Original Posted By: "tkreiner"
I'll have trips in the next couple weeks to Anderson, SC and Newton, NC and wonderif there are any Piet People in the area? Flying into/out of Charlotte.Jim in PryorRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Pietenpol-List: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Original Posted By: Jack
Oz,The math says building a Pietenpol is poor investment of one's money, While theheart says that it is an excellent investment in one's life. As you well know,you can figure out costs with a calculator, but the can not measure value, whichis best done with that organ in your chest..Consider that a $3,000 overhaul at 300 hrs is about twice the hourly amortizationrate of a Lycoming. which will cost four times as much but go eight times aslong, to say nothing about down time nor reliability..I have 3 close friends at our airport, Dan Weseman, Vern Stevenson and Alex Follen,who each flew hundreds of hours behind two stroke Rotaxes in the 1990s. Theyare all super mechanical guys, alert to fine signals of an issue, all intoextreme maintenance. They liked those engines, but I have to think that any twostroke engine is a poor match for a typical S-LSA buyer who might like flying,but has no real interest in nuts and bolts. Conversely, I think a big partof the success story of planes like J-3's was the fact the A-65 (or 75) on thefront of your Piet, required no such special attention when it was the "S-LSA"of it's day. .In 1946, almost every modest sized or larger airport in the US had a professional mechanic ready and skilled in the care and feeding of the A-65 for the "S-LSA" pilot of that day. Today, no such service system exists to support a non-mechanical flyer trying to operate a $40K plane with a two stroke Rotax power plant. (there isn't really one for the 912 either) Yes, there are plenty of people who have been through some 20-40 hour Rotax training session, but suggesting such a person is then qualified to determine what is airworthly on a human carrying aircraft is a morbid joke. My A&P from Embry-Riddle had an FAA mandated 2,880 classroom and lab hours. If I suggested to the department chair Dick Ulm, USMC ( http://flycorvair.net/2014/02/23/erau-m ... integrity/ ) that I was ready to work on planes at the end of my first week in the program, he would have laughed his ass off....and then probably punched my lights out. .Real Homebuilders, people in it to learn build and Fly, are immune to the vulnerabilitiesof typical S-LSA flyers, who are often just looking for another mechanicaltoy. Homebuilders are looking for freedom in all it's forms, and thisincludes educating oneself so you are free of being dependent on the availabilityand quality of maintenance professionals. The quote below is the core of thematter. Every few years they roll out a program to "get new people" interestedin flying. All of these programs that fail to acknowledge that the commitmentand motivation for success in aviation are higher, are bound to fail. Yetthey never stop trotting out the comparisons between the cost of S-LSA planesand new boats, as if the whole issue can be solved with a calculator, ignoringthe organ in the chest..------------------------------------------------.At any real level, flying is not a sport, a hobby a pastime nor entertainment.It is an Endeavor, worthy of every hour of your life you invest; Those that dabblein it find only high cost, poor reward and serious risk. They are approachingit as consumers. Conversely, for those who devote their best efforts andtheir serious commitment, the rewards are without compare.-ww.(From the 'thought for the day' http://flycorvair.net/2015/01/12/though ... ollection/)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Oz,The math says building a Pietenpol is poor investment of one's money, While theheart says that it is an excellent investment in one's life. As you well know,you can figure out costs with a calculator, but the can not measure value, whichis best done with that organ in your chest..Consider that a $3,000 overhaul at 300 hrs is about twice the hourly amortizationrate of a Lycoming. which will cost four times as much but go eight times aslong, to say nothing about down time nor reliability..I have 3 close friends at our airport, Dan Weseman, Vern Stevenson and Alex Follen,who each flew hundreds of hours behind two stroke Rotaxes in the 1990s. Theyare all super mechanical guys, alert to fine signals of an issue, all intoextreme maintenance. They liked those engines, but I have to think that any twostroke engine is a poor match for a typical S-LSA buyer who might like flying,but has no real interest in nuts and bolts. Conversely, I think a big partof the success story of planes like J-3's was the fact the A-65 (or 75) on thefront of your Piet, required no such special attention when it was the "S-LSA"of it's day. .In 1946, almost every modest sized or larger airport in the US had a professional mechanic ready and skilled in the care and feeding of the A-65 for the "S-LSA" pilot of that day. Today, no such service system exists to support a non-mechanical flyer trying to operate a $40K plane with a two stroke Rotax power plant. (there isn't really one for the 912 either) Yes, there are plenty of people who have been through some 20-40 hour Rotax training session, but suggesting such a person is then qualified to determine what is airworthly on a human carrying aircraft is a morbid joke. My A&P from Embry-Riddle had an FAA mandated 2,880 classroom and lab hours. If I suggested to the department chair Dick Ulm, USMC ( http://flycorvair.net/2014/02/23/erau-m ... integrity/ ) that I was ready to work on planes at the end of my first week in the program, he would have laughed his ass off....and then probably punched my lights out. .Real Homebuilders, people in it to learn build and Fly, are immune to the vulnerabilitiesof typical S-LSA flyers, who are often just looking for another mechanicaltoy. Homebuilders are looking for freedom in all it's forms, and thisincludes educating oneself so you are free of being dependent on the availabilityand quality of maintenance professionals. The quote below is the core of thematter. Every few years they roll out a program to "get new people" interestedin flying. All of these programs that fail to acknowledge that the commitmentand motivation for success in aviation are higher, are bound to fail. Yetthey never stop trotting out the comparisons between the cost of S-LSA planesand new boats, as if the whole issue can be solved with a calculator, ignoringthe organ in the chest..------------------------------------------------.At any real level, flying is not a sport, a hobby a pastime nor entertainment.It is an Endeavor, worthy of every hour of your life you invest; Those that dabblein it find only high cost, poor reward and serious risk. They are approachingit as consumers. Conversely, for those who devote their best efforts andtheir serious commitment, the rewards are without compare.-ww.(From the 'thought for the day' http://flycorvair.net/2015/01/12/though ... ollection/)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Tom it fits well. I'm putting a sump in mine so it hopefully will allow drainingin the three point attitude...Sent from my iPadJack Textor> On Feb 6, 2015, at 3:02 PM, "tkreiner" wrote:> > > A SE TX project plane is available, and for the right $$$, I might be interestedin getting it. Project has ribs, two sets of spars, steel tube fuse, anda box full of extra tubing, etc. The tank is a new, unused J3 Cub tank, and itstill has stickers on it...> > So, the question is: is anyone using a J3 Cub fuel tank in their Piet? If so,please let me know your experience, i.e., not enough fuel, just right, etc.,also, let me know whether it's a drop in, or requires a lot of work to use.> > Since I have a fuse, the steel tube fuse might become available.> > Thanks,> > --------> Tom Kreiner> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 121#438121> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Tom it fits well. I'm putting a sump in mine so it hopefully will allow drainingin the three point attitude...Sent from my iPadJack Textor> On Feb 6, 2015, at 3:02 PM, "tkreiner" wrote:> > > A SE TX project plane is available, and for the right $$$, I might be interestedin getting it. Project has ribs, two sets of spars, steel tube fuse, anda box full of extra tubing, etc. The tank is a new, unused J3 Cub tank, and itstill has stickers on it...> > So, the question is: is anyone using a J3 Cub fuel tank in their Piet? If so,please let me know your experience, i.e., not enough fuel, just right, etc.,also, let me know whether it's a drop in, or requires a lot of work to use.> > Since I have a fuse, the steel tube fuse might become available.> > Thanks,> > --------> Tom Kreiner> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 121#438121> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
That would be a "penzon" . penzon the engine you plan on installing. I did notbuild my GN-1, but had been flying it for 4 yrs now to BBQ's, Bfast, etc, andI'm liking the 12 gal Cub tank w/the A65. Just enough to stretch out and meetpeople at small aerodromes..I entertained the thought/logistics of adding a temporary 30 gallon tank to thefront seat and try to non-stop from Dallas-Brodhead, but not sure how I wouldadd oil while inflightjust a daydream I suppose..ler--------KLNCA65-8N2308CAN HardwareAirframe 724TTW72CK-42 SensenichStandard Factory GN-1Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
That would be a "penzon" . penzon the engine you plan on installing. I did notbuild my GN-1, but had been flying it for 4 yrs now to BBQ's, Bfast, etc, andI'm liking the 12 gal Cub tank w/the A65. Just enough to stretch out and meetpeople at small aerodromes..I entertained the thought/logistics of adding a temporary 30 gallon tank to thefront seat and try to non-stop from Dallas-Brodhead, but not sure how I wouldadd oil while inflightjust a daydream I suppose..ler--------KLNCA65-8N2308CAN HardwareAirframe 724TTW72CK-42 SensenichStandard Factory GN-1Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Last weekend, the aerial was officially started! All structural lumber is hemlockexcept the spars which will be Douglas fir. The reasons for this are many. Both of these species are locally sourced(oregonand Washington). Extreme quality is readily available at a fraction or whatSitka Spruce would cost thru ACS, or Wicks. Shipping costs are amazing aswell. Work benches wet completed last week end as well as ripping lots or really prettyHemlock for Longerons,vertical and brace pieces for both fuselage sides.Layout and kitting of both sides was completed as well. This weekend both sides wet glued and gusseted. It sure feels good to finallybe building again! Photos to follow. GlenSent from my iPhone________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2015 22:38:23 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Last weekend, the aerial was officially started! All structural lumber is hemlockexcept the spars which will be Douglas fir. The reasons for this are many. Both of these species are locally sourced(oregonand Washington). Extreme quality is readily available at a fraction or whatSitka Spruce would cost thru ACS, or Wicks. Shipping costs are amazing aswell. Work benches wet completed last week end as well as ripping lots or really prettyHemlock for Longerons,vertical and brace pieces for both fuselage sides.Layout and kitting of both sides was completed as well. This weekend both sides wet glued and gusseted. It sure feels good to finallybe building again! Photos to follow. GlenSent from my iPhone________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2015 22:38:23 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
My project is finally an embrio! The week end of the thirtieth of Jan.,workbencheswere built and one fuse side was laid out. This past weekend, I kitted the other fuse side, assembled one one Sat and theother side on Sun. The balance of the day was spent ripping cap strips forwing ribs. Most of the structural lumber is Hemlock. 7%heavier, slightly stronger anda whole lot less expensive,and if it matters to anyone, it's locally sourced.Doug Fir will be used for the spars, also locally sourced. For those who don't know, the Arial is a biplane adaptation of the aircamperdesigned by Chad Wille of St croix aviation My brother Dan has allowed me the use of a portion of his shop to build thisproject. Sure feels good to be building another airplane! GlenSent from my iPhone________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project
My project is finally an embrio! The week end of the thirtieth of Jan.,workbencheswere built and one fuse side was laid out. This past weekend, I kitted the other fuse side, assembled one one Sat and theother side on Sun. The balance of the day was spent ripping cap strips forwing ribs. Most of the structural lumber is Hemlock. 7%heavier, slightly stronger anda whole lot less expensive,and if it matters to anyone, it's locally sourced.Doug Fir will be used for the spars, also locally sourced. For those who don't know, the Arial is a biplane adaptation of the aircamperdesigned by Chad Wille of St croix aviation My brother Dan has allowed me the use of a portion of his shop to build thisproject. Sure feels good to be building another airplane! GlenSent from my iPhone________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cub Fuel Tank from project