Original Posted By: Hans van der Voort
Pietenpol-List: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal
Original Posted By: danhelsper(at)aol.com
WF2;At first glance, I would guess that the "bolts are stronger than wood" makes sense,but eyeballing it, even with an educated eye, does not prove correct here.I have photos of a number of Crashed Piets, going back to one a Brodhead in 1990,where all the planes had sevearly compromised diagonal cabanes, but none ofthem had ripped the bracket off the top longeron. This includes my own plane,which burn to a cinder following the crash which folded the diagonal cabanesright in the middle, but I still have the top longeron brackets and the wood leftbetween them is charred, but intact. I also have photos that a bystander tookwhile the plane was 1/2 burnt that show the top longeron is still intact afterthe impact.I have read almost all of the comments you have made here. and they are well thoughtout, but on this issue, I would like to politely point out that your perspectiveis not correct in light of physical evidence, and I would not want anyoneconsidering improving their diagonal cabanes not to do so because they readyou comment. Most things people have a different opionon on in piet constructionare really expressions of preference, but my 3 points, Diagonal cabanes,fuel lines and CG are important enough that I will explain them at length. The two stories are here:http://flycorvair.net/2013/12/19/pieten ... t-2/Please look at the photos, and consider copying the red strut attachment style.It is on Dave Mensik's Piet, and it eliminates the weal point ay the ends ofthe struts. Any system that ends with a fork, plate or a flattened tube can bestrengthened by having the tube stay full cross section like on Dave's. If someone is understood to be a fool, and they tell people that my 3 points don'tmatter, I don't care, as few people will follow them, and in some ways itillustrates the issue better. Conversely, when people who are well thought of,trend setters, educated or experienced builders say things that conflict withthe risk management message I want to share, I am compelled to respond becauseI don't want the practical issue lost in theoretical debate. At first glance,this gives the illusion that I am arguing with some of the most respected people,when I am not, and hopefully the people I respond to will understand thatit is validation that their perspectives are well read and usually correct.-------------------------------------------------------In 4 days, I will be at the 13th anniversary of my accident. The time allows abetter understanding of the actual cost; the plane and burns don't add up to ameaningful loss when considered against 1) My wife, who has always been a betterpilot than I, lost much of her pure joy for planes while sitting in the ICUwith me for a month when I looked like a burger left on the grill, 2) The eventmade my parents age, their support over a long year stole some of their remainingoptimism. 3) the PIC who was lightly injured, who I went back to extractfrom the wreckage, has terrible ptsd over what it cost me to save him. Youcan build a new plane, you can forget the physical pain, these just take time,but I have found , no matter how hard I have tried,I am completely powerlessto fix 1-2- and 3. Think that over.The sole good thing that came about was that my father, who's office was on the 89th floor of the World Trade Center #2, took the day off on 9/11 to be with me in the hospital. In 24 years there he had missed very few days in the building. I wrote some notes about it with a photo, they are at the bottom of this link: http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar0911.html -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonalstruts
WF2;At first glance, I would guess that the "bolts are stronger than wood" makes sense,but eyeballing it, even with an educated eye, does not prove correct here.I have photos of a number of Crashed Piets, going back to one a Brodhead in 1990,where all the planes had sevearly compromised diagonal cabanes, but none ofthem had ripped the bracket off the top longeron. This includes my own plane,which burn to a cinder following the crash which folded the diagonal cabanesright in the middle, but I still have the top longeron brackets and the wood leftbetween them is charred, but intact. I also have photos that a bystander tookwhile the plane was 1/2 burnt that show the top longeron is still intact afterthe impact.I have read almost all of the comments you have made here. and they are well thoughtout, but on this issue, I would like to politely point out that your perspectiveis not correct in light of physical evidence, and I would not want anyoneconsidering improving their diagonal cabanes not to do so because they readyou comment. Most things people have a different opionon on in piet constructionare really expressions of preference, but my 3 points, Diagonal cabanes,fuel lines and CG are important enough that I will explain them at length. The two stories are here:http://flycorvair.net/2013/12/19/pieten ... t-2/Please look at the photos, and consider copying the red strut attachment style.It is on Dave Mensik's Piet, and it eliminates the weal point ay the ends ofthe struts. Any system that ends with a fork, plate or a flattened tube can bestrengthened by having the tube stay full cross section like on Dave's. If someone is understood to be a fool, and they tell people that my 3 points don'tmatter, I don't care, as few people will follow them, and in some ways itillustrates the issue better. Conversely, when people who are well thought of,trend setters, educated or experienced builders say things that conflict withthe risk management message I want to share, I am compelled to respond becauseI don't want the practical issue lost in theoretical debate. At first glance,this gives the illusion that I am arguing with some of the most respected people,when I am not, and hopefully the people I respond to will understand thatit is validation that their perspectives are well read and usually correct.-------------------------------------------------------In 4 days, I will be at the 13th anniversary of my accident. The time allows abetter understanding of the actual cost; the plane and burns don't add up to ameaningful loss when considered against 1) My wife, who has always been a betterpilot than I, lost much of her pure joy for planes while sitting in the ICUwith me for a month when I looked like a burger left on the grill, 2) The eventmade my parents age, their support over a long year stole some of their remainingoptimism. 3) the PIC who was lightly injured, who I went back to extractfrom the wreckage, has terrible ptsd over what it cost me to save him. Youcan build a new plane, you can forget the physical pain, these just take time,but I have found , no matter how hard I have tried,I am completely powerlessto fix 1-2- and 3. Think that over.The sole good thing that came about was that my father, who's office was on the 89th floor of the World Trade Center #2, took the day off on 9/11 to be with me in the hospital. In 24 years there he had missed very few days in the building. I wrote some notes about it with a photo, they are at the bottom of this link: http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar0911.html -ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonalstruts
Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagona
Original Posted By: Keith
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
In response to your comment about the firewall being so structurally important: my firewall is 1/4" plywood with a stainless steel face plate. I now have it bolted to the two upright members that join the top longerons vertically. I use four AN-3 bolts through the firewall and the front vertical members, threading into a plate nut. Would this be adequate for strength, or should the firewall be glued to the vertical members? Which is best, adequate, or just OK?By the way, I am not too worried about weight because this is a SkyScout, single place with an A-65; therefore the 1/4" firewall.Jim Boyer and his friend Jim were just here for a great lunch, visit and viewing of my build progress. All visitors are welcome. Plane to start covering this fall.Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 10, 2014, at 11:43 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:> ty.org>> > I'm with WW on this one. If you take a good look at how the Cont and Corvair engine mounts are constructed and the fact that they bolt directly to the diagonal cabane strut mounts, it ties everything together with a lot of triangular structures. I don't think the upper longerons are carrying the loads you think they are. The firewall is providing a large gusset, this will help prevent diamonding the structure too. There are a lot of triangular structures involved there if you step back and look at it. Triangles are very strong. > > I don't have any degrees in engineering, but I do design engineering at work on a daily basis. > > My 3 cents,> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 448#426448> > > > > > > ============================================================================================================================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
In response to your comment about the firewall being so structurally important: my firewall is 1/4" plywood with a stainless steel face plate. I now have it bolted to the two upright members that join the top longerons vertically. I use four AN-3 bolts through the firewall and the front vertical members, threading into a plate nut. Would this be adequate for strength, or should the firewall be glued to the vertical members? Which is best, adequate, or just OK?By the way, I am not too worried about weight because this is a SkyScout, single place with an A-65; therefore the 1/4" firewall.Jim Boyer and his friend Jim were just here for a great lunch, visit and viewing of my build progress. All visitors are welcome. Plane to start covering this fall.Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 10, 2014, at 11:43 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:> ty.org>> > I'm with WW on this one. If you take a good look at how the Cont and Corvair engine mounts are constructed and the fact that they bolt directly to the diagonal cabane strut mounts, it ties everything together with a lot of triangular structures. I don't think the upper longerons are carrying the loads you think they are. The firewall is providing a large gusset, this will help prevent diamonding the structure too. There are a lot of triangular structures involved there if you step back and look at it. Triangles are very strong. > > I don't have any degrees in engineering, but I do design engineering at work on a daily basis. > > My 3 cents,> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 448#426448> > > > > > > ============================================================================================================================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Ray,My galvanized firewall started out not being anchored to anything...then theprocess of adding engine support stuff started! Eventually, I added pan headscrews around the perimeter since that's where the cowling is anchored tothe firewall. I think you're OK...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Ray,My galvanized firewall started out not being anchored to anything...then theprocess of adding engine support stuff started! Eventually, I added pan headscrews around the perimeter since that's where the cowling is anchored tothe firewall. I think you're OK...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thanks, Gary. Nice to hear your support. I really don't want to add any more boltsfor fear of weakening the verticals between the top and bottom longerons.Just sent a picture of the firewall, you can see the four bolts in the picture.Sure enjoyed having Jim here today.RaySent from my iPad> On Jul 10, 2014, at 4:32 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:> > > Ray,> > My galvanized firewall started out not being anchored to anything...then the> process of adding engine support stuff started! Eventually, I added pan head> screws around the perimeter since that's where the cowling is anchored to> the firewall. I think you're OK...> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > > -----Original Message-----
Thanks, Gary. Nice to hear your support. I really don't want to add any more boltsfor fear of weakening the verticals between the top and bottom longerons.Just sent a picture of the firewall, you can see the four bolts in the picture.Sure enjoyed having Jim here today.RaySent from my iPad> On Jul 10, 2014, at 4:32 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:> > > Ray,> > My galvanized firewall started out not being anchored to anything...then the> process of adding engine support stuff started! Eventually, I added pan head> screws around the perimeter since that's where the cowling is anchored to> the firewall. I think you're OK...> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > > -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
That's great news!Katrina and I will be getting in Thursday afternoonand will be there 'till Sunday Looking forward to seeing everybody!--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
That's great news!Katrina and I will be getting in Thursday afternoonand will be there 'till Sunday Looking forward to seeing everybody!--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Pietenpol-List: RE: Brodhead 2014
Original Posted By: woodflier
That is in a perfect impact with the wing moving forward and a compression loadon the fuselage brace I assume?What happens when a twisting force is applied like a wing tip hitting first? Thefuselage bracket will shear sideways and the wing plane will twist down in ahelical vector.All I was saying is that you cannot reinforce one area thinking that is will mitigatedall the forces. You need to look at the total system.I know from first hand experience when our Piet flipped over on her back, hardduring a landing. We had heavy wall square diagonal braces with air-foiled shapedspruce epoxied over it and it was rigidly bolt at both ends. I know what damagewas done, the ash motor support split, the firewall split down the middle,the shelf aft of the motor split, and the top of the diagonal bracket supportwhere forced outward when the wing moved forward and took the weight of theplane plus the impact forces. Quite a lot of damage.So you need to do more the just strengthen up the diagonal brace. That was my point.BTW, no damage was done to the diagonal support braces, they were still in-tacked,just the support brackets they bolted to bent.I am all about being safe and sharing my opinions too.Cheers,WF2--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Brodhead 2014
That is in a perfect impact with the wing moving forward and a compression loadon the fuselage brace I assume?What happens when a twisting force is applied like a wing tip hitting first? Thefuselage bracket will shear sideways and the wing plane will twist down in ahelical vector.All I was saying is that you cannot reinforce one area thinking that is will mitigatedall the forces. You need to look at the total system.I know from first hand experience when our Piet flipped over on her back, hardduring a landing. We had heavy wall square diagonal braces with air-foiled shapedspruce epoxied over it and it was rigidly bolt at both ends. I know what damagewas done, the ash motor support split, the firewall split down the middle,the shelf aft of the motor split, and the top of the diagonal bracket supportwhere forced outward when the wing moved forward and took the weight of theplane plus the impact forces. Quite a lot of damage.So you need to do more the just strengthen up the diagonal brace. That was my point.BTW, no damage was done to the diagonal support braces, they were still in-tacked,just the support brackets they bolted to bent.I am all about being safe and sharing my opinions too.Cheers,WF2--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Brodhead 2014
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Looks like I won't be making Brodhead this year. Long story short, my partners and I have been trying to sell another airplane for several years, We have a buyer but a lot of engine problems have turned up on the pre-buy and I'll probably be knee deep in engine or hopefully delivering the airplane. There's an outside posibllity of flying the Bellanca to the buyer in Kansas the week of Brodhead and driving in but all the stars, and the cylinder shop will have to align. Matt PaxtonNX629ML________________________________________________________________________________
Looks like I won't be making Brodhead this year. Long story short, my partners and I have been trying to sell another airplane for several years, We have a buyer but a lot of engine problems have turned up on the pre-buy and I'll probably be knee deep in engine or hopefully delivering the airplane. There's an outside posibllity of flying the Bellanca to the buyer in Kansas the week of Brodhead and driving in but all the stars, and the cylinder shop will have to align. Matt PaxtonNX629ML________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Hello all,My FAR less drastic experience with a sudden deceleration and nose-overdemonstrated the need for stronger diagonals than I had at the time. Whilethe plane was maybe going 25mpg on the ground, the wing still displacedabout two inches forward upon deceleration. My hard fuel lines actuallyheld (with ace hardware compression fittings, thank you very much) exceptfor a little leak. Nothing was damaged on the engine mount whatsoever, yeta bit more displacement and my fuel lines would have been torn and fuelwould be spilling out.I now have very strong diagonals and the top portion of each line going tothe tank is flexible.I am sure there is a point at which the engine mount will "tear out" of thelongeron, but I'll bet that there are many incidents short of that occurancewhich would dangerously displace the wing if the diagonals are too puny.AND. what do we possibly lose by beefing them up??? A few ounces??? This isNOT the place to be saving weight!!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Hello all,My FAR less drastic experience with a sudden deceleration and nose-overdemonstrated the need for stronger diagonals than I had at the time. Whilethe plane was maybe going 25mpg on the ground, the wing still displacedabout two inches forward upon deceleration. My hard fuel lines actuallyheld (with ace hardware compression fittings, thank you very much) exceptfor a little leak. Nothing was damaged on the engine mount whatsoever, yeta bit more displacement and my fuel lines would have been torn and fuelwould be spilling out.I now have very strong diagonals and the top portion of each line going tothe tank is flexible.I am sure there is a point at which the engine mount will "tear out" of thelongeron, but I'll bet that there are many incidents short of that occurancewhich would dangerously displace the wing if the diagonals are too puny.AND. what do we possibly lose by beefing them up??? A few ounces??? This isNOT the place to be saving weight!!Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Original Posted By: "PatrickW"
Ray,It sounds to me like Gary gave you great direction. The 1/4 inch firewall willbe strong. Please keep moving forward. I can't wait to see it next June. :)WF2,Thanks for your input too. This is a great sounding board and everyone's thoughtsand comments very much appreciated. Because of this website, we have a lotof great, safe and beautiful Piets being built by some very talented folks.We have a lot of very smart people on this board. Including you. Keep on building,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Ray,It sounds to me like Gary gave you great direction. The 1/4 inch firewall willbe strong. Please keep moving forward. I can't wait to see it next June. :)WF2,Thanks for your input too. This is a great sounding board and everyone's thoughtsand comments very much appreciated. Because of this website, we have a lotof great, safe and beautiful Piets being built by some very talented folks.We have a lot of very smart people on this board. Including you. Keep on building,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Original Posted By: "john francis"
I plan on flying down on Thursday, weather permitting.Patrick HoytN63PZ - CH601/CorvairRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
I plan on flying down on Thursday, weather permitting.Patrick HoytN63PZ - CH601/CorvairRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
I plan to arrive sometime Thursday afternoon with my travel trailer. Will stayuntil Sunday morning.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
I plan to arrive sometime Thursday afternoon with my travel trailer. Will stayuntil Sunday morning.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
Sadly, I am not able to make it this year due to some ongoing health issues thatI'm trying to get resolved. There is a bit of good news in this, the moneyI had set aside for the trip to Brodhead will be used to buy some spruce so thatI can resume building my Piet after a 3+ year interruption due to moving twice.Hopefully I will make the journey next year!--------Billy McCaskillBaker, LAtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Sadly, I am not able to make it this year due to some ongoing health issues thatI'm trying to get resolved. There is a bit of good news in this, the moneyI had set aside for the trip to Brodhead will be used to buy some spruce so thatI can resume building my Piet after a 3+ year interruption due to moving twice.Hopefully I will make the journey next year!--------Billy McCaskillBaker, LAtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brodhead 2014
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
Billy,Stay home. Be well. Build airplanes.GarySent from my iPhone> On Jul 11, 2014, at 3:40 PM, "Billy McCaskill" wrote:> > > Sadly, I am not able to make it this year due to some ongoing health issues thatI'm trying to get resolved. There is a bit of good news in this, the moneyI had set aside for the trip to Brodhead will be used to buy some spruce sothat I can resume building my Piet after a 3+ year interruption due to movingtwice. > > Hopefully I will make the journey next year!> > --------> Billy McCaskill> Baker, LA> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 510#426510> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Billy,Stay home. Be well. Build airplanes.GarySent from my iPhone> On Jul 11, 2014, at 3:40 PM, "Billy McCaskill" wrote:> > > Sadly, I am not able to make it this year due to some ongoing health issues thatI'm trying to get resolved. There is a bit of good news in this, the moneyI had set aside for the trip to Brodhead will be used to buy some spruce sothat I can resume building my Piet after a 3+ year interruption due to movingtwice. > > Hopefully I will make the journey next year!> > --------> Billy McCaskill> Baker, LA> tail section almost done, starting on ribs soon> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 510#426510> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Airventure Latex Paint Forums
Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
I have an offer to coach the Swedish Bikini Volleyball team this summer so I'll be missing Brodhead as well.Carry on good people!Mike C.Ohio________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airventure Latex Paint Forums
I have an offer to coach the Swedish Bikini Volleyball team this summer so I'll be missing Brodhead as well.Carry on good people!Mike C.Ohio________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Airventure Latex Paint Forums
Original Posted By: Ray Krause
I do hope your forum is on a Webinar or on YouTube. I so enjoy the last one andlooking forward to your next with even more great information on using latexhouse paints.Thanks for doing this education topic.WF2--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I do hope your forum is on a Webinar or on YouTube. I so enjoy the last one andlooking forward to your next with even more great information on using latexhouse paints.Thanks for doing this education topic.WF2--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Thanks, Scott. I have hopes of getting covered this fall. Who knows, I could beto the fly in next year!I do not know WF2, Women Who Fly; or do I? Sure appreciate your comments, you havea lot of good advise.Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 11, 2014, at 7:38 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:> > > Ray,> > It sounds to me like Gary gave you great direction. The 1/4 inch firewall willbe strong. Please keep moving forward. I can't wait to see it next June.
> > WF2,> > Thanks for your input too. This is a great sounding board and everyone's thoughtsand comments very much appreciated. Because of this website, we have alot of great, safe and beautiful Piets being built by some very talented folks.We have a lot of very smart people on this board. Including you.> > Keep on building,> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 496#426496> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Thanks, Scott. I have hopes of getting covered this fall. Who knows, I could beto the fly in next year!I do not know WF2, Women Who Fly; or do I? Sure appreciate your comments, you havea lot of good advise.Thanks,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Jul 11, 2014, at 7:38 AM, "AircamperN11MS" wrote:> > > Ray,> > It sounds to me like Gary gave you great direction. The 1/4 inch firewall willbe strong. Please keep moving forward. I can't wait to see it next June.
> > WF2,> > Thanks for your input too. This is a great sounding board and everyone's thoughtsand comments very much appreciated. Because of this website, we have alot of great, safe and beautiful Piets being built by some very talented folks.We have a lot of very smart people on this board. Including you.> > Keep on building,> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 496#426496> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal strutsPietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Ray WF2 has left some thoughts to consider too. I have not met WF2 either but I surelove looking at their Piet pics. It's just got a good look. I hope to see itsomeday. Thanks for the nice words,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Ray WF2 has left some thoughts to consider too. I have not met WF2 either but I surelove looking at their Piet pics. It's just got a good look. I hope to see itsomeday. Thanks for the nice words,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts