Original Posted By: Gary Gower
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars>>Richard,> I wouldn't use them. If they're new, see about getting a refund.>Otherwise, I'd just cut them up and use them for smaller parts. Spars>can be spliced, but it's not good to make more than one splice per spar.>Patching them or just putting a doubler on top of a crack is not a wise>thing to do.>>John Langston>Pipe Creek, TX>nle97(at)juno.com>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:21:00 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: "Domenico Bellissimo"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars>>Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about>12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did>with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it>safely?>>Richard>>>=====>Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/>My building progress:>http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm>>Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars>>Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about>12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did>with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it>safely?>>Richard>>>=====>Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/>My building progress:>http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm>>Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter??
Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
"Michael Brusilow" >>I just got in the mail a Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter (nicely>mangled by the post office, thank you very much). I don't remember this>even existing, let alone subscribing to it! It's a superbly done,>although very short, publication, and in color, no less! Even though I>didn't subscribe, the mailing label shows my subscription expired.>Hmmm... Is this the Buckeye newsletter revived? Who is doing it? How'd>I get a copy?>>Confused in Maine,>Richard>Hey Dick:The newsletter has an e-mail address. Try asking them.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________
"Michael Brusilow" >>I just got in the mail a Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter (nicely>mangled by the post office, thank you very much). I don't remember this>even existing, let alone subscribing to it! It's a superbly done,>although very short, publication, and in color, no less! Even though I>didn't subscribe, the mailing label shows my subscription expired.>Hmmm... Is this the Buckeye newsletter revived? Who is doing it? How'd>I get a copy?>>Confused in Maine,>Richard>Hey Dick:The newsletter has an e-mail address. Try asking them.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pietenpol Assn Newsletter??
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
this is the new BPA publication, not really a ressurected Buckeyepublication. I'm betting that Grant handed over what he had to the BrodheadPietenpol Association and that they are making good on their promise tostart a new publication using the newpaper co in Brodhead. When I was inBrodhead this summer they were handing out subscription cards ($10) and hada meeting to discuss the changes, but I didn't stick around to hear all thedetails. Maybe someone who did can fill in?Steve E.-----Original Message-----
this is the new BPA publication, not really a ressurected Buckeyepublication. I'm betting that Grant handed over what he had to the BrodheadPietenpol Association and that they are making good on their promise tostart a new publication using the newpaper co in Brodhead. When I was inBrodhead this summer they were handing out subscription cards ($10) and hada meeting to discuss the changes, but I didn't stick around to hear all thedetails. Maybe someone who did can fill in?Steve E.-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: Don Mosher
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars AirCamperpietenpol-list(at)matronics.comIn a message dated 9/25/00 5:45:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:>Might want to replace it and use the wood for other smaller parts. ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:52:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars AirCamperpietenpol-list(at)matronics.comIn a message dated 9/25/00 5:45:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, aircamper(at)yahoo.com writes:>Might want to replace it and use the wood for other smaller parts. ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:52:38 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: Gary Gower
Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: Phil Hopkins
Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Pietenpol-List Digest Server
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: cracked spars
Original Posted By: "Rodger & Betty Childs"
I would have to agree with Phil's assessment of the situation. I'velaminated split ends of boards before and they are as strong as the woodanywhere along it's length. I used a vacuum bag with a vacuum pump to drawglue into a joint and it seemed to fill completely. Of course the trick wasa vacuum pump with a high volume and a good seal on bag and wood.Greg>> >> >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about> >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did> >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it> >safely?> >> >Richard>> I see you've gotten some good advice from various perspectives on this,but> I thought I'd add my 2p as a long time woodworker, just for consideration> in yours and similar situations. It depends on what you mean by cracked,> but if you mean split in from the ends in line with the longitudinalgrain,> and if the spars are still free of the ribs and able to be worked on> easily, then simply gluing the split would result in at least equal> strength as an unsplit spar. (The same as a laminated spar) Properlyglued,> with the proper glue, the joint will be much stronger than the surrounding> wood. The trick is getting the glue into that last bit of split, sinceany> area of unglued split introduces a potential failure into the spar and> compromises strength. I would think that a very small area of unglued> split would be less concern than a scarf joint, which because of the angle> of joint introducing some end grain difficulties, is not a joint I trust a> great deal.>> At any rate, a traditional solution to small splits that have thepotential> to run is to drill a small hole, say 1/4" at the end of the split. This> does not weaken the wood in the area as long as there is sufficient wood> around the hole, and contains the split by absorbing the stress or tension> at the end of the split.>> Now I'm no engineer of any sort, and have only the most rudimentary ideaof> the kinds of stresses a spar is expected to take, but I'm thinking that a> small area of unglued split in the interior portion of the spar would beno> more problematic than an internal check that would go unseen and is> possibly there in any piece of wood we use in terms of the kind of loads> the spar experiences.>> Of course, this is all perhaps academic, since even someone who has worked> with wood a long time and has experienced most of the kinds of joint> failures that are possible and feels like he has a pretty good idea of how> to deal with wood for maximum strength and durability can feel very> different when the failure involves not falling out of a chair, butfalling> out of the air. :-}>> Bottom line, patching a split by regluing it (relaminating it) should> result in a piece of wood with at least equal total integrity andstrength,> but you do what will allow you to sleep well at night before flying.>> Phil Hopkins>> Assistant Professor of Philosophy> Southwestern University> University at Maple> Georgetown, TX 78627> 512-863-1882>>________________________________________________________________________________
I would have to agree with Phil's assessment of the situation. I'velaminated split ends of boards before and they are as strong as the woodanywhere along it's length. I used a vacuum bag with a vacuum pump to drawglue into a joint and it seemed to fill completely. Of course the trick wasa vacuum pump with a high volume and a good seal on bag and wood.Greg>> >> >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about> >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did> >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it> >safely?> >> >Richard>> I see you've gotten some good advice from various perspectives on this,but> I thought I'd add my 2p as a long time woodworker, just for consideration> in yours and similar situations. It depends on what you mean by cracked,> but if you mean split in from the ends in line with the longitudinalgrain,> and if the spars are still free of the ribs and able to be worked on> easily, then simply gluing the split would result in at least equal> strength as an unsplit spar. (The same as a laminated spar) Properlyglued,> with the proper glue, the joint will be much stronger than the surrounding> wood. The trick is getting the glue into that last bit of split, sinceany> area of unglued split introduces a potential failure into the spar and> compromises strength. I would think that a very small area of unglued> split would be less concern than a scarf joint, which because of the angle> of joint introducing some end grain difficulties, is not a joint I trust a> great deal.>> At any rate, a traditional solution to small splits that have thepotential> to run is to drill a small hole, say 1/4" at the end of the split. This> does not weaken the wood in the area as long as there is sufficient wood> around the hole, and contains the split by absorbing the stress or tension> at the end of the split.>> Now I'm no engineer of any sort, and have only the most rudimentary ideaof> the kinds of stresses a spar is expected to take, but I'm thinking that a> small area of unglued split in the interior portion of the spar would beno> more problematic than an internal check that would go unseen and is> possibly there in any piece of wood we use in terms of the kind of loads> the spar experiences.>> Of course, this is all perhaps academic, since even someone who has worked> with wood a long time and has experienced most of the kinds of joint> failures that are possible and feels like he has a pretty good idea of how> to deal with wood for maximum strength and durability can feel very> different when the failure involves not falling out of a chair, butfalling> out of the air. :-}>> Bottom line, patching a split by regluing it (relaminating it) should> result in a piece of wood with at least equal total integrity andstrength,> but you do what will allow you to sleep well at night before flying.>> Phil Hopkins>> Assistant Professor of Philosophy> Southwestern University> University at Maple> Georgetown, TX 78627> 512-863-1882>>________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
"Domenico Bellissimo" Richard,I jsut read this e-mail, haad problems with another computer.About you cracked spar: should be no problem to repair it. Buy as long adrill as you can, they make them as long as 12-14 inches.. If the crack isalong the grain and it is straight, drill a pilot hole from the end grain asfar as the long drill will reach(1/16" drill). Nest take some of your epoxyand place some in a siringe, pump it into your pilot hole. Without makingthe crack groq any longer, with your hands try srpeading the crack apartwhile someone pumps the siringe. Next take 1/8 plywood(5 layer birch) andplace some on both sides of the crack from the top of spar to the bottomalong the whole length of the crack + 3" toward no crack. Let it set. Goodluck. You will have to adjust those ribs over that area to fit. should be noproblem.Domenico-----Original Message-----
"Domenico Bellissimo" Richard,I jsut read this e-mail, haad problems with another computer.About you cracked spar: should be no problem to repair it. Buy as long adrill as you can, they make them as long as 12-14 inches.. If the crack isalong the grain and it is straight, drill a pilot hole from the end grain asfar as the long drill will reach(1/16" drill). Nest take some of your epoxyand place some in a siringe, pump it into your pilot hole. Without makingthe crack groq any longer, with your hands try srpeading the crack apartwhile someone pumps the siringe. Next take 1/8 plywood(5 layer birch) andplace some on both sides of the crack from the top of spar to the bottomalong the whole length of the crack + 3" toward no crack. Let it set. Goodluck. You will have to adjust those ribs over that area to fit. should be noproblem.Domenico-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
"Domenico Bellissimo" Technically there is no reason why a cracked spaar should not be used ifrepaired correctly. The crack is on the end and there is practically no loadthere. If a completely severed spar splice is allowed using acceptedworkmanship, then a repaired crack is not a big deal if done properly.Domenico-----Original Message-----
"Domenico Bellissimo" Technically there is no reason why a cracked spaar should not be used ifrepaired correctly. The crack is on the end and there is practically no loadthere. If a completely severed spar splice is allowed using acceptedworkmanship, then a repaired crack is not a big deal if done properly.Domenico-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: "Michael List"
DITTO Mike:Great Post - i agree!Bert----- Original Message -----
DITTO Mike:Great Post - i agree!Bert----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Roger that,,,,, My two cents is the spars are the heart of the wholeaircraft.I like to save money and time where I can but ,,, the spars?,,If they go away at the wrong time,,, it's RIP,, end of story.Carl-----Original Message-----
Roger that,,,,, My two cents is the spars are the heart of the wholeaircraft.I like to save money and time where I can but ,,, the spars?,,If they go away at the wrong time,,, it's RIP,, end of story.Carl-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: Michael List
RE: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hey Mike, Nice to have you back on the list. Your comments are refreshingand welcome. How about a status update? The kids still excited about theproject?Steve E-----Original Message-----
Hey Mike, Nice to have you back on the list. Your comments are refreshingand welcome. How about a status update? The kids still excited about theproject?Steve E-----Original Message-----
> Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
> Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: "Conoly"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars> > >> >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about> >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did> >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it> >safely?> >> >Richard> >> >> >=====> >Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/> >My building progress:> >http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm> >> >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars> > >> >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about> >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did> >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it> >safely?> >> >Richard> >> >> >=====> >Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/> >My building progress:> >http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm> >> >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.> >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: Chris A Tracy
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars> >> > >> > >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about> > >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did> > >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it> > >safely?> > >> > >Richard> > >> > >> > >=====> > >Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/> > >My building progress:> > >http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm> > >> > >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.> > >> > >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:19:36 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars> >> > >> > >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about> > >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did> > >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it> > >safely?> > >> > >Richard> > >> > >> > >=====> > >Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/> > >My building progress:> > >http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm> > >> > >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.> > >> > >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:19:36 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
> > Pietenpol-List: cracked spars
Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars> >> > >> > >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about> > >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did> > >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it> > >safely?> > >> > >Richard> > >> > >> > >=====> > >Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/> > >My building progress:> > >http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm> > >> > >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.> > >> > >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 03:50:13 -0700 (PDT)
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cracked spars> >> > >> > >Turns out one of my spars is cracked right down the middle for about> > >12-16" on both ends. Everett suggested I just patch it, like he did> > >with his. Can anyone else recommend patching? How would you do it> > >safely?> > >> > >Richard> > >> > >> > >=====> > >Webmaster, http://www.AirCamper.org/> > >My building progress:> > >http://www.aircamper.org/progress.cfm> > >> > >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.> > >> > >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 03:50:13 -0700 (PDT)