Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
In the attached photo you really can't see that the lower and side gearfittings are slanted to one side. Did others build with this slant? (Ibelieve Dave did) If so does it angle in to between the struts? So thefront one would slant back and the rear would slant forward? For the sidefitting, the bend is actually cut into the rectangle portion. Is this so alarger portion of the side bracket can be welded to the bottom plate. Ialso assume this cut and bend are the reasons the cross section drawing (topright) looks like there are actually two pieces to the side fitting weldedto the bottom plate. Sorry I can't be more clear with this. I've combedthe archives and pictures but still don't have a good understanding how itall goes together. I would appreciate any pictures that would help with myconfusion. Feel free to send to my email directly so we don't litter thelist.Thanks and have a great safe New Year!JackDSM________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
RE: Pietenpol-List: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Included some links for my second attempt. The "slanted" version would notfit and line up with cross pieces. This one is square (.090) but I'm stillnot happy with it. Even with relief holes drilled, the 110 degree bendcracked on the edge. That may not matter after welding heavily but whoknows. Thinking about using .125 4130 for the bottom plate and utilize 2pieces of .090 for the side fitting. My gear will definitely take abeating. Happy New Year AllJackDSMhttp://textors.com/IMG_7519_1600x1067.jpg http://textors.com/IMG_7520_1600x1067.jpg http://textors.com/IMG_7522_1600x1067.jpg http://textors.com/PietProject.html _____
Included some links for my second attempt. The "slanted" version would notfit and line up with cross pieces. This one is square (.090) but I'm stillnot happy with it. Even with relief holes drilled, the 110 degree bendcracked on the edge. That may not matter after welding heavily but whoknows. Thinking about using .125 4130 for the bottom plate and utilize 2pieces of .090 for the side fitting. My gear will definitely take abeating. Happy New Year AllJackDSMhttp://textors.com/IMG_7519_1600x1067.jpg http://textors.com/IMG_7520_1600x1067.jpg http://textors.com/IMG_7522_1600x1067.jpg http://textors.com/PietProject.html _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Original Posted By: "Jack"
Hey Jack,I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean by the gear fittings being"slanted". Can you explain more betterer?Anyway, regarding the parts you made - they look pretty good to me. I can't seethe cracking you're talking about, so I assume it must be very minor. Probablyvery localized at the relief holes. If that's the case, then the cracks willget swallowed up and repaired by the welds, since the drawings call for a lotof welding on these little pieces. On the other hand, if the cracking is allalong the 110 degree bend, then you've over-stressed the metal (too small a bendradius), and you effectively have two pieces rather than one. The assemblysketch in the drawing DOES look like the side fitting is made in two pieces, butI think that's just an illusion. The pieces you have made appear to match thedrawings. I'm not really sure why the drawings appear to show welding on theinside of the bend, though, since it won't really add any strength. I understandwelding on the sides of the tab, but not across the bend, which the drawingseems to show. For now, I think I'll just chalk that up to a sixteen year-oldkid doing the drawings.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hey Jack,I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean by the gear fittings being"slanted". Can you explain more betterer?Anyway, regarding the parts you made - they look pretty good to me. I can't seethe cracking you're talking about, so I assume it must be very minor. Probablyvery localized at the relief holes. If that's the case, then the cracks willget swallowed up and repaired by the welds, since the drawings call for a lotof welding on these little pieces. On the other hand, if the cracking is allalong the 110 degree bend, then you've over-stressed the metal (too small a bendradius), and you effectively have two pieces rather than one. The assemblysketch in the drawing DOES look like the side fitting is made in two pieces, butI think that's just an illusion. The pieces you have made appear to match thedrawings. I'm not really sure why the drawings appear to show welding on theinside of the bend, though, since it won't really add any strength. I understandwelding on the sides of the tab, but not across the bend, which the drawingseems to show. For now, I think I'll just chalk that up to a sixteen year-oldkid doing the drawings.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
My link is in my signature. The software was $50 and if you are a digital photoperson it is a no brainer. This type of software not only allows you to shareyour progress with family and friends, but it keeps a running tally on yourtime, materials, expenses, vendors, helpers, contacts, etc. All of it in a databasethat can be saved and backed up. No, you can't shove notes in the backof this "three-ring binder", but you will likely accumulate a variety of paperand electronic notes during the build process. Make life easy and keep an electroniclog. One more really nice thing... when it comes time for inspections,the electronic log prints out in an organized and easy to read format. I have a great Uncle that worked in the aerospace industry... he loves keepingup with my log on the web.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
My link is in my signature. The software was $50 and if you are a digital photoperson it is a no brainer. This type of software not only allows you to shareyour progress with family and friends, but it keeps a running tally on yourtime, materials, expenses, vendors, helpers, contacts, etc. All of it in a databasethat can be saved and backed up. No, you can't shove notes in the backof this "three-ring binder", but you will likely accumulate a variety of paperand electronic notes during the build process. Make life easy and keep an electroniclog. One more really nice thing... when it comes time for inspections,the electronic log prints out in an organized and easy to read format. I have a great Uncle that worked in the aerospace industry... he loves keepingup with my log on the web.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Original Posted By: "899PM"
Please, no PMs... "litter" the list... others are interested too.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Please, no PMs... "litter" the list... others are interested too.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I never noticed that "left slant" before....probably a decent attempt at the draftingtable to "unwrap" the compound curve in the fuselage.....and obviouslyapplicable to only one side. Make 'em straight and don't look back!--------PAPA MIKERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
I never noticed that "left slant" before....probably a decent attempt at the draftingtable to "unwrap" the compound curve in the fuselage.....and obviouslyapplicable to only one side. Make 'em straight and don't look back!--------PAPA MIKERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"
Okay Jack,I think I see your point now (or at least more bettererly than before).My interpretation is that the parts are not intended to be out of square.I took a close look at my copy of the plans, with a draftsman's square in hand,and it seems that very few of the corners are actually square. Even the borderaround the sheet is not at 90 degree angles - which could be for a few reasons- one of which is that the printing is a bit skewed, and another is that thedraftsman wasn't a stickler for details. By nature, draftsmen SHOULD be sticklersfor details, since that's the main purpose of their work, but in this case,since the plans were drawn up by an 18-year old amateur, 80 years ago (probablyon a kitchen table) I think we'll be a little less critical. I can thinkof no reason why the corners would NOT be intended to be square. The fuselagesides are parallel in this area, and the brackets are there to attach the liftstruts, which should be parallel to each other, and square to the fuselage (untilthe wing gets shifted, at least). I think your parts look just fine. Once you weld the pieces together, I think yourconcerns will have disappeared. If you make the side fittings out of two pieces,you will be relying solely on your welding to hold the two pieces together.As for your new question, if you look at the bottom view of the landing gear (upperright hand corner of Drawing No.3), you will notice that the shock strutscross each other. In order for this to work, one strut must be in front of theother. Since the axles are aligned, the offset must be at the top end, wherethey meet the fuselage. When this happens, the lug for the left front fittingwill cover up the standard mounting hole - therefore the hole needs to be movedfor that particular fitting. See the attached detail. Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gear ... ______Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:11:06 -0600
Okay Jack,I think I see your point now (or at least more bettererly than before).My interpretation is that the parts are not intended to be out of square.I took a close look at my copy of the plans, with a draftsman's square in hand,and it seems that very few of the corners are actually square. Even the borderaround the sheet is not at 90 degree angles - which could be for a few reasons- one of which is that the printing is a bit skewed, and another is that thedraftsman wasn't a stickler for details. By nature, draftsmen SHOULD be sticklersfor details, since that's the main purpose of their work, but in this case,since the plans were drawn up by an 18-year old amateur, 80 years ago (probablyon a kitchen table) I think we'll be a little less critical. I can thinkof no reason why the corners would NOT be intended to be square. The fuselagesides are parallel in this area, and the brackets are there to attach the liftstruts, which should be parallel to each other, and square to the fuselage (untilthe wing gets shifted, at least). I think your parts look just fine. Once you weld the pieces together, I think yourconcerns will have disappeared. If you make the side fittings out of two pieces,you will be relying solely on your welding to hold the two pieces together.As for your new question, if you look at the bottom view of the landing gear (upperright hand corner of Drawing No.3), you will notice that the shock strutscross each other. In order for this to work, one strut must be in front of theother. Since the axles are aligned, the offset must be at the top end, wherethey meet the fuselage. When this happens, the lug for the left front fittingwill cover up the standard mounting hole - therefore the hole needs to be movedfor that particular fitting. See the attached detail. Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gear ... ______Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 11:11:06 -0600
Pietenpol-List: Re: Additional questions regarding split axle gear fittings
Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leadingedge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown arefor a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far backfrom the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kindof a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 08:16:18 -0600
Jack,just one more tidbit on the gear.In order to have the axle even with the leadingedge of the wing all of these angles are different.The plans shown arefor a no brake setup and if you make them as shown they will be way to far backfrom the leading edge and if you apply brakes you will groundloop on occasion,kindof a bummer.Dave There is a good article in latest BPA newsletter addressing this issue--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2011 08:16:18 -0600
Pietenpol-List: Re: New guy with Model A questions
Original Posted By: "DOMIT"
Not sure why this didn't ring a bell in my head before, but as I read your lastmessage, Jack, I thought to myself "Why is he only bending 20 degrees?". So Ichecked the plans again, and that's what the plans call for.However, if you do the calculations, or do a scale drawing of the wing, fuselage,and struts, you'll find that the lift struts are oriented at 30 degrees, not20. Since the purpose of these brackets is to attach the lift struts, they reallyshould be in line with the struts (so as not to import any bending forceson the brackets, or twisting forces on the fuselage). The strange thing is thatthe lift strut attachment brackets in the wing were originally mis-aligned,but corrected later in the supplementary plans, but this discrepancy was notcaught or corrected.Now, I'm sure that over the years, there have been a LOT of Air campers built withthese brackets bent at 20 degrees, and they have flown without problems forhundreds of hours, BUT it just makes sense that the brackets really should bemade to do the job that they were intended to do. These brackets should be bentat 30 degrees, not 20.Bill C. (an even slower poke)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New guy with Model A questions
Not sure why this didn't ring a bell in my head before, but as I read your lastmessage, Jack, I thought to myself "Why is he only bending 20 degrees?". So Ichecked the plans again, and that's what the plans call for.However, if you do the calculations, or do a scale drawing of the wing, fuselage,and struts, you'll find that the lift struts are oriented at 30 degrees, not20. Since the purpose of these brackets is to attach the lift struts, they reallyshould be in line with the struts (so as not to import any bending forceson the brackets, or twisting forces on the fuselage). The strange thing is thatthe lift strut attachment brackets in the wing were originally mis-aligned,but corrected later in the supplementary plans, but this discrepancy was notcaught or corrected.Now, I'm sure that over the years, there have been a LOT of Air campers built withthese brackets bent at 20 degrees, and they have flown without problems forhundreds of hours, BUT it just makes sense that the brackets really should bemade to do the job that they were intended to do. These brackets should be bentat 30 degrees, not 20.Bill C. (an even slower poke)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New guy with Model A questions
Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
Thanks Brett... interesting article! I'm looking for 60-65 hp, sounds like it can be done.--------First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Thanks Brett... interesting article! I'm looking for 60-65 hp, sounds like it can be done.--------First rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________