Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"
Pietenpol-List: Public Lumber sitka intell.
Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair motor mount
Original Posted By: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Mine is a GN-1 also and not flying yet. The previous builder set the rear holesat 15" from the face of the firewall. I am working on lightening up the tailso I may have to move the engine back a bit. Mine is hand propped with stockoil cooler and filter. Wynn suggests that minimum for this is 10 1/2" so Ihave a little to play with but a lot of work to change.Jon Coxwell--------Jon Coxwell GN-1 BuilderRecycle and preserve the planetRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Mine is a GN-1 also and not flying yet. The previous builder set the rear holesat 15" from the face of the firewall. I am working on lightening up the tailso I may have to move the engine back a bit. Mine is hand propped with stockoil cooler and filter. Wynn suggests that minimum for this is 10 1/2" so Ihave a little to play with but a lot of work to change.Jon Coxwell--------Jon Coxwell GN-1 BuilderRecycle and preserve the planetRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair motor mount
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dear sage builders, engineers,advisors and fellowlovers ...Mike,Thanks, impressive credentials I am humbled. And I do appreciate your follow up and willingness to share.Thanks again and not being argumentative, always nice to know the source of ones information. My own experience has shown a great disparity between reasonable theory and actual performance which is the reason I was looking for hard data. I guess there is none to be had.There is always the issue of too much or too little at both ends of the optimum performance curve which was the nature of my quire. Not weather it was beneficial but how much provides the optimum performance and what or where is the point of diminishing return?Having looked at wings and observed many configurations in flight I noticed that the top side of the wing on many aircraft appear to be clean and free of obstructive control devices, horns and extraneous stuff , while the underside is cluttered with control horns, cables, drop tanks etc. By observation only one could surmise that the top surface should remain the surfacethat is least obstructed. Or does it really make a difference and that lower surface of the win is used out of convenience rather then optimal performance. That distills down to: If one had a choice to interfere with a wingsurface due to adding fitting, controls, horns etc which surface would be better to hang or set junk on. The upper surface normally not obstructed or lower, normally chuck full of junk hanging from it or conversely does it really matter?I will admit I know very little about it and was hoping the collective intelligence could give me an answer on that issue as it relates to the optimization of wing surfaces and induce drag components through interferences.Doe that explain my position better and are you able to provide answers in that light as to the flight characteristics of the Piet and Piet wing? If I am going to build it I want it to have the best performance possible and would like to know how to do that. JohnIn a message dated 8/12/2010 9:27:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net writes:Agreed, my plane is not complete. I fully understand that you want real world answers, as I seek the same. If I may however, some of my statements are factual. For instance, dihedral will render high wing AC more stable. A stable AC has a better chanceof flying straight and level with little to no input from the pilot, which makes for a more relaxing long trip.Gap seals just need to fill a gap. Short section of piano hinge will be lighter then the as drawn steel hinges. Then you gap seal between them. You'll need a gap seal with the as drawnhinges anyway. To use full length piano for the gap seal just adds weight.As stated by someone else, gap seals on all control surfaces are beneficial.With respect, I am not trying to argue, I was, in fact trying to shed some light on your questions from ways that others may not have considered.For the record, I am a Mechanical Engineering Technician at NASA. (18 years) Plus 4 years US Navy as an Avionics Technician. I worked 6 years at our NASA hangar working on, modifying and flying various AC. I am an A&P.Michael PerezKaretaker Aerowww.karetakeraero.com(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:12:07 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair motor mount
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dear sage builders, engineers,advisors and fellowlovers ...Mike,Thanks, impressive credentials I am humbled. And I do appreciate your follow up and willingness to share.Thanks again and not being argumentative, always nice to know the source of ones information. My own experience has shown a great disparity between reasonable theory and actual performance which is the reason I was looking for hard data. I guess there is none to be had.There is always the issue of too much or too little at both ends of the optimum performance curve which was the nature of my quire. Not weather it was beneficial but how much provides the optimum performance and what or where is the point of diminishing return?Having looked at wings and observed many configurations in flight I noticed that the top side of the wing on many aircraft appear to be clean and free of obstructive control devices, horns and extraneous stuff , while the underside is cluttered with control horns, cables, drop tanks etc. By observation only one could surmise that the top surface should remain the surfacethat is least obstructed. Or does it really make a difference and that lower surface of the win is used out of convenience rather then optimal performance. That distills down to: If one had a choice to interfere with a wingsurface due to adding fitting, controls, horns etc which surface would be better to hang or set junk on. The upper surface normally not obstructed or lower, normally chuck full of junk hanging from it or conversely does it really matter?I will admit I know very little about it and was hoping the collective intelligence could give me an answer on that issue as it relates to the optimization of wing surfaces and induce drag components through interferences.Doe that explain my position better and are you able to provide answers in that light as to the flight characteristics of the Piet and Piet wing? If I am going to build it I want it to have the best performance possible and would like to know how to do that. JohnIn a message dated 8/12/2010 9:27:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net writes:Agreed, my plane is not complete. I fully understand that you want real world answers, as I seek the same. If I may however, some of my statements are factual. For instance, dihedral will render high wing AC more stable. A stable AC has a better chanceof flying straight and level with little to no input from the pilot, which makes for a more relaxing long trip.Gap seals just need to fill a gap. Short section of piano hinge will be lighter then the as drawn steel hinges. Then you gap seal between them. You'll need a gap seal with the as drawnhinges anyway. To use full length piano for the gap seal just adds weight.As stated by someone else, gap seals on all control surfaces are beneficial.With respect, I am not trying to argue, I was, in fact trying to shed some light on your questions from ways that others may not have considered.For the record, I am a Mechanical Engineering Technician at NASA. (18 years) Plus 4 years US Navy as an Avionics Technician. I worked 6 years at our NASA hangar working on, modifying and flying various AC. I am an A&P.Michael PerezKaretaker Aerowww.karetakeraero.com(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:12:07 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair motor mount
Re: Pietenpol-List: Dear sage builders, engineers,advisors and fellow
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dear sage builders, engineers,advisors and fellowlovers ...
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dear sage builders, engineers,advisors and fellowlovers ...
Pietenpol-List: Re: Public Lumber sitka intell.
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
Now, that's a start... the real trick is to watch it dozens of times to ensureyou have it all memorized. That way, you are ready to pull out a "nice to meetyou Mr. Brown" or "fourflusher" comment on a moments notice. It really is theonly language most of these guys recognize. If you ever hear something said, or read something written that really doesn'tmake any sense, just assume that it is from TGWP. Most of the time you will beright.--------Mark ChouinardFinishing up Wings - Working on Center SectionRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Public Lumber sitka intell.
Now, that's a start... the real trick is to watch it dozens of times to ensureyou have it all memorized. That way, you are ready to pull out a "nice to meetyou Mr. Brown" or "fourflusher" comment on a moments notice. It really is theonly language most of these guys recognize. If you ever hear something said, or read something written that really doesn'tmake any sense, just assume that it is from TGWP. Most of the time you will beright.--------Mark ChouinardFinishing up Wings - Working on Center SectionRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Public Lumber sitka intell.
Pietenpol-List: Re: Public Lumber sitka intell.
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
The $20 a board ft. was from a local shop here... and yes it would seem that isvery expensive. Needless to say, i am not going with them.Good info on the public lumber place!!As a side note, it turns out that my dad knows two others who are also just inthe "plans" stage and have not yet bought any wood. I am going to try and getall of us together, and buy all of our wood at once.... maybe get a bulk discount.:)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Public Lumber sitka intell.
The $20 a board ft. was from a local shop here... and yes it would seem that isvery expensive. Needless to say, i am not going with them.Good info on the public lumber place!!As a side note, it turns out that my dad knows two others who are also just inthe "plans" stage and have not yet bought any wood. I am going to try and getall of us together, and buy all of our wood at once.... maybe get a bulk discount.:)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Public Lumber sitka intell.
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
oh I just thought about this.....Public is selling for around $7 a board ft. and is located in MIMcCormick is selling for $9.50 and is located in Madison WI.Since i am located in Northern IL I suppose that McCormik's would be better sinceI would not have to pay for shipping, and i could inspect the wood as I boughtit.McCormik did say no on the group buy though :(Maybe they would change their mind, if we showed up with three pick up trucks 8)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
oh I just thought about this.....Public is selling for around $7 a board ft. and is located in MIMcCormick is selling for $9.50 and is located in Madison WI.Since i am located in Northern IL I suppose that McCormik's would be better sinceI would not have to pay for shipping, and i could inspect the wood as I boughtit.McCormik did say no on the group buy though :(Maybe they would change their mind, if we showed up with three pick up trucks 8)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Dear sage builders, engineers,advisors and fellow
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
My Piet has a slight amount of dihedral - about 1" per side, to prevent thedroopy wing look you are supposed to get with a straight wing (I can't sayI've ever thought they looked droopy). As Ryan said, I flew his straight(one piece) winged Pietenpol for about 500 miles and found it to be asstable as mine (not that this is saying much). In general, Piet's aren'tnoted for flying hands off in any but the smoothest air. I suspect theamount of dihedral necessary to achieve true stability would make the planelook like a giant scale free-flight model.Quit worrying about trying to make it stable - that's what the stick is for.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
My Piet has a slight amount of dihedral - about 1" per side, to prevent thedroopy wing look you are supposed to get with a straight wing (I can't sayI've ever thought they looked droopy). As Ryan said, I flew his straight(one piece) winged Pietenpol for about 500 miles and found it to be asstable as mine (not that this is saying much). In general, Piet's aren'tnoted for flying hands off in any but the smoothest air. I suspect theamount of dihedral necessary to achieve true stability would make the planelook like a giant scale free-flight model.Quit worrying about trying to make it stable - that's what the stick is for.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____