Original Posted By: "Gordon Bowen"
I am building a brakeless, skid equipped Piet. But now I'm thinking that sometimesI might want to be able to use a hardtop runway. I also know this is almostimpossible with a skid, yet i want to do everything I can to save weight backthere.So my question is this.what if I put brakes on, but instead of a tailwheel, put a longishrubber keel on the shoe of the tailskid. Wouldn't this tend to keep the tail straight,and resist sideskidding as much or more than a tailwheel? I can thenuse the brakes and blasting the rudder for steering.This is all armchair theorizing and I would appreciate any comments from peoplewho actually have experience to speak from.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: tailskid/brakes/asphalt
Re: Pietenpol-List: tailskid/brakes/asphalt
Original Posted By: Douwe Blumberg
RE: Brakes in General. On N1033B I have 1941 vintage drum brakes with dual pullcables on the stick. Been looking at nifty disc brakes and wheels that comeon 2 wheel drive ATV's front axles, has anybody tried these? Suppose one couldfind a dead ATV somehere in a junk yard. Secondly, regarding tail wheels,I've found, if you get off the hard tarmac and taxi in the grass, the tailwheelassembly is a heck of a good brake, at least in FL sandy grass. With a loadedwt of about 70 lbs on the tailwheel with my weight in pilot's seat, the littletailwheel cuts into the grass/sand and requires engine thrust to keep moving.On hard tarmac, existing brakes do basically nothing. Expect a skid platewould be like throwing out a sea anchor.Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message -----
RE: Brakes in General. On N1033B I have 1941 vintage drum brakes with dual pullcables on the stick. Been looking at nifty disc brakes and wheels that comeon 2 wheel drive ATV's front axles, has anybody tried these? Suppose one couldfind a dead ATV somehere in a junk yard. Secondly, regarding tail wheels,I've found, if you get off the hard tarmac and taxi in the grass, the tailwheelassembly is a heck of a good brake, at least in FL sandy grass. With a loadedwt of about 70 lbs on the tailwheel with my weight in pilot's seat, the littletailwheel cuts into the grass/sand and requires engine thrust to keep moving.On hard tarmac, existing brakes do basically nothing. Expect a skid platewould be like throwing out a sea anchor.Gordon Bowen ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: tailskid/brakes/asphalt
Original Posted By: Galen Hutcheson
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 05/25/05
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Re: Pietenpol-List: tailskid/brakes/asphalt
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailskid/brakes/asphaltIn a message dated 5/30/2005 8:02:22 PM Central Standard Time, douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:I am building a brakeless, skid equipped Piet. But now I'm thinking that sometimes I might want to be able to use a hardtop runway. I also know this isalmost impossible with a skid, yet i want to do everything I can to save weightback there.So my question is this.what if I put brakes on, but instead of a tailwheel, put a longishrubber keel on the shoe of the tailskid. Wouldn't this tend to keep the tail straight, and resist sideskidding as much or more than a tailwheel? I can then use the brakes and blasting the rudder for steering.This is all armchair theorizing and I would appreciate any comments from people who actually have experience to speak from.DouweDouwe,Your thoughts on saving weight in the tail are Right On. I originally built mine with no brakes, and a plans type skid, except made the bottom of the skidflat steel, without the fin sticking down...that would really gouge the asphalt. It would be fine, if the plane ONLY used grass. I tried several modson the skid, because it still made tracks in the grass, made marks on the asphalt...and the scraping noise drowned out the engine !! I once tried a nylonroller, but it only lasted a couple of flights. It would jam up, and rub a flatspot. I think a rubber pad, like a piece of an auto tire, wouldn't last long, and would not resist a cross wind. It still amazes me how well the tailskid behaves in the grass, yet get it on hard surface and it's like trying to drive on wet ice, especially without brakes. Even a blast of power could not overcome a crosswind...and then you're going even faster, too. Several times Ihad to let it slow to a stop, pointing in the wrong direction, get out, and move the tail to the desired direction, climb back in, and try it again !! Oh,well...it gave the onlookers something to chuckle at !! I then installed brakes, and could manage it on hard surface, but at a VERY SLOW walking speed.I flew 'er to Brodhead & Oshkosh '03 in that configuration. I almost lost it onseveral occasions while taxiing, at various airports. On hard surface landing roll out with the tail down, if there is a crosswind, full rudder deflection still isn't enough. Then I would stab a brake, and the tail would comeup and scare the Ba Jiebies out of me !! One time I went off the runway, and almost took out a light. Now I have good working brakes & tailwheel...problemssolved !!Chuck GantzerNX770CGYesterday did the 'Grand Tour' lap around Wichita !! Over a 2 1/2 hour flight !! Way cool !! This is my 4th summer flying my plane, and I like 'er moreevery time we go up !!________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tailskid/brakes/asphaltIn a message dated 5/30/2005 8:02:22 PM Central Standard Time, douweblumberg(at)earthlink.net writes:I am building a brakeless, skid equipped Piet. But now I'm thinking that sometimes I might want to be able to use a hardtop runway. I also know this isalmost impossible with a skid, yet i want to do everything I can to save weightback there.So my question is this.what if I put brakes on, but instead of a tailwheel, put a longishrubber keel on the shoe of the tailskid. Wouldn't this tend to keep the tail straight, and resist sideskidding as much or more than a tailwheel? I can then use the brakes and blasting the rudder for steering.This is all armchair theorizing and I would appreciate any comments from people who actually have experience to speak from.DouweDouwe,Your thoughts on saving weight in the tail are Right On. I originally built mine with no brakes, and a plans type skid, except made the bottom of the skidflat steel, without the fin sticking down...that would really gouge the asphalt. It would be fine, if the plane ONLY used grass. I tried several modson the skid, because it still made tracks in the grass, made marks on the asphalt...and the scraping noise drowned out the engine !! I once tried a nylonroller, but it only lasted a couple of flights. It would jam up, and rub a flatspot. I think a rubber pad, like a piece of an auto tire, wouldn't last long, and would not resist a cross wind. It still amazes me how well the tailskid behaves in the grass, yet get it on hard surface and it's like trying to drive on wet ice, especially without brakes. Even a blast of power could not overcome a crosswind...and then you're going even faster, too. Several times Ihad to let it slow to a stop, pointing in the wrong direction, get out, and move the tail to the desired direction, climb back in, and try it again !! Oh,well...it gave the onlookers something to chuckle at !! I then installed brakes, and could manage it on hard surface, but at a VERY SLOW walking speed.I flew 'er to Brodhead & Oshkosh '03 in that configuration. I almost lost it onseveral occasions while taxiing, at various airports. On hard surface landing roll out with the tail down, if there is a crosswind, full rudder deflection still isn't enough. Then I would stab a brake, and the tail would comeup and scare the Ba Jiebies out of me !! One time I went off the runway, and almost took out a light. Now I have good working brakes & tailwheel...problemssolved !!Chuck GantzerNX770CGYesterday did the 'Grand Tour' lap around Wichita !! Over a 2 1/2 hour flight !! Way cool !! This is my 4th summer flying my plane, and I like 'er moreevery time we go up !!________________________________________________________________________________