Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Jim,Here's a picture of Dick Navatril's center section - should answer yourquestion. By the way, I think .040 aluminum is plenty heavy. .025 wouldprobably be just fine.Gary Boothe Cool, CA PietenpolWW Conversion 90% done, Tail Group awaiting hinges,Working on fuse,(7 ribs down...)-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
Re: Pietenpol-List: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
Original Posted By: "jimd"
Jim,The upper surface of the center section on NX18235 is plywood covering over the fuel tank.It is a removable panel for access to the fuel tank.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Jim,The upper surface of the center section on NX18235 is plywood covering over the fuel tank.It is a removable panel for access to the fuel tank.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
Original Posted By: "jimd"
Dick's plane looks like it is fabric covered ... only with fabric that looks likewood, much like the rest of the plane, so not shure about that one.To have a removable wood section of thin plywood.. did you have to do anythingto beef it up? What about UV protection.. is it painted? Was hoping to keep thenatural wood finish somehow.No doubt I should have asked first and polished the aluminum later.. will say itwas far more work than I had anticipated.Thought about giving it a number of coats of the clear coat from the T-88 folks,would toughen it up, but not sure it can handle UV.Seen Piets with wood landing gear, wood exterior sides, wood floors, etc. but notwood finished center sections.. even though most of them were wood there.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and woodOK?
Dick's plane looks like it is fabric covered ... only with fabric that looks likewood, much like the rest of the plane, so not shure about that one.To have a removable wood section of thin plywood.. did you have to do anythingto beef it up? What about UV protection.. is it painted? Was hoping to keep thenatural wood finish somehow.No doubt I should have asked first and polished the aluminum later.. will say itwas far more work than I had anticipated.Thought about giving it a number of coats of the clear coat from the T-88 folks,would toughen it up, but not sure it can handle UV.Seen Piets with wood landing gear, wood exterior sides, wood floors, etc. but notwood finished center sections.. even though most of them were wood there.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and woodOK?
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Then again it does look like it really is wood.. hmm.Is there any really good clear UV protecting polyurethanes or epoxies, or varnishesthat can hold up to the weather.. assuming the wood is strong enough to handleit I would love to keep the looks of the aluminum/wood.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Then again it does look like it really is wood.. hmm.Is there any really good clear UV protecting polyurethanes or epoxies, or varnishesthat can hold up to the weather.. assuming the wood is strong enough to handleit I would love to keep the looks of the aluminum/wood.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Dick would have to answer most of those questions, and I'm sure he will.Yes, his wings sorta look like wood, but they are fabric. But his centersection and entire fuselage is all wood covered! If you can, check out theFeb edition of Sport Aviation.Gary -----Original Message-----
Dick would have to answer most of those questions, and I'm sure he will.Yes, his wings sorta look like wood, but they are fabric. But his centersection and entire fuselage is all wood covered! If you can, check out theFeb edition of Sport Aviation.Gary -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
Original Posted By: "chase143"
There's a short link/video on AvWeb about the Warner LSA Convertible - Piet alike...http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/a ... 197650Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and woodOK?
There's a short link/video on AvWeb about the Warner LSA Convertible - Piet alike...http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/a ... 197650Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and woodOK?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
Original Posted By: "jimd"
Jim,Be aware, the alclad is the protective coating on the outside of aircraft aluminum,it needs to be primed to prevent corrosion. In building aluminum aircraft(RVs for instance) any scratches that go thru the alclad are generally concerning,and even if considered non-structural, should be treated and primed withina few weeks, otherwise the scratch will be susceptible to corrosion. Not ahuge deal, but worth a quick shot of self etching primer.My 2 cents....Steve C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and woodOK?
Jim,Be aware, the alclad is the protective coating on the outside of aircraft aluminum,it needs to be primed to prevent corrosion. In building aluminum aircraft(RVs for instance) any scratches that go thru the alclad are generally concerning,and even if considered non-structural, should be treated and primed withina few weeks, otherwise the scratch will be susceptible to corrosion. Not ahuge deal, but worth a quick shot of self etching primer.My 2 cents....Steve C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and woodOK?
Pietenpol-List: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake?
Original Posted By: "MikeD"
Regarding the alclad.. the inside surface is fine, it was the outside exposed surfacethat I scraped, then sanded and polished. My intention is to have a polishedaluminum exterior surface, like that on Airstream campers and many Luscombes.If I were painting it or I endup covering it, I would etch and prime it.Had I known how much work it was going to be I would have etched and primed thesmall shiny spot from removing the tape, then covered over it. Seeing the mirrorfinish with the wood makes me want it to be finished that way, it really isnice. Wondered how to deal with fairings around it, so when I went to Stewart Systemsfabric class I asked about it, and they suggested using thin sheet metal forfairings, (I was considering thick leather) and maintaining the wings color forthe fairing strips. That way the polished metal section and the wood sectionscould attach to the wings cleanly and the gaps would be handled well, and itwould be pretty easy to attach and remove the fairings.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake?
Regarding the alclad.. the inside surface is fine, it was the outside exposed surfacethat I scraped, then sanded and polished. My intention is to have a polishedaluminum exterior surface, like that on Airstream campers and many Luscombes.If I were painting it or I endup covering it, I would etch and prime it.Had I known how much work it was going to be I would have etched and primed thesmall shiny spot from removing the tape, then covered over it. Seeing the mirrorfinish with the wood makes me want it to be finished that way, it really isnice. Wondered how to deal with fairings around it, so when I went to Stewart Systemsfabric class I asked about it, and they suggested using thin sheet metal forfairings, (I was considering thick leather) and maintaining the wings color forthe fairing strips. That way the polished metal section and the wood sectionscould attach to the wings cleanly and the gaps would be handled well, and itwould be pretty easy to attach and remove the fairings.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Dumb wing spar mistake?
Original Posted By: "Rick Holland"
owen5819(at)comcast.net wrote:> MikeD wrote:> > > To me, if the three holes are acceptable where they are supposed to be, theyshould be acceptable where they are accidentally - since nothing actually fillsthe holes to replace the tensile properties, although fasteners could beargued to at least provide some support under compression when called upon todo so. Once you add doublers no worries IMHO.> > I agree with your result, but the way you get there bothers me. For one > > > > thing, it's not just three holes now, but six. That means interrupting > twice as many of the load-carrying wood fibers and weakening the spar > (in tension) twice as much as the designer allowed for. The doublers > will take up the slack. After all, in an I-beam spar a single layer of > 1/8 ply provides most of the strength. But let's be clear about what is > going on here. One of us might have a project someday where it really > does make a difference.> > OwenI think you are reading too much into my reply. I didn't suggest that any sparthrough-hole mistakes are acceptable. They obviously are not. I inferred fromthe decription that since the holes were laid out for the same bracket, and thespar was rotated about the spanwise midpoint by 180 degrees, the holes wouldbe in line. They certainly should be if the description is accurate. If the holesare in line axially then significantly few new fibres are cut, assuming youhave a decent piece of spar stock with a majority of axial fibres to beginwith. Therefore, in this circumstance, I offered my opinion - all anyone can dohere - that the situation did not warrant major concern. If doubt remains thenit should be replaced or further rework made.Mike D.--------Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:07:06 -0600
owen5819(at)comcast.net wrote:> MikeD wrote:> > > To me, if the three holes are acceptable where they are supposed to be, theyshould be acceptable where they are accidentally - since nothing actually fillsthe holes to replace the tensile properties, although fasteners could beargued to at least provide some support under compression when called upon todo so. Once you add doublers no worries IMHO.> > I agree with your result, but the way you get there bothers me. For one > > > > thing, it's not just three holes now, but six. That means interrupting > twice as many of the load-carrying wood fibers and weakening the spar > (in tension) twice as much as the designer allowed for. The doublers > will take up the slack. After all, in an I-beam spar a single layer of > 1/8 ply provides most of the strength. But let's be clear about what is > going on here. One of us might have a project someday where it really > does make a difference.> > OwenI think you are reading too much into my reply. I didn't suggest that any sparthrough-hole mistakes are acceptable. They obviously are not. I inferred fromthe decription that since the holes were laid out for the same bracket, and thespar was rotated about the spanwise midpoint by 180 degrees, the holes wouldbe in line. They certainly should be if the description is accurate. If the holesare in line axially then significantly few new fibres are cut, assuming youhave a decent piece of spar stock with a majority of axial fibres to beginwith. Therefore, in this circumstance, I offered my opinion - all anyone can dohere - that the situation did not warrant major concern. If doubt remains thenit should be replaced or further rework made.Mike D.--------Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 09:07:06 -0600
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
Original Posted By: "jimd"
Jim and allI just got back from Sun n Fun and am going thru 600+ e mails.The finish on my plane Fuselage and wing center section are wood covered with 2 oz. fiberglass cloth. I used 207 hardner with the West system epoxy and applied 3 finishing coats. Then I applied 4 coats of Marine Spar Varnish for UV protection on all wood surfaces. The wings are covered with Stits Poly fiber using clear Poly Brush as a base, then multiple coats of clear Poly Tone paint with an added pigment. Stits furnished me with UV additive for the paint.Dick----- Original Message -----
Jim and allI just got back from Sun n Fun and am going thru 600+ e mails.The finish on my plane Fuselage and wing center section are wood covered with 2 oz. fiberglass cloth. I used 207 hardner with the West system epoxy and applied 3 finishing coats. Then I applied 4 coats of Marine Spar Varnish for UV protection on all wood surfaces. The wings are covered with Stits Poly fiber using clear Poly Brush as a base, then multiple coats of clear Poly Tone paint with an added pigment. Stits furnished me with UV additive for the paint.Dick----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Center wing question.. polished aluminum and wood
Original Posted By:
Thanks for the info.I had thought of using the system 3 (T-88 people) clear coat, and possibly withsome kind of glass or fabric on the backside(hidden part) of the wood to strengthenit, but still was concerned about UV. Will look in to what you used.Love your plane, looks great.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:28:01 -0400
Thanks for the info.I had thought of using the system 3 (T-88 people) clear coat, and possibly withsome kind of glass or fabric on the backside(hidden part) of the wood to strengthenit, but still was concerned about UV. Will look in to what you used.Love your plane, looks great.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:28:01 -0400