Original Posted By: "Richard Navratil"
Up here in Bethel we have more than our fair share of Cubs and Super Cubs in pieces(and other aircraft for that matter as well). One of the A&P's I share thehanger with has offered to give me (as in free) a set of Cub wing struts (inspected).He's also where I'm getting my A65 from. Anyways, the struts gotme to thinking about the Piper landing gear. What are the pros and cons of goingPiper? There seems to be a lot of benefit going that route as in my casethe Belle will be taking off and landing quite a bit over a five month periodwhen complete...That brings up another subject: The missive that I always include at the bottomof my posts...Some of you already know why I'm building the Bethel Belle and some of you don't.In a nutshell I'm doing this all for charity -- it's a promise I made toa dying eleven year-old boy a few years ago and I intend to keep it. I have noticedlately however that I haven't gotten the responses from many of the usualsthat I once did, and I wonder if that might not be the reason. I know thingslike that sometimes put me off as well. And though I may come across as anut (got news for ya, look at what you fly...) I can assure you I am not -- justsingle-minded. So, for the record, no, I'm not a bible-thumping christian(though I surely believe in God because by rights I should be living in a refrigeratorbox somewhere). I drink, I smoke, I swear, I should be divorced, etc.Maybe that'll put you at ease and I'll get those responses I need to helpme get this project done on time (leaving Bethel May 2006). To those that haveresponded, thank you.Stacy ClarkThe Bethel Belle ProjectBethel, Alaska There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that isto achieve it -- Stacy Clark________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Original Posted By: Stacy Clark
StacyI cant speak for anyone else, but I havent responded to some of your posts becauseyour siuation geographically leaves me feeling unqualified, since I can onlyimagine some of the considerations you may have to build into your project.I am at 900 ft elev. I have flown alot in the western mountains but never ina single engine, and know enough to be nervous about potential conditions youcan run into. If I feel that I have something to contribute I will always be willing throw itin.Dick N. ----- Original Message -----
StacyI cant speak for anyone else, but I havent responded to some of your posts becauseyour siuation geographically leaves me feeling unqualified, since I can onlyimagine some of the considerations you may have to build into your project.I am at 900 ft elev. I have flown alot in the western mountains but never ina single engine, and know enough to be nervous about potential conditions youcan run into. If I feel that I have something to contribute I will always be willing throw itin.Dick N. ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: OT - NBC News Practices Terrorism
Original Posted By: "John Ford"
BBC is really slanted and the wrong way....Chris----- Original Message -----
BBC is really slanted and the wrong way....Chris----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Original Posted By: Stacy Clark
Stacy, the cub struts should work but you will have to cut them down in length.I believe it was cub gear that Grega used on the GN-1. If you look close you cansee that the rear gear mount on a GN-1 is not the same location as it is ona Piet. You may have to modify the gear legs to fit a pit fuselage but I betyou could get it to work.Chris TracySacramento, CA ----- Original Message -----
Stacy, the cub struts should work but you will have to cut them down in length.I believe it was cub gear that Grega used on the GN-1. If you look close you cansee that the rear gear mount on a GN-1 is not the same location as it is ona Piet. You may have to modify the gear legs to fit a pit fuselage but I betyou could get it to work.Chris TracySacramento, CA ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Dick,Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not building the aircraft for here in Alaska.My goal is to fly the Belle to Washington D.C. via all the lower 48 states.When I originally started developing this project about a year ago now (takingit from planning to action in other words) it was for a well known childrenshospital in the southeast. A few years prior I had heard one of their radiothonsand a letter from a dying boy to his mom...and you might say hit me whereI lived. Anyway, over this past year I've been working with them trying toget their official nod of approval for the flight. Our litiginous society beingwhat it is however, the final word came down about a month ago that they wouldno longer allow "any" point to point fund rasiers because of insurance (read:public relations) concerns. That meant planes, cars, motorcycles, boats,and even bikes. But oh well, life goes on. So, now I'm doing this flight forany charity the donors desire and the flight will be "officially unaffiliated"with any charity. There's obviously far more to it than that, but I won'tget into that here. So, going back to the original question, what's your opinionon using Cub struts and landing gear?Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that isto achieve it -- Stacy Clark________________________________________________________________________________
Dick,Thanks for the reply. I'm actually not building the aircraft for here in Alaska.My goal is to fly the Belle to Washington D.C. via all the lower 48 states.When I originally started developing this project about a year ago now (takingit from planning to action in other words) it was for a well known childrenshospital in the southeast. A few years prior I had heard one of their radiothonsand a letter from a dying boy to his mom...and you might say hit me whereI lived. Anyway, over this past year I've been working with them trying toget their official nod of approval for the flight. Our litiginous society beingwhat it is however, the final word came down about a month ago that they wouldno longer allow "any" point to point fund rasiers because of insurance (read:public relations) concerns. That meant planes, cars, motorcycles, boats,and even bikes. But oh well, life goes on. So, now I'm doing this flight forany charity the donors desire and the flight will be "officially unaffiliated"with any charity. There's obviously far more to it than that, but I won'tget into that here. So, going back to the original question, what's your opinionon using Cub struts and landing gear?Stacy
There is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that isto achieve it -- Stacy Clark________________________________________________________________________________Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Original Posted By: Stacy Clark
Stacy and ChrisI belive the whole purpose for the creation of the Grega was that it could usemany of the J-3 parts and make the building process easier.In short I think the gear legs are one of those parts used.Dick ----- Original Message -----
Stacy and ChrisI belive the whole purpose for the creation of the Grega was that it could usemany of the J-3 parts and make the building process easier.In short I think the gear legs are one of those parts used.Dick ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Original Posted By: "John Ford"
RE: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Stacy and Chris,My Grega has Cub gear as well as other Cub parts. I am abeliever in Cubgear...Lord knows it has been given a workout (bounces)Good luck.Mike KingGN-177MKDallas-----Original Message-----
Stacy and Chris,My Grega has Cub gear as well as other Cub parts. I am abeliever in Cubgear...Lord knows it has been given a workout (bounces)Good luck.Mike KingGN-177MKDallas-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
I just sent him my nasty emailebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictlyprohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.everyone else should send this guy an emailI sent him this:_________You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"also looky here:http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.htmlThe Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report violationsof intellectual property and internet crimes.I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and runningI will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/ownerswho all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal useof thier website. you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.23:59 remaining_________ ----- Original Message -----
I just sent him my nasty emailebay will yank his ad if they were notified and investigated..... it's strictlyprohibited to sell reproductions of any copyrighted items on ebay.everyone else should send this guy an emailI sent him this:_________You do realize you are selling pirated copies of the Piet plans don't you?Do you also know that it is illegal to do such things?Check this out if you feel up for some reading during your free time.http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html pay particular attention to section 506 "Criminal Offenses"also looky here:http://www.cybercrime.gov/ip.htmlThe Dept. of Justice has a website with a link that allows persons to report violationsof intellectual property and internet crimes.I'll be checking back on this ad tomorrow and if I see it is still up and runningI will be submitting my complaint as will about 100 other Pietenpol builders/ownerswho all know about your activity through the Pietenpol email list.While I'm at it I'll notify ebay as well. They don't take kindly to illegal useof thier website. you'd do very well to remove the ad and forget you ever did sell illegal plans.The consequences are not worth it. I promise you that much.23:59 remaining_________ ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: DJ Vegh
I sent a note to eBay...... ----- Original Message -----
I sent a note to eBay...... ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
wow this guy is a piece of work... he's selling copied plans of all kinds of things...RCM model plans (RCM Magazine would stick thier attorneys on him if theyknew about it I'm sure)take a look at his feedback and prior auctions... all of them 100% illegalhttp://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&useridmgp60DJ ----- Original Message -----
wow this guy is a piece of work... he's selling copied plans of all kinds of things...RCM model plans (RCM Magazine would stick thier attorneys on him if theyknew about it I'm sure)take a look at his feedback and prior auctions... all of them 100% illegalhttp://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws1/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&useridmgp60DJ ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: DJ Vegh
Are you sure the plans are copyrighted?Chris ----- Original Message -----
Are you sure the plans are copyrighted?Chris ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Sorry guys, been thru this with Uncle Willie (he sells scores of photocopiedmodel plans and makes hundreds or thousands of bucks a month doing it) andit's not likely that eBay will do diddly-squat... remember, they make moneyfor every auction... unless perhaps we get the copyright holders themselvesto complain or even send a letter from a lawyer.OTOH, maybe a lot of folks complaining at once might work?Here's what the eBay user agreement says(http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html):-----------------------5.4 VeRO Program. eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program works toensure that listed items do not infringe upon the copyright, trademark orother rights of third parties. VeRO program participants and other rightsowners can report listings offering infringing items, and request that suchitems be removed. VeRO program participants and other rights owners may havelimited access to some of your personal information as described in thePrivacy Policy at (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/privacy-policy.html).14. Legal Compliance.You shall comply with all applicable domestic and international laws,statutes, ordinances and regulations regarding your use of our service andyour bidding on, listing, purchase, solicitation of offers to purchase, andsale of items.-----------------------http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/c ... lReporting Listings When You Are Not The Rights OwnerUnfortunately, if you are not an intellectual property rights owner youcannot report listings as potentially infringing through eBay's VeROProgram.However, you can still help by getting in touch with the rights owner andencouraging them to contact us.------------------------In short, eBay doesn't give a hoot about copyright fraud, unless they get acomplaint from the Pietenpol family themselves. Even then, don't expect themto care. Several model designers and magazines contacted them about UncleWillie selling copies of their plans, with ZERO action taken by eBay. eBayis arguably a party to illegal activity if you ask me, but they can affordto be with all the $$$ they make on the tens of thousands of illegal itemsposted every day.I don't beleive that anyone who does this either "doesn't realize" it'swrong, nor do they ever care. $1.50 in effort = $35 profit, with everyoneelse doing all the work and little fear of consequences (in this worldanyway.) Sad but true.Sorry guys, it stinks to high heaven, but that's what it looks like to me.-MMike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.netWebmaster, OV-10 Bronco Associationhttp://www.ov-10bronco.net/----- Original Message -----
Sorry guys, been thru this with Uncle Willie (he sells scores of photocopiedmodel plans and makes hundreds or thousands of bucks a month doing it) andit's not likely that eBay will do diddly-squat... remember, they make moneyfor every auction... unless perhaps we get the copyright holders themselvesto complain or even send a letter from a lawyer.OTOH, maybe a lot of folks complaining at once might work?Here's what the eBay user agreement says(http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html):-----------------------5.4 VeRO Program. eBay's Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) program works toensure that listed items do not infringe upon the copyright, trademark orother rights of third parties. VeRO program participants and other rightsowners can report listings offering infringing items, and request that suchitems be removed. VeRO program participants and other rights owners may havelimited access to some of your personal information as described in thePrivacy Policy at (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/privacy-policy.html).14. Legal Compliance.You shall comply with all applicable domestic and international laws,statutes, ordinances and regulations regarding your use of our service andyour bidding on, listing, purchase, solicitation of offers to purchase, andsale of items.-----------------------http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/c ... lReporting Listings When You Are Not The Rights OwnerUnfortunately, if you are not an intellectual property rights owner youcannot report listings as potentially infringing through eBay's VeROProgram.However, you can still help by getting in touch with the rights owner andencouraging them to contact us.------------------------In short, eBay doesn't give a hoot about copyright fraud, unless they get acomplaint from the Pietenpol family themselves. Even then, don't expect themto care. Several model designers and magazines contacted them about UncleWillie selling copies of their plans, with ZERO action taken by eBay. eBayis arguably a party to illegal activity if you ask me, but they can affordto be with all the $$$ they make on the tens of thousands of illegal itemsposted every day.I don't beleive that anyone who does this either "doesn't realize" it'swrong, nor do they ever care. $1.50 in effort = $35 profit, with everyoneelse doing all the work and little fear of consequences (in this worldanyway.) Sad but true.Sorry guys, it stinks to high heaven, but that's what it looks like to me.-MMike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.netWebmaster, OV-10 Bronco Associationhttp://www.ov-10bronco.net/----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: dave rowe
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it againIf you look at the reprints, their is no copyright. Don't don't they run out ?And no, i have nothing to do with this man. And I have not bought plans from him. Is he the same man that sales other plans from the EAA reprints? Howdy________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:09:17 -0700
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it againIf you look at the reprints, their is no copyright. Don't don't they run out ?And no, i have nothing to do with this man. And I have not bought plans from him. Is he the same man that sales other plans from the EAA reprints? Howdy________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:09:17 -0700
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: DJ Vegh
Keep in mind that BHP was not the author of the plans most of us use. BHP wasthe designer of the airplane but Orrin Hoopman authored the plans and he was theoriginal holder of the copyright which by default goes to the author of a copyrightablework. The original plans were first published, for the sake of consideration for copyright,after 1923 and before 1968. At the time of first publication in the thirties,the Copyright Act of 1909 was in force. Under that law, if a work waspublished "with notice" of copyright, the copyright term was a flat 28 yearsfrom publication. If Orrin, or Bernie, first published the plans without thatnotice, the plans immediately entered the public domain. In either case, thecopyright for the plans is very likely now expired.The Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act of 1998, which extended copyrights to theauthor's life plus seventy years, only applied to copyrights then in effect,so would not apply to Pietenpol plans.I'm willing to bet that, even though it is really bad form to sell the copied plansand nobody except some Belize expatriots would try to build an airplane fromsuch a set of plans, eBay's lawyers have already cleared the sale.Mike Hardaway ----- Original Message -----
Keep in mind that BHP was not the author of the plans most of us use. BHP wasthe designer of the airplane but Orrin Hoopman authored the plans and he was theoriginal holder of the copyright which by default goes to the author of a copyrightablework. The original plans were first published, for the sake of consideration for copyright,after 1923 and before 1968. At the time of first publication in the thirties,the Copyright Act of 1909 was in force. Under that law, if a work waspublished "with notice" of copyright, the copyright term was a flat 28 yearsfrom publication. If Orrin, or Bernie, first published the plans without thatnotice, the plans immediately entered the public domain. In either case, thecopyright for the plans is very likely now expired.The Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act of 1998, which extended copyrights to theauthor's life plus seventy years, only applied to copyrights then in effect,so would not apply to Pietenpol plans.I'm willing to bet that, even though it is really bad form to sell the copied plansand nobody except some Belize expatriots would try to build an airplane fromsuch a set of plans, eBay's lawyers have already cleared the sale.Mike Hardaway ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it againI sent this guy a warning day before yesterday. I also asked him what his physical address was so I could notify the feds about his copyright violations.This guy stinks. Anyone putting beans (or in my case tacos) on the table and earning a living by selling their own creative/intellectual material deserves to be protected (as in the case of the Pietenpol clan). Please dump on this guy in a big way and send complaints to EBAY advising they have a pirate using their service.Taco LocoCentral Texas________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it againI sent this guy a warning day before yesterday. I also asked him what his physical address was so I could notify the feds about his copyright violations.This guy stinks. Anyone putting beans (or in my case tacos) on the table and earning a living by selling their own creative/intellectual material deserves to be protected (as in the case of the Pietenpol clan). Please dump on this guy in a big way and send complaints to EBAY advising they have a pirate using their service.Taco LocoCentral Texas________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: Mike
After looking at his other auctions I noticed he was selling copies of RCM Magazinemodel airplane plans. RCM has a notice on their website warning againstsuch plans for sale.I contacted the editor-in-chief there just a couple hours ago. He said that theirplans are protected under legal copyright and he hand it off to the properdepartment to pursue it.Of course this does nothing for the sale of the Piet plans but it sounds like maybethis guy will be paid a visit by some high priced magazine attorneys....if nothing else but to just give him a scare.With 300+ feedbacks and selling plans at an average price of about $20, this guyhas scammed rightful owners of a minimum of $6,000.DJ ----- Original Message -----
After looking at his other auctions I noticed he was selling copies of RCM Magazinemodel airplane plans. RCM has a notice on their website warning againstsuch plans for sale.I contacted the editor-in-chief there just a couple hours ago. He said that theirplans are protected under legal copyright and he hand it off to the properdepartment to pursue it.Of course this does nothing for the sale of the Piet plans but it sounds like maybethis guy will be paid a visit by some high priced magazine attorneys....if nothing else but to just give him a scare.With 300+ feedbacks and selling plans at an average price of about $20, this guyhas scammed rightful owners of a minimum of $6,000.DJ ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: the counterfeiter on ebay is at it again
Original Posted By: DJ Vegh
One of you might point out his liability if some one builds from these plans andhas a problem. ----- Original Message -----
One of you might point out his liability if some one builds from these plans andhas a problem. ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Original Posted By: Mike Luther
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Original Posted By: Mike Luther
Mike,Based on everyones feedback I'll probably be going the plans route for the sprunggear. Out of curiosity, why "no" on the gear. My guess is too wide? Toomuch work to convert? Weight?The missive by the way is more about the kids and the hospital that I was originallydoing this project for rather than any cheerleading on my own part. I knowI'll finish, I have to...it's my ride outta here. :-)StacyThere is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that isto achieve it -- Stacy Clark ----- Original Message -----
Mike,Based on everyones feedback I'll probably be going the plans route for the sprunggear. Out of curiosity, why "no" on the gear. My guess is too wide? Toomuch work to convert? Weight?The missive by the way is more about the kids and the hospital that I was originallydoing this project for rather than any cheerleading on my own part. I knowI'll finish, I have to...it's my ride outta here. :-)StacyThere is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that isto achieve it -- Stacy Clark ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piper landing gear and wing struts?
Original Posted By: Mike King
Mike,Unfortunately mine's a standard Piet fuselage vs. GN-1. From the feedback I'vereceived it looks like the Piper gear in my case would be an uphill battle, thoughI admittedly don't yet know why.StacyThere is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that isto achieve it -- Stacy Clark ----- Original Message -----
Mike,Unfortunately mine's a standard Piet fuselage vs. GN-1. From the feedback I'vereceived it looks like the Piper gear in my case would be an uphill battle, thoughI admittedly don't yet know why.StacyThere is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that isto achieve it -- Stacy Clark ----- Original Message -----