Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: "Ben Charvet"
I did some reasearch into this very thing back when I worked for Steen. Manybuilders wanted to use, or already had used, thinned T-88 to seal theirwings. I got curious about whether that was really a good idea, so checkedinto it. It wasn't the worst idea ever, but not the best either.The thing about thinning epoxy with solvents (typically, T-88 with alcohol)for "sealing" purposes is that the evaporation of the solvent over time(outgassing) creates microscopic channels, bubbles, cracking, and generalporosity within the cured resin matrix as the vapors escape. This happensnot only during the curing process but also somewhat afterwards, as thetrapped solvent buried within the epoxy tries to evaporate and escape anyway it can. This is obviously counterproductive to the reason you'reapplying the stuff in the first place. While thinning epoxy with solvents iscommon, it is not (at least in theory) really such a great idea forlong-term protection against moisture, which can soak in through all thosecracks even though you can't see it.Now, whether the degradation in performance is actually enough to offset thecost of using this method, I cannot say. I suspect that there will be widevariations in porosity... even within the same batch applied at the sametime to the same part. The manufacturers often remind os that you can safelyuse heat to "thin" the epoxy for easier application, without harming it'sintegrity... but that obviously can drastically shorten the working time. Ithink it's best to start with a product that's thin enough to work with fromthe start, or at least something intended by the manufacturer to be thinnnedout. I might even consider using straight T-88, though this might be a painin the rear. For things like the inside parts of ribs (like the interiorsurfaces of gussets and the joints they hold together) I would just put T-88on the entire inside surfaces during assembly, on the assumption youwouldn't easily be able to get in there later. A thin film is more thanenough.The good news is that I can't imagine that using a highly thinned epoxycoating would be likely to actually *cause* any direct damage or anything...rather, it would just fail to provide the protection you think you'regetting, and add needless weight. I would bet that even an extremely thinnedand porous epoxy coating still provides a lot more protection to the woodagainst the elements than not doing anything at all would!-MikeMike WhaleyMerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com----- Original Message -----
I did some reasearch into this very thing back when I worked for Steen. Manybuilders wanted to use, or already had used, thinned T-88 to seal theirwings. I got curious about whether that was really a good idea, so checkedinto it. It wasn't the worst idea ever, but not the best either.The thing about thinning epoxy with solvents (typically, T-88 with alcohol)for "sealing" purposes is that the evaporation of the solvent over time(outgassing) creates microscopic channels, bubbles, cracking, and generalporosity within the cured resin matrix as the vapors escape. This happensnot only during the curing process but also somewhat afterwards, as thetrapped solvent buried within the epoxy tries to evaporate and escape anyway it can. This is obviously counterproductive to the reason you'reapplying the stuff in the first place. While thinning epoxy with solvents iscommon, it is not (at least in theory) really such a great idea forlong-term protection against moisture, which can soak in through all thosecracks even though you can't see it.Now, whether the degradation in performance is actually enough to offset thecost of using this method, I cannot say. I suspect that there will be widevariations in porosity... even within the same batch applied at the sametime to the same part. The manufacturers often remind os that you can safelyuse heat to "thin" the epoxy for easier application, without harming it'sintegrity... but that obviously can drastically shorten the working time. Ithink it's best to start with a product that's thin enough to work with fromthe start, or at least something intended by the manufacturer to be thinnnedout. I might even consider using straight T-88, though this might be a painin the rear. For things like the inside parts of ribs (like the interiorsurfaces of gussets and the joints they hold together) I would just put T-88on the entire inside surfaces during assembly, on the assumption youwouldn't easily be able to get in there later. A thin film is more thanenough.The good news is that I can't imagine that using a highly thinned epoxycoating would be likely to actually *cause* any direct damage or anything...rather, it would just fail to provide the protection you think you'regetting, and add needless weight. I would bet that even an extremely thinnedand porous epoxy coating still provides a lot more protection to the woodagainst the elements than not doing anything at all would!-MikeMike WhaleyMerlinFAC(at)cfl.rr.com----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: shad bell
Why not use the Stewart System and then use common spar varnish. It's a lot easier to use and the best part...no toxic fumes.BarryBig Piet builder The pic shows 2 center sections, 8 ailerons, 7 wing panels and 1 fuselage - the gray is Eko Fill UV and white is Eko Fill White - Stewart System ----- Original Message -----
Why not use the Stewart System and then use common spar varnish. It's a lot easier to use and the best part...no toxic fumes.BarryBig Piet builder The pic shows 2 center sections, 8 ailerons, 7 wing panels and 1 fuselage - the gray is Eko Fill UV and white is Eko Fill White - Stewart System ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: "Mike Whaley"
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnishI used standard varnish on all my parts, the rolled on poly fiber epoxy onto justthe areas where the fabric would touch. Finished the entire airframe coatingin an hour with half of my epoxy kit or more left over...Steve Eldredge- Sent from mobile device ------Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnishI used standard varnish on all my parts, the rolled on poly fiber epoxy onto justthe areas where the fabric would touch. Finished the entire airframe coatingin an hour with half of my epoxy kit or more left over...Steve Eldredge- Sent from mobile device ------Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eldredge
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnishJust to clarify.. I purchased a quart kit of epoxy and used a small roller toapply the epoxy to just the surfaces that would touch the fabric. I had halfa quart kit left over. Since then we have had to peel the fabric off the fuselage,and the epoxy coated varnished wood did not lift or suffer any damage. Much cheaper than either Epoxy everywhere or thinning T-88.Steve e.-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnishJust to clarify.. I purchased a quart kit of epoxy and used a small roller toapply the epoxy to just the surfaces that would touch the fabric. I had halfa quart kit left over. Since then we have had to peel the fabric off the fuselage,and the epoxy coated varnished wood did not lift or suffer any damage. Much cheaper than either Epoxy everywhere or thinning T-88.Steve e.-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
a possible solution that could even be used overalready existing varnish where necessary.http://www.systemthree.com/p_clear_coat.aspClif "Due to the shortage of experienced trumpet players doomsday will be postponed for 3 weeks" I had half a quart kit left over. Since then we have had to peel the fabric off the fuselage, and the epoxy coated varnished wood did not lift or suffer any damage. Much cheaper than either Epoxy everywhere or thinning T-88.>> Steve e.>>> I used standard varnish on all my parts, the rolled on poly fiber epoxy > onto just the areas where the fabric would touch. >>> Steve Eldredge> - Sent from mobile device -________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:35:01 -0800 (PST)
a possible solution that could even be used overalready existing varnish where necessary.http://www.systemthree.com/p_clear_coat.aspClif "Due to the shortage of experienced trumpet players doomsday will be postponed for 3 weeks" I had half a quart kit left over. Since then we have had to peel the fabric off the fuselage, and the epoxy coated varnished wood did not lift or suffer any damage. Much cheaper than either Epoxy everywhere or thinning T-88.>> Steve e.>>> I used standard varnish on all my parts, the rolled on poly fiber epoxy > onto just the areas where the fabric would touch. >>> Steve Eldredge> - Sent from mobile device -________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:35:01 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
RE: Pietenpol-List: epoxy varnish, Non standard practice
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: "Michael Silvius"
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Re: Pietenpol-List: epoxy varnish, Non standard practice
Original Posted By: Phillips, Jack
The only AC covering system that I am aware of that is approved without rib stitching is HIPEChttp://www.falconaravia.com/Michael ----- Original Message -----
The only AC covering system that I am aware of that is approved without rib stitching is HIPEChttp://www.falconaravia.com/Michael ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Newbie
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Greetings all, This is my first post but I have been following along for several months. I recentlypurchased a GN-1 project with steel fuselage on J-3 type gear. The fuselagewas built without variation from the drawings and workmanship seems topnotch. I am a first time builder and intend to adhere to the plans and 43-13.I intend to use a Continental without accessories. My goal is to save timewhere possible and use J-3 components such as engine mount, tank, and cowl. Cananyone here advise on this line of thinking. From what I gather I need tobe mindful of overall weight and CG. Thanks in advance and I look forward to gettingto know some of you. Mark BaxterRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Greetings all, This is my first post but I have been following along for several months. I recentlypurchased a GN-1 project with steel fuselage on J-3 type gear. The fuselagewas built without variation from the drawings and workmanship seems topnotch. I am a first time builder and intend to adhere to the plans and 43-13.I intend to use a Continental without accessories. My goal is to save timewhere possible and use J-3 components such as engine mount, tank, and cowl. Cananyone here advise on this line of thinking. From what I gather I need tobe mindful of overall weight and CG. Thanks in advance and I look forward to gettingto know some of you. Mark BaxterRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Newbie
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Welcome Mark!I'll let some of the GN-1 builders answer your technical questions. Whereare you located?Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)(12 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Welcome Mark!I'll let some of the GN-1 builders answer your technical questions. Whereare you located?Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)(12 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hi gary,Thanks for the reply, I am looking forward to getting to know some folks on the list. I am located in Corvallis, Oregon. Take care.,MarkOn Jan 30, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> >> Welcome Mark!>> I'll let some of the GN-1 builders answer your technical questions. > Where> are you located?>> Gary Boothe> Cool, Ca.> Pietenpol> WW Corvair Conversion> Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)> (12 ribs down.)> -----Original Message-----
Hi gary,Thanks for the reply, I am looking forward to getting to know some folks on the list. I am located in Corvallis, Oregon. Take care.,MarkOn Jan 30, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> >> Welcome Mark!>> I'll let some of the GN-1 builders answer your technical questions. > Where> are you located?>> Gary Boothe> Cool, Ca.> Pietenpol> WW Corvair Conversion> Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)> (12 ribs down.)> -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: shad bell
If you use Stwart system the you dont need to epoxy varnish and you cover in your house ... No smell. I like poly fiber but I will allways use the stwart system form now on. We have covered 6 peit wings, tail feathers and one fus. I now think stweart system is the best water clean up too! ----- Original Message -----
If you use Stwart system the you dont need to epoxy varnish and you cover in your house ... No smell. I like poly fiber but I will allways use the stwart system form now on. We have covered 6 peit wings, tail feathers and one fus. I now think stweart system is the best water clean up too! ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: Frank Metcalfe
Frank, can you use the stewart system to make repairs, like patches, on previosly coated fabrick with poly brush or polytac. Gardiner ----- Original Message -----
Frank, can you use the stewart system to make repairs, like patches, on previosly coated fabrick with poly brush or polytac. Gardiner ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie
Original Posted By: "Mark Baxter"
Welcome MarkHave you been to OSH or Sun n Fun? The fly marts there are great for finding used parts and saving big $. Also, have you been to the Barnstormers web site. You will find lots of deals there also.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Welcome MarkHave you been to OSH or Sun n Fun? The fly marts there are great for finding used parts and saving big $. Also, have you been to the Barnstormers web site. You will find lots of deals there also.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie
Original Posted By:> ----- Original Message ----- "Mark Baxter"
Hi Dick,I went to OSH and Brodhead for the first time last summer. I enjoyed Brodhead tremendously! I am going to try and get back this summer. Thanks for the reply.MarkOn Jan 30, 2009, at 6:04 PM, Dick N. wrote:> >> Welcome Mark> Have you been to OSH or Sun n Fun? The fly marts there are great > for finding used parts and saving big $. Also, have you been to > the Barnstormers web site. You will find lots of deals there also.> Dick N.
Hi Dick,I went to OSH and Brodhead for the first time last summer. I enjoyed Brodhead tremendously! I am going to try and get back this summer. Thanks for the reply.MarkOn Jan 30, 2009, at 6:04 PM, Dick N. wrote:> >> Welcome Mark> Have you been to OSH or Sun n Fun? The fly marts there are great > for finding used parts and saving big $. Also, have you been to > the Barnstormers web site. You will find lots of deals there also.> Dick N.
Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie
Original Posted By: "CHRISTINE BAXTER"
Ye Haw, another West Coast builder. Too bad your so far north.ChrisSacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.com----- Original Message -----
Ye Haw, another West Coast builder. Too bad your so far north.ChrisSacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.com----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Squeezing 4130
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Hi AllI have started welding my metal parts tonight I welded the first rudder pedal I then cold squeezed the ends as per the plans and got cracks along the side ofthe squeezed section.I think that I could fix it by welding the crack but should I have done somethingdifferent like heating the metal first and if so how hot should I get it.ThanksCarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Squeezing 4130
Hi AllI have started welding my metal parts tonight I welded the first rudder pedal I then cold squeezed the ends as per the plans and got cracks along the side ofthe squeezed section.I think that I could fix it by welding the crack but should I have done somethingdifferent like heating the metal first and if so how hot should I get it.ThanksCarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Squeezing 4130
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Yes, heat it to a nice cherry red, then squeeze it. I made a set of jaws for myvise that are radiused at the ends so as to get a nice transition from roundtube to flat end. Once you squeeze it though all of the heat immediately leavesthe piece and goes into the vise or whatever you are squeezing with and makesthe part hard and brittle (loses its toughness). That big chunk of steel(vise) acts as a quench. So you then want to heat the flattened end back up toa cherry red and slowly pull the flame away and let it cool slowly and the hardnesswill go away and most importantly the toughness will come back.Good Luck!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Yes, heat it to a nice cherry red, then squeeze it. I made a set of jaws for myvise that are radiused at the ends so as to get a nice transition from roundtube to flat end. Once you squeeze it though all of the heat immediately leavesthe piece and goes into the vise or whatever you are squeezing with and makesthe part hard and brittle (loses its toughness). That big chunk of steel(vise) acts as a quench. So you then want to heat the flattened end back up toa cherry red and slowly pull the flame away and let it cool slowly and the hardnesswill go away and most importantly the toughness will come back.Good Luck!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Carson,For all the squeezed tubes (and there are a lot of them in a pietenpol) youdefinitely want to heat the tube to yellow heat, then quickly put it in thejaws of the vise and squeeze. Most require multiple applications of heatand squeeze or you will crack the tube. I made a set of angle iron insertsfor the jaws of my vise to get enough smooth surface area to cover the tube(remember, it spreads as you squeeze it). I made some of the angle ironwith a bent flange to handle the tubes that need to be squeezed and bent(like the spreader bars on the straight axle gear).Tony Bingelis showed how to do this in one of the books - I think it was inthe EAA Aircraft Welding book.Good Luck,Jack PhillipsNX899JP-----Original Message-----
Carson,For all the squeezed tubes (and there are a lot of them in a pietenpol) youdefinitely want to heat the tube to yellow heat, then quickly put it in thejaws of the vise and squeeze. Most require multiple applications of heatand squeeze or you will crack the tube. I made a set of angle iron insertsfor the jaws of my vise to get enough smooth surface area to cover the tube(remember, it spreads as you squeeze it). I made some of the angle ironwith a bent flange to handle the tubes that need to be squeezed and bent(like the spreader bars on the straight axle gear).Tony Bingelis showed how to do this in one of the books - I think it was inthe EAA Aircraft Welding book.Good Luck,Jack PhillipsNX899JP-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Carson,I would defer to Jack and Bill any time, but without the benefit of theirinput, I made inserts of 12ga 4130 for each of the ends. This seemed to beenough to keep the cracks from forming and beefed up the bearing surfacesignificantly. After crimping, I welded the ends by fusing the piecestogether.Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)(12 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Carson,I would defer to Jack and Bill any time, but without the benefit of theirinput, I made inserts of 12ga 4130 for each of the ends. This seemed to beenough to keep the cracks from forming and beefed up the bearing surfacesignificantly. After crimping, I welded the ends by fusing the piecestogether.Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)(12 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Pietenpol-List: Re: epoxy varnish, Non standard practice
Original Posted By: "jimd"
Been doing a lot of epoxy varnishing lately, and I am using a number of StewartSystems products on my plane. The Biplane forum website had a Skybolt constructionmanual they offer for $45, and I thought it looked good so I bought it.Their was a whole section on T-88 and Clear Coat, which sounded interesting. TheT-88 and Clear Coat are both by System 3, think everyone knows what T-88 is,but the Clear Coat is super low viscosity epoxy varnish, it mixes up 2 to 1,instead of 1 to 1 like T-88. The cool thing is that it is compatible with T-88,so you can varnish, then follow up by using T-88 without having to leave cleanwood where you will glue, that kind of thing.Anyway, I thought about using Stewart Systems 1 part polyurethane on wood, butdecided that I wanted something that would soak in and strengthen the wood andI have seen a lot of polyurethane's separate and wanted no part of that. Thecost of all the 2 part epoxy varnishes is high, so for the areas that were notgoing to have fabric glued to them I used regular spar varnish. Well, after seeing the difference between doing Clear Coat and regular varnish,I have been considering putting Clear Coat on everything, it is really impressivestuff. Looks almost like bar coat polyurethane, but it sinks in to the wood.I put one thin coat on then make a second coat later and it looks/feels likeit is smooth plastic. The first coat kind of disappears except for certainshiny spots, which is why it seems to be sinking in to the wood.I have 4 wing panels to cover (biplane GN-1) the gluing surfaces on and think myquart size Clear Coat will do it, and it was about $38, so it would easily handlea regular wing. Did a google shopping search on it and found that you canget 3 quart size (2 quart bottles of one component and 1 of the other) for justover $100. That should be enough to do a whole plane and if I had not justfinished doing the whole thing with spar varnish is what I would do.As to the Stewart Systems stuff; Their glue is great, EkoBond, it works well, doesn'tsmell and I did my ailerons with it in my dining room and will be doingwings one at a time in my living room, it is that easy to deal with. It is waterbased and works great so long as it is not super humid, if it is rainy outit takes forever to dry. They have EkoFill which is a latex primer they use thatis okay, pricey and I may not use it, I know latex works and the best stuffis about $40 a gal and would give me about $450-500 total in materials goingthat way, so that is the plan. Their waterborne polyurethane when applied rightlooks as good as any other polyurethane, but I am not going for the wet look.Before jumping on me about Latex, check out the KC Dawn patrol site, thoseguys are in my area and have a whole fleet of biplanes finished with Stewart Systemsproducts and Latex.I will try to get some pics posted to show the Clear Coat, its neat.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: epoxy varnish, Non standard practice
Been doing a lot of epoxy varnishing lately, and I am using a number of StewartSystems products on my plane. The Biplane forum website had a Skybolt constructionmanual they offer for $45, and I thought it looked good so I bought it.Their was a whole section on T-88 and Clear Coat, which sounded interesting. TheT-88 and Clear Coat are both by System 3, think everyone knows what T-88 is,but the Clear Coat is super low viscosity epoxy varnish, it mixes up 2 to 1,instead of 1 to 1 like T-88. The cool thing is that it is compatible with T-88,so you can varnish, then follow up by using T-88 without having to leave cleanwood where you will glue, that kind of thing.Anyway, I thought about using Stewart Systems 1 part polyurethane on wood, butdecided that I wanted something that would soak in and strengthen the wood andI have seen a lot of polyurethane's separate and wanted no part of that. Thecost of all the 2 part epoxy varnishes is high, so for the areas that were notgoing to have fabric glued to them I used regular spar varnish. Well, after seeing the difference between doing Clear Coat and regular varnish,I have been considering putting Clear Coat on everything, it is really impressivestuff. Looks almost like bar coat polyurethane, but it sinks in to the wood.I put one thin coat on then make a second coat later and it looks/feels likeit is smooth plastic. The first coat kind of disappears except for certainshiny spots, which is why it seems to be sinking in to the wood.I have 4 wing panels to cover (biplane GN-1) the gluing surfaces on and think myquart size Clear Coat will do it, and it was about $38, so it would easily handlea regular wing. Did a google shopping search on it and found that you canget 3 quart size (2 quart bottles of one component and 1 of the other) for justover $100. That should be enough to do a whole plane and if I had not justfinished doing the whole thing with spar varnish is what I would do.As to the Stewart Systems stuff; Their glue is great, EkoBond, it works well, doesn'tsmell and I did my ailerons with it in my dining room and will be doingwings one at a time in my living room, it is that easy to deal with. It is waterbased and works great so long as it is not super humid, if it is rainy outit takes forever to dry. They have EkoFill which is a latex primer they use thatis okay, pricey and I may not use it, I know latex works and the best stuffis about $40 a gal and would give me about $450-500 total in materials goingthat way, so that is the plan. Their waterborne polyurethane when applied rightlooks as good as any other polyurethane, but I am not going for the wet look.Before jumping on me about Latex, check out the KC Dawn patrol site, thoseguys are in my area and have a whole fleet of biplanes finished with Stewart Systemsproducts and Latex.I will try to get some pics posted to show the Clear Coat, its neat.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: epoxy varnish, Non standard practice
Original Posted By: H RULE
I would rib stitch anyway for other reasons, it holds everything together rightby each rib.Les say you whack a duck and break a rib, the stitching would probably hold therib in about the right place anyway. (We might have to assume the duck was goingopposite direction, on a windy day I am not sure Piets can overtake ducks..)however the broken rib by itself wouldn't have much going for it. Try peelingsome cloth off a piece of wood that has been glued with fabric glue, in shearit comes off pretty easy, even the good stuff. However the stitches are tough.But here is the other reason I would do it anyway, it is kind of fun to stitchribs. I wanted to avoid before taking a covering class, but found it was fun.The StaggerWing knot is easy, so are doing individual stitches, some of the otherones are tricky to get right but you only need to learn one way and a wholewing panel takes maybe 4 hours to do. Piet one piece one would take a while,but not much time compared to even varnishing.If you skipped doing the rib lacing, would you be skipping taping over each ribas well? That would seem to be really reducing the amount of material and glueholding everything together.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 18:07:22 -0800 (PST)
I would rib stitch anyway for other reasons, it holds everything together rightby each rib.Les say you whack a duck and break a rib, the stitching would probably hold therib in about the right place anyway. (We might have to assume the duck was goingopposite direction, on a windy day I am not sure Piets can overtake ducks..)however the broken rib by itself wouldn't have much going for it. Try peelingsome cloth off a piece of wood that has been glued with fabric glue, in shearit comes off pretty easy, even the good stuff. However the stitches are tough.But here is the other reason I would do it anyway, it is kind of fun to stitchribs. I wanted to avoid before taking a covering class, but found it was fun.The StaggerWing knot is easy, so are doing individual stitches, some of the otherones are tricky to get right but you only need to learn one way and a wholewing panel takes maybe 4 hours to do. Piet one piece one would take a while,but not much time compared to even varnishing.If you skipped doing the rib lacing, would you be skipping taping over each ribas well? That would seem to be really reducing the amount of material and glueholding everything together.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 18:07:22 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Alternative epoxy varnish
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Alternative epoxy varnish
Pietenpol-List: Re: Alternative epoxy varnish
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
I misspoke earlier, I meant peel not shear, it is easy to peel fabric, it is veryhard to pull it off with a shear pull..Anyway, how am I doing aluminum/steel. I have aluminum trailing edges, believeyou are supposed to etch them then coat them with epoxy varnish, then EkoBond.I don't have any steel that is to get covered, with the possible exception ofa few steel fittings that are cadmium plated and coated with epoxy varnish, theywill be masked for covering then roughed up a little before painting to getpaint to stick better.Have an aluminum cowling, it was painted before I took on the project, so I don'tknow exactly what was done with it. Would love to find a way to make all thefittings/flying wires/exposed turnbuckles look like Brass, but they are notgood candidates for faux finishes. Bought a can of Brass paint to experiment with(have some spare parts/cables) but low expectations. Generally anything thatwill really stick well to the fittings weakens them, like etching/plating/anodizing/powdercoating, they all are not a good idea on critical metal parts,from what I have read. Personally, I have had great results on fabric with Stewart Systems Polyurethane(in class, but it amazed me.. looked good) and good with Latex on my own, buthave never been happy with the way anything I painted came out on metal, seemseasy to get runs/sags or it looks great and then peels later. Those questionsare great ones for a teacher when you take a class. Would highly recommendone of the three day classes. Did the Stewart Systems one in Cashmere, WA.. fun,scary adventure (blizzard in mountains when I went) and learned a lot. The pic on this is my little class project, but it came out very good. It is polyurethane.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ______Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 06:36:18 -0800 (PST)
I misspoke earlier, I meant peel not shear, it is easy to peel fabric, it is veryhard to pull it off with a shear pull..Anyway, how am I doing aluminum/steel. I have aluminum trailing edges, believeyou are supposed to etch them then coat them with epoxy varnish, then EkoBond.I don't have any steel that is to get covered, with the possible exception ofa few steel fittings that are cadmium plated and coated with epoxy varnish, theywill be masked for covering then roughed up a little before painting to getpaint to stick better.Have an aluminum cowling, it was painted before I took on the project, so I don'tknow exactly what was done with it. Would love to find a way to make all thefittings/flying wires/exposed turnbuckles look like Brass, but they are notgood candidates for faux finishes. Bought a can of Brass paint to experiment with(have some spare parts/cables) but low expectations. Generally anything thatwill really stick well to the fittings weakens them, like etching/plating/anodizing/powdercoating, they all are not a good idea on critical metal parts,from what I have read. Personally, I have had great results on fabric with Stewart Systems Polyurethane(in class, but it amazed me.. looked good) and good with Latex on my own, buthave never been happy with the way anything I painted came out on metal, seemseasy to get runs/sags or it looks great and then peels later. Those questionsare great ones for a teacher when you take a class. Would highly recommendone of the three day classes. Did the Stewart Systems one in Cashmere, WA.. fun,scary adventure (blizzard in mountains when I went) and learned a lot. The pic on this is my little class project, but it came out very good. It is polyurethane.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ______Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 06:36:18 -0800 (PST)