Original Posted By: "gbowen(at)ptialaska.net"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel spring & SkidIn a message dated 1/30/2007 6:09:59 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes:Did you put the "keels" on your skid plate, and do you think these are necessary on grass? Nope, no keels on the bottom of the skid plate...just a flat plate. At Brodhead '03, I had to weld another plate on the skid, because it was worn through. I can't think of the guy's name, but he has the shop behind the fuelpumps there, and he found me a piece of metal, and let me use his torches. Noplace in the world like Brodhead !! I bought him a six pack of his favorite beer. I had to taxi across some asphalt at my home field, and I'm sure it would have left marks on the asphalt on a hot summer day. I don't think the keel is really necessary. It handled well on the grass. Get it on the pavement though, with any cross wind, and it's very difficult to control, unless you aregoing very slow, and you have differential brakes. Land on hard surface with atail skid, and you are completely at the mercy of a cross wind. I've never taken out any runway lights, but she did veer off the runway twice, and there were a few other close calls on hard surface landings. Landing full stall on the grass was a no-brainer, and she tracked straight on roll out, and the rudder was effective. I now have a 3 1/2" steerable tailwheel, but it should have been a 4". I've got to use some brakes to steer in tall grass. The 1/16" tailwheel cablesrun all the way up to the inboard portion of the rudder bar. I can go anywhere now, with confidence. I used the original tail skid, and added the wheelto the aft portion, to keep the tail as low as possible. I've got to touch thetail wheel before the mains, to get a full stall landing now, or she'll bounce a little because the wing is not done flying yet. If I ever put a 4" wheelback there, it would be even more challenging to get a full stall landing.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel spring & Skid
Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel spring & Skid
Original Posted By:
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel spring & SkidChuck,You said you need to change your 3-1/2" tail wheel with a 4" wheel. Why? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel spring & SkidChuck,You said you need to change your 3-1/2" tail wheel with a 4" wheel. Why? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel spring & Skid
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel spring & SkidIn a message dated 1/31/2007 6:16:22 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes:You said you need to change your 3-1/2" tail wheel with a 4" wheel. Why? Well, it was only a consideration, and would simply be to help taxiing in tall grass, no other reason. When I taxi In the grass I have to use a brake to help 'er go where she needs to go, like a turnaround at the end of therunway. On the pavement, though, I don't need the brakes to turn fairly sharp.On landing roll out, I try not to use any brakes at all. The rudder is more than effective enough. I have Titan 8.00 X 6 turf tires for the mains, so thedownside of the 4" wheel, is that a 3 point, full stall landing would be more difficult to make 'er stay on the ground without a bounce, because the wing is not yet stalled all the way. If you had the taller motorcycle wheels, a full stall would be easier to come by. With the set up I have now, I can spin doughnuts with one brake locked, about 1200 rpm, some forward stick to get the tail off the ground a couple of inches, smoke pouring out till she disappears behind a man made cloud !! After exhaustive testing of the side loads on the tail skid / wheel, there is nodamage to the short little wheel back there !! That manuver is kind of my trade mark, so I'm not going to mess with the tailwheel. Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:02:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tailwheel spring & SkidIn a message dated 1/31/2007 6:16:22 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes:You said you need to change your 3-1/2" tail wheel with a 4" wheel. Why? Well, it was only a consideration, and would simply be to help taxiing in tall grass, no other reason. When I taxi In the grass I have to use a brake to help 'er go where she needs to go, like a turnaround at the end of therunway. On the pavement, though, I don't need the brakes to turn fairly sharp.On landing roll out, I try not to use any brakes at all. The rudder is more than effective enough. I have Titan 8.00 X 6 turf tires for the mains, so thedownside of the 4" wheel, is that a 3 point, full stall landing would be more difficult to make 'er stay on the ground without a bounce, because the wing is not yet stalled all the way. If you had the taller motorcycle wheels, a full stall would be easier to come by. With the set up I have now, I can spin doughnuts with one brake locked, about 1200 rpm, some forward stick to get the tail off the ground a couple of inches, smoke pouring out till she disappears behind a man made cloud !! After exhaustive testing of the side loads on the tail skid / wheel, there is nodamage to the short little wheel back there !! That manuver is kind of my trade mark, so I'm not going to mess with the tailwheel. Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:02:05 -0500
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel spring & Skid
Original Posted By: "Dick Navratil"
Chuck,It's funny you talk about going from a 3 1/2" wheel to a 4" wheel. It sure doesn'tsound like much but I had a 3 1/2" wheel and decided I could squeeze a 4"into its place. It really made a big difference both in the steering effectivenessand the ride while taxiing. It doesn't 'jar' the spring nearly as muchnow. Its crazy to think it would make a difference but it really did! I reallydon't think the weight difference was much either. Here's a shot;http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20E ... 596.jpgDon EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Chuck,It's funny you talk about going from a 3 1/2" wheel to a 4" wheel. It sure doesn'tsound like much but I had a 3 1/2" wheel and decided I could squeeze a 4"into its place. It really made a big difference both in the steering effectivenessand the ride while taxiing. It doesn't 'jar' the spring nearly as muchnow. Its crazy to think it would make a difference but it really did! I reallydon't think the weight difference was much either. Here's a shot;http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20E ... 596.jpgDon EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel spring & Skid
Original Posted By: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel spring & SkidIn a message dated 1/31/2007 8:17:38 PM Central Standard Time, EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:Chuck,It's funny you talk about going from a 3 1/2" wheel to a 4" wheel. It sure doesn't sound like much but I had a 3 1/2" wheel and decided I could squeeze a4" into its place. It really made a big difference both in the steering effectiveness and the ride while taxiing. It doesn't 'jar' the spring nearly asmuch now. Its crazy to think it would make a difference but it really did! Ireally don't think the weight difference was much either. Here's a shot;http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20E ... 596.jpgDon EmchNX899DEDon,Yes, I'm sure it did make a difference, and with those tall wheels you have, you can probably still get the wing stalled before touchdown. Are you able toget the tail to touch before the mains ? Do you do very many landings on hard surface ? On hard surface landings, I have to make wheel landings, or she'll bounce back up almost every time...even if I drag the tail down first. On the turf, she'll stay down.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel spring & SkidIn a message dated 1/31/2007 8:17:38 PM Central Standard Time, EmchAir(at)aol.com writes:Chuck,It's funny you talk about going from a 3 1/2" wheel to a 4" wheel. It sure doesn't sound like much but I had a 3 1/2" wheel and decided I could squeeze a4" into its place. It really made a big difference both in the steering effectiveness and the ride while taxiing. It doesn't 'jar' the spring nearly asmuch now. Its crazy to think it would make a difference but it really did! Ireally don't think the weight difference was much either. Here's a shot;http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Don%20E ... 596.jpgDon EmchNX899DEDon,Yes, I'm sure it did make a difference, and with those tall wheels you have, you can probably still get the wing stalled before touchdown. Are you able toget the tail to touch before the mains ? Do you do very many landings on hard surface ? On hard surface landings, I have to make wheel landings, or she'll bounce back up almost every time...even if I drag the tail down first. On the turf, she'll stay down.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel spring & Skid
Original Posted By: gus notti
Don, is that Gold Wing your?Gene> > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 06:02:20 -0800 (PST)
Don, is that Gold Wing your?Gene> > > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 06:02:20 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Another wing stitching ?
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another wing stitching ?In a message dated 2/2/2007 8:04:58 AM Central Standard Time, gus_notti(at)yahoo.com writes:One more quick question, does the original plans for the Air camper call for rib stitching?Would the FAA sign off if the wings were only glued with no other kind of attachments?I'm thinking about buying this flying project, (yes N number back in 1991) however when I asked the current owner if the fabric was rib stitched he said no, (not sure he know's what to look for) What are the guide lines requiring the stitching? Vse and Max weight...right?ThanksThe plans don't show anything about the covering process. Covering an airplane is a whole seperate process, and isn't specific to any certain type, exceptfor Vne (which requires closer spacing of the rib stitches). The Stitts process is what I used, and it calls out 3 1/2" spacing of the stitches, and inthe prop wash plus one rib, it calls out 2 1/2" spacing. I have a total of about 500 stitches in my wing. You can easily see the stitches under the 2" tape. I think Stitts suplies this document for sale, and should be closely followed. I doubt if the FAA or a DAR would sign off on it, and I question howit got it's original Airworthyness Certificate. My guess is that it doesn't havevery many actual flight hours, for fear of the fabric coming off. The 1/2" wide cap strips just simply doesn't have enough area to glue to, and I would alsosuggest a close look at the ribs, to see if any of them are pulled sideways, and possibly cracked, from the heat shrink process. It might even require a re-cover job, which would risk destroying some ribs. After a very close inspection inside the wing, if there is no damage, you could probaly remove thepaint along the ribs, stitch it, and put the 2" tape on top, then re-paint. Itamazes me why someone would cut corners in such a critical area. On the otherhand, maybe it actually does have stitches, and the current owner just doesn'tknow what to look for.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another wing stitching ?In a message dated 2/2/2007 8:04:58 AM Central Standard Time, gus_notti(at)yahoo.com writes:One more quick question, does the original plans for the Air camper call for rib stitching?Would the FAA sign off if the wings were only glued with no other kind of attachments?I'm thinking about buying this flying project, (yes N number back in 1991) however when I asked the current owner if the fabric was rib stitched he said no, (not sure he know's what to look for) What are the guide lines requiring the stitching? Vse and Max weight...right?ThanksThe plans don't show anything about the covering process. Covering an airplane is a whole seperate process, and isn't specific to any certain type, exceptfor Vne (which requires closer spacing of the rib stitches). The Stitts process is what I used, and it calls out 3 1/2" spacing of the stitches, and inthe prop wash plus one rib, it calls out 2 1/2" spacing. I have a total of about 500 stitches in my wing. You can easily see the stitches under the 2" tape. I think Stitts suplies this document for sale, and should be closely followed. I doubt if the FAA or a DAR would sign off on it, and I question howit got it's original Airworthyness Certificate. My guess is that it doesn't havevery many actual flight hours, for fear of the fabric coming off. The 1/2" wide cap strips just simply doesn't have enough area to glue to, and I would alsosuggest a close look at the ribs, to see if any of them are pulled sideways, and possibly cracked, from the heat shrink process. It might even require a re-cover job, which would risk destroying some ribs. After a very close inspection inside the wing, if there is no damage, you could probaly remove thepaint along the ribs, stitch it, and put the 2" tape on top, then re-paint. Itamazes me why someone would cut corners in such a critical area. On the otherhand, maybe it actually does have stitches, and the current owner just doesn'tknow what to look for.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Another wing stitching ?
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Gus; the requirement for rib stitching comes from the covering system manufacturer (Poly-Fiber, etc.) as well as from best practices guidelines. As mentioned in an earlier post, one Pieter feels that Hipec may be the only manufacturer that does not require rib stitching. If you can determine the covering system used on the airplane, that would help.I would think that you could go back and do rib stitching by removing the paint over the ribs, stitching after applying rib lace reinforcing tape over the rib area, going over that with finishing tapes, and then refinishing the new areas. Matter of fact, if the Stits method was used to cover the aircraft, you don't even have to remove the paint and other finishes before laying down the new work... they claim that all their components are completely compatible with one another. However, it will probably be easier to see through the wing fabric to do the rib stitching if you remove the finishes over the ribs, down to bare fabric. It won't be as messy, either.Like the man says, "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later". Somebody didn't pay the man when the airplane was first covered ;o)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ct ... ___Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another wing stitching ?Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:27:13 -0500
Gus; the requirement for rib stitching comes from the covering system manufacturer (Poly-Fiber, etc.) as well as from best practices guidelines. As mentioned in an earlier post, one Pieter feels that Hipec may be the only manufacturer that does not require rib stitching. If you can determine the covering system used on the airplane, that would help.I would think that you could go back and do rib stitching by removing the paint over the ribs, stitching after applying rib lace reinforcing tape over the rib area, going over that with finishing tapes, and then refinishing the new areas. Matter of fact, if the Stits method was used to cover the aircraft, you don't even have to remove the paint and other finishes before laying down the new work... they claim that all their components are completely compatible with one another. However, it will probably be easier to see through the wing fabric to do the rib stitching if you remove the finishes over the ribs, down to bare fabric. It won't be as messy, either.Like the man says, "you can pay me now, or you can pay me later". Somebody didn't pay the man when the airplane was first covered ;o)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ct ... ___Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another wing stitching ?Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 10:27:13 -0500
Pietenpol-List: Another wing stitching ?
Original Posted By: gus notti
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tailwheel spring & Skid
Original Posted By: Tim Verthein
Chuck, Three-points come pretty easy, as long as you keep thinking, "hold it off, holdit off, hold it off." If I give the tall gear/wheels a chance to touch first,which is easy to do, I am guaranteed a bounce. It does have a fairly highdeck angle. Usually as long as I "hold it off, hold it off" on the second landingit is usually slowed up enough to be at the right angle to touch all three.I think that's the key. Sometimes if it's been a few weeks or so sinceI've flown my brain seems to forget that it is kind of a steep three-point. Ifmy nose tank is full it seems to take a very conscious full pull back to mystop to get the tail to touch with the mains. It is much easier when the tankis at least a few gallons lower. Hard surface landings aren't my favorite, butI've done some. Not too much different I guess, probably more psychologicalthan anything but I still don't like them. A cool thing is that the tires don'tchirp, it's more like a short howl to get them up to speed. Hard surfacetakeoffs seem no different than grass. Gene, no that's not my Goldwing. That picture was taken at Barber Airport.Forrest Barber is the Goldwing guy. My dad is a big Goldwing groupie and I dohave to admit, it is one classy and nice to ride bike. He's had it all overthe country, with probably over 100,000 miles on it by now. The good flying weather isn't too far off!Don Emch NX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 13:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Chuck, Three-points come pretty easy, as long as you keep thinking, "hold it off, holdit off, hold it off." If I give the tall gear/wheels a chance to touch first,which is easy to do, I am guaranteed a bounce. It does have a fairly highdeck angle. Usually as long as I "hold it off, hold it off" on the second landingit is usually slowed up enough to be at the right angle to touch all three.I think that's the key. Sometimes if it's been a few weeks or so sinceI've flown my brain seems to forget that it is kind of a steep three-point. Ifmy nose tank is full it seems to take a very conscious full pull back to mystop to get the tail to touch with the mains. It is much easier when the tankis at least a few gallons lower. Hard surface landings aren't my favorite, butI've done some. Not too much different I guess, probably more psychologicalthan anything but I still don't like them. A cool thing is that the tires don'tchirp, it's more like a short howl to get them up to speed. Hard surfacetakeoffs seem no different than grass. Gene, no that's not my Goldwing. That picture was taken at Barber Airport.Forrest Barber is the Goldwing guy. My dad is a big Goldwing groupie and I dohave to admit, it is one classy and nice to ride bike. He's had it all overthe country, with probably over 100,000 miles on it by now. The good flying weather isn't too far off!Don Emch NX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 13:29:40 -0800 (PST)