Pietenpol-List: control and bracing cable

An archive of the Matronics Pietenpol Listserve.
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Pietenpol-List: control and bracing cable

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Well said William....!FYI, I am choosing to have my welds done professionally. I don't have to buy equipmentor learn that SKILL. I welded in high school but this would be totallydifferent. I'm building my Pietenpol for FUN - and screwing up welds on parts I have spenta great deal of time fabricating would end the fun for me real fast. ....butthat is just one viewpoint on the topic. It all depends on why you are building. Some people like to do it all and somefarm out some of the steps. There is no right or wrong way.... :-)--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 20:38:06 -0600Subject: Pietenpol-List: control and bracing cable
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet list and BPA slowly dying? (tools)

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet list and BPA slowly dying? (tools)
matronics
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Pietenpol-List: Re: control and bracing cable

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "tools"
Glen,The primary argument against it is that on small thin wall 4130 tubes, unless theoperator uses great care, there is the potential to produce unacceptably brittlewelds. They will pass most tests, but if you examine a crashed plane carefully,you can some times see a break in the structure right next to a weldedcluster, and because of this the airframe might not performe as we understandthat a gas or tig welded fuselage will in an accident.The brittleness is a byproduct of how fast the weld heats up, and how quickly itcools, in addition to the deposited filler wire having the potential to humpup and be thick right to the edge of the bead, and suddenly transition to thebasic tube diameter. It is a load concentration. A very skilled mig operatorcan get around these issues, if, the airframe is designed with favorable wallthickness tubes, and he produces beads that have more material in them ( but evenlydeposited), where the higher mass slows the rate if cooling by a criticalfew seconds.If you listen to it being done, the operators are repeatedly hitting the trigger(this is called pulsing, but it isn't the same as a pulser function on a tigwelder) If all of these factors are covered, it can be airworthy, but it isn'tlikely that new welders will do this, so mig is not a good idea for most homebuilders.-ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: control and bracing cable
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Pietenpol-List: Re: MIG or TIG?

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
I use scotchbrite pads with good effect. Learned that at the eaa. Dirty is normal,probably shouldn't be rusty though for reuse...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: MIG or TIG?
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Pietenpol-List: Re: MIG or TIG?

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Look at Everlast Welders (http://www.everlastgenerators.com/). Very good welders for the money, as good as Miller & the others plus more reasonable in cost. Lots of reviews on YouTube.I would say TIG, but gas and MIG have there place too. MIG has welded many aircraftso do not rule that out, not to mention that the Maule fuselage is MIG welded.No matter what you purchase, practice, practice, practice. Welding is more experiencethen skill.WF2--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: MIG or TIG?
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Pietenpol-List: Re: control and bracing cable

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
As politely as possible, a few differing perspectives on welding ideas:Evergreen welders are, in the opinion of many informed people, a marketing scam.Read the website: "sourced from global suppliers" - If you want a Chinese welder,go to harbor freight and by one. True story: Evergreens sales approach isbased on having lots of 'non stocking dealers' , a guy with a lot of brochureand a few samples, you order, he makes a cut and it is shipped to you. Theirwebsite states that anyone who wants to aggressively push their product is qualifiedto be a dealer, no welding experience required, nor is any repair or serviceexperience nor a brick and mortar store..A guy from our airport who should have known better, ordered one at Oshkosh. Hewas lured by chep price, but the promise of Miller quality. It arrives with shippingdamage to the housing. He calls to say, just send another housing. Theydon't want to do this, they only want to send a new welder and bill him forthe heavy shipment. With several other curious welders there, the box comes off,and the insides look a lot like the ones from harbor freight. It is loadedup and taken to the Blanding Blvd HF in Jacksonville, where the manager is known,and he allows a side by side comparison with the housings off. They undoubtablycame from the exact same assembly line, the only difference is the Evergreenis green, cost twice as much, and doesn't have the local HF store who wouldgladly warrantee their china welder. .I have owned most brands of electric welders, but 90% of my work has been donewith Lincoln. This said, no fair person with experience will tell you that anyother welder is as good as a Miller, period. Calling a Chinese weldor as goodas a Miller is not a defendable statement. 100 endorsements of evergreen on youtubeare meaningless, they are a product of their dealers, As I said before,a skilled person could use a car battery and jumper cables and a 6011 rod toweld, but it isn't how a serious person learns. Go back to my point about havinga machine with 'micro-start', it is a vast improvement for beginners and skilledalike. My Lincoln 170 square wave didn't have it, and I welded 250 motormounts in 10 years with it. My 225 is a generation newer, and it does, and youdon't fully appreciate the difference until you try to go back and use the oldmachine, not for 5 minutes, but an 8 hour day. With the modern machine, I cango a week without sticking the tungsten. This is incredibly helpful to anyonewho must use reading glasses and has a specific focal range up close. .Welding is a Skill, and it is not practice. Ask any Coach or instructor the old adage "Practice makes Perfect" is pleasant puritan bullshit. The only thing practice makes in consistency. If a person does something incorrectly, and they practice it a lot, what happens is that they become very consistent at doing it wrong. There are plenty of 5,000 hr pilots who can't fly a power off approach, and plenty of people who have been welding for 25 years and do a consistently poor job. The awareness that there is a skill to learn, and the willingness to accept instruction makes the difference, not the practice. For a look at a rear welder, read the bottom of this: http://flycorvair.net/2014/10/26/shop-notes-102614/ ..To my Oxy loving friends: I am arguably the worst luddite caveman you know: I don'town a cell phone, I have a 29 year old truck with a Detroit 3-53 in it, Idrive a 49 year old Corvair, I use a 99 year old .30-06 with iron sights, andspent last evening reading an real paper copy of the September 1934 NationalGeographic with Anne Lindbergh's story of flying the Atlantic in .Tingmissartoq'.I have a very fine and well worn collection of old Victor gas torches, andI welded many, many fuselages with them. I resisted being a Tig owner for years.Today, I regard that as a poor choice, and wish I had bought one before 1994.-ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: control and bracing cable
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Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
I use to old Texas Tooth Brush. For the laymen out there. A Wire Brush. Cheers.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
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