Pietenpol-List: glue

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Tue Aug 24, 1999 10:46 pm

Original Posted By: ToySat(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glueI used Aerolite on the ribs. T-88 on everything else.Aerolite takes on slight "set" almost immediately, this works great whenworking with small gussets. T-88 remains slippery until it sets. Thats OK onlarger pieces that are easier to clamp but can be frustrating on smallgussets.Greg Cardinal>>> 08/25 1:56 PM >>>Hey everyone, I ordered the lumber for the fuselage a few weeks ago fromWICKS should be ready to pick up soon. this is a first time project anysuggestions on the best and easiest glue to use? thanks, Robert Bush________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Tue Aug 24, 1999 11:00 pm

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: glue>Hey everyone, I ordered the lumber for the fuselage a few weeks ago from>WICKS should be ready to pick up soon. this is a first time project any>suggestions on the best and easiest glue to use? thanks, Robert Bush>>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 1:45 am

Original Posted By: Greg Estrada
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glue>How much is T-88 yall n where can I get it.>>Steve>> writes:>> >Robert,>> > My Aircamper is my second project using T-88. First one is>> still flying>> >, and nothing blew off.>> >walt>>>> Robert, Walt.......My Air Camper is my first project and I also>> used T-88 with nothing blowing off yet either.>> PS- white vinegar on a paper towel will remove this sticky stuff>> from>> your hands too.....and leave you smelling like a cucumber salad

)>> Mike C.>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 11:33 am

Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
Robert,We used T-88 on our project and it appears to be quite popular. It ismixed in equal parts which makes it easy. It does run though and you needto be careful about drips and excess glue. We're very confident in itsstrength.John Langston>Hey everyone, I ordered the lumber for the fuselage a few weeks ago >from >WICKS should be ready to pick up soon. this is a first time project >any >suggestions on the best and easiest glue to use? thanks, Robert Bush > __________________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 2:56 pm

Original Posted By: awl942(at)webtv.net
Hey everyone, I ordered the lumber for the fuselage a few weeks ago from WICKS should be ready to pick up soon. this is a first time project any suggestions on the best and easiest glue to use? thanks, Robert Bush ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 4:18 pm

Original Posted By: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Robert, My Aircamper is my second project using T-88. First one is still flying, and nothing blew off.walt-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 4:26 pm

Original Posted By: Greg Estrada
>Robert,> My Aircamper is my second project using T-88. First one is still flying>, and nothing blew off.>waltRobert, Walt.......My Air Camper is my first project and I alsoused T-88 with nothing blowing off yet either. PS- white vinegar on a paper towel will remove this sticky stuff from your hands too.....and leave you smelling like a cucumber salad

)Mike C. Robert, My Aircamper is my second project usingT-88. First one is still flying, and nothing blew off.waltRobert, Walt.......My Air Camper is my first project and I alsoused T-88 with nothing blowing off yet either. PS- white vinegar on a paper towel will remove this sticky stuff fromyour hands too.....and leave you smelling like a cucumber salad

)Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 4:34 pm

Original Posted By: "donald r. brewer"
if you talk to 3 different people you'll get 3 different replys---me I usedaerolite on the entire fuselage and found it very easy to use and quitesatisfactory (the usaul tests and saving samples for future tests) I usedbaby food jars for mixing and found that any left over will last severalweeks if jar is kept sealed..just be sure to apply catalist to half thejoint.JoeCRBush96589(at)aol.com wrote:> Hey everyone, I ordered the lumber for the fuselage a few weeks ago from> WICKS should be ready to pick up soon. this is a first time project any> suggestions on the best and easiest glue to use? thanks, Robert Bush>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 4:35 pm

Original Posted By: fishin
robert bush,,, epoxy glue is my choice. i have used it on boats and plane=sfor many years. T-88 is very good, as is Epolite, they are a 1-1 mixture=with good filling properties. highly recommended,,,,,,, don brewer________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 4:41 pm

Original Posted By: walter evans
I used Aerolite on the ribs. T-88 on everything else.Aerolite takes on slight "set" almost immediately, this works great whenworking with small gussets. T-88 remains slippery until it sets. Thats OKon larger pieces that are easier to clamp but can be frustrating on smallgussets.Greg Cardinal>>> 08/25 1:56 PM >>>Hey everyone, I ordered the lumber for the fuselage a few weeks agofromWICKS should be ready to pick up soon. this is a first time project anysuggestions on the best and easiest glue to use? thanks, Robert Bush ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 4:47 pm

Original Posted By: John Weikel
from wicks--all the spruce and 1/8 mahogany ply===423.65 (shipping included)from Riteco --Australian hoop pine 1/4" , 1/8" & 1/16"==174.01(shippingincluded)JoeCZion, IllinoisGreg Estrada wrote:> I will be starting on my piet soon.May I ask what did the wood cost you for> the fuse?________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 5:23 pm

Original Posted By: Greg Cardinal
Love that T-88.John W-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 5:30 pm

Original Posted By: RBush96589(at)aol.com
Robt. Bush. Glue...West system________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 5:40 pm

Original Posted By: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
How much is T-88 yall n where can I get it.Steve writes:> >Robert,> > My Aircamper is my second project using T-88. First one is > still flying> >, and nothing blew off.> >walt> > Robert, Walt.......My Air Camper is my first project and I also> used T-88 with nothing blowing off yet either. > PS- white vinegar on a paper towel will remove this sticky stuff > from > your hands too.....and leave you smelling like a cucumber salad

)> Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 6:32 pm

Original Posted By: fishin
I will be starting on my piet soon.May I ask what did the wood cost you forthe fuse?________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Aug 25, 1999 7:22 pm

Original Posted By: vistin(at)juno.com
Steve, Fyant ,( if you want) you can get it at Aircraft Spruce, or any othersupplier. Get the qt. kit, which consists of two "ketchup squeeze bottles"that are handy to use . About $25.00walt-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 12:06 am

Original Posted By: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Here's another one...check into Tite-bond II. No mixing, available at hardware stores, inexpensive, strong, water-resistant (very). It's what I'm using. 'Course, I haven't flown mine yet....Don Cooley________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 2:19 am

Original Posted By: Greg Estrada
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: glueGary, I think you're correct. We checked to see if T-88 was certified foruse in a PT-19 project I'm helping with, and it wasn't. I built a TeamAirbike wing with the T-88, it's great stuff!!Robert Hensarlinghttp://www.mesquite-furniture.comrhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.comUvalde, Texas>>Is titebond II approved for aircraft use???>>>>Steve>>>>No but your plane is EXPERIMENTAL, remember?>>Some good glues (and materials) are not certified but used extensively in>aviation,>some are rare as the TPG (Taylor Paper Glass) remember the "paperairplane".>>I think the only certfied glue in USA is the Resorcinol, but I can bewrong.>>Saludos>>Gary Gower>>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 3:28 am

Original Posted By: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Robert,Use T-88 epoxy. It's a 50-50 mix (easy to measure) and it has a slightamber color so that areas saturated with glue won't look white under thevarnish. It is great to work with. You can get it from Wicks. Verysatisfying.Lauren________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 7:17 am

Original Posted By: Greg Yotz
Is titebond II approved for aircraft use???Steve> Here's another one...check into Tite-bond II. No mixing, available > at > hardware stores, inexpensive, strong, water-resistant (very). It's > what I'm > using. 'Course, I haven't flown mine yet....> > Don Cooley________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 2:54 pm

Original Posted By: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Piet fans,Tite-bond II was recommended by our chapter designee. I'll have to check into approvals.Don Cooley________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 4:24 pm

Original Posted By: DonanClara(at)aol.com
This discussion on glues is interesting, so I'll throw in my limited experience.I am currently building wood wings for a Wag-Aero Cuby, my first project. I started using T-88 because I read good things about it. Several people in my EAA chapter convinced me to use resorcinol instead, one of which is an FAA DAR who will be inspecting my plane when the time comes. He admitted though, he is personally more familiar with resorcinol than epoxy. He expressed concern over the longevity of epoxy when it is heated, say like in a dark colored plane setting in the sun. As many of you have said though, you have used it for years and it is still holding up.I found T-88 easy to use, but resorcinol has a longer pot life so I can mix up a larger batch while building ribs. Resorcinol is easy to use too, but it is a dark purple/brown color. Makes less than perfect glue globs really show up. Resorcinol can be purchased at many larger lumber yards too.I think either one is as easy to use as the other and both would perform equally well. Just depends on your preference and what your DAR says about it.Last year, I wrote Franklin Adhesives about using Titebond II in airplane construction. They quickly and very nicely responded and said they do not recommend Titebond II for aircraft use. Personally, I think is is a good glue and holds up extremely well even when unprotected in the weather (like my bird feeder-three years in the weather, glued with Titebond II). I would think it would be great for an experimental airplane, but have no personal experience using it for this application and would like to hear more about its use and approvals. I'll locate that letter in case any of you are interested in the "official" response from the manufacturer of Titebond II.Has anyone tried some of the "instant" CA adhesives for airplane building?Todd ChisumTulsa, OklahomaWag Aero Super Sport project (there's a Subaru powered Piet in my future)>Tite-bond II was recommended by our chapter designee. I'll have to check>into approvals.________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 4:40 pm

Original Posted By: MACKORELL(at)aol.com
Don...Re: Tite Bond...if you haven't already done so, please do some testing to satisfy yourself that it is really waterproof ( or highly water resistant) and that your test panels will always pull wood when you break them apart. I may have been living in a shell, but in over 50 years of building I have not heard of Tite Bond being used in aircraft. That sure doesn't mean that it can't be or isn't an acceptable substitiute for the several tried and true glues. Just don't take a chance until you have proven to yourself that it is at least equal to those. If you're new to building don't hesitate to get that old 'second opinion' Good luckDon Hicks________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 6:42 pm

Original Posted By: Gary Gower
>Here's another one...check into Tite-bond II. No mixing, available at >hardware stores, inexpensive, strong, water-resistant (very). It's what I'm >using. 'Course, I haven't flown mine yet....>>Don Cooley>>Great glue, I have some pieces outside (sun & rain) for 4 1/2 years andstill glued... I use it in my props.SaludosGary Gower________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 6:43 pm

Original Posted By: MACKORELL(at)aol.com
>Is titebond II approved for aircraft use???>>Steve>No but your plane is EXPERIMENTAL, remember?Some good glues (and materials) are not certified but used extensively inaviation,some are rare as the TPG (Taylor Paper Glass) remember the "paper airplane".I think the only certfied glue in USA is the Resorcinol, but I can be wrong.SaludosGary Gower________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 6:57 pm

Original Posted By: Replicraft(at)aol.com
(snip)>Last year, I wrote Franklin Adhesives about using Titebond II in airplane >construction. They quickly and very nicely responded and said they do not >recommend Titebond II for aircraft use. Personally, I think is is a good >glue and holds up extremely well even when unprotected in the weather (like >my bird feeder-three years in the weather, glued with Titebond II). I would >think it would be great for an experimental airplane, but have no personal >experience using it for this application and would like to hear more about >its use and approvals. I'll locate that letter in case any of you are >interested in the "official" response from the manufacturer of Titebond II.All manufacturers of something that YOU INTEND TO USE in aviation, will runaway from you as a mad dog! They dont want to get sued. Call all the "timing belts" manufacturers that are used in reductions unitsand they will not sell it to you if you say that is for "aircraft use". Usethe frase "is for an airboat" and they will show you the catalog.If you want certified glue, use Resorcinol. but be very carefull with thebonding surfaces. (been there, done that) We built a VP-1 with Resorcinol,I prefer Tite-Bond II hands off.SaludosGary Gower________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 7:09 pm

Original Posted By: ToySat(at)aol.com
Robert-All our Piet kits and any wood assembly we do, uses the Weldwood Plastic Resin glue. I have tried others, but I was most comfortable with the Weldwood. SteveReplicraft Aviation________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 8:18 pm

Original Posted By: Gary Gower
-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 10:43 pm

Original Posted By: BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
I consider Resorcinol to be something of a pain in the neck. It isaircraft certified but it requires high clamping pressure and issensitive to temperature. It has no gap filling capabilities and stainseverything purple. I used it for a little while years ago but gave it upquickly.Lauren________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Aug 26, 1999 11:01 pm

Original Posted By: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Weldwood Plastic Resin glue is great stuff to work with. I have built alot of boats using it. Last winter I got to restore a boat that I built30 years ago. This boat is built of douglas fir plywood with mahoganyand douglas fir framing it was fastened with bronze annular ring boatnails.I have had to redo every glue joint in the boat. The Plastic Resin gluehad totally failed. every bit of it had crystalized and separated fromthe wood. Granted, this boat had been out of doors it's whole life, mostof it afloat in salt water. In fact, when I pulled it into the hangerlast fall, I realized that that was the first time that it had EVER beenunder a roof, so it has had absolutely brutal treatment.I guess that it depends on what kind of protection you can give it andhow long you want it to last.Lauren________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sun Aug 29, 1999 8:22 am

Original Posted By: walter evans
--- Lauren Williams wrote:> Weldwood Plastic Resin glue is great stuff to work> with. Last winter I got to restore> a boat that I built> 30 years ago. This boat is built of douglas fir > I have had to redo every glue joint in the boat. The> Plastic Resin glue> had totally failed. every bit of it had crystalized> and separated from> the wood. > > I guess that it depends on what kind of protection> you can give it and> how long you want it to last.> > Lauren> I was at a forum about wood aircraft at OSH about 4 years ago and theman said that the urea-formaldahyde glues should no longer be used inaircraft. He was fromAustralia and they have found quite a few where the glue joints wereseparating after 20 to 30 years of service. They seemed to think thatthe heat had a lot to do with it. I also thought I heard a year agothat now the FAA has joined the Australians and British in forbiddingthese glues. Maybe someone has better or more recent info. John in Peoria> ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sun Aug 29, 1999 11:23 pm

Original Posted By: Alan Swanson
Plastic resin (urea-formaldehyde) glues are discussed in the latest versionof AC 43.13-1B, Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices, page 1-4: Plastic resin glue (urea-formalde-hyderesin glue) has been used in wood aircraftfor many years. Caution should be used due topossible rapid deterioration (more rapidly thanwood) of plastic resin glue in hot, moist envi-ronmentsand under cyclic swell-shrink stress.For these reasons, urea-formaldehyde shouldbe considered obsolete for all repairs. Anyproposed use of this type adhesive should bediscussed with the appropriate FAA officeprior to using on certificated aircraft. Aerolite glue is urea-formaldehyde. I scrapped half my ribs made with this,and started over with T-88. Aerolite has been used for years, but I knew ifI used it I would think about this paragraph everytime I flew the plane.T-88 works great, very pleased with its gap filling properties. There issome talk about epoxies softening at elevated temps, but they are very high,and airflow over the wing quickly cools it down. The softening is notcumulative as it is with Aerolite.Al Swanson>>>--- Lauren Williams wrote:>> Weldwood Plastic Resin glue is great stuff to work>> with. > Last winter I got to restore>> a boat that I built>> 30 years ago. This boat is built of douglas fir >> I have had to redo every glue joint in the boat. The>> Plastic Resin glue>> had totally failed. every bit of it had crystalized>> and separated from>> the wood. >> >> I guess that it depends on what kind of protection>> you can give it and>> how long you want it to last.>> >> Lauren>> >>>I was at a forum about wood aircraft at OSH about 4 years ago and the>man said that the urea-formaldahyde glues should no longer be used in>aircraft. He was from>Australia and they have found quite a few where the glue joints were>separating after 20 to 30 years of service. They seemed to think that>the heat had a lot to do with it. I also thought I heard a year ago>that now the FAA has joined the Australians and British in forbidding>these glues. Maybe someone has better or more recent info. >>John in Peoria>> >>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 1:21 pm

Original Posted By: "David Boyd"
Group -ALL RIGHT looks like it'll be T-88 for me (or maybe Titebond II).As far as the other choices, I went to Lowes and checked the selectionand read labels. Yellow glue (Elmers or Titebond) is a waterresistant version of the white glue (read: gradeschool paste snack).Elmers has a disclamer that it is not to be used for structuralpurposes. I wonder why they call it Construction Glue? Titebondsuggests that for structural exterior purposes, use Titebond II, it ispresumably waterproof. Of all those glues, that one is supposed to bethe best.The Gorilla Glue / Grizzly Glue / ProBond are all polyurethane basedglues. I have had some experience with them and they are neat. Theyreact with the humidity in the air whatever is being glued to cure andthey expand and fill joints. Although, there is a disclaimer printedon all of them not to be used below the waterline. If you use thisglue make sure you never get your glued parts wet (no problem, waterNEVER gets in a wing, right!?).Mark Boynton -Purchase two separate plastic syringes, one for the resign and one forthe hardener. Wicks has them for a couple of dollars.Robert HainesMurphysboro, Illinois________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 8:22 am

Original Posted By: Joe
I have a ready to cover all wood home built that was given to me 7 years agowhen a friend died. Great wood work, but I was not ready to do anythingwith it. hung it in the hanger. Been there for 7 years. one rope broke andwe brought it down. The builder had used regular Titebond. All the gussetswould fall off with a very slight tug from your finger. All the ply wouldcome off by using your finger nail. The only pieces that would stay on werethe ones nailed. It will have to be completely re-done. But it was a greatchance to see the effects of time , humidity and heat on the project. Thisis a great example of why you should use a quality approved glue and becomefamiliar with it and make very good glue joints as recommended. By the way,the AN hardware was all rusted. Giving reason to protect it to. Varnishinside drill holes, and inset bolts while varnish still wet. Not sure whatthe best thing to put on exposed portion of hardware to stop rust. Maybe acoat of varnish there as well.MerrillPiet -10% doneMt . Dora Fl________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:36:10 -0600

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jan 27, 2001 5:24 pm

Original Posted By: John Duprey

Brodhead Pietenpol Association