Original Posted By: Matt Redmond
Subject: Pietenpol-List: MERFI, 9 days awayGuys, Who plans on going to the mid eastern regional fly-in on the Sat the 12th?=C2- It is at Urbana Grimes Airport.=C2- They do have grass, and pavement.=C2- I am planning on flying over, leaving around 9am or so.=C2- So if any of you want to fly over togeather let me know, I can even gas you up here at centerburg (100LL).=C2- I went last year and had a pretty good time, but the weather was kind of crapy in the a.m.=C2- Let me know, my buddy might fly over with his cub as well, so I might have to go practice my "slower" flight to keep from out running him.=C2-Missing out on the good flying weather due to replacing all the brake lines on my truck, and fixing the rear bumper on my wifes car, and no they are not related.Shad=== =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2=AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=9D=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3=87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BEy=C2=ABn=C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3=98^=84=A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3=8B=C5=93=C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5-=BAb=C2=A2p=C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92'=93-=EF=BD=C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A,=C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7=EF=BD=C2=A8ky=C3=B1=C2=B6=C3=9A=C30=84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=B3=C3=A2z=C3=97=C2=A7=C2=B0K=C5-=C3=8Ba=C2=B6=C3=9A=C30=84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC=C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=B3=C3=A2z=C3=97=C2=A7=C2=B0K=C5-=C3=8Bl4N4=82=AC=99X@E9L=C5=A1=84=A2=C3=A8+y=C2=AB=C2=A2{^=C5=BE=C3'=C2=A5=C2=B2-=C2=AFj)ZnW=C2=AF=B0=C2=ABayg=BA=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3~=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1=C3=89=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2hm=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3~=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1=C3=89=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2o=C3=9A=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3=90=C2=A8=C5=BE=C3=9A=C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2u=C5=BEm(=C2=AD|=C3=A1jy2=C2=A2=C3=A7=C3=A8=C2=AF*.=C2=AE=C2=A7z=C2=BA.=C2=B2=C3=8B=C2=A9=C2=C5-=C3=AD=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 22:52:52 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
Original Posted By: Matt Redmond
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
Original Posted By: Robert Ray
I can't wait! Jack's video and now your vivid description. I want to fly too!I did what I could... several hours of work this weekend.--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:04:19 -0400Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
I can't wait! Jack's video and now your vivid description. I want to fly too!I did what I could... several hours of work this weekend.--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:04:19 -0400Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Original Posted By: Robert Ray
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine
Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
Original Posted By: Robert Ray
Here is the link to the website:http://www.flitzerbiplane.com/Greg C. ----- Original Message -----
Here is the link to the website:http://www.flitzerbiplane.com/Greg C. ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
Original Posted By: Robert Ray
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
timothywillis(at)earthlin wrote:> Matt,> > You ARE missing something-- about four or more years of intermittent discussionof alternative airfoils, whether NACA 2412, Clark Y or USA 35B, or most notablyRiblett airfoils, and among the last the Riblett 612 in particular. > > The 612 has a more bulbuous nose (bigger radius) and is thicker (taller, moreY-axis) at its thickest part, than the Piet rib. The "12" in "612" means thatthe highest Y is about 12 percent of the length of the chord, whereas the Pietairfoil is about 8 percent, sometimes stated as "7 percent," but it seems higherto me (from memory, not looking at either a rib or a drawing, sorry). > > People using the NACA 2412 or Riblett 612 claim higher cruising speeds, similarclimb rates, and softer stalls on landing flare than if using the Pietenpoloriginal-- BP's FC 10. Several builders are now building the Riblett ribs andwill use that wing. Lowell Frank is likely the only builder and flier who haschanged wings on the same plane, and flown them both, so as to have comparativedata.> > Several people have run comparative airfoils through X.foil and the like, andif you are interested in that, take a look at airfoil.com, checking the archivesand attached files there. I don't think anyone has ever run a wing basedon a Riblett or a Piet FC 10 through a wind tunnel. If so, please correct me.Riblett himself speaks poorly of the Pietenpol airfoil, but then he doesn'tspeak well of NACA, either. A few builders have spoken with him, and he recommendsthe 2412 among NACA airfoils, but especially either his 612 or 613.5 airfoilsfor a Pietenpol. > > Check the matronics Piet archives for more info and discussion. Include in yourreading pitching moments, center of lift, and the like, which has all beenwell discussed on this site.> > Guys: Is there anyone out there that might, someday try to- or might have tostretch a glide path a little farther to make it over a tree, wire, corn field,or many obstacles to make a safe landing ?The 612 can help.> During my numerous talks with Mr Pietenpol he always invited new thoughts anideas, he never discouraged me when I asked him if I could turn a Ford upsidedown on a Pietenpol to have better vision, He said, " You might look at a Funkinstallation". I did, and She is still flying with the Ford type (Funk) inverted.> Mr Pietenpol also told me that he tested a shorter airfoil and was not satisfied,he said that he never told too many others, maybe Vi .> It took me five years to proceed on the 612, from the first conversations withHarry Riblett in 1992, Some of you fellows will try it, some will not, All Ihave to say is just fly it once, you will see what I have been talking about.> I to have flown the Pietenpol airfoil for many years, and enjoyed every minute,wouldn't trade those flights for anything.> Pieti Lowell> > > Judge for yourself, but please first read the many, many posts. I have "givenat the office" on this one myself, and have little interest in opining furtheruntil I have flown the same plane with different wing sets, which I may do,but first things first. > > Tim in central TX> > > > > --> Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 22:13:34 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
timothywillis(at)earthlin wrote:> Matt,> > You ARE missing something-- about four or more years of intermittent discussionof alternative airfoils, whether NACA 2412, Clark Y or USA 35B, or most notablyRiblett airfoils, and among the last the Riblett 612 in particular. > > The 612 has a more bulbuous nose (bigger radius) and is thicker (taller, moreY-axis) at its thickest part, than the Piet rib. The "12" in "612" means thatthe highest Y is about 12 percent of the length of the chord, whereas the Pietairfoil is about 8 percent, sometimes stated as "7 percent," but it seems higherto me (from memory, not looking at either a rib or a drawing, sorry). > > People using the NACA 2412 or Riblett 612 claim higher cruising speeds, similarclimb rates, and softer stalls on landing flare than if using the Pietenpoloriginal-- BP's FC 10. Several builders are now building the Riblett ribs andwill use that wing. Lowell Frank is likely the only builder and flier who haschanged wings on the same plane, and flown them both, so as to have comparativedata.> > Several people have run comparative airfoils through X.foil and the like, andif you are interested in that, take a look at airfoil.com, checking the archivesand attached files there. I don't think anyone has ever run a wing basedon a Riblett or a Piet FC 10 through a wind tunnel. If so, please correct me.Riblett himself speaks poorly of the Pietenpol airfoil, but then he doesn'tspeak well of NACA, either. A few builders have spoken with him, and he recommendsthe 2412 among NACA airfoils, but especially either his 612 or 613.5 airfoilsfor a Pietenpol. > > Check the matronics Piet archives for more info and discussion. Include in yourreading pitching moments, center of lift, and the like, which has all beenwell discussed on this site.> > Guys: Is there anyone out there that might, someday try to- or might have tostretch a glide path a little farther to make it over a tree, wire, corn field,or many obstacles to make a safe landing ?The 612 can help.> During my numerous talks with Mr Pietenpol he always invited new thoughts anideas, he never discouraged me when I asked him if I could turn a Ford upsidedown on a Pietenpol to have better vision, He said, " You might look at a Funkinstallation". I did, and She is still flying with the Ford type (Funk) inverted.> Mr Pietenpol also told me that he tested a shorter airfoil and was not satisfied,he said that he never told too many others, maybe Vi .> It took me five years to proceed on the 612, from the first conversations withHarry Riblett in 1992, Some of you fellows will try it, some will not, All Ihave to say is just fly it once, you will see what I have been talking about.> I to have flown the Pietenpol airfoil for many years, and enjoyed every minute,wouldn't trade those flights for anything.> Pieti Lowell> > > Judge for yourself, but please first read the many, many posts. I have "givenat the office" on this one myself, and have little interest in opining furtheruntil I have flown the same plane with different wing sets, which I may do,but first things first. > > Tim in central TX> > > > > --> Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 22:13:34 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
Original Posted By: Robert Ray
00 =0A>=0A>=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940=0A>From: mdredmond(at)gmail.com=0A>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A>=0A>=0A>Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast, but it just seems to me that for most guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean, really, is an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to matter on the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safety-related changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad stall characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).=0A> =0A>I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared in making that as fast and light as possible, but trying to eke climb or cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you have a specific need.=0A> =0A>Matt=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Doug Dever wrote:=0A>=0A>Matt,=0A>> =0A>>If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed, and I think it is since I have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read better climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).=0A>> =0A>>Me, I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Model A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.=0A>> =0A>>Just my .02=0A>>=0A>>Doug Dever=0A>>In beautiful Stow Ohio=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A >With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. =0A>=0A>=0A>" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ast">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ____=0AGet back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. =0A=0A=0A_-==========================================0A=0A=0A __________________________________________________________________=0ALooking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! =0A=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/gift/___________________ ... ______Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 21:50:53 -0400Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?
00 =0A>=0A>=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940=0A>From: mdredmond(at)gmail.com=0A>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com=0A>=0A>=0A>Okay. I didn't mean to awake a beast, but it just seems to me that for most guys' missions sticking to the plans is reasonable. I mean, really, is an extra thirty seconds to get to a thousand feet really going to matter on the average Sunday morning? I can certainly understand making safety-related changes like significantly reducing landing speed or taming bad stall characteristics (to the extent they even exist in the Piet).=0A> =0A>I'm also building an RV and no reasonable effort or expense will be spared in making that as fast and light as possible, but trying to eke climb or cruise performance out of Pietenpol seems a bit ridiculous to me unless you have a specific need.=0A> =0A>Matt=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Doug Dever wrote:=0A>=0A>Matt,=0A>> =0A>>If Pieti Lowells performance is to be believed, and I think it is since I have seen videos of him taking off. Then you would gain more lift (Read better climb) and a lower stall speed since the 613.5 and the 612 stall at a higher angle of attack. I wonder though if most of the performance doesn't come from his highly modified Model A (close to 90hp).=0A>> =0A>>Me, I'm going with the std airfoil. I will seek Lowel's advice on the Model A though. I can always build a different wing for not a lot of $ down the road. I agree with mike cuy. Just put a longer wing on it.=0A>> =0A>>Just my .02=0A>>=0A>>Doug Dever=0A>>In beautiful Stow Ohio=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A >With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. =0A>=0A>=0A>" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0A>a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ast">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... ____=0AGet back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. =0A=0A=0A_-==========================================0A=0A=0A __________________________________________________________________=0ALooking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! =0A=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/gift/___________________ ... ______Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 21:50:53 -0400Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paintmaybe ?