a lot of material out there.On the other side of the Coin, he was not any kind of a builder nor aviator,and he was relentlessly a Ford car guy. There were few technical articles,and in the absence of personal experience he fell back on "build it accordingto plans" (which is a very good starting point, but it should not end the discussion.)He didn't like Gregas, but he didn't know any of the technical differences.He was not an inclusive guy, he would have been just fine if Pietenpoldevelopment ended in the 1930s.For my 2 cents, Doc and Dee struck the right balance on the editorial line, andDoc holding both the FAA master Pilot rating and the Charles Taylor award meanthe always had a personal understanding of anything that passed through thenewsletter, even if he never blew his own horn about it. Doc brought out the term"Snowflakes" to describe the individual nature of the planes builders create,and why it was good to welcome them all. After several years of Doc and Dee, their editorial line filtered into buildersperspectives and it effected a sea change in the tone of the community. I likedthis, but I assume that there were people who were nostalgic for Grant's position.Through every cycle of the community, there will be people who perceivethe same period very differently. but I never have any doubt that Piets andbuilding them will be here for the 100th, 110th 120th anniversaries of the design.It will outlive us all, and I am happy about that.Note to Bill Church: Your points on the other topic about flyers deciding for themselvesif flying people is the right thing to do are very well stated and Iagree 100%. It is a serious personal choice with a lot of issues, and there aremany valid reasons not to. The setting at Colleges I was speaking of are differentthan Brodhead, primarily because colleges are 100% builders. At Brodhead,it is a mixture of builders and spectators, and I personally don't like takingspectators "for a ride" because I don't think they gain much from it, andThey certainly don't understand the risk, even if you brief them. It can be hardto sort out who is who. Over the years maybe 350 people flew in our Piet /601XL / Wagabond. 80 or 90% of these people flew with our friends Arnold Holmesor Gus Warren, simply because they are better pilots than I, and good riskmanagement says most skilled guy available is PIC, especially if the passengeris a non-aviator. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: MIG or TIG?
Jack,I thought about your observations today as I was working in the hangar. Bringsto mind the effect of the newsletter tone. You are not alone in feeling that outgoingand positive people did not hold center stage in the 1990s. There wereplenty of exceptions, as you note Bill Rewey, but the tone was different, andI contend that this had its origins in the 1990s newsletter editing.First something nice; Grant McLaren made a good looking newsletter, and many peopleliked it, and he did it for a long time and got a lot of material out there.On the other side of the Coin, he was not any kind of a builder nor aviator,and he was relentlessly a Ford car guy. There were few technical articles,and in the absence of personal experience he fell back on "build it accordingto plans" (which is a very good starting point, but it should not end the discussion.)He didn't like Gregas, but he didn't know any of the technical differences.He was not an inclusive guy, he would have been just fine if Pietenpoldevelopment ended in the 1930s.For my 2 cents, Doc and Dee struck the right balance on the editorial line, andDoc holding both the FAA master Pilot rating and the Charles Taylor award meanthe always had a personal understanding of anything that passed through thenewsletter, even if he never blew his own horn about it. Doc brought out the term"Snowflakes" to describe the individual nature of the planes builders create,and why it was good to welcome them all. After several years of Doc and Dee, their editorial line filtered into buildersperspectives and it effected a sea change in the tone of the community. I likedthis, but I assume that there were people who were nostalgic for Grant's position.Through every cycle of the community, there will be people who perceivethe same period very differently. but I never have any doubt that Piets andbuilding them will be here for the 100th, 110th 120th anniversaries of the design.It will outlive us all, and I am happy about that.Note to Bill Church: Your points on the other topic about flyers deciding for themselvesif flying people is the right thing to do are very well stated and Iagree 100%. It is a serious personal choice with a lot of issues, and there aremany valid reasons not to. The setting at Colleges I was speaking of are differentthan Brodhead, primarily because colleges are 100% builders. At Brodhead,it is a mixture of builders and spectators, and I personally don't like takingspectators "for a ride" because I don't think they gain much from it, andThey certainly don't understand the risk, even if you brief them. It can be hardto sort out who is who. Over the years maybe 350 people flew in our Piet /601XL / Wagabond. 80 or 90% of these people flew with our friends Arnold Holmesor Gus Warren, simply because they are better pilots than I, and good riskmanagement says most skilled guy available is PIC, especially if the passengeris a non-aviator. -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: MIG or TIG?
Original Posted By:> aerocarjake
Why not Mig? I've done lots of high quality mig welds. I've done collision repairfor 35yrs. With today's hss and hsla steel, precision welds are rather important.My repairs are expected to endure collision forces just as well as factory. I'm not trying to argue. I'm just curious why. Glen Pietenpol AerialSent from my iPhone> On Jan 20, 2015, at 7:33 PM, goffelectric(at)comcast.net wrote:> > > Yea, what William said. I didn't buy the tig to learn how to weld on my plane.My dad welds for a living and he always wanted his own tig so I paid for halfand he is doing the welding. I do waste a lot of gas making the scap metal pilebigger though, lots of fun!> > Keith> ----- Original Message -----
Why not Mig? I've done lots of high quality mig welds. I've done collision repairfor 35yrs. With today's hss and hsla steel, precision welds are rather important.My repairs are expected to endure collision forces just as well as factory. I'm not trying to argue. I'm just curious why. Glen Pietenpol AerialSent from my iPhone> On Jan 20, 2015, at 7:33 PM, goffelectric(at)comcast.net wrote:> > > Yea, what William said. I didn't buy the tig to learn how to weld on my plane.My dad welds for a living and he always wanted his own tig so I paid for halfand he is doing the welding. I do waste a lot of gas making the scap metal pilebigger though, lots of fun!> > Keith> ----- Original Message -----