Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Accident discussions
Pietenpol-List: Accident discussions
Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: Doug
Steve; not much to discuss, is there? Since this is the Pietenpol forum, let'ssee which of the stall-spin accidents are attributable to the Pietenpol. Reviewthe list yourself... I come up with a grand total of ZERO stall-spins thatare the airplane's fault or due to any characteristic that is peculiar to theAir Camper.85 years of building and flying this simple airplane and people still get distracted,try stupid stuff, try to pick up a low wing or tighten a turn with aileron,and don't control their airspeed. It's just not the airplane's fault.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Steve; not much to discuss, is there? Since this is the Pietenpol forum, let'ssee which of the stall-spin accidents are attributable to the Pietenpol. Reviewthe list yourself... I come up with a grand total of ZERO stall-spins thatare the airplane's fault or due to any characteristic that is peculiar to theAir Camper.85 years of building and flying this simple airplane and people still get distracted,try stupid stuff, try to pick up a low wing or tighten a turn with aileron,and don't control their airspeed. It's just not the airplane's fault.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com
Loss of control seems to be a dominant theme in certificated air craft as well. Always baffled me and continues to baffle the experts as well. I always knew what my airplane felt=2C sounded and smelled like close to a stall. First thing I did with a new airplane was extensively explore flight at minimum controllable airspeed. Certainly wouldn't do it immediately with an airplane I built=2C but would explore it as flight testing progressed. Us bush pilots spend a lot of time in the area of reverse command. Best to know it well. Haven't been on here in a few months. Nice to be back.Doug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow OhioDate: Wed=2C 4 Jun 2014 12:17:07 -0500Subject: Pietenpol-List: Accident discussions
Loss of control seems to be a dominant theme in certificated air craft as well. Always baffled me and continues to baffle the experts as well. I always knew what my airplane felt=2C sounded and smelled like close to a stall. First thing I did with a new airplane was extensively explore flight at minimum controllable airspeed. Certainly wouldn't do it immediately with an airplane I built=2C but would explore it as flight testing progressed. Us bush pilots spend a lot of time in the area of reverse command. Best to know it well. Haven't been on here in a few months. Nice to be back.Doug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow OhioDate: Wed=2C 4 Jun 2014 12:17:07 -0500Subject: Pietenpol-List: Accident discussions
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Doug;Since you mention the region of reversed command, I'll relate part of a discussionthat I once had with another taildragger pilot when discussing what happensafter the mains touch down. He said that he immediately eases stick forwardto reduce wing lift and plant the mains, and I suppose that would be correctas long as there is excess lift remaining. My counterpoint to his statement wasthat if you were coming back on the stick to slow the airplane to plant themains, you'd better keep coming back on it or it's going to bounce since bringingthe stick forward would get the wing flying again and up you go. I toldhim it was operation in the region of reversed command and he said that was completelythe opposite of what I was saying ;o)--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 15:58:12 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Doug;Since you mention the region of reversed command, I'll relate part of a discussionthat I once had with another taildragger pilot when discussing what happensafter the mains touch down. He said that he immediately eases stick forwardto reduce wing lift and plant the mains, and I suppose that would be correctas long as there is excess lift remaining. My counterpoint to his statement wasthat if you were coming back on the stick to slow the airplane to plant themains, you'd better keep coming back on it or it's going to bounce since bringingthe stick forward would get the wing flying again and up you go. I toldhim it was operation in the region of reversed command and he said that was completelythe opposite of what I was saying ;o)--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 15:58:12 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
Steve; please review the accident statistics on file, boil them down, and preparea spreadsheet, graph, bar chart, pie chart, or tabulation of accidents, fatalor otherwise, in which a deficiency in the design of a Pietenpol Air Camperor a Grega GN-1 was the proximate cause of the accident or incident. If youwant, I'll save you some time: pull a clean piece of paper out of your printer,lay it face down on your Xerox and scan it to .jpg... that's the result you'llget.I think what brings this issue up every now and then is when new builders, or dreamers,or planners, or pilots, are wondering if this airplane is less safe,or less forgiving, or structurally weaker, or trickier to fly than others thatthey could build, or dream about, or plan for, or fly.Neither the FAA nor the NTSB will ever be able to take the smile off of Mr. Pietenpol'sface as he rests in peace, and he did us all a favor by sharing his creationwith us.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Steve; please review the accident statistics on file, boil them down, and preparea spreadsheet, graph, bar chart, pie chart, or tabulation of accidents, fatalor otherwise, in which a deficiency in the design of a Pietenpol Air Camperor a Grega GN-1 was the proximate cause of the accident or incident. If youwant, I'll save you some time: pull a clean piece of paper out of your printer,lay it face down on your Xerox and scan it to .jpg... that's the result you'llget.I think what brings this issue up every now and then is when new builders, or dreamers,or planners, or pilots, are wondering if this airplane is less safe,or less forgiving, or structurally weaker, or trickier to fly than others thatthey could build, or dream about, or plan for, or fly.Neither the FAA nor the NTSB will ever be able to take the smile off of Mr. Pietenpol'sface as he rests in peace, and he did us all a favor by sharing his creationwith us.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: Doug
You're right, Oscar. A similar search with other A/C, such as Cub, Champ, and T-craft,would produce the same results.GaryNX308MBSent from my iPhone> On Jun 4, 2014, at 2:58 PM, "taildrags" wrote:> > > Steve; please review the accident statistics on file, boil them down, and preparea spreadsheet, graph, bar chart, pie chart, or tabulation of accidents, fatalor otherwise, in which a deficiency in the design of a Pietenpol Air Camperor a Grega GN-1 was the proximate cause of the accident or incident. If youwant, I'll save you some time: pull a clean piece of paper out of your printer,lay it face down on your Xerox and scan it to .jpg... that's the result you'llget.> > I think what brings this issue up every now and then is when new builders, ordreamers, or planners, or pilots, are wondering if this airplane is less safe,or less forgiving, or structurally weaker, or trickier to fly than others thatthey could build, or dream about, or plan for, or fly.> > Neither the FAA nor the NTSB will ever be able to take the smile off of Mr. Pietenpol'sface as he rests in peace, and he did us all a favor by sharing hiscreation with us.> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 366#424366> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
You're right, Oscar. A similar search with other A/C, such as Cub, Champ, and T-craft,would produce the same results.GaryNX308MBSent from my iPhone> On Jun 4, 2014, at 2:58 PM, "taildrags" wrote:> > > Steve; please review the accident statistics on file, boil them down, and preparea spreadsheet, graph, bar chart, pie chart, or tabulation of accidents, fatalor otherwise, in which a deficiency in the design of a Pietenpol Air Camperor a Grega GN-1 was the proximate cause of the accident or incident. If youwant, I'll save you some time: pull a clean piece of paper out of your printer,lay it face down on your Xerox and scan it to .jpg... that's the result you'llget.> > I think what brings this issue up every now and then is when new builders, ordreamers, or planners, or pilots, are wondering if this airplane is less safe,or less forgiving, or structurally weaker, or trickier to fly than others thatthey could build, or dream about, or plan for, or fly.> > Neither the FAA nor the NTSB will ever be able to take the smile off of Mr. Pietenpol'sface as he rests in peace, and he did us all a favor by sharing hiscreation with us.> > --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 366#424366> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: steven.d.dortch(at)gmail.com
Didn't know they stopped teaching this..Doug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow OhioDate: Wed=2C 4 Jun 2014 15:07:57 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Didn't know they stopped teaching this..Doug Dever=0AIn beautiful Stow OhioDate: Wed=2C 4 Jun 2014 15:07:57 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Just received the latest edition of EAA's Experimenter, and lo and behold, there'san article featuring Randy Bush and his Pietenpol.Congratulations, Randy.You can access the magazine here:http://experimenter.epubxp.com/i/323139Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 22:06:52 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Just received the latest edition of EAA's Experimenter, and lo and behold, there'san article featuring Randy Bush and his Pietenpol.Congratulations, Randy.You can access the magazine here:http://experimenter.epubxp.com/i/323139Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 22:06:52 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Steve, Your response is why I like speaking in person rather then emails. I wasn't beingconfrontational. I was just pointing out that I now remember the accident wherethe wing folded in flight. Sorry about that. The accident you mention involvingthe folks who wouldn't talk to the faa. That accident airplane belongedto a good friend of mine who sold it to another one of my friends. It had neverflown until the accident flight. It had a Corvair Engine on it and it icedup on take off. The engine did not have any carb heat on it.Yes there is a lot to learn from accident reports. Yes we should also build thebest airplane we can and yes we should maintain our flying skills. Come on out to Frazier Lake this weekend so we can talk in person. Things won'tget lost in email translation. Happy Landings,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Steve, Your response is why I like speaking in person rather then emails. I wasn't beingconfrontational. I was just pointing out that I now remember the accident wherethe wing folded in flight. Sorry about that. The accident you mention involvingthe folks who wouldn't talk to the faa. That accident airplane belongedto a good friend of mine who sold it to another one of my friends. It had neverflown until the accident flight. It had a Corvair Engine on it and it icedup on take off. The engine did not have any carb heat on it.Yes there is a lot to learn from accident reports. Yes we should also build thebest airplane we can and yes we should maintain our flying skills. Come on out to Frazier Lake this weekend so we can talk in person. Things won'tget lost in email translation. Happy Landings,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Pietenpol-List: Re: Accident discussions
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Steve,Great story. My point exactly.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GAUSMC, USMCR, ATPBVD DVD PDQ BBQRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Steve,Great story. My point exactly.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GAUSMC, USMCR, ATPBVD DVD PDQ BBQRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________