Original Posted By: "Jack"
This oddity is from Henri Mignet, who apparently felt that a wingspan of seven feet was enough. Especially if there were six of them.Powered by a flat-four, it was built in 1935.http://www.rbantiques.com/AC4804.htmDavid Paule ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Not a Piet, Thankfully
Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
Original Posted By: "skellytown flyer"
Has anyone ever tried a lifting airfoil for the tail? I did this for manyof my RC's and it helped a bunch. The tail would come up faster and itseemed to improve the pitch control.JackDSMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?sounds like it needs that attitude to maintain level flight. the wingnaturally has to be at a certain angle of attack at a given weight andspeed.are you holding any forward stick pressure? might be possible to raisethe leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer a little to reduce the downelevator and clean it up a little but probably wouldn't gain much unlessyou're maintaining pressure on the stick or have a trim tab doing it.RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
Has anyone ever tried a lifting airfoil for the tail? I did this for manyof my RC's and it helped a bunch. The tail would come up faster and itseemed to improve the pitch control.JackDSMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?sounds like it needs that attitude to maintain level flight. the wingnaturally has to be at a certain angle of attack at a given weight andspeed.are you holding any forward stick pressure? might be possible to raisethe leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer a little to reduce the downelevator and clean it up a little but probably wouldn't gain much unlessyou're maintaining pressure on the stick or have a trim tab doing it.RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
Original Posted By: "Mike"
Sounds really odd that you are holding quite a bit of back pressure and the elevatorsare still in the down position? if they were up I'd think maybe the weightand balance was too far forward but I don't know why they would be down withback stick pressure.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Sounds really odd that you are holding quite a bit of back pressure and the elevatorsare still in the down position? if they were up I'd think maybe the weightand balance was too far forward but I don't know why they would be down withback stick pressure.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
The airflow at the horizontal is almost never aligned with the longitudinalaxis of the fuselage because it is very much affected by downwash from thewing. The elevators may have to be even further out of alignment with thehorizontal in order to be at neutral pitch input.-----Original Message-----
The airflow at the horizontal is almost never aligned with the longitudinalaxis of the fuselage because it is very much affected by downwash from thewing. The elevators may have to be even further out of alignment with thehorizontal in order to be at neutral pitch input.-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?> > the Fleet Bi-plane that is about 20 miles from here has a upward > lifting tail.(I think)I don't think they were a very popular idea. > probably because if it lost lift you could drop the tail causing the wingto stall quickly.seems like they said it could be very interesting to land.> they put it over on it's back last year and have not got it re- built > yet.but I think it was because they switched to disc brakes and > probably got to heavy footed. Raymond> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 897#289897> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:25:32 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?> > the Fleet Bi-plane that is about 20 miles from here has a upward > lifting tail.(I think)I don't think they were a very popular idea. > probably because if it lost lift you could drop the tail causing the wingto stall quickly.seems like they said it could be very interesting to land.> they put it over on it's back last year and have not got it re- built > yet.but I think it was because they switched to disc brakes and > probably got to heavy footed. Raymond> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 897#289897> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:25:32 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Any conventional airplane that is STABLE in pitch will have some downforceat the tail, whether or not it is felt at the stick.A "drooping" elevator may still produce a downforce because the airflow atthe tail is affected significantly by the wing's downwash.Mike Hardaway-----Original Message-----
Any conventional airplane that is STABLE in pitch will have some downforceat the tail, whether or not it is felt at the stick.A "drooping" elevator may still produce a downforce because the airflow atthe tail is affected significantly by the wing's downwash.Mike Hardaway-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Not a Piet, Thankfully
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Maybe the subject needs to change, but that is why the lifting tail never caughton I'm sure.where a normal down loaded tail will lose it's ability to pull thetail down or could- and let the tail come up un-loading the wing to decreasea stall- the lifting tail would do just the opposite.letting the tail fall andincreasing the angle of attack and bringing on a stall condition.at least that'sthe reason I think most designers got away from it.I am thinking the DC-3may also have used it at least in some models.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:22:32 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Not a Piet, Thankfully
Maybe the subject needs to change, but that is why the lifting tail never caughton I'm sure.where a normal down loaded tail will lose it's ability to pull thetail down or could- and let the tail come up un-loading the wing to decreasea stall- the lifting tail would do just the opposite.letting the tail fall andincreasing the angle of attack and bringing on a stall condition.at least that'sthe reason I think most designers got away from it.I am thinking the DC-3may also have used it at least in some models.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:22:32 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Not a Piet, Thankfully
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Elevator droop in level flight?
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Let's all remember what camber does: it slightly increases the total lift coefficient and it changes the lift coefficient for minimum drag from zero to a different number.Since elevators move the total lift coefficient is mostly controlled by that, although camber will affect it too.The stalling angle is mostly controlled by the aspect ratio, which controls the lift-curve slope. (The horizontal tail's aspect ratio is usually chosen so that there's no hazard of it stalling before the wing, after accounting for downwash, slipstream and whatever.)So the main effect remaining is the minimum drag of the elevator - and on a Pietenpol, that's probably pretty far down on your list of concerns.David Paule ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:25:34 -0500
Let's all remember what camber does: it slightly increases the total lift coefficient and it changes the lift coefficient for minimum drag from zero to a different number.Since elevators move the total lift coefficient is mostly controlled by that, although camber will affect it too.The stalling angle is mostly controlled by the aspect ratio, which controls the lift-curve slope. (The horizontal tail's aspect ratio is usually chosen so that there's no hazard of it stalling before the wing, after accounting for downwash, slipstream and whatever.)So the main effect remaining is the minimum drag of the elevator - and on a Pietenpol, that's probably pretty far down on your list of concerns.David Paule ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:25:34 -0500
RE: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 ballast up to gross?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Just add a passenger. The FARs allow you to carry essential crew and if thetest is to simulate carrying the weight of a passenger, then such a personis essential to the test and is legal.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Just add a passenger. The FARs allow you to carry essential crew and if thetest is to simulate carrying the weight of a passenger, then such a personis essential to the test and is legal.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 ballast up to gross?
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 ballast up to gross?
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 ballast up to gross?
Pietenpol-List: Phase 1 ballast up to gross?
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Get some empty milk jugs, install them in theairplane, then fill them with water. Thismethod is called "Corky's Revenge" ;o)Seriously though, if you do use dead weightballast, make absolutely sure it is securedin place. There have been accidents due toshifting loads in airplanes.I have thought about modifying a discardedtote-type piece of luggage (with a telescopinghandle and wheels) that would strap into thefront seat with properly located brackets orclips for the shoulder harness and lap belt,that would serve as a "carry on" for x-cflights. If you had such a piece of luggageyou could load it with weights of whateveryou have handy, even filling up heavy dutyziploc bags with ordinary sand and adding themto the suitcase as your testing progressed.It would only be roughly half the weight ofa real passenger but the location would becorrect and you could secure it. Cost isminimal- just go down to Goodwill and finda suitable piece of luggage, then add somestraps or clips for the seat belt and harnessto go through to hold it securely in place.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Get some empty milk jugs, install them in theairplane, then fill them with water. Thismethod is called "Corky's Revenge" ;o)Seriously though, if you do use dead weightballast, make absolutely sure it is securedin place. There have been accidents due toshifting loads in airplanes.I have thought about modifying a discardedtote-type piece of luggage (with a telescopinghandle and wheels) that would strap into thefront seat with properly located brackets orclips for the shoulder harness and lap belt,that would serve as a "carry on" for x-cflights. If you had such a piece of luggageyou could load it with weights of whateveryou have handy, even filling up heavy dutyziploc bags with ordinary sand and adding themto the suitcase as your testing progressed.It would only be roughly half the weight ofa real passenger but the location would becorrect and you could secure it. Cost isminimal- just go down to Goodwill and finda suitable piece of luggage, then add somestraps or clips for the seat belt and harnessto go through to hold it securely in place.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________